#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2014-01-07

nicksydney_wohooo...etch my LED wheel03:50
wpwrak_try tinning it04:00
nicksydney_i've got something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-BGA-SMD-Soldering-Paste-Flux-Grease-RMA-223-10cc-/190548507036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5d93799c ... correct me if i'm wrong this is flux right ?04:02
wpwrak_"GA SMD Soldering Paste Flux Grease" = ??? ;-)04:03
wpwrak_it looks like flux, though04:03
wpwrak_solder paste would be greyish and opaque04:03
wpwrak_of course, grease could just look like flux. let's hope it's not that ;-)04:04
wpwrak_RMA suggests it's indeed flux. not the nicest kind but usable04:04
wpwrak_RMA means it's sticky. its soldering properties are great but it's a pain to get rid of04:05
nicksydney_the board -- http://ctrlv.in/28007404:05
wpwrak_the one i like the most is "water soluble". it still helps a lot with soldering but it less sticky and can be removed with relative ease04:06
nicksydney_http://ctrlv.in/28007504:06
nicksydney_so normally the best way is apply flux first and then tin it right ?04:07
wpwrak_there's a third kind, "no-clean". you supposedly don't have to remove it though some experts say you really should anyway. i didn't find the one i tried to be very satisfying in terms of helping with soldering04:07
wpwrak_yes04:07
nicksydney_ok i will try on the test circuit that i have 2 on my board (on top and bottom) just to make sure :)04:07
wpwrak_looks pretty good04:08
nicksydney_i learn now that to save on etching combo i will use sharpie so that it will not be dissolved that way i can have my combo HCL / H2O2 longer :)04:09
nicksydney_the track i'm using 0.4mm04:10
nicksydney_as recommened by the expert here :)04:10
nicksydney_black and blue sharpie works other colour does not work 04:10
nicksydney_just a tip :)04:10
nicksydney_wpwrak_: something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRA-80-WATER-SOLUBLE-FLUX-PEN-Great-for-Solar-Cells-REFILLABLE-/110922677662?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d381bd9e ?04:15
wpwrak_that's almost exactly what i'm using04:16
nicksydney_i use this solder paste http://www.ebay.com/itm/50g-Mechanic-Soldering-Solder-Welding-Paste-Flux-MCN-300-SMD-SMT-Sn63-Pb37-new-/171150278650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item27d959fffa 04:18
nicksydney_think need to buy a better soldering iron04:19
wpwrak_the solder looks okay. not sure what you plan to do with paste, though. your process seems more compatible with solder in the form of wire04:24
nicksydney_the paste make it easier for me to solder i'm not that good in soldering with wire with small component...haven't got the hang of it :)04:25
wpwrak_what you do it that you put the solder on the tip of the iron. then you apply it with the iron.04:26
wpwrak_the flux in the solder will evaporate this way before you reach the component but you already have applied flux there, so it'll work04:27
nicksydney_will try it later on the test circuit :)04:27
wpwrak_with solder paste, you'd apply a tiny drop on each pad, then place the component, hold it down, and then use the iron. the big issue with this approach is that it's easy to smear solder paste around when you lose control of a component04:29
wpwrak_that unsoldered solder paste will still be conductive and when you apply heat to it or in its vicinity, it'll form solder bridges. so all in all, this is a messy process, especially as you move towards smaller components that tend to jump from your firm grip more often04:30
nicksydney_wpwrak_: true...need a steady hand04:42
nicksydney_wpwrak_: what osci you using ?05:01
wpwrak_osci ?05:01
nicksydney_oscilloscope05:02
nicksydney_:)05:02
wpwrak_ah, 'scope ;-) a dying Rigol DS1102CD05:02
nicksydney_neat....need to buy a new one i presume ? :)05:04
wpwrak_considering replacing it with a Rigol DS2072 or a Rigol DS1074Z05:04
wpwrak_yeah, without proper communication it's a lot less useful05:05
nicksydney_http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/05:07
nicksydney_yikes that's very pricey ...(well for me) :)05:07
nicksydney_ds2072 $899 http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS2072.html05:07
nicksydney_ds2202 $1835 http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS2202.html05:07
nicksydney_that's why i stick to software no investment just download05:08
