#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2014-01-03

wpwrak_larsc: on moderation: http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/d9f98bb82400c8084925681722500aed.png00:13
DocScrutinizer05I think that sign means "fire in case of urinating"00:37
DocScrutinizer05which my relatives explained to me applies even for hay shelter00:39
wpwrak_your relatives had urine-activated explosives ? this explains a few things :)00:42
DocScrutinizer05yes, they been farmers00:43
whitequarkoh interesting00:43
DocScrutinizer05and I bet in the 70s they even had ammonia nitrate ferilizer in that barn00:43
whitequarkI bet farmers today have ammonia nitrate fertilizer00:44
whitequarkit's not like you can easily replace that00:44
DocScrutinizer05no, today this is lame stuff passivated with at least 30% innert materials00:44
whitequarkwell, you can still reprecipitate it00:44
DocScrutinizer05apropos ammonia nitrate: most amazing explosions been those where ferilizer fabs went BOOM, I think the detonation been audible a 120km away00:46
DocScrutinizer05and the crater been 80m wide and 30 deep, or sth00:46
whitequarkoh, yes, I'm aware. it's responsible for a bunch of the biggest non-nuclear explosions00:46
whitequarkI've had that stuff taught by a bunch of high school and uni teachers00:47
whitequarktaught to me*00:47
DocScrutinizer0525km away from the fab roofs lost their tiles00:53
DocScrutinizer05561 fatalities00:54
DocScrutinizer05125m*90m crater, 19m deep00:54
DocScrutinizer05the idiots mixed ammonianitrate with ammoniasulfate to create a non-explosive fertilizer, but it got solid as concrete in the silos. So the used... **explosives** to portion it, After 200,000 explosions they once day didn't get the mixture of sulfate to nitrate right00:57
DocScrutinizer054500 tons of fertilizer went partytime00:58
wpwrak_not bad. playing russian roulette and winning 200'000 times may get you a false sense of immortality.00:58
DocScrutinizer05the explosion been audible 300km far, not 12000:59
DocScrutinizer05exactly 80 years later: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosion_in_Toulouse01:02
wpwrak_by the way, i wonder if there are battery-less photovoltaic designs with AC output. there ought to be better ways to distribute the energy over 2 (?) cycles than with a frail battery.01:02
Action: DocScrutinizer05 googles frail01:03
wpwrak_"easily broken" :)01:03
DocScrutinizer05and which 2 cycles?01:04
DocScrutinizer05sure you usually can feed changing amount of energy/power into an AC grid. No problem01:05
wpwrak_ah, these apparently don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_micro-inverter01:05
DocScrutinizer05just your energy supplier will not love you01:05
wpwrak_i don't even want to feed the grid01:05
DocScrutinizer05without feeding it to the grid it seems to be pretty useless except for maybe cooking or heating01:07
DocScrutinizer05when you got no battery, you will regularly need backup fromn the grid to operate anything not completely brain-free01:08
DocScrutinizer05even a washing machine will not like a constantly changing power supply01:08
wpwrak_i was thinking of emergency power. e.g., fridges and water pumps may be fine01:09
DocScrutinizer05not really01:09
wpwrak_well, as long as you have enough power of course01:09
DocScrutinizer05a usual compressor fridge doesn't like frequent motor startups, or undervoltage01:09
DocScrutinizer05the motor might block and just heat up01:10
wpwrak_i guess with sufficient over-provisioning, the thing could be too cost-inefficient01:11
DocScrutinizer05eventually you can cook in your fridge01:11
wpwrak_yeah, we wouldn't want burning fridges01:11
DocScrutinizer05been there, seen my butter flow out of the fridge ;-P01:11
DocScrutinizer05strange scary feeling to open a fridge and it's like 40 or 50° inside01:12
DocScrutinizer05I'd almost call it a psychedelic moment01:13
wpwrak_i guess that would depend on what sort of things you have in the fridge as it goes supernova01:13
DocScrutinizer05well, I can tell you what you don't have in such fridge: ice cubes01:14
DocScrutinizer05the compressor system makes for an excellent heatpipe cooling the motor and heating the fridge inside01:15
DocScrutinizer05the compressor becomes the evaporator, and the evaporator becomes the condenser01:17
DocScrutinizer05the condenser stays what it ever been: warm01:17
DocScrutinizer05I guess modern fridges even exploit that effect for defrosting01:18
