#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2014-01-12

larscapelete: yes08:16
larschahaha: http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2014/Monday/175-The_Six_Stages_of_systemd_-_Rodger_Donaldson.mp417:40
pcercueinice GIFs17:52
larscStage 2, Anger: "Lennart is literally Satan and Redhat is essentially the Microsoft of Linux"18:00
whitequarkyou mean he's not?18:01
larscI'm just quoting the talk18:02
roh'getroffene hunde bellen'18:03
lekernelat least, systemd fixes the problem of your laptop suspending when you close it during shutdown18:03
rohhe is just annoyed that lennart is fixing problems in a non-classic-unix-way18:04
rohand that it wasnt his idea18:04
lekernel(only to complete the shutdown when you open it again, if the battery wasn't drained already and awarded you a fsck)18:04
pcercueilekernel: but then you can't configure your laptop to suspend when closing the lid only if on battery18:04
rohsystemd is something i really look forward to, compared to the broken classic unix concepts. well. maybe when its avail on debian by default.18:05
larscyep, modern init done right18:06
rohfor the embedded world there is also a moden init/process management: procd and netifd18:06
rohits using ubus, instead of dbus.18:07
pcercueiinit done right, heh18:08
pcercueiI'll stick to using busybox' init system for now18:08
larscpcercuei: did you find a place to stay?18:14
pcercueiI'm not searching :)18:15
larscdid you change your mind?18:16
pcercueino, I signed the contract18:17
pcercueihowever, looking for a place from here is not something easy; first because most of the offers disappear after one week, and I prefer to be able to visit18:17
larscdid they ask you what kind of laptop you want?18:18
pcercueiI get a laptop?18:20
pcercueiI thought I'd have a regular desktop PC18:20
pcercueiI want it pink :D18:21
larscnobody has a desktop pc, I think18:21
larscit always takes forever to order stuff, would be a bit unfortunate if there was no computer when you start ;)18:29
pcercueiwhat do you mean by what "kind" of laptop I want?18:30
pcercueiI'll have to choose between models?18:30
larscI think there is a netbook, a normal laptop, and a developer laptop18:31
larscyou want the developer laptop18:31
larscmore cpus, more ram, etc...18:32
larscI'm just asking, because it happend in the past that people simply forgot to order stuff18:33
pcercueiand I believe I can't use my own laptop18:34
larscnot if you want to have access to the intranet18:34
larscmy vacation is over now, I'll ask tomorrow18:35
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: re Galden and excellent gas transporting properties: I just notices that it is easily explained by Joerg's 2nd physical law of aggregate states: the more a substance tends to transform into another aggregate state, the less of other substances of that aggregate state it can solve20:05
DocScrutinizer05hot water can solve less gas since it's closer to becoming a gas itself20:05
DocScrutinizer05Galden is pretty far from transition into gas phase20:06
whitequarkthat's a really strange observation20:06
whitequarkotoh I never read up on the actual science behind gas solubility, maybe now's the time20:07
DocScrutinizer05strange observation? really? think of sugar in cold tea vs hot tea. Cold tea is closer to the solid aggregate state of sugar20:28
whitequarkstrange is a poor word20:28
DocScrutinizer05and ice can't solve any other solids, as we all know20:28
whitequarkwhat I meant is that it's not clear whether your observation reflects some underlying principle or it's just a lucky coincidence for several obvious cases20:29
whitequarkwell, as I understand, ice won't include anything except water because it's a crystal20:29
DocScrutinizer05I state it's a basic law, and invented/found by me20:29
whitequarknot all solids have such structure20:29
whitequarksure you do :p20:29
whitequarktry this at home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwolYFGM9pU20:31
whitequarkre solubility of gasses: for some reason no one actually writes about baseline solubility of different solvent/solute pairs20:34
whitequarkalso, damn paywalls :/20:35
DocScrutinizer05re my 2nd law of aggregate: It still lacks the part about trans-aggregate cases, like gas in solid, sublimation, etc20:36
whitequarkooooo, found a paper explaining solubility of oxygen in PFCs20:36
whitequark"The variety of approaches which have been used to determine the solubility of gasses in liquids is an adequate testimonial to man's ingenuity." hehehe20:40
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: of course joerg's 2nd aggregate law is not sufficient to explain the special properties of Galden resp long-chain-alcohols20:45
whitequarkfascinating. that article links to another article directly discussing solubility of oxygen in PFCs (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021961471800046; paywall), which explains them via scaled particle theory (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp040398b; paywall)20:52
whitequark(tell me if you need a PDF for any of them)20:54
whitequarkweird. SPT apparently approximates both solvent and solute as hard spheres and derives the properties from *just the geometry*20:56
whitequarkand it also apparently has a good agreement with empirical results20:56
DocScrutinizer05(geometry) much in line with my contruction of reality21:00
DocScrutinizer05thermodynamics and solubility both are quite simple mechanical concepts basically21:03
whitequarkwhy doesn't it take dipole interactions into account?21:04
DocScrutinizer05even electricity mostly can get explained by mechanical concepts21:04
DocScrutinizer05well, dipoles should get taken into account, as a force21:04
DocScrutinizer05without dipoles water wasn't possible21:05
whitequarkof course it is, just with different properties21:05
whitequarklower entalphy of vaporization, etc21:05
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what i meant21:05
whitequarkand yet, SPT doesn't take into account the non-geometrical properties of particles at all21:06
DocScrutinizer05well, probably they can get away with considering a water macromolecule as inert object. 21:07
whitequarkdo water macromolecules even exist?21:08
DocScrutinizer05if the gas is interacting with the dipoles then I bet that has some effect21:08
whitequarkfrom my understanding it doesn't have any structure, neither permanent nor transient21:08
DocScrutinizer05water creates pseudo-macromolecules by building +o-+o-+o- chains21:09
DocScrutinizer05thus the *effective* molecular mass is way higher than what H2O suggests21:10
whitequarkwould like to see a source on that21:10
DocScrutinizer05errr, elementar school physics21:11
whitequarkyeah, that can often be completely wrong :]21:11
DocScrutinizer05however it's the explanation why water is a liquid on temperatures <100°C21:12
whitequark"macromolecule" is a rather specific term and I'm afraid not the right one here21:12
DocScrutinizer05probably, that's why I said "pseudo-macromolecules"21:13
whitequarkof course it has higher intermolecular forces due to polar molecules21:13
whitequarkalso I don't think it's "chains", it can form more than two h-bonds21:13
DocScrutinizer05well, up to you to find the terminology that pleases you21:14
DocScrutinizer05I never even learned the english terms21:15
DocScrutinizer05so I invent english words that seem to describe what I mean21:16
whitequarkyou can just post the german ones, I'll bother to look them up21:16
whitequarksaves us both confusion21:16
nicksydneyBitcoin ATM :) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-12/bitcoin-atms-are-coming-new-york-city21:40
wpwrak_grmbl. the new ybox is a pain to route.23:05
wpwrak_well, i guess once i figure out a component placing that actually works it'll all be fine ...23:06
--- Mon Jan 13 201400:00

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