#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2014-01-31

nicksydneyAtmel released a new toolchain based on GCC 4.8.1 http://distribute.atmel.no/tools/opensource/Atmel-AVR-GNU-Toolchain/3.4.3/ 01:12
nicksydneywpwrak: what you think of SAM5 from Atmel ?01:14
rohhrhr01:18
rohhttp://forum.jtl-software.de/shopbetrieb-pflege-jtl-shop3/43854-vorsicht-betrueger-unterwegs.html01:18
rohthere seems to be an exploitable dhl-fail sending stuff to brazil01:18
whitequarkcool, the CNC machine vendor agreed to pay for repairs. "send us an invoice"04:56
nicksydneywhitequark: congrats !04:57
wpwrak... from whitequark industries :)06:55
whitequarksomething like that, I guess06:57
wpwrakroh: tell heise !06:57
larschaha "In Brasilien gibt es so weit ich weiß nicht sooo viele Möglichkeiten der IP Verschleierung"08:04
Action: whitequark is watching one of his packages to bounce around08:21
whitequarkday 35th. the package was sent to St. Petersburg and then immediately back to Moscow08:21
wpwraklarsc: yeah, those jungle drums each have very characteristic sounds08:24
wpwrakon the 35th of january, the time rift widened ...08:25
whitequarkhehe08:28
whitequarkha, it actually was delivered properly yesterday, right in line with the ebay estimate08:29
whitequark... nevermind it could have been delivered 25 days earlier. did they deliberately bounce it around?08:30
whitequarkI'm inclined to think "yes"08:30
wpwrakit all makes sense now. it arrived yesterday, that's why you're tracking its progress today, to see that on the 35th it will bounce between st. petersburg and moscow.08:32
nicksydneyWhen 24Hz Sound Waves Collide With Waterÿ -- https://plus.google.com/photos/+RalphRoberts/albums/5974455410758770849/5974455411906736098?pid=5974455411906736098&oid=10920168184603007679210:16
nicksydneyso sound slows down flow of water ?!10:16
larscpressure slows down the flow of water10:17
nicksydneylarsc: pressure from the sound ?10:18
larscin general ;)10:21
larscand sound is compressed air10:21
whitequark24hz? from that tiny speaker?10:30
whitequarkI wonder how much power does he pump there10:30
Action: nicksydney always wonder what Hz and KHz means :) ... google it later :)10:56
nicksydneynow it's time to print the design into the yellow transfer paper 10:56
nicksydneybtw if anybody is interested to download the ARM server specification paper you can download it here http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/01/31/arm-unveils-system-base-architecture-specification-to-standardize-arm-based-servers/10:57
nicksydneywhitequark: so basically you can't use your new CNC toy now ?10:58
apeletewpwrak DocScrutinizer05: just got the Xytronic LF-389D, looks much more high quality than my previous cheap iron11:09
apeletethe shop also sent me 3Kg of iron "brackets for power supply", don't know what I'm supposed to do with that11:11
apeletewas worried at first that the soldering station might be larger than I thought since I got 2 huge packages, one filled with 3Kg of (useless ?) iron11:13
apeletewpwrak: but it's quite small actually, already glad I followed you advice :)11:14
apeletewpwrak DocScrutinizer05: just got the Stannol solder and flux pen right now, w00t11:19
whitequarknicksydney: not quite11:21
whitequarkmy adjustable power supply can serve it 3A@24V11:21
apeletethis is perfect timing, now I can run and try to catch my train to FOSDEM11:21
whitequarkbut what it really needs is 2A@24V+4A@48V11:21
whitequarkso I can kinda run it at really low speed11:21
whitequarkand apparently it's very hard to source power supplies on >12V >1A locally, so I'm waiting for ebay11:22
nicksydneyebay or aliexpress is your friend :)11:27
wpwrakapelete: great ! not sure what the iron brackets are supposed to do :) got a picture ?11:42
DocScrutinizer05is the powersupply equipped with a holder for the iron?11:46
DocScrutinizer05and maybe too light to stand without the brackets, when you insert the soldering iron to the holder?11:47
wpwrakmaybe some wall-mounting stuff or such. but 3 kg sounds weird.11:49
