#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2014-01-29

wpwrakspi seems likely. or maybe uart. or you could use i2c. or roll your own ;-)00:02
nicksydneywpwrak: so that means any connection between the pins can be used (if you are rolling your own) like bit banging ?01:42
nicksydneyTurkey raised overnight repo rate....let's see who next will follow suit01:43
wpwrakyou can bit bang any protocol :)01:56
nicksydneywpwrak: you can't bit bang human protocol :)02:42
nicksydneywpwrak: read about the crazy things here http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/01/it-was-a-shock-when-16-chinese-bid-wildly-for-the-flat/02:45
whitequarksigh... the vendor asked me to send them back the entire device03:09
whitequarkI'll try to convince them to pay for repairs03:13
wpwrakwarranty is messy with long-distance shipping03:26
wpwraki usually don't even bother trying. little good can come out of it, especially if you have a hostile border in the way03:26
whitequarkyep, I'm not going to actually return it03:40
whitequarkit is simply more economical for me to repair it03:40
whitequarkif they refund it, they get their positive feedback. if not? well, if I escalate the case, ebay will likely also tell me to ship it back03:41
whitequarkso, nah.03:41
whitequarkmore interesting stuff I found on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/20094997371803:46
whitequark(again, worldwide shipping included in price, keep that in mind)03:46
whitequarkthere's also the same class of CNC machines upgraded to 4-axis, but... there is no FOSS CAM software which can generate toolpaths for 4axis03:48
whitequarkactually I don't think there is a whole lot of commercial CAM software which can do that03:48
whitequarkso it's kind of useless03:48
whitequarknot to mention the ridiculous reduction in X/Z range and weak C-axis motor03:52
nicksydneywhitequark: with $1000 you can setup your whole lab :) unless if something breaks :)04:04
nicksydneywhile looking for calibrating touchscreen in android found GTA04 fix http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-kernel/issues/470/ :)04:04
whitequarknicksydney: yeah, the catch is that you have to account for your time and expertise in the "real" price :)04:07
nicksydneywhitequark: that's what "China" is all about :)... they know best -- pushing boxes :)04:08
wpwraklovely prices :)04:08
nicksydneyhas anybody used tslib before for calibrating touch screen ?04:08
nicksydneywhitequark: i learnt my lesson ... buying from eBay (HK and China) means you need to buy not only 1 of the item but at least 2-2.5x the item04:12
nicksydneyso if i buy 100 pcs SMD LED I buy 200-250 to be safe :)04:13
whitequarknicksydney: I used tslib04:14
nicksydneywhitequark: from what i've read it can produce 5 point calibration ... the thing that i'm not sure is how does it communicate to display in the screen during calibration ?04:16
nicksydneyis it using fb or something ?04:16
nicksydneywhitequark: cool..thanks04:20
nicksydneycool http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/sigrok--cross-platform-open-source-logic-analyzer-software-with-protocol-decoder-support 04:25
whitequarkoo, a clone of saleae software. pretty nice04:26
whitequarkwpwrak: I've decided what board I'll try to mill first... http://sigrok.org/wiki/File:Saleae_logic_pcb_front.jpg04:33
whitequarkit's both simple and useful!04:33
whitequarkand the case too, although I wonder if my machine can work with aluminium04:36
wpwrakhehe :) looks useful04:38
wpwrakyour machine should be able to handle Al quite well. just go easy on the bits.04:38
wpwrakalso, does Al make sense for that case ? looks more like an acrylic job04:39
whitequarkmmm, it's originally done from Al04:40
whitequarkI'd need quite a chunk of acrylic04:40
wpwrakjust as much as Al. and i think acrylic is cheaper per ccm than Al04:40
wpwrakyour next quest: find a shop that sells you pieces of "crystal" clear acrylic cut to manageable sizes of, say, 5 mm and 10 mm.04:41
wpwrakmanageable size = no larger than the mill's range, preferably a bit smaller. if you plan to make relatively small things, use the size of these as a basis, multiply with up to 2 in each direction and add some borders, maybe 10 mm on the outside, 3-5 mm between parts04:43
whitequarkit's quite hard to buy acrylic sheets in less than 1x2m04:53
whitequark2x3 is even more common04:54
whitequarkthat's a tad too excessive04:54
wpwraknaw, the places that sell you big sheets often also sell you partial sheets04:54
wpwrakunless you go to the really large-scale suppliers04:54
whitequarkmmm, worth a try04:55
wpwrakyou may have to call them, though. they may not list all the options online04:55
wpwrake.g., from that list http://www.latinvia.com.ar/alianzas/seldis/institucional/index.cfm?boton=2&codalianza=3703 04:56
wpwrakyou'd never know that they'd sell you even 10 x 15 cm pieces in quantities of 1.04:56