nicksydney_hahahaha05:08
wpwrak_the trick is that you can "unlock" 200 MHz mode in the 2072 :)05:09
nicksydney_yeah it is there in that post05:09
wpwrak_but yes, you have to put about USD 1000 on the table if you want a decent scope05:09
nicksydney_:)05:09
wpwrak_ah yes, eevblog is where you find all those things :)05:10
whitequarkwpwrak_, nicksydney_: I've had horrible experience with water-soluble flux05:10
nicksydney_whitequark: what kind of bad experience ?05:10
whitequarkthe problem with it was that it's been marketed as both water-soluble and no-clean05:11
wpwrak_you can go a little cheaper with one of the 1000E/D series rigols. they're a bit better than the 1000C/CD series. not great but decent workhorses.05:11
nicksydney_wpwrak_: for me i can only spend max $150 for scope if ever i can get one....more than that is beyond my budget :(05:11
whitequarkbut in reality it was neither: I don't think I ever managed to completely remove it from any of my boards, either with water or various chemicals, AND the damn thing conducts well enough to account for inter-trace resistance of dozens of ohms05:11
whitequarkalso seems to be very hygroscopic05:12
wpwrak_nicksydney_: well, try 2nd hand 20 MHz analog scopes. i've heard that they made that sort before the war. the first punic war, to be precise ;-))05:12
whitequarkit's called "flux TT", and hopefully it isn't produced or sold outside of Russia, because I feel for the poor soul who accidentally uses that05:12
wpwrak_whitequark: sounds great ;-)05:13
nicksydney_"very hygroscopic" ?05:13
whitequarkattracts moisture from air05:13
wpwrak_"TT" = "Terribly Troublesome" ?05:13
nicksydney_wpwrak_: there aren't that many of those analog scopes available locally here and if they are available you bet they will be selling more tha $20005:13
whitequarkwpwrak_: perhaps it's a reference to TT pistol, as the preferential way to end your suffering05:13
nicksydney_whitequark: so TT flux is suicide pretty much :)05:14
whitequarkyeah, it's absolutely terrible05:14
whitequarkand it's not just my hands :p05:14
nicksydney_whitequark: thanks...i keep that in mind05:14
wpwrak_whitequark: ever tried ultrasound cleaning ? that may even be able to defeat some of the nastier fluxed05:15
nicksydney_wpwrak_: something like this fw i can use https://code.google.com/p/opendso/ 05:15
whitequarkwpwrak_: I've subjected those TT-stained boards to more than four ultrasonic baths, while rinsing them with water, acetone and alcohol in between05:15
wpwrak_for my "water soluble", i just leave it some 10 minutes in the cleaner. with demineralized water. (though "water soluble" really refers to hot water under pressure)05:16
whitequarkI don't know in whose corrupted imagination is that thing soluble in ANYTHING05:16
wpwrak_oh ;-)05:16
nicksydney_wpwrak_: ahhh .... this one is within my reach http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/dso-quad-4-channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-p-736.html :)05:16
whitequarknicksydney_: that's a really unimpressive scope though05:16
nicksydney_whitequark: boy you play with a lot of sonics thingy :)05:16
nicksydney_whitequark: that's what my money can only buy ... very limited budget05:17
whitequarkit's the kind you could make yourself, except sold for 10x the price it's worth05:17
whitequarkhrm, that's almost $200. I think lower-end rigols are better than that and cost about same05:17
whitequarkmaybe a used one from ebay?05:17
nicksydney_whitequark: http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=rigol&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1 ... locally the cheapest i can find for Rigol brand is $425 (free postage) :)05:18
nicksydney_wpwrak_: same like yours http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rigol-DS1052E-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2Ch-50-MHz-/110565156787?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19be3267b305:19
whitequarknicksydney_: http://dx.com/ru/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573 ?05:19
whitequarkwell, http://dx.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573 would be easier to read05:19
nicksydney_whitequark: $380 is WAY beyond me :(05:20
nicksydney_need to save up for few months first i suppose05:20
wpwrak_yeah, the DS1052E should be a decent choice if you can "unlock" the 100 MHz. else it's a bit slow if you care about things like checking signal integrity05:20
