#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2013-09-20

DocScrutinizer05hi qi-bot00:11
wpwrak10 dBm tx output ? that works fine with an antenna00:15
DocScrutinizer05but RX doesn't seem to be built like a decent RF receiver, rather like a probe tool01:53
larscanybody ever built a FM radio?07:45
viricno, but we had to study it at the university :)07:46
larscI'm just looking for tips how to design the filter to get out just the mono channel07:48
larscmy inital appraoch is to just set attenuation from 0 to 15kHz to 0dB and from 23kHz on to -50dB or so07:49
larscat 19 kHz is the 'pilot tone'07:50
larscdon't know if that's going to be a problem07:51
viricI think that I can't help07:51
viricI don't remember such pilot tone.07:51
larscIt's for stereo07:55
rohlarsc: maybe old datasheets of mpx decoders can help you08:44
rohsomething like this one http://www.bucek.name/pdf/tda1591.pdf08:46
rohand maybe kravitnik.narod.ru/dtsheet/amplifier/TDA1596.pdf08:48
larschm, ok. thanks08:59
viriclarsc: are you giving your vote to non-germans? :)12:30
larscwhat do you mean?12:31
larscnah, my vote is not for sale12:35
viriceh eh, for free. not for sale. :)12:35
larscI think the parliamentary democracy has probably failed anyway. One efficient way to abolish institutions is often to let them keep their shiny titles and stuff but take away any real power.12:41
larscE.g. the queen is still called the queen and in theory she still has executive power, but in practice it is newer used12:42
larscsame with the parliament, they can still vote on laws, but the laws are written by other people anyway and they get told upfront how to vote on a certain law12:43
viricisn't it similar to saying that 'laws have failed', because few people follow the laws?12:44
viricI think parliaments have found their procedures and decisions not to be auditable.12:45
viricI mean... they found how to proceed, while the general public not being able to audit them12:46
larsclaws have failed when they are not enforced or not enforceable, not when people don't follow them12:46
wpwraklarsc: so .. that would mean a pirate party vote ? they're the ones who have a mechanism for telling their representatives how to vote. still not quite a direct democracy, but one step in that direction. of course, they have "issues" elsewhere ...12:46
viriclarsc: yes, I meant that12:46
wpwrakmany laws aren't meant to be enforced. they are much more useful as threats.12:47
viricMost parliaments have argued that they need secrecy, or they would be in huge international disadvantage. That secrecy is often used against the public interest, though.12:47
viricAnd many people accepted the pretext for the secrecy.12:47
viricI think that without the secrecy, all could work better12:48
wpwrakviric: No Secretos, Amigo ;-)12:48
viricthat sounds like said by Terminator ;)12:48
wpwrakyeah. and i even have the right accent :)12:49
larscelections are a polularity contest, who can tell the most bullshit without overstepping it12:49
viricnevertheless, it's not like parliaments completely ignore the population they govern12:49
viricif so, it could be much worse. :)12:49
whitequarklarsc: I think the queen officially does not have any executive power.12:49
whitequarkisn't that in the constitution?12:50
wpwrakwhitequark: which queen ? (or is it "witch queen" ?)12:50
larscI think in belgium the king still has to sign all new laws12:51
whitequarkwpwrak: British?12:51
larsche refused to this for one law and they had his doctor declare him unfit for duty for 3 days and then passed the law again12:51
viricin Spain, the king signature is used to *bypass* some steps in law approval12:51
viricfor quick laws :)12:51
wpwrakwhitequark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_power#United_Kingdom12:54
viricspain is more old style. the king is the head of the army, and passes quick laws.12:55
wpwrakkinda like Joffrey Baratheon / Lannister12:55
whitequarkwpwrak: interesting12:55
whitequark>In 1999, Queen Elizabeth II, acting on the advice of the government, refused to signify her consent to the Military Action Against Iraq (Parliamentary Approval) Bill, which sought to transfer from the monarch to Parliament the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq.12:56