wpwrak(i usually get 20 at a time or so)04:56
whitequarksounds really expensive07:56
DocScrutinizer05and of course a tub underneath, that catches the liquid galden07:57
whitequarkdoesn't it evaporate just when stored at room t°?07:57
whitequarkand fly away07:57
whitequarkI read somewhere that it does07:57
DocScrutinizer05very little07:57
DocScrutinizer05when you blow into the SMD fryer, you get a terrible mess of condensed galden on your whole table07:58
DocScrutinizer05at least that's what http://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv/ch/2012/03/140_Dampfphasenloeten-in-der-Friteuse tells08:00
wpwrak"... fry your fries until they are crisp and Galden" ...08:08
DocScrutinizer05yeah, they say you can fry sausages in Galden08:11
wpwrakwell, when microwaves were "new" there was a wave of books explaining how to cook with the microwave. maybe now there'll be some nerdy Galden cookbooks08:12
wpwraki can already see the kickstarter campaign ...08:13
DocScrutinizer05prolly not. NEVER heat to >260°C08:46
DocScrutinizer05or: HF + CF308:46
wpwrakideal for dieting: no fat needed for frying, and if you overheat, you get thinner even more quickly :)08:51
DocScrutinizer05funny how that stuff is called like 3 or 4 different names. 2 of them LS-230, HT-23008:52
DocScrutinizer05HS-230 seems also being used08:53
DocScrutinizer05interesting:  http://www.exmore.com/electronics-equipment/vaporsoldering/vaportechnology/soder-paste08:57
wpwrakat least it doesn't produce ClF3. that would get interesting even more quickly: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_save_you_this_time.php09:02
DocScrutinizer05http://alpha.alent.com/en/Products/Solder-Paste/OM-5100  solder paste comes with more docs than an ARM SoC09:11
whitequarkwow, you're not exaggerating09:12
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: btw, do deep fryers even have proper temperature control?09:13
DocScrutinizer05not really09:14
whitequarkah well, I've a thermocouple and a PID controller anyway09:14
whitequarkso doesn't matter.09:14
DocScrutinizer05that's fine :-)09:15
DocScrutinizer05the built-in thermostat is up to 190°C anyway09:15
DocScrutinizer05in that AEG fryer09:15
DocScrutinizer05needs some readjustment09:16
whitequarkyeah all the ones I can see locally are up to 190°09:16
wpwrakwhitequark: maybe also make sure you have the window open and nothing that would cause excessive injury in case you have to dive out of it. excessive injury that would reduce your speed when putting more distance between tomorrow's headline news and what may just not become your corpse that day09:17
DocScrutinizer05I think the was some acrylate issue that made them limit the temperature of fryers09:17
whitequarkwpwrak: ... not sure I follow09:17
wpwrak"have a clear and unobstructed escape path" :)09:18
whitequarkyou and your weird sense of humor ;)09:19
whitequarkoo, endmills have shipped09:19
nicksydneyinteresting . http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=104511:44
nicksydney"Transform any surface into a touchscreen"11:44
nicksydneywpwrak: Why you dont need to cry over Argentina -http://www.cnbc.com/id/10137200712:37
wpwraknicksydney: "don't worry about argentina because it's already lost" ? in 2002 the same sources predicted ten years of misery, a military dictatorship, and so on ;-)12:55
wpwraknicksydney: the truth is that we have a crappy government that made even crappier decisions. but don't underestimate the raw economical power of argentina. properly governed, it could look down on most of the rest of the world.12:57
wpwraknicksydney: thus, whenever the crisis is the thickest, the crazy ideas tend to be reigned in - in one way or another - and for a little while reasonable decisions tend to be made. then it almost instantly buoys back up. e.g., in 2002 it took just one year to mop up the worst of the crisis. it took a regime change before that could happen, though. we'll have to see how things play out this time.13:01
nicksydneyjust now i was reading about Iceland when the crisis hits them in 2005 they let the bank failed and even though it was painful for them back then now they have the lowest unemployment (4%) compared to other EU ..and they are growing at 2.3% (something like that) and targetting unemployment to 2%13:03
nicksydneythey just need "black sheep" to turn the attention away from the main problem t13:03
wpwrak(well, technically it was four regime changes. between 2001 and 2002, argentina had five different presidents in about as many weeks. but two were just automatic fallbacks after the real president resigned and the one in the middle was a dud who was rapidly persuaded to step down before he could do any real damage)13:04
wpwrakhaving someone to blame is always very important :)13:04
nicksydneywpwrak: http://ctrlv.in/288755 ... http://ctrlv.in/28875613:06
nicksydneyjust got deliveries of those :)13:06
wpwraklame ;-)13:07