whitequarkwpwrak_: dsoquad seems to have mostly same technical specs as 1052e, but I'm somewhat wary of trusting that thing05:21
nicksydney_"checking signal integrity" in design like communication and things like that or also important if designing board like anelok, beaglebone and such ?05:21
wpwrak_nicksydney_: it's for those "what the hell is wrong ?" moments :)05:22
nicksydney_like the one problem you had with the OLED being short circuit ?05:22
wpwrak_whitequark: 72 MSa/s ;-)05:22
whitequarkoh, right.05:22
nicksydney_http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=DSO_Quad says.... http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=DSO_Quad05:22
wpwrak_whitequark: the rigol has 1 GSa/s05:22
nicksydney_(Upgrade to Two 72MS/s analog channels, Upto 144MS/s if configured to single channel from .sys version v1.31)05:22
wpwrak_also 1 MSa memory vs. 4 kSa (bwahaha). and so on.05:23
wpwrak_it's a toy05:23
whitequarkyes, that's what I was talking about.05:23
nicksydney_https://github.com/xioTechnologies/DAQ3205:25
wpwrak_nicksydney_: still very slow. that means that you can't properly handle signals above ~20 MHz. well, they don't seem to specify the analog bandwidth. maybe that's already the limit anyway.05:25
wpwrak_the OLED power drop is something even a slow scope would catch. but for example glitches on a digital line or heavily distorted signals need something better05:26
nicksydney_so if an MCU is running at 25MHz it won't be able to measure it ..is my understanding correct ?05:27
wpwrak_(DAQ32) 32 kSa/s divided by the number of channels ? why not just use a multimeter and switch channels manually ? ;-)05:28
whitequark*g*05:28
nicksydney_wpwrak_: like the way you put it bluntly ;)05:28
wpwrak_if the cpu outputs 25 MHz signals, you could get aliasing and such. also, if the analog bandwidth is in that area, you'd get attenuation05:29
wpwrak_analog bw = the frequency at which the signal is attenuated by 3 dB05:29
rz2knever buy those dso_quad - they are horrible and slow. buy an 10-20 year old digital scope from hp-agilent/tektronix/lecroy and have a good hacking. one of my pals has 1991 year HP-Agilent logic analyzer system, it still can measure what a typical hardware hacker would ever need.05:30
rz2kit runs some weird dos and screen saw better days, but with last calibration around 2000-s it is still pretty accurate05:31
nicksydney_what you guys think about this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GW-GOS-622B-Dual-Trace-20MHz-CRT-Oscilloscope-/171207087836?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item27dcbcd6dc ?05:32
nicksydney_it's local and i can pick it up05:33
nicksydney_damn just noticed it's very close to where i'm saytaying05:33
rz2kif you are in AU go check if something like that are on eevblog forum, guys there know local market better than ebay05:33
wpwrak_20 MHz. zzzz... ;-)05:34
wpwrak_analog scopes are nice ... if you're debugging an AM radio or such ;)05:36
nicksydney_wpwrak_: hmmm.... :(05:36
nicksydney_rz2k: will post there too ..thanks05:37
rz2knicksydney_: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LeCroy-9310A-Dual-400MHz-DIGITAL-Oscilloscope-CRO-100MS-/370836801243?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item56579886db&_uhb=1 here is what you want05:37
nicksydney_rz2k: that's way OVER my budget ..unfortunately 05:37
whitequarka CRT!05:38
wpwrak_for a modern scope you want: at least 60 MHz analog BW, preferably >= 100. sample rate at least 5x the BW, preferably higher. memory, 1 MSa or more. the more the merrier. digital connectivity for readout and also for automated setup.05:38
nicksydney_wpwrak_: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATTEN-OSCILLOSCOPE-Scope-ADS1062CAL-60MHz-2Ch-1GS-s-7-LCD-Screen-USB-Multimeter-/131057561246?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1e83a3ae9e05:38
nicksydney_Dual channel-channel bandwidth 60MHZ-100MHZ; " The real time sampling rate is 1GSas;05:38
whitequark>Floppy Drive: Yes05:38
whitequarkhehe05:38
wpwrak_so the entry-levels rigols just fit that profile. oh, and you want to avoid the lesser china crap, like owon, hantek, siglent, and such05:41
wpwrak_they often have "nice" specs but basically everybody who has one curses it05:41
nicksydney_wpwrak_: good tip....looks like just focus on either older model or Rigol05:42