DocScrutinizer05you simply need to disconnect the starter capacitor01:18
DocScrutinizer05...or run the fridge on undervoltage01:19
wpwrak_hmm, scary01:19
DocScrutinizer05DAMN! http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax-Explosion01:26
wpwrak_hmm, and don't store gunpowder under your palace :)01:27
wpwrak_when going through this list, it seems that preparing for war is more dangerous than being at war :)01:28
DocScrutinizer05http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Minor_Scale_test_explosion.jpg  has a certain aesthetic01:45
wpwrak_i want that for next year's fireworks :)01:47
whitequarklol @ that codename01:47
whitequarkminor scale for sure01:47
DocScrutinizer05http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosion_in_der_West_Fertilizer_Company  last ammonianitrate incident01:58
DocScrutinizer05whitequark: similation of a really minor scale tiny atomic bomb02:00
whitequarkI know02:00
DocScrutinizer054kT is about as small as atomic devices get02:00
DocScrutinizer05I think the backpacker bomb is adjustable from 5..15kT02:01
DocScrutinizer05dunno about those 12" atomic projectiles02:02
DocScrutinizer05The amount of energy released by fission bombs can range from the equivalent of just under a ton of TNT, to upwards of 500,000 tons (500 kilotons) of TNT.[8]02:13
JewFro297Whatabout antimater bombs?02:21
DocScrutinizer05sounds pretty silly03:12
DocScrutinizer05only military can invest money into this03:13
nicksydneyDebugging network stack is like walking on a road of broken glass04:49
nicksydneyespecially if the device you are working on doesn't have serial port :(04:53
nicksydneycompile <-> flash <-> view log <-> rinse and repeat 04:53
Action: whitequark is currently debugging an allocator05:07
whitequarkit's like walking on broken glass, except it's sharp metal shavings and is on fire.05:08
nicksydneywrong things at the right place and vice versa will surely incinarate you badly 05:12
whitequarkthankfully I use a memory-safe language. so *after* this I will hopefully never ever encounter this class of problems again05:13
nicksydneywhitequark: lucky :)05:16
nicksydneyOpen Source Spartan 6 FPGA Board --- http://numato.cc/content/saturn-another-attempt-make-open-source-spartan-6-fpga-board-ddr-sdram 05:17
nicksydneyi notice that in boards that have (SD)RAMs like this one http://www.pinterest.com/pin/292522938266944802/ ... the traces are wiggly .. any reason why this is like that ?05:19
whitequarkyou want the signal to arrive at the same time at all pins, hence you make trace length the same05:20
nicksydneyso that means if each trace is 2mm is length and to save space it is made wiggly ?05:23
nicksydneywooho...my first auto correct using qi-bot :)05:23
whitequarknot quite sure where you got the 2mm from05:24
whitequarkbut the general idea is right, I think05:24
nicksydneyyeah i'm referring to general term not specific for 2mm measurement05:26
nicksydneyis that also why there are lots of capacitors to make sure there is no loss of signal ?05:28
whitequarkI wouldn't quite know that. ask wpwrak_ or DocScrutinizer05 05:29
nicksydneyI suppose wpwrak_ or DocScrutinizer05 must be sleeping :)05:30
nicksydneyhttp://www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/computer-circuit-board.html -> hardcore porn05:31
nicksydneyfound a good site that will calculate and draw up schematics for LED array http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz ... good for newbie like myself :)05:46
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: 12, 3.8, 200, 9   -- then do same with *11V*, 3.8V... !08:58
DocScrutinizer05led.wiz is fine, but not easy to use08:58
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: for the meanders - they are for delaying signals. E.g you want t data-ready signal to arrive later at a chip than the data in the data lines09:18
DocScrutinizer05and as whitequark said, you want all data bits to arrive same moment, thus the traces have to have same propagation delay, even when they are maybe different length. So you add length and thus delay to the fast short ones09:21
DocScrutinizer05in designs beyond maybe 100MHz this starts to become relevant09:21
DocScrutinizer05btw EE are awesome, they design that stuff without any tests. Usually you do all that propagation delay matching based only on calculations and experience, no test equipment and measurement and metering tools like scopes included09:35