wpwrakwe'll see when we get the pictures :)11:49
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: http://www.fairphone.com/2013/12/20/production-photo-blog/11:50
DocScrutinizer05hmm, seen such stuff11:51
DocScrutinizer05but not done for Neo90011:51
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: http://www.fairphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Test-Call.jpg -- "Using fancy test equipment to calibrate the radios." ... what it means ?11:52
DocScrutinizer05I llearned fairphone actually is an android phone, with a proprietary HAL/modem-firmware as usual11:52
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: yes it is Android and with BLOB :)11:52
DocScrutinizer05proprietary HAL/modem-firmware == BLOB, yes11:53
DocScrutinizer05and shared RAM I suspect, also as usual11:53
nicksydneyBitcoin back: Major exchange resumes yuan trading -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/101379801 ... Bitcoin in HOT! again now....you can use Bitcoin to trade stock in China ..woooo11:58
DocScrutinizer05well, it's kinda nice, too little too late, too expensive (though yes *I* know, of all critics I know best why it's going to be expensive), it's too androidy11:58
nicksydneywpwrak: Will Argentinas woes hit this country? http://www.cnbc.com/id/10137912811:58
wpwrakyeah, too late. they'll never know what hit them when neo900 enters the scene :)11:59
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: when neo900 launch we need to throw party in each country !11:59
wpwrakanyone remembers Coherent Unix ? they offered a commercial Unix clone for 286 in the early 1990s. a very short while later, Linux came out ... *foof*12:01
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: (fairphone) like if that's surprising12:02
Action: whitequark browses chipdip.ru's catalogue. it's sad.12:08
whitequarkchipdip is more or less russian sparkfun: 2x more expensive, but supposedly only has carefully picked good stuff12:09
wpwraklike quality arduinos ?12:09
whitequarkwell, it's much more extensive, but yeah, you're not far off12:10
whitequarkso I'm looking at fluxes section. about 100 positions.12:10
whitequarkmost of them seem to come via some bizarre form of time travel right from 1970's12:10
whitequarkwhat the hell is "soldering fat"?!12:10
whitequarkhttp://lib.chipdip.ru/224/DOC000224673.jpg12:11
whitequark$10 for 0.5kg of some weird gunk. "recommended for quality soldering of radioelectronics"12:11
whitequarkmost of the rest is variations of RA and RMA, made to USSR standards, dating back to the ages where the biggest IC you could get would be a TTL quad NAND12:15
wpwrak(soldering fat) yeah, remember that stuff :) even 1980s ;-)12:15
whitequarkboric acid?! flux for bismuth-based solders?!!12:15
whitequarkwas that before dinosaurs or actually after?12:16
wpwrakthey probably kept a few in the permafrost until they had the industry to turn them into soldering fat12:16
whitequarkhehe12:16
whitequarkyou are not far off, I'm sure some of that stuff is selling off huge stockpiles dating back to 90s and maybe 80s12:18
whitequarkand they could maybe still last decades12:18
whitequarkI know for sure ICs made in 1991 are still actively being sold12:19
wpwrakthey undoubtedly will. well, at least unless a storm destroys that unmaintained storage facility 12:20
whitequarkyou are again spot on, the storage conditions for them are truly horrendous12:20
whitequarknot uncommon to just lie in a puddle for years12:20
wpwraki suppose "soldering fat" is not very picky ;-)12:21
whitequarkso if you want to have a yield of more than several % you need to bake them...12:21
whitequarkwell, ICs are more picky12:21
wpwrakah, chips. yeah, them too12:21
whitequarkit's a weird feeling, soldering an IC which you know is older than you12:21
wpwrakand it'll either die that very day ... or outlast you12:23
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: coherent? suuure :-P12:32