nicksydneywpwrak: with the taper that is going on in the US there will lots more of this kind of news popping up....Turkey Lira has dropped again even after the central banks has hiked their rate...soon it will be some other countries...just grab  popcorns and enjoy :)13:08
nicksydney(pcb) backup for days when i'm too lazy to etch and need a QFP board stats :)13:09
wpwrakyeah, argentina isn't the only country in the world with problems, that's for sure13:09
nicksydneywpwrak: on another note...exciting times are coming http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/01/29/amd-opteron-a1100-server-socs-feature-4-to-8-arm-cortex-a57-cores/13:10
nicksydneyneed of this bad boys 13:10
wpwrakwhy ? :)13:12
nicksydneyfor my work :)13:13
nicksydneyneed excuse to buy build servers :)13:13
nicksydneyseems like Freescale is really picking up steam especially yhe imx6 http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/2150/1/VAB-820_%28Pico-ITX%29.html13:14
wpwrakthe whole i.MX line has been underappreciated13:20
rohmostly due to pricing i guess... quite expensive chips13:23
nicksydneyis it really expensive compared to other ARM quad cores ?13:24
nicksydneylike from TI or Qualcomm or NVidia ?13:24
wpwrakhmm, the i.MX28 seems to be fairly reasonably priced if you compare with other mid-range ARMs. not sure about the high end. that's a different territory anyway.13:28
Action: nicksydney wonder what's the best way to wire up 6 pins for a board without drilling a hole ?13:30
wpwrakthe problem seems under-specified13:31
nicksydneythinking of making another board but need a pin for programming the IC but don't want to drill hole in the board...so either i use a pad that i solder a wire (don't like it) or use a pin that can be soldered into the board13:32
whitequarkwires soldered like that are reasonably hard to tear off13:33
nicksydneysaw this http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-Wafer-Connector-3-96mm-6-Pins-Right-Angle-FREE-SHIPPING-/260863195192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbca87838 ...but no sure if that will work 13:33
whitequarkunless you overheat the PCB13:33
nicksydneywhitequark: true...just don't like things daggling around :)13:33
whitequarkjust desolder them afterwards?13:33
whitequarktestpoints are used all the time13:33
whitequarkcould also make a bed for programming but that's a lot of unnecessary effort13:33
nicksydneywhat you mean "bed" ?13:33
nicksydneywas even thinking of using a usb with 6 pins13:34
whitequarka testbed. several springed pins mounted somewhere, to get to the testpoints without soldering13:34
nicksydneyspring pins13:35
nicksydneypogo pins13:36
wpwraklike this: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/lt-pgm-2.jpg13:37
wpwrakalthough i wouldn't use MDF for it anymore :)13:37
nicksydneyso the pins in that pic was solder onto the board ?13:38
nicksydneyany pics without the mdf :)13:38
wpwrakhmm, i'm afraid not13:40
wpwrakbut yes, there's soldered into/on the board. you get them with or without through-hole pin on the other side13:40
wpwrak(through-hole pin helps to center them)13:41
nicksydneywill order few of them to have it handy 13:41
wpwrakin y-box, the large pads at the bottom, spaces with 4 mm minimum center-to-center distance between each other, are for such a fixture13:41
wpwrakthey're bloody expensive. but very useful to have around13:42
nicksydneywpwrak: did you cut mdf with laser ?13:43
wpwrakall done with my mill13:44
wpwrakalso, laser can only do 2D (more or less). so you'd have to cut the Z profile with a mill anyway. and the good luck reaching down into the pits of that structure with a laser ;-)13:45
wpwrakthe problem with MDF is that you get a lot of loose fibers. so you need a second run to trim them. then cut off more manually in the more delicate areas. it's a mess. acrylic doesn't have such issues.13:46
wpwrakso the next one will be acrylic. with a simplified stacking. instead of a MDF block that's milled on both sides (the inside of this one is hollow, with a raised border to that the pcb inside is a few mm from the case and can have components on top),13:48
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: silly request: can you translate ~30 seconds from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lkzJMyvRmk#t=124 ?13:48
whitequarkI'm just to curious13:49
wpwraki'd have acrylic milled only from the top, then have the pcb flat on the bottom, components either on the bottom, under large cuts in the acrylic (e.g., for connectors), or with the PCB extending beyond the acrylic. then provide some vertical separation simply with the length of the screws13:50
paul_boddieNice milling, wpwrak! Is this the thing you'll be using to enter your launch codes?13:50
wpwrakwon't be as tidy as the MDF box but much easier to make13:50
wpwrakpaul_boddie: yeah, that's the sort of things this kind of critter is used for13:51