wpwrak_chances are that measuring would be a PITA anyway ;-)10:42
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: "12, 3.8, 200, 9   -- then do same with *11V*, 3.8V... !" ... not sure what those numbers are 11:25
nicksydneywpwrak_: had a first crack at using autorouter on kicad :)11:25
nicksydneywpwrak_: when i tell the auto router not to use the bottom layer it keeps on trying to autoroute on the front layer and it could not stop goes in a loop ... :)11:26
nicksydney30C3: Hardware Attacks, Advanced ARM Exploitation, and Android Hacking (EN)  --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fYPtByBY-s ... hardware hacking for sofware people..... this is easy for people like myself to follow :)11:27
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: those numbers are for http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz11:28
nicksydneyahhh ok ... yeah..cool thanks 11:29
wpwrak_nicksydney: the kicad autorouter is worse than useless :)11:29
DocScrutinizer05and for a hypothetical car rear light11:29
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: HAHA11:30
nicksydneywpwrak_: it's a good start for me to learn how to make it more neat .. i'm messy when it comes to laying out tracks11:31
nicksydneywhen people mention Windows 7 i always almost puke .. don't know why 11:32
wpwrak_nicksydney: well, kicad also has an auto-placer. that one is even worse than the autorouter.11:32
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: get eagle free trial version11:32
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: i have eagle..but i want to go the full open source way like wpwrak_ :)11:32
DocScrutinizer05autoplacer ROTFL11:32
wpwrak_DocScrutinizer05: just because you're trapped in proprietary purgatory (not quite hell, but close), doesn't mean others have to choose that path :)11:32
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: please don't try to learn stuff from kicad autorouter!11:32
DocScrutinizer05kicad hardly can teach you *anything* about correct EE business11:33
wpwrak_i find routing has the following phases: 1) confusion: all the parts are somehow where you don't want them, the signals are on the wrong side of things, and so on11:34
DocScrutinizer05it's hard enough to make it do the right thing when you already know what#s decent EE work11:34
wpwrak_2) a hope for order: when you move things to better places, reassing signals, etc.11:34
nicksydneywpwrak_: for the 0805 LED I have reuse the qi library 0805 and make the pad just a tad bigger so it's easier for me to solder :)11:35
nicksydneyi still have a LOOONG way to learn on doing routing correctly11:36
wpwrak_3) spaghetti hell and gradual claustrophobia: while a few things route nicely, lots of others get in the way. also, when you're about to add that last trace at a difficult spot, you find there's not enough room.11:36
nicksydneywhen become better will move to a better tool11:36
nicksydneywpwrak_: (point 3) AGREE !11:36
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: one fndamental rule I can offer for you: contemporary PCB layout style is not always the really smartest thing you can find. For example there's usually NO reason to keep all traces in a sub-millimeter width11:37
wpwrak_4) the zone: all of a sudden it all falls into place. you see with perfect clarity how that board is meant to be routed. do not sleep, do not eat, do not shower. get it done before the moment is lost.11:37
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: so than why a lot of design are with sub-mm traces ?11:38
nicksydneywpwrak_: (point 4) ... if i don't shower ..mrs going to kick me out of the house :)11:38
DocScrutinizer05because nowadays designers are used to do that11:38
wpwrak_5) perfectionism: you find small imperfections and mistakes, often only after printing, that you then correct. by doing that, you learn your design even better and will be able to return to the zone later on with only a small effort.11:38
nicksydneyoh another trick i learn now is to print out on paper and try the component on it :)11:39
nicksydneyi was thinking of gluing the small component to see how it looks :)11:39
DocScrutinizer05and particularly, tools like eagle and kicad have that default11:39
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: yeah.....even printing on paper to look at those traces i have to take off my glasses....damn small traces :)11:39
DocScrutinizer05it's usually silly to make traces smaller than "needed"11:40
