#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2013-10-11

kyakand i don't understand why you care so much08:57
kyakif you can explain, maybe i'll whitelist cookies, too :)08:57
whitequarkadvertisers' cookies essentially can vacuum up your browser history very efficiently09:03
whitequarkthen they compose a portrait of you, which they use to display targeted ads and also sell to whomever wants it09:03
whitequarknon-advertisers can also do that to tailor search results based not on just query but on the portrait as well ("bubble")09:07
whitequarkthough I only know of search engines doing that. essentially, Google displays not what you need but what you want to see.09:07
viricwhat they want you to see09:09
whitequarkwhat will maximize their profit.09:09
viricbut linked with NSA...09:10
kyaki don't mind that, i guess.. I always search google when i logged in anyway09:11
virictheir profit may be related to fiscal advantages, in interchange with NSA for data09:11
viricas snowden explained.09:11
viricyou share data with the government, you pay less taxes.09:11
kyakyeah, i notice that if i searched for a new fridge, i will then see fridges everywhere09:12
kyakbut i don't care.. why would i care?09:12
viricthen you have the trade of data between governments secret services...09:12
whitequarkkyak: try searching for herpes09:12
kyakwhitequark: only if i really need :)09:12
viricand finally you get FSB at your door09:12
whitequarkthe motivation here is more or less the same as motivation for privacy in general09:12
kyakit doesn't have to do with privacy09:13
kyakwhat i do in internet is not private09:13
kyakso why hide?09:13
virickyak: because you think you publish less than what you publish09:13
whitequarkviric: I don't think Google's bubble is politically motivated, at least for now09:13
kyaki maybe even like targeted ads :)09:13
viricwhitequark: snowden showed the fiscal advantages to companies that collaborate.09:13
kyakviric: i publish less than i have on my HDD?09:14
virickyak: you start with this thinking, and you end up that the Big Brother improves your safety.09:14
viricthinking taht.09:14
whitequarkviric: sure, what I mean is that they don't *filter* results based on someone else's instructions09:14
whitequarkat least silently09:14
viricwhitequark: ah, no. I mean they simply sell their fingerprinting09:15
whitequarkGoogle doesn't sell it to third parties, though to NSA maybe.09:15
viricI meant NSA, yes.09:15
whitequarkkyak: HDD doesn't matter09:16
kyakviric: people on the street can learn so much more about you by just looking at you. Are you concerned about your privacy in the street?09:16
whitequarkby algorithmically processing your behavior, it's possible to figure out facts you never shared explicitly, or wanted to09:16
whitequarke.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/09:17
kyakwhitequark: by following you in the street, it is possible to find out much more09:17
whitequarkkyak: following you in the street is a) costly b) easy to detect09:17
virickyak: all they know about you can be later used against you. For example, they may know what you cannot prove, when they face you with a false accusation.09:17
whitequarkfollowing you in the internet is a) cheap b) next to impossible to detect or circumvent09:17
viricLike they could do with Navalny09:18
kyakwhitequark: really? do you know how many cameras are in the street? They have a 24hour footage of you every day :)09:18
kyakyou hiding cookies just sound funny09:18
kyakthinking it would improve "privacy"09:19
whitequarkkyak: to begin with, it would09:19
viricyou can try the evercookie :)09:19
whitequarkthen, on the street, yeah--though it is far from being cheap or easy to use, and is only true for some cities in some countries09:20
viricyou have the positioning by mobile phone antennas, if you use them09:21
viricit depends on what do you prefer to keep hidden.09:21
viricAnd about internet... it's much easier to avoid the disclosure of private data in internet, than on street.09:21
viricSo if it is easy, you better avoid the disclosure. You never know when that will be used against yo.09:22
whitequarkviric: I doubt that09:22
kyakit is much more probable that authorities will get information about you from their own sources (they have plenty of governmental databses), your internet provider etc, than from your cookies.. 09:22