DocScrutinizer05and I think they asked "only" a bit over 1000DM for that12:33
DocScrutinizer05err, maybe I confuse this with the BSD tapes in mid 80s?12:35
DocScrutinizer05anyway I still recall SuSE in Fuerth/By and I got their first Release, some 22 5¼" floppies12:37
DocScrutinizer05>> The first version appeared in early 1994 << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuSE12:38
wpwrakyeah, suse was fairly late12:40
wpwrakbefore came linus' root and boot floppy, mcc, sls, ...12:40
wpwrakthere was also a german distro, DLD or such12:41
DocScrutinizer05sls, slackware, yes12:45
DocScrutinizer05haha. soldering fat. Recommended for copper tubs12:49
DocScrutinizer05or to etch away some unwanted traces on your PCB12:51
DocScrutinizer05the "radio electronics" they recmmend it for... is about 3mm diameter wires, huge trafos, and electron tubes12:52
DocScrutinizer05the sort of "radio" that fries your nuts with x-ray when you sit in that operator chair12:53
DocScrutinizer05aka military Russian mobile radar 12:54
DocScrutinizer05dang, looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuSE#SUSE_distributions I really wonder what I managed to get from them, must've been the slackware port, since I'm rather sure the kernel been 0.98 or sth13:03
nicksydneyfound a good into video between capacitive and resistive and how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxYHzVfclc13:25
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: exactly13:57
whitequarkI've just went to that shop13:57
whitequarkthe prices are literally jaw-dropping. I've bought my adjustable psu for $50... they sell it for $18013:58
whitequarkpractically that exact one13:58
wpwrakthe difference is of course the one sells you a cheap USD 50 toy while the other one sells you a nice USD 180 professional instrument ;-)14:18
whitequarkwell, they'll actually repair it on warranty and replace without questions, yes14:33
whitequarkbut it doesn't warrant a 4x markup14:33
wpwrakunless if fails rather often :)14:39
whitequarkeven NE555! digikey sells them for 0.34@1, them for 1.2@114:42
rohwell.. somebody needs to pay rent.14:47
rohparts are always massively uppriced at stores.14:47
rohask for a few thousand.. then you'll get different prices14:47
larsca higher price only shows better quality14:49
whitequarka few thousands... they were caught scraping farnell's catalog14:51
whitequarkso they forward it to farnell with 2x markup14:52
larscinteresting: "Stallman's position, in short, is that Emacs and other official GNU applications should not incorporate default features designed to work with non-GNU projects (like LLVM)..."16:39
wpwrakhmm, so at 60 lucidity begins to wane16:43
larsc"RMS only interacts with the GCC steering committee, and that way the gcc developers can develop code in peace without being constantly drawn in to free software purity discussions." :)16:49
lekerneldidn't rms make sure personally that emacs runs on windows?16:52
wpwraklekernel: i like your evil side ;-)16:53
larschere is the primary source: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/16882616:55
larschttp://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/16889616:56
DocScrutinizer05LIE!!! RMS interacted with *me* as well!17:11
DocScrutinizer05;-P17:12
DocScrutinizer05 /o\17:12
larscwell you are now GNUified17:13
larscno escape17:13
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: look in the mirror. do you see "GCC STEERING COMMITTEE" written in invisible demon blood on your forehead ?17:14
DocScrutinizer05yeah, clearly17:14
DocScrutinizer05honestly RMs seems just as misguided in his ideas about owning and ruling the complete content of gnu-* like Nokia (and Hildon Foundation) is obviously misguided about the status maemo17:16
DocScrutinizer05RMS*17:16
DocScrutinizer05wtf "M"?17:16
DocScrutinizer05"mean"?17:17
larscMatthew or somehting17:17
DocScrutinizer05root mean square17:17
larsclike LPC ;)17:17
larscalthough stricly speaking it is only LC17:19
DocScrutinizer05nfc17:19