DocScrutinizer05there's nothing wrong with a trace 5mm wide11:40
nicksydneymy new  "ugly" design of the LED http://ctrlv.in/27859911:40
DocScrutinizer05unless you don't have enough space to do that11:40
wpwrak_printing is good. by the way, fped's postscript output includes a 1:1 version for just that purpose: that you can place components on the footprint and see whether they fit. useful especially for complicated electromechanical parts11:40
nicksydneycombination of auto-routing and manual11:41
DocScrutinizer05your design could use traces 5 times as wide as they are11:41
DocScrutinizer05easier to print, to etch, to solder11:41
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: yeah...i want to make it smaller to practise soldering with small traces so i can do it for anelok later on11:41
wpwrak_DocScrutinizer05: (wide trace) toner transfer sometimes acts up if you have large copper areas. but yes, chances are people simply use the parameters they've used the last time, without thinking much11:41
DocScrutinizer05the latter not always applies11:41
nicksydneyone thing i was really surprised that i was able to do with kicad was selecting a pad as a module and assigning it's NET as 5v or GND I can use it as a power pad and connect the trace too :)11:42
nicksydneysmall thing like that make me smile..hahahaha11:43
nicksydneyalways excited to find something new to learn11:43
DocScrutinizer05but particularly for hand soldering you worry less about thermal isolation pads and heatsink to huge planes of copper, you rather worry about sub-mm wide traces coming off when you solder on them11:43
wpwrak_careful with traces under LEDs: did you check you can actually do that ? some have asymmetric pads that block the middle (e.g., my beloved LTST C190-Kxxx)11:43
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: yup...soldering with those traces is a skill would like to hone if possible :)11:44
nicksydneywpwrak_: not sure what you mean by block the middle ?11:45
nicksydneywpwrak_: this is what my led looks like http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00LCjQtOEaIkpu/0805-White-SMD-LED.jpg11:45
DocScrutinizer05btw all your pads look terribly optimized for high density layout and reflow soldering11:45
DocScrutinizer05almost impossible to solder by hand11:46
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: good point ... in screen it looks decently big but didn't think about that ... let me print it out and see how it small it is11:46
DocScrutinizer05generally you *always* want pads to be way "longer" than the SMD component11:46
wpwrak_(middle) okay, that's good then. i meant things like this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LTST-C191KRKT/160-1447-1-ND/38683611:47
DocScrutinizer05I.E. when the component is a 0603 then the pads use an aread of maybe 120311:47
wpwrak_or, even worse (but that oddly doesn't correspond to the ones i have): http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LTST-C190KRKT/160-1436-2-ND/38681711:48
wpwrak_DocScrutinizer05: they're optimized for reflow but still with manual soldering in mind. so there's that extra 0.1 mm here and there that makes it doable11:48
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: the rationale being: you should easily touch the *pad* with your solder tip11:48
DocScrutinizer050.1mm is stingy11:49
wpwrak_hmm, i'd touch both parts, as close ot the joint as possible11:50
DocScrutinizer05make that 1.0mm and we talk11:50
wpwrak_yes, i didn't leave a lot of room. the spacing is meant to be efficient.11:50
wpwrak_(layout) seems that you could have a ground ring in the middle. and if you turn the Rs by 90 deg, the 5V connection would just be a straight line11:51
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: seems one best practice is to coat the pad with solder, then place the component on top and heat the pad (and only the pad) until solder melts and component gets fixed11:51
wpwrak_agreed on the coating. i tend to try both items. well, unless things are so small that already the energy of the solder i'm adding will be enough to heat them up properly. 0402 basically doesn't need "full contact"11:52
wpwrak_#s/to try/to try to heat or touch/11:53
DocScrutinizer05honestly, that layout at http://ctrlv.in/278599 makes me dizzy11:53
wpwrak_that's what an autorouter who's very concerned about job security does :) "see, it's sooooo complex. only i could do that."11:54
