#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2013-11-18

apeletemorning everyone09:40
sanderrMorning in the CET/UTC timezone. :)09:53
ysionnea1morning !09:54
whitequarksanderr: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html09:56
apeletecould seomeone help me with details about usb "host negotiation protocol (hnp)" ?10:07
apeleteexperiencing an issue that seems related to hnp -> http://paste.debian.net/66079/10:08
sanderrwhitequark: I like that time zone, UGT! :)10:09
larscapelete: I don't think on the jz4740 any otg stuff is supported11:35
whitequarkI think you don't need hw support for otg?11:38
whitequarkit's more or less a bunch of resistors and a set of rules for supplying the power in right states11:38
larscyou need hw support11:39
whitequarkoh, and a usb host. that's what's missing from jz4740 :)11:39
whitequarks,otg,hnp, in the first message11:40
larschnp needs special hardware11:40
larscit's a protocol for deciding who gets to be host when two otg devices are connected to each other11:41
larscwhat you mean is the ID pin11:41
whitequarkoh, HNP is a different thing? I see11:42
wpwrakHNP is what they added when they realized that it all looked too damn simple :)12:23
apeletelarsc: ok, that's what I thought by reading on the internet12:47
apeleteso the question is why does the nanonote is trying to use hnp12:47
apeleteand eventually how to prevent it from using hnp12:48
apeletethanks guys for the simple explanation12:49
DocScrutinizer05sanderr: UGT?13:02
DocScrutinizer05since infobot not here, I'll just say: good (UGT/JRTZV) morning13:03
sanderrDocScrutinizer05: Universal greeting time. :)13:07
DocScrutinizer05and JR TimeZoneVirtual13:13
Action: whitequark has posted the link already... joerg is lazy and doesn't read backlog ;)13:13
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: what the hell is jrtzv? zero google hits13:14
DocScrutinizer05that's not googleable because google searching on this planet only, not in virtual space dimension13:14
DocScrutinizer05JRTZV has a perod of ~40h, though with a huge amount of jitter that nobody has found a correct formula for so far13:15
whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: in russian, we have a nice idiom, >BAK?L [pour off], referring to the drugs the other party must be using, based on what they say :)13:17
DocScrutinizer05when you try to map JRTZV to any TZ usually used on SOL3, you will notice the interesting effect of backwarp, JRTZV magically warps up to match the local TZ with the first 24h and never reaches the hours around 30-40. However since it usually is 40h, it fails on the 24h target and has a scew of 2..5 h / 24h period13:19
DocScrutinizer05I bet the guys from SCP are already monitoring JRTZV for its effects on human life and reality on earth13:23
Action: DocScrutinizer05 just has developed the theory that JRTZV is mainly powered by caffeine13:36
Action: DocScrutinizer05 heads out to prepare another coffee13:36
whitequarkmayor of toronto: "yeah, I smoked crack, probably in one of my drunken stupors"15:31
whitequarka honest politician at last?15:32
whitequarkhope that'll give you much more people16:06
DocScrutinizer05just an additional 33% were already nice16:06
DocScrutinizer05making for our needed 200 "customers" "promising" to buy a device16:07
larsc"The German plot"16:11
larscthat sounds dangerous16:12
DocScrutinizer05"journalism's kinda scary and of it we should be wary..."16:25
DocScrutinizer05"wonder what became of Mary?"16:26
DocScrutinizer05Information is not knowledge16:29
DocScrutinizer05Knowledge is not wisdom16:29
DocScrutinizer05Wisdom is not truth16:29
DocScrutinizer05Truth is not beauty16:29
DocScrutinizer05Beauty is not love16:29
DocScrutinizer05Love is not music16:29
DocScrutinizer05Music is THE BEST . . .16:29
DocScrutinizer05Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct)16:29
DocScrutinizer05Beauty is a French phonetic corruption16:29
DocScrutinizer05Of a short cloth neck ornament16:29
DocScrutinizer05Currently in resurgence . . .16:29
whitequarkrelevant: http://www.sify.com/news/satiric-political-party-wins-council-poll-in-iceland-news-international-kf4wkdhfije.html18:30
wpwrak'We can promise more than the others, because we will in no way keep these promises,'  ... what's satiric about that ?18:47
larscwpwrak: they are honest18:55
wpwrak(german plot) it means great ambitions and resourceful protagonists :)19:00
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: EUR 500-700 just the PCBA or complete Neo900 ?19:01