whitequarkthat lecroy scope is rather impressive btw, for its cost05:43
nicksydney_what really makes a scope so very expensive ? is is the components inside it or the amount of time it takes to develop the fw ?05:43
rz2knicksydney_: low product quantity (compare scope to your coffemachine), extremely hard to make - custom made hybrid ICs on the frontend, lots of RAM and FPGAs on the backend to aquire that megasamples (that is literally million samples taken from the frontend per second to the backend and then shown to you, or stored)05:47
wpwrak_"Probes: No" hehe :)05:47
rz2kso yes, before Rigol did their 50Mhz low price scope on Altera FPGAs and some cheapy frontend, they were $1K+ and no lower for digital ones05:48
nicksydney_rz2k: but isn't the price of FPGA, RAMs are now very cheap compared to how it was few years ago ?05:48
wpwrak_nicksydney_: ah yes, atten ... more china crap ;-)05:48
nicksydney_rz2k: ahhh 05:48
wpwrak_looks like a dumbed down rigol. be assured that the dials and such will wear out rather quickly :)05:48
nicksydney_saw this post ...."I would like to encourage everyone interested in used equipment to check out Agilent's premium equipment store on eBay. They offer almost new, slightly used equipment incl. cal certificates at huge discounts of up to 70% of list price. Examples are the Agilent Arb 33522 that has a list price of 3,200 US$ is offered for 2,100 US$ and they accept offers below their asking price. The equipment is 05:49
nicksydney_shipped directly out of Agilent's factory in Malaysia (at no cost for the buyer). You have to be somewhat patient and watch the store ~ once per week to find equipment that fits your need.05:49
nicksydney_Most of the equipment is still very expensive, but if you are patient and with some luck you may find what you need, more or less brand new at 70% discount.....05:49
nicksydney_http://www.ebay.com/sch/agilentused/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p2053788"05:49
wpwrak_(cheap ram) that's why you can now get scopes with 140 MSa :) (ridol DS4000 series. alas, serious budget-busters)05:50
wpwrak_agilent is good but unfortunately a bit pricy05:51
rz2kand as I said, things like scopes or good multimeters dont wear out - you could buy that 500mhz lecroy in 1995 and you can still use it now, just calibrate it and you are good to go.05:51
wpwrak_they also have somewhat low specs on memory and such. and a lot of nice things are optional.05:51
wpwrak_well, eventually something will get them ...05:52
nicksydney_seems like no way out except save some more for me :)05:54
rz2kbuy unlocked rigol on eevblog forum05:54
rz2kthere were a series of rigols that you could unlock from 50mhz to 100mhz without problems05:55
rz2konly uart needed05:55
wpwrak_or just a code in some cases05:55
wpwrak_(DS1000Z, DS2000, DS4000)05:56
nicksydney_will troll around the forum and see if i can pick one uip05:56
wpwrak_there is a code generator: http://pastebin.com/t75UYN3g05:57
wpwrak_(found at eevblog, natch')05:58
nicksydney_wpwrak_: free sample http://www.noritake-elec.com/evalkit-sample.php  :)06:01
rz2kI bet rigol themselves said what and where is used, they have much more money from selling the units to every hardware hacker around the world because of the keygen than from selling those unlockable options06:01
nicksydney_interesting http://www.openhantek.org/ 06:09
whitequarkUSB scopes... meh06:12
rz2kI have one around, it has EMI shield consisting of a little piece of copper scotch tape above one of the DACs, should I mention that this scope is horribly noisy and slow?06:19
nicksydney_reading through the forums i concur that it would be ideal to stay away from non-Rigol brand06:23
nicksydney_seems like lots of humans are having problem with non-Rigol :)06:23
nicksydney_interesting that Siglent has a tech person in the forum http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/06:24
rz2ksiglent is also on OEM manufacturer iirc06:24
rz2kan*06:24
rz2kthey do things for owon/hantek/whatever06:24
rz2kand their own brand06:24
nicksydney_damn this guy http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/ reverse engineer Tekway/Hantek06:25
nicksydney_rz2k: yes that's right06:25
nicksydney_wpwrak_: regarding USB....if the datasheet from MCU does not specify resistor value for D+ and D- ... what is the best way to estimate it ?06:53
whitequarknicksydney_: terminating resistor or pull-up?06:54
nicksydney_terminating i guess06:54