DocScrutinizer05LOL yeah11:54
nicksydneyit is damn small .. DocScrutinizer05: 11:55
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: yeah it is dizzying :)11:55
DocScrutinizer05why isn't that one ring GND, with a dozen or some radials consisting of R and D, and an outer ring of V+ around that11:56
DocScrutinizer05wait a minute11:56
DocScrutinizer05nah, too lazy to do that in eagle now11:57
DocScrutinizer05had to create a new project for it11:57
DocScrutinizer05and why the heck are D6 and D9 *parallel*?11:59
wpwrak_do it in kicad :)11:59
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: those were drawn by autorouter11:59
DocScrutinizer05rather in dig11:59
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: that is a bug in circuit, definitely. You never ever parallel Diodes12:00
DocScrutinizer05(unless it#s a varicap)12:00
DocScrutinizer05diodes have physical properties that forbid connecting them in parallel12:01
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: will check the schematics12:02
nicksydneythe printer is acting up again .. it's print 1/2 the actual size :( damn it12:02
DocScrutinizer05printing 600dpi data to a 1200dpi laserprinter?12:05
DocScrutinizer05IOW your printer driver thinks the printer does draft, but the printer wants to do a decent job and is using fine resolution 1200dpi rendering?12:06
DocScrutinizer05that's what you get when each app has its own printerdriver, and the printer doesn't reset parameters between print jobs12:07
DocScrutinizer05or by sharing one printer between two computers or OSes12:08
DocScrutinizer05or - more generally - by simply not using the correct driver for the printer12:08
DocScrutinizer05when the driver is for a model that has no 1200dpi mode, the driver won't bother to set mode according to what the data it sends to printer12:09
DocScrutinizer05so you can switch printer to 1200 mode manually or with a nifty app that knows how to do that, but the standard driver has no clue about 1200 mode even being supported12:10
DocScrutinizer05much fun for weeks to come12:11
Action: DocScrutinizer05 recently curses gray level dithering rendering nearly every of the modern gray in gray websites illegible on paper printout - THANK YOU webdesigner-turdheads!12:14
DocScrutinizer05wasted ~1 dozen A4 sheets on trying to print http://www.schrack.at/shop/reiheneinbau-drehdimmer-500va-universal-ehdreh500.html, then gave up12:17
nicksydneydamn !12:18
nicksydneyit was working when printing anelok now it's playing up again12:18
wpwrak_if you've defeated the enemy once, that doesn't mean that you've won the war :)12:21
nicksydneyok it works now12:22
nicksydneyplaying around with the plot settings in kicad works ... for now 12:22
nicksydneywill see next time12:22
nicksydneygoing to make schematics like this http://ctrlv.in/278612 12:24
nicksydneyas per what the wizard has outlined..but seems like something is off in my schematics12:24
nicksydneyduh ! i made the series connection to parallel connection for the LED ... hahahaha...12:27
DocScrutinizer05and you defintely should go for solution1, version0 is idiotic12:28
DocScrutinizer05to see what I mean, use 4 LEDs 12:29
DocScrutinizer05then make it calculate the schematics and dimensions for 8.5V Vbatt12:30
nicksydneyyeah solution1 12:31
nicksydneywhat about 9v battery ?12:31
DocScrutinizer05you don't want to run 4 LEDs in series, with a series R that only has <=1V to do its regulation job12:31
DocScrutinizer05since the 2.0V for LED can vary12:32
DocScrutinizer05and when all 4 diodes cool down and go to maybe 2.2V out in the winter cold, you have 0.2V left for resistor12:33
DocScrutinizer05also same time your battery drops to 8V due to the cold outside12:34
wpwrak_it'll still kinda work :)12:34
nicksydneyso use semi-realistic value i guess12:34
DocScrutinizer05for the 3 LED series these changes are not critical12:34
DocScrutinizer05as a rule of thumb: at very least 20% of the Vbat should go for series resistor, max 80% for feeding the diodes. When you need to keep diodes at a constant brightness, make that 50%/50%12:36
DocScrutinizer05obviously the solution0 4LED-series design has only 1V of 9V across the resistor, while the rudimentary 2-diode-series add-on has 5V of 9V across the resistor12:37
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: will keep in mind that12:37
DocScrutinizer05so when your ambient temp changes, or your battery depletes, the 2-LED branch will stay same brightness while the 4-LED branches change brightness *massively*12:38