DocScrutinizer05We won't reach <700 for complete device19:01
DocScrutinizer05unless we sell 1000+19:01
wpwrakah, that ought to be easy :)19:02
DocScrutinizer05a refurbished comlete N900 is ~110$19:02
DocScrutinizer05and we need to disassemble >=200 of them, and desolder unobtanium parts like SMIA95 sockets for camera etc19:03
DocScrutinizer05whcu makes for another 50EUR per device, for working hours19:03
DocScrutinizer05so complete device is about PCBA-¬ + 150¬19:04
DocScrutinizer05maybe even +200¬19:04
DocScrutinizer05or we find crap like the SMIA95-16p and other special parts, and also we can source *cheap display half and complete housing incl antennae etc19:05
wpwrakyou have to at least double any input costs. so the parts from that complete N900 will cost in the end some EUR 30019:24
wpwrakbut if you can avoid desoldering, that's much nice :)19:24
DocScrutinizer05yeah, it's all a nightmare21:29
DocScrutinizer05as expected21:29
DocScrutinizer05for some more bright entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ta7Mh9a_y821:29
DocScrutinizer05seems some watchers doubt it's real ;-)21:30
apeletemth larsc: fixed the kernel crash when the device is powered down and the musb driver is being released -> http://paste.debian.net/66488/21:45
larscgood :)21:47
larscwhat was it?21:47
apeletelarsc: musb gadget code was using host negotiation unconditionnally: I fixed it so that hnp is not used it the musb kernel module is compiled as gadget only21:55
apeletelarsc: something is still amiss when nanonote is connect to a usb host laptop -> http://paste.debian.net/66496/22:11
larsclooks like a NULL pointer deref22:12
apeletekernel is not crashing upon being connected, but device is not detected as an ethernet device and the kernel crashes when it is powered down22:13
apeletelarsc: yeah looks like it, guess I have to wield gdb on this one22:14
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: (wired) you don't need to state in every post that you're a professional :-)22:29
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I already noticed that it's probably a bit over the top22:30
DocScrutinizer05maybe I shouldn't answer each pst anyway22:30
DocScrutinizer05It's just I feel allergig when noobs and wannabes try to educate me about how stuff works22:33
wpwraki wonder if it would make sense to add taps to the SIM card. e.g., to monitor what it's doing and maybe even to have the option to cut communication.22:34
wpwrakmaybe something to discuss with those SIM card hackers.22:34
DocScrutinizer05particularly when they point to other similarly noobish and made up "documents" and claim that was the source of absolute truth and we better read THAT to finally get a clue how stuff works22:34
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: believe it or not, it's already on my todo list22:35
wpwrakkewl ;-)22:35
DocScrutinizer05btw since 2009 iirc22:35
wpwrakhmm, now i have to ask what is on the list: adding the taps or talking to the SIM card hackers ? :)22:36
DocScrutinizer0512-Nov-2009 19:48 22:37
DocScrutinizer05adding taps22:37
wpwrakexcellent :)22:38
DocScrutinizer05http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/gta04.pdf  > >later module firmware update can enable multi­SIM operation .SIM control and data lines should be Y­routed to CPU GPIO for debug purposes. [see 9. Dual­SIM]<<22:39
DocScrutinizer05>>selected by CPU, and vice versa).22:41
DocScrutinizer05SIM­datalines to multiplexer of GSM­module should also be monitored and controllable by 22:41
DocScrutinizer05CPU GPIO, for purposes like e.g. SIM­protocol analysis and Remote SIM­Access­Profile 22:41
DocScrutinizer05via BlueTooth handled by CPU.<<22:41
DocScrutinizer05the GTA04 OM skunkworks project, you know?22:42
wpwrakheh :)22:44
wpwraknow let's see if any other press comes knocking at your door22:46
apeletelarsc: thought the crash was due to the rndis driver being built into kernel but it wasn't22:51
apeletedoesn't like that "g_ether gadget: notify connect false" though, seems suspicious to me -> http://paste.debian.net/66507/22:52
apeletegetting late to start gdb debugging, will look into that tomorrow22:53
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: (any other press) I already sent a notice to c't redaction 2 weeks ago and they conveniently ignored it23:39
wpwrakbah, loosers. well, maybe they read "wired" :)23:40
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