whitequarkafaik that should match the cabling. it's specified in USB spec06:55
nicksydney_pull up normally used for D- if i correctly read the schematics06:55
whitequarkit depends on speed. D+ for low-speed, D- for high-speed (or vice versa, never could remember that)06:55
whitequarkso, terminating resistors for USB are 68 ohm06:55
nicksydney_so  pull up resistor if in D+ indicate low speed while on D- it's high speed ? is that how i read it ?06:56
whitequarklet me recheck06:57
whitequarkyeah I mixed it up. pull-up on D- is low-speed, D+ is full-speed06:58
whitequarkhigh-speed is full-speed plus additional negotiation06:58
whitequarkwhoever named those modes must have deliberately been confusing07:00
nicksydney_cool thanks whitequark07:01
whitequarklow-speed is 1.5MBps, full-speed is 12Mbps, high-speed is 480Mbps07:01
nicksydney_seems like my best bet to get good cheap quality scope is to attend one of this event http://www.ccarc.org.au/wp/ccarc-field-day/ 07:01
whitequarkthis thing is badass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J7XnfFHVeo07:57
nicksydney_whitequark: cannot view the video08:08
whitequarkwhy?08:09
nicksydney_got delivery for the following toner transfer paper http://www.ebay.com/itm/400505239086?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l264908:10
nicksydney_oh my bad i can view the video now08:11
wpwrak_(flir) what, no cat walking into the image on that nice big empty floor ?09:38
wpwrak_nicksydney_: resistors depend on the chip. some have built-in resistors, some have some resistors build-in and others not, and there are variations in the termination resistors as well09:39
whitequarknicksydney_: on the second though my advice about resistor values was flawed, ignore it11:00
nicksydney_wpwrak_: you use the yellow paper for the toner transfer correct ?12:17
wpwrak_no, i use a "glossy" printer paper12:18
nicksydney_ahh ok ... thought you are using the same yellow paper that i just got today12:18
wpwrak_naw, always had good luck with easily sourced printer paper :)12:21
nicksydney_wpwrak_: check this http://www.iheartrobotics.com/2011_07_01_archive.html ... one of the step it is using silver plating powder .. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pEWZxt_G8mM/Th0GR-8h7mI/AAAAAAAACbE/Ql9vwHlEdyQ/s640/pcb-18.jpg .. have you come across this before ?12:52
wpwrak_sounds expensive ;)12:56
wpwrak_haven't seen this one yet, no. there are others and also some nasty chemicals. but just tinning with the soldering iron accomplishes the same and is quick and easy.12:57
whitequarknicksydney_: wpwrak_ is right. I heard it's possible to tin pcbs with rose's alloy, citric acid and water, but apparently the resulting coating is suboptimal13:01
whitequarkso while it looks very neat, I wouldn't really recommend that.13:01
DocScrutinizer05\o/ 500246471  a) 597pcs 6.50EUR/1 14days shipping  b) 1000pcs 2.55USD/1 shipping 3-5days   c) 1000pcs 1.55USD/1 shipping 1 week  \o/13:01
wpwrak_now, quick, let's buy them all before DocScrutinizer05 does ;-)13:05
DocScrutinizer05good luck! you'll not even receive the offers before we receive our components13:07
DocScrutinizer05this are true offers mailed to us, so no hoax13:08
DocScrutinizer05and you can't find those in the intarweb13:08
nicksydney_DocScrutinizer05: what component is that for ?13:09
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 display connector13:10
DocScrutinizer05the damn unobtainium obsolete component13:10
DocScrutinizer05we got three *real* sources now13:11
Action: DocScrutinizer05 does a dance of joy13:11
nicksydney_can you show me url with the image curious want to see how it looks like13:12
nicksydney_so looks like there are money to made if we can hoard component and keep it for few years :)13:13
Action: nicksydney_ managed to find on how to create multiple copies inside PcbNew so as not to waste copper .. create 2 design in 1 copper..wohoo13:14
nicksydney_loves kicad13:14
DocScrutinizer05http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/5000246471/5000246471-ND/281874613:14
wpwrak_whoa. massive thunderstorm. a c't some 1.5 from the window got drenched :)13:14
DocScrutinizer05LOL13:15
nicksydney_DocScrutinizer05: it looks like a clipped connector13:15
nicksydney_i can see the mechanical drawing from datasheet13:15
nicksydney_wpwrak_: pop up the vodka and enjoy the day :)13:16