DocScrutinizer05toldya this calculator is simple to use but hard to use correctly12:39
DocScrutinizer05first approach use worst case voltage for Vbat, in that calculator12:40
DocScrutinizer05avoid assymetric designs like solution012:40
DocScrutinizer05thus I suggested you use 8V for Vbat and see what this calculator suggests then12:41
DocScrutinizer05when you want to operate LEDs at maximum (IOW when 20mA is absolute maximum rating for your LED type) then you should use maybe 17.5mA and 8V instead of 9V, in that calculator12:44
DocScrutinizer05the reduction in forward current from 20 to 17.5 compensates for the battery voltage possibly going to 9.5V instead of the 8V you use in the calculator12:45
DocScrutinizer05also LEDs or diodes in general may have a negative U/temp characteristics, meaning when the diode heats up, the forward voltage drops from 2.0V to maybe 1.9V or even lower12:47
DocScrutinizer05that's the reason why you can't parallel diodes12:47
DocScrutinizer05the hotter diode will draw more current due to lower V(fwd), and thus heat up even more, compared to the cooler diode12:48
nicksydneycool...make sense now DocScrutinizer0512:48
Action: DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders...12:54
DocScrutinizer05LOL, try "8.1V, 2V, 200mA, 4 LEDs"12:56
DocScrutinizer05guess what the series R will be ;-P12:57
DocScrutinizer05it's even incorrect at 1R, since that's good for only 100mA12:57
DocScrutinizer05it should be 0.5R, but that's obviously extremely silly12:58
nicksydneyi put 20ma instead of 200ma :)13:05
nicksydneyyeah 1 ohms13:05
DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/03/plasma-desktopxE3389.png (going a negligible 8.1->7.9V for Vbat)13:06
DocScrutinizer05>>the wizard thinks the power dissipated in your resistor is a concern<<13:06
DocScrutinizer05DocScrutinizer05 thinks the power dissipated in your resistor is inevitable in a proper design ;-P13:07
DocScrutinizer05though for a 200mA LEDs I'd already consider using a proper switched regulator insted of a simple series R design13:08
DocScrutinizer05unless efficiency of design is no concern13:08
nicksydneyif the led is say below 100mA do you also normally consider using switched regulator ?13:09
DocScrutinizer05usually not13:14
DocScrutinizer05depends, though13:14
DocScrutinizer05e.g for the backlight of a phone LCD i'd always design for maximum efficiency which means to not waste energy in series resistors13:15
DocScrutinizer05a buck boost converter does a better job for that13:16
DocScrutinizer05and that's exactly the way all LCD backlights in embedded are done13:16
DocScrutinizer05(going a negligible 8.1->7.9V) for 8.0 volt the calculator still suggests same nonsensical and incorrect 1R series to 4 LEDs13:19
nicksydneythe calculator will not tell you the correct story :) ... I guess it is telling us to use our human judgement 13:20
DocScrutinizer05I hope I made it to tell you the correct story13:21
nicksydneymuch better than before i hope http://ctrlv.in/278621 :)13:21
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: i believe human explanation than a calculator :)13:22
nicksydneywpwrak_: is it possible to change the track width for all the traces ?13:24
nicksydneyin kicad i meant13:24
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: well, better than before, as far as I can see13:25
DocScrutinizer05though sth fishy arounf D13, R3, D313:26
DocScrutinizer05and I honestly would place/number the LEDs strictly monotonic in clockwise counting from D1 .. D1613:27
DocScrutinizer05and make D1, D2, D3 one series couple, then D4, D5, D6 the next. Connect D1, D2, D3 in series to R1. D4,5,6 in series to R2, and so on13:29
nicksydneyok will try how the trace will look like if i put that way...initially was going to do that but i thought the auto trace is going to have a hard time laying the track13:31
DocScrutinizer05it looks like a bike wheel, with spokes, each spoke is a series of 1 R and 3 D13:32
DocScrutinizer05the hub is GND, goes to 6 R, then the Rs connect to 3 D each. The Ds are 3 next to each other, doing zigzag series connects. Then from most "outer" LED on each spoke it connects to the rim/ring which is V+13:34
DocScrutinizer05obviously the ring is outside of all Ds and Rs13:34
nicksydneymake sense..will arrange it13:39
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/03/plasma-desktoptZ3389.png14:38