viricdoubt what?09:22
whitequarkkyak: I don't care very much about authorities09:22
kyakseriously, you are giving yourself a safe sense of privacy09:22
viricwell, we have to add that it gives a relief to act as a secret agent09:23
viricyou have to enjoy the fun of that game, because it is set for you to play it.09:23
kyakwhitequark: ok, in this case the only way these companies can profit from you is if you give them your money09:23
whitequarkkyak: that's... just not true at all09:24
whitequarkcompanies can profit from you a lot even if you will never give them money at all. case in point: facebook09:24
kyakwhat's up with that?09:24
whitequarkviric, kyak: (and I personally don't hide cookies, by the way. but, whatever)09:24
whitequarkkyak: hm?09:24
viricWe need people playing the secret agent game09:25
kyakwhitequark: how they profit from you by watching your cookies?09:25
viricBecause otherwise, anyone not hiding the cookies, will be suspect.09:25
whitequarkkyak: google "ad retargeting", for example09:25
kyakwhitequark: the aim of ads is your money09:25
viricIt's like https. Luckily, https is spread. Otherwise, using ciphering for https would raise suspicion.09:25
whitequarkkyak: the companies which show me ads don't profit from me.09:26
virickyak: yes, and the government wants your well being and safety too.09:26
kyakthey will show you ads with or without cookies09:26
whitequarkviric: https is not exactly secure09:26
viricwhitequark: you can have secure things over https09:27
whitequarkit takes one compromised CA for being able to MITM everything09:27
viricwhich does not mean any https is secure09:27
kyakviric: the government doesn't care about me, but i don't understand what it has to do with cookies. .seriously09:27
virickyak: it's about not accepting any step back09:27
virickyak: you could say the same about the FOSS. "A bit of non-FOSS doesn't hurt"09:27
viricand you end up running skype in an android factory-flashed phone09:28
virickyak: you should be ashamed, that the government doesn't care about you ;)09:28
kyakviric: no, it's a about your convenience. Convenience (for me) is much more above FOSS. It is, however, possible that i might feel inconvenientwhen using non-FOSS. But it only proves that convenience is above FOSS09:29
whitequarkconvenience and security are two ends of an one spectrum09:29
viricTatcher said: you only have to make happy two thirds of the people. You win ellections, and you can fuck one third to make the two-thirds feel over average.09:30
viricthat's also called fascism. Kick off a minority for advantage of the majority. But it works, and it's convenient for most of the population.09:31
kyakincorrect, you only need to make happy 51% of those who actually came to vote :)09:31
viricthis reaches godwin soon.09:31
kyaktaking about 30-35% attendance, it's much less09:32
whitequarkattending population does not necessarily represent views of it as a whole09:32
kyaksure, sure09:33
viricwhitequark: but that doesn't matter, in terms of governing09:34
whitequarkviric: it's a quantitive difference, yes09:34
viricHave you seen this tox.im thing, btw?09:36
kyakviric: juts wondering, do you use cookie whitelisting yourself?09:36
virickyak: yes, with the cookie monster09:36
viricbut that's only *one* fingerprinting technique.09:36
kyakviric: do you have JS disabled?09:37
viricNot always.09:37
viricoften not.09:37
kyakcan you give a link to that cookie omnster?09:38
viricit's a firefox plugin, named that way09:38
kyakmy google bubble will now suggest that i'm a fan of that blue creature :009:38
kyakok, it's interesting09:40
kyaki might use it for blacklisting :)09:40
viricthat will give you a false sense of security09:40
kyakthough i don't know what i'dd like to blacklist09:40
whitequarkthere's ghostery for blacklisting09:40
whitequarkit's closed-source and, well, blacklisting. I have it installed because it kills annoying stuff, but don't rely on it.09:41
viricI also use privoxy09:41
kyaki think i used to use adblock or something.. but at some point of time i got rid of it09:42
viricprivoxy doesn't make your browser slow09:42
kyak"obnoxious Internet junk" :)09:44
kyakthe author seems to be pissed off09:44
whitequarkviric: adblock doesn't either?09:44
viricwhitequark: it did for me. but I have quite slow computers :)09:45
--- Sat Oct 12 201300:00

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