DocScrutinizer05lennart poettering crap?17:20
wpwrakone systemd to rule them all. now also in Debian.17:40
larscfinally17:40
wpwrakwell, i'm being prophetic. i think they'll still haggle over it some more but the outcome seems inevitable17:47
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/pogo.fpd: add Mill-Max 09xx series TH pogo pins (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/384ad5e17:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/HIERARCHY: give switches their own top-level category (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/feb850817:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/HIERARCHY: move FIDUCIAL from "Mechanical" to "Structure" (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/63e8c0d17:50
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/spacer.fpd: add 7.5 mm clearance (bare screw/nut) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/a89a1d517:50
whitequarkdebian decided? :(18:51
whitequarkah, no18:51
whitequarkI still hope they choose upstart, it's much nicer18:51
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I love upstart since I seen systemd18:59
DocScrutinizer05before I hated it so much that I refused to rouch buntkuh just for that crap19:00
DocScrutinizer05touch*19:00
whitequarkI liked initng the most, but it's dead since like 200619:02
whitequarkthere's obviously a need for a more advanced init daemon though19:02
wpwrak /bin/init.sh - all the flexibility one could possibly want ;-)19:08
larscwithout the sh19:09
wpwrakit's a symlink :)19:09
whitequarkwpwrak: brainfuck: infinite flexibility, zero usability19:15
whitequarkyou should be writing it19:15
whitequarkit's simple--so unix-way!19:15
whitequarketc etc. what I mean is there is both subjective (cool beans) and objective (full-disk encryption) to have a faster-booting desktop, plus the whole runlevel system never suited desktop well *at all*19:16
whitequarks,to,reasons to,19:16
DocScrutinizer053k :-o19:21
DocScrutinizer05I wonder how we shall handle those plain donations (if that's actually been one) like the "additional" 1500 of those 3k19:22
DocScrutinizer05one donation, once device. One donation >=1500: one proto plus one series. 19:23
DocScrutinizer05s/once/one19:23
wpwraknot all >= 1500 may want a prototype. before you order them to be made, you may want to check that.19:32
DocScrutinizer05sure19:34
DocScrutinizer05and not all >>1500 may want TWO protos and TWO series19:35
DocScrutinizer05A.W.P Is not maybe Almestberger, Werner P. ?19:35
DocScrutinizer05(I have no access to the webshop data)19:36
DocScrutinizer05aynway, afk for an Argentinian meal19:37
DocScrutinizer05o/19:37
wpwraknaw, i'm W.A. only one entry. that's all i can afford :)19:38
wpwrakGMO soy beans ? yummy ;-)19:39
DocScrutinizer05eh, GMO?20:57
Action: DocScrutinizer05 knows what's GMO TLA20:57
DocScrutinizer05but why?20:58
DocScrutinizer05aregntinian food? nah! argentinian entrecote, though much too little20:58
wpwrakit's used heavily in soy argentina agriculture now20:58
wpwrakah, better ;-)20:59
DocScrutinizer05Argentina is on top with beef/person*year20:59
DocScrutinizer05fifty-a-few kg20:59
DocScrutinizer05~1kg/week21:00
DocScrutinizer05I think I could live from/with that ;-)21:00
DocScrutinizer05http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindfleisch#Konsum21:01
DocScrutinizer05>>Die Rindfleischklassifizierung berücksichtigt die Muskelfülle, den Fettanteil und die Kategorie (Kalb, Bulle, Färse); nicht jedoch die Herkunft oder die Rasse.<< MEH!21:03
DocScrutinizer05it's incredible but the best place to eat good beef in Germany is Nuernberk Karstadt Steakpoint21:04
DocScrutinizer05ambiente has the appeal of a highway parking lot21:05
DocScrutinizer05but the meat is awesome21:05
DocScrutinizer05nuernberg, OMG21:05
DocScrutinizer05now this proves that the human brain just reduces performance when not powered properly21:06
wpwrakit's the relaxing effect of a good meal ;-)22:01
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