DocScrutinizer05hi derRichard14:38
nicksydneyDocScrutinizer05: wow nice...14:38
derRichardcan i boot a custom kernel on the ben nanonote without flashing it to nand?14:39
nicksydneyi'm struggling at the moment why the netlist of my 5v cannot be read by PCBNew 14:39
DocScrutinizer05nicksydney: sorry, didn't find where to increase trace width ;-P14:39
DocScrutinizer05ok, this little fancy took almost an hour, but I'm still practicing how to handle Eagle14:41
derRichardokay, looks like i can using "xbboot -u "14:41
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak_: ben nanonote question14:41
nicksydneydon't understand why i delete those components inside PCBNew and now i'm having footprint errors !14:42
nicksydneycrap !14:42
nicksydneyok tomorrow will continue again...too late for me :)14:42
nicksydneythanks DocScrutinizer0514:42
derRichardsandpuppy:/opt/xburst/bin> sudo ./xbboot -u 0x80600000 /tmp/openwrt-xburst-qi_lb60-uImage.bin 15:06
derRichardInfo - found XBurst boot device.15:06
derRichardset_addr 80002000h15:07
derRichardany ideas?15:07
derRichardbulk_write successfully wrote 5660 bytes.15:07
derRichardstart1 80002000h15:07
derRichardError - get_info() returned -11015:07
derRicharderror -110 comes over and over15:07
mth110 is timeout iirc15:15
mthdo you have the Ben plugged into a USB hub by any chance?15:15
derRichardmth: directly plugged to my laptop. tried already two different usb cables15:16
derRichardi know that ben's usb is a mess. looks like it bites me again15:16
derRichardlater i'll try on a different computer15:18
derRichardmaybe ben hates my new laptop15:18
derRichardit has usb 3.015:19
larscyea, 110 is tricky, means it can see the other endpoint, but never gets a response15:25
derRichardlars: yeah. it really looks like my laptop is too new15:27
derRichardlater i'll try on an old ehci laptop15:27
rjeffrieswpwrak this may be mildly interesting. Or not. http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2014/01/02/anatomy-of-passwords/ and Happy New Year. The year of Anelok.15:39
wpwrak_rjeffries: hehe, that sounds a like a good motto :) happy year of anelok, too ! ;-)16:39
rjeffrieswpwrak how do things stand re power consumption of anelok?16:56
wpwrak_i'm measuring a few things. alas, it seems that my scope no longer wants to take screenshots :-(17:30
wpwrak_ah, i should try with a memory stick. maybe that still works ...17:30
wpwrak_of course, that would eb alot easier of memory sticks weren't made of elusium ... or is that ephimerium ?17:39
wpwrak_grnbl. not one of the bastards in sight anywhere.17:45
wpwrak_hmm. can't save screenshots to the USB stick either. this is increasingly ungood ...21:00
zrafa_wpwrak_: windows?21:06
wpwrak_rigol :(21:06
zrafa_wpwrak_: which of your machines is? :(21:08
wpwrak_the scope21:22
wpwrak_refuses to send screenshots as usb device. and writes garbage as usb host. seems that the communication subsystem is broken :(21:22
wpwrak_seems that i've finally gotten a good excuse for spending a ridiculous amount of money on a new scope21:31
wpwrak_now i just need the money :)21:31
larscmake a kickstarter campain21:35
wpwrak_the "get werner a new scope" campaign :)21:36
larscno no, "I want to build a super cool scope" campain21:39
wpwrak_ah yes, i want to do that, too. but just not yet :)21:39
viricit's only for the money21:42
larscexaclty, you don't have to build it now, just send out a couple of t-shirts21:43
wpwrak_hehe :)21:43
viricright. Maximum contribution, $10, and you get a t-shirt.21:44
viricbut be prepared. Maybe it will be hundreds of t-shirts21:44
nicksydneymorning all22:11
derRichardlarsc: i see the -110 (timeout) xbboot issue also on my old thinkpad :-\22:31
larscnoy good22:32
derRichardis "sudo xbboot -u 0x80600000 /PATH/TO/zImage.bin" correct? i took the command from the wiki22:32
derRichardmaybe the memory location is wrong22:32
derRichardor do i need special stage1/2 files?22:33
pcercueishouldn't you use jzboot?22:33
derRichardi have no idea. all i want is booting a kernel on my nanonote without flashing it to nand22:33
derRichardlarsc: updated xburst-tools-firmware. now it works :D23:26
derRichardlarsc: are you aware of the fact that sound/soc/jz4740/ does not even build in mainline? look like you broke with commit 25ce6c (MIPS: jz4740: Remove custom DMA API)23:51
derRichardstuff in sound/soc/jz4740/ still uses the custom dma crap23:51
--- Sat Jan 4 201400:00

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