wpwrak_hmm yes, a nice icy vodka from the freezer would be nice :)13:16
wpwrak_the ice comes free from the sky at the moment13:16
nicksydney_all works out just fine when you trust life to nature :)13:17
nicksydney_played around with kicad and realised that you can create a connection in PcbNew even if it does not exist in the schematics..awesome !13:17
wpwrak_just turn off DRC and pcbnew will let you do anything you want, no matter how evil ;-)13:19
nicksydney_how to turn it off 13:20
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: don't take that ice, don't help them to discard their toxic waste and fallout13:20
DocScrutinizer05now for that nasty common-anode vs common-catode RGB LED issue. Will cost me another day 13:22
nicksydney_DocScrutinizer05: new chinese phone startup http://oneplus.net/ ... they are joining forces with Cyanogen (commercial entity of Cyanogenmod)13:22
DocScrutinizer05mhm13:22
wpwrak_nicksydney_: click on the little bug icon at the top of the left icon bar13:22
nicksydney_wpwrak_: there is no option inside that to turn off the DRC 13:23
nicksydney_DocScrutinizer05: the so called 'CEO' of that company is ex OPPO manager :)13:23
DocScrutinizer05what is OPPO?13:24
nicksydney_http://en.oppo.com/ .. dubbed the "Samsung" of China :)13:24
DocScrutinizer05hmm13:24
nicksydney_the craze nowadays http://www.mobicity.com.au/oppo-n1-cyanogenmod-version.html#.UswAJXiJSlg13:24
nicksydney_out-of-the-box Cynogenmod version of Android phone :)13:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm not much interested in any flavor of andridiot13:25
nicksydney_andridiot :)13:25
nicksydney_wpwrak_: sorry misunderstood you ... found the 'bug' icon 13:26
DocScrutinizer05I'm just enjoying the joy of dealing with a fsckdup Qualcom phone that is based on a android HAL, though they put some new OS (sailfish) on top of it13:28
DocScrutinizer05causing nausea13:28
nicksydney_miss the good ol' nokia days...where computer is a computer and phone is for sms and voice...life was simpler13:28
mstevensis anything interesting going on in the free hardware world?14:06
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: do you still have a mail account on openmoko.org?14:34
lekernelmstevens, yes, migen, misoc, mixxeo14:41
lekerneland the soon to be announced physics application of the first two14:42
lekernelmstevens, and yosys14:45
mstevenslekernel: hmm, I can see how those might be cool if you could design hardware14:46
wpwrak_DocScrutinizer05: mail to openmoko gets forwarded to almesberger.net14:47
wpwrak_the winter in the US must be really bad. last evening, i ordered from fedex about an hours before the deadline and it only shipped today. first time ever that they don't do it on the same day.14:49
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: that's fine. I however wonder why my TLS-ESMTP fails14:51
DocScrutinizer05can't send anymore, receive fine14:51
DocScrutinizer05roh: ping15:11
DocScrutinizer05roh: I could use some help with failing TLS-SMTP on openmoko.org MX15:11
DocScrutinizer05I am a bit lost with my wireshark analysis of what's going on15:12
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: number 4 offer15:31
DocScrutinizer053.60EUR, also 597 ;-)15:31
wpwrak_heh, that's the same stock then ;-)15:34
rohDocScrutinizer05: failing? i wonder that its still up16:29
DocScrutinizer05yeah, looks like16:29
rohmy guess: invalid certs... 16:29
rohvalidity time ran out or so16:30
DocScrutinizer05yep, my guess as well, but that's a server side issue, no?16:34
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: what did you do? you talked to Mr Brill? :-D16:36
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: when you suggest a camera I should get, you should also provide a exact spec you would suggest, since I have no idea how much this thing would cost16:37
wpwrak_hehe, i did ;-)16:56
wpwrak_both, actually :)16:56
wpwrak_the one i'm suggesting is actually fairly cheap, only some EUR 200 i think. the Canon ELPH 330 HS / IXUS 255 HS16:57
wpwrak_(canon have crazy naming)16:57
wpwrak_wos monster thunderstorm16:59
wpwrak_wow. at 2 pm. didn't see that one coming.17:02
whitequarkoh, fuck. apparently I need to sign a contract that I won't import over 1kEUR and over 31 kg per calendar month.17:20
whitequarkgah, I hate customs so much17:20
whitequarkgood thing though, the cnc machine is being packed!17:23