wpwraknicksydney: (hollow on the inside) here's a picture without the pcb: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/pgm-case-1-bot.jpg13:51
wpwrakpaul_boddie: like this (that project is dormant now) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/lt-pgm-ben.jpg13:52
paul_boddiePress the red button and...13:55
wpwraknot sure if it actually did anything yet ;-)13:58
nicksydneywpwrak: in acrylic it will look more sexier :)13:58
paul_boddienicksydney: Do you think the Opteron thing will "validate" ARM on server at last?13:59
nicksydneypaul_boddie: most probably but i think it's more about taking market share from Intel for ARM more than anything14:00
paul_boddieI guess the whole thing needs a push after Calxeda (or whatever they were called) gave up.14:00
paul_boddieSo much for HP's Project Moonshot! (If I remember the affiliations correctly.)14:01
whitequarkI don't think that ARM "needs" to validate itself on servers14:01
whitequarkthe "damage" is already done, intel's latest chips are very power-efficient in servers14:02
paul_boddieMeanwhile, the Freescale stuff pops up in interesting places. I was shown the internals of an e-reader recently that makes a nice Freescale development board.14:02
whitequarkMIPS/W is not the metric you'd use an ARM over Intel CPU today14:02
nicksydneyCalxeda was really tragic don't undersatnd what really happened to them....because they had prototype ready14:02
paul_boddieAMD has the interconnect expertise, and maybe they'll put these in the SeaMicro products.14:03
paul_boddieIntel have got a lot better, but that Quark thing showed that they still have a way to go at the lower end of power consumption.14:04
whitequarkHaswell is arguably on par with ARM, *in sleep*14:05
whitequarksure, when working it's pretty much the same as usual, but that's what you get for wanting x8614:05
paul_boddienicksydney: Cool TQFP breakout boards! I like the simple way they accommodate different sizes of packages.14:13
nicksydneyso ARM has put a blog up "Accelerating ARMv8-A Powered Server Adoption Through Collaborative Platform Standardization" - http://community.arm.com/people/jeffunderhill/blog/2014/01/29/accelerating-armv8-a-powered-server-adoption-through-collaborative-platform-standardization20:52
nicksydneyinteresting "When you buy a 64-bit ARM server later this year, it will be standardized, will support a standardized platform, will run standardized Operating System software, and will just work"  https://plus.google.com/+JonMasters/posts/X7MPfoFwkTh20:54
nicksydneywpwrak: uhh...S. Africa hikes rates http://www.cnbc.com/id/10137262720:56
nicksydneyso India, Turkey, S.Africa has tick the box of increasing rate...now let's see who is next !20:57
nicksydneymy best guess will be an Asian country20:57
nicksydneyWTH...want to download the ARM server base spec and it is asking me to provide with personal details !!! http://ctrlv.in/288898 ... c'mon !21:04
wpwrak"if you want to know intimate personal details of our hardware, we'd like to know a few personal things about you, too ..."21:26
wpwrakfor "register-to-read" sites, http://www.dispostable.com/ can be very useful21:27
wpwraksometimes they also accept nonsense without even sending a mail21:27
wpwrakif they're really hardcore, there are also sites that generate a complete fake identity for you21:27
nicksydneywpwrak: i just can phantom the idea that to download a spec you have to give details...wth were they thinking when publishing this :)21:49
wpwrakthe word you're looking for is "fathom" :)22:03
nicksydneyhahha...sorry yah..too fast typing22:04
wpwrakand yes, that sort of reasoning is weird. it's probably their marketing department lusting after more addresses.22:04
nicksydneyPhantom sounds like the cartoon :)22:04
wpwrakwell, the idea has something a bit not quite there to it ;-)22:05
nicksydneywpwrak: seems like the interest rate hike will be spreading fast and furious http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/01/emerging-markets-crisis-deepens/ ... lots of currencies collapsing22:36
nicksydneyRussia, Chile,Brazil, Indonesia and soon Mexico and Hungary22:37
nicksydneynot to mention Aussie dollar too :)22:37
nicksydneyhope they increase the rate here soon :)22:37
larschttp://i.imgur.com/4E2YcN6.jpg applies to engineers as well22:48
wpwrakbut now that we have social networking, we can share our eureka moments - and bury the bull...*ht ones in silence :)22:52
nicksydneyeureka !22:52
nicksydneyuwe_ / uwe_mobile__ : is this you http://www.hermann-uwe.de/22:54
larscit's him22:55
larscI think he is busy playing valve games right now ;)22:56
nicksydneylarsc: thanks23:02
nicksydneyuwe_: just want to say thank you for your blog i came across your blog 1 year ago when starting learning about embedded and electronics :)23:02
nicksydneyhttp://www.quirky.com/ -- inventors shop :)23:17
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