viricalso organizes the weapon trade abroad12:56
whitequarkso this is actually used for something important12:56
wpwrakwhitequark: and it's used even more in the colonies, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_power#Australia12:57
wpwrakespecially "On 11 November 1975, when the Australian Governor-General Sir John Kerr dismissed the Commonwealth Government."12:58
whitequarkyeah, I read about that case12:58
wpwrakmore toys :) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/parts-20130920.jpg17:09
wpwrakthe OLEDs are really tiny. very very thin.17:10
larscwent on a shopping spree?17:23
wpwrakparts for anelok :) (with a few plan B, C, D options. things are so cheap in china that you need to order extra items just to make it worth the shipping :)17:25
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/er-oled-fpc30.fpd: make pads 0.06 mm wider, 0.1 mm longer (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/1bed12218:04
rjeffrieswhen a version with the new Baytrail gen Atom cpu is avaialble, and maybe a bump to 2 GB RAM, Minnowboard will be interesting for some use cases. Very open, if I read this correctly. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/199-4-2-computer-is-intels-first-raspberry-pi-competitor/18:16
rjeffrieswpwrak: is first generation anelok device USB to laptop only (I think)? Then you may add an 802.15.4 radio + matching dongle for PC later? 18:20
rjeffriesasked this on mail list, no response (I think)...18:24
rjeffrieshas anyone looked at porting http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/ to Ben Nanonote? That is way beyond my knowledge. But it's an interesting concept. Different than Werner's (cool) anelok gadget.18:25
whitequarkrjeffries: um, it's windows-only?18:28
rjeffrieswhitequark: no there is a beta version for linux18:29
wpwrakdid you ? must have overlooked it :( i plan to have RF in there from the beginning. just won't make new dongles at first.18:30
rjeffriesbetter kink here: https://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html18:30
wpwrakthe prototypes, i need to have a more or less complete system. else, i won't be able to tell whether things will actually fit.18:30
rjeffriess/kink/link LOL18:31
pcercuei"Raspberry Pi competitor"18:34
pcercuei$199 vs $3518:35
pcercueiI don't call that a competitor18:35
whitequarkugh, GMA 60018:41
whitequarkafaik, intel's gma is a horrible piece of hardware they bought, which doesn't work well (or at all under linux), and which they can't open up because licensing or something18:41
larscnot 500?18:45
larscwell it's probably the same18:46
larscthere is a basic opensource driver in mainline written by an intel employee though18:46
pcercueiGMA is terrible yes18:49
whitequarklarsc: yeah, it also works like crap18:59
whitequarkvesa is probably better18:59
rjeffriescompared with Raspberry Pi (which I own and use and like) Minnowboard has disk i/o SATA2 and Gigabit Ethernet. With Baytrail ATOM (coming later) CPU power will be much better tha n RasPi19:05
wpwrakif you need all that CPU power ... :) (well, for video it's okay. most other things don't care)19:12
pcercueia Rpi is already okay for video19:19
pcercueiprovided you use hardware acceleration19:19
wpwrakhmm ... should anelok have a gold-metallic finish ? after all, apple is doing that now, so it's what everybody has to do, right ?19:23
larscneon pink please20:05
wpwrak"hello kitty" ?20:07
rohwpwrak: any ideas about the mechanics?21:08
rohmill positive, and the use casting residue and a negative silicone form?21:08
rohwould make switching colors easier ;)21:09
rohor use a protocase with battery holder? (boring looks)21:09
wpwrakthis needs a custom case. and a custom battery holder ... but i can fake the latter :)21:32
wpwrakand i can't properly mill positive. otherwise, i'd just mill everything.21:32
wpwrakso my idea is to mill negative, then cast21:33
wpwrakmy limitations for milling positive: 1) my mill flexes in the Z direction. relative Z positions (cut to cut) are fine, but absolute positions or air to cut have about +/- 0.5 mm of tolerance21:34
wpwrak2) if i have to flip the piece, i get a positioning and angular error. angular error