wpwrak_hehe :) http://byebyepie.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f9367fb8834017d4231a436970c-800wi17:32
wpwrak_now the thunderstorm is emphasizing on the "storm" aspect. at 2:30 pm. interesting. guess we netted ourselves a little tornado.17:35
kristian1auli felt a  little tornado passing oevr the apartment yday :-S17:36
kristian1auland driving a bije tought just minutes before arrive home17:37
kristian1aulnow i feel the bike needs a gyro :D17:37
wpwrak_;-)17:41
apeletelarsc: just to let you know, I submitted a couple of patches to have qi-kernel be the default kernel for the ben nanonote in openembedded:19:15
apeletehttp://lists.openembedded.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2014-January/093633.html19:15
larscok19:16
apeletelarsc: been reading about dma for mmc driver, trying to understand how it works19:25
apeletedoes the jz4770 example seems like a good starting point to you ?19:26
apeletehttps://github.com/gcwnow/linux/blob/jz-3.12/drivers/mmc/host/jzmmc/include/jz_mmc_dma.h19:26
larscno19:26
larscwe want to use the dmaengine API19:26
pcercuei_rm -rf https://github.com/gcwnow/linux/blob/jz-3.12/drivers/mmc/host/jzmmc*19:26
larsccheck the mxs-mmc.c19:27
larscdriver19:27
apeleteok19:27
larscthe important parts are dmaengine_prep_slave_sg19:31
larscand dmaengine_submit and dma_async_issue_pending19:32
apeletethanks, I'm going to read that code and about dmaengine operation19:38
mththe jz4770 mmc driver is only useful as an example of how not to do it19:39
mthI did clean up the setup parts, but the actual data transfers are still done poorly19:39
apeletemth: so it's just like the jz4740 udc driver we had; it's better than nothing I guess :)19:43
pcercuei_but you didn't push, right?19:43
mthapelete: not in this case, as the actual DMA is better done with the DMA engine like larsc said19:45
mthso the code will not look similar19:46
apeletemth: ok, good to know19:48
apeletepcercuei_: push what ?19:48
pcercuei_mth's code19:50
apeletehmm, not sure I understand, but I was just reading mth's code out of curiosity19:53
larsche asked mth if mth pushed his changes19:55
mthoh, that was directed to me?19:55
larscI assume19:56
mthI did push the setup and other cleanups, those are squashed into the commit19:56
pcercuei_ok19:56
pcercuei_I thought you had more pending19:56
mthI started on dma engine support for jz4770 once, but didn't get very far19:56
mthhttps://github.com/gcwnow/linux/commit/0a1be0ed302f2cb7f4c8a7b93402f1fcd102e1d019:57
mththis describes all the changes19:58
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: wait, 31kg? wasn't that the bogus weight for your CNC?20:54
DocScrutinizer05now you know why they titled it as being 31kg - they think one such package per month is enough ;-)20:55
DocScrutinizer05HAH! >>W. A.2014-01-07 10:50:22300.00 EUR<<20:57
DocScrutinizer05I guess I know who's that W. A.20:58
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: no, CNC actually weighs around 21kg which matches neither20:59
whitequark"actually" = according to remailer20:59
whitequarkbut I have a bunch of other stuff there. laminator, etc20:59
nicksydney_morning  / afternoon / night gents21:16
nicksydney_whitequark: what kind of laminator ?21:24
nicksydney_this kind of press machine looks good for heat transfer http://szmegatek.en.made-in-china.com/product/IqwxjoNHftRc/China-High-Pressure-Heat-Press-Machine.html  :)21:25
DocScrutinizer05~ugt21:26
wpwrak_(W.A.) guess i've been found out :)21:29
wpwrak_nicksydney_: no idea ;-) you keep on finding weird devices nobody has ever used for such things yet :)21:30
nicksydney_technically if i connect a micro USB connector for pin D+, D- and VBUS to a resistor and LED and when it is plug into the computer the LED will light up .. correct ?  http://ctrlv.in/28036421:30
nicksydney_wpwrak_: borderline between creativity and weirdo is very thin :)21:31
nicksydney_thought of making some micro usb pcb as i have few of those to learn how to solder them :)21:32
wpwrak_don't use D+/D- for that :) and you can't control ID, the 5th signal.21:36
wpwrak_one LED between VBUS and GND is fine. anything else needs a bit more intelligence.21:37
wpwrak_e.g., an MKL2x... :)21:37
nicksydney_need to read up on D+ and D-..thanks wpwrak_21:42
nicksydney_http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/do-it-yourself/edison.html SDCard sized intel :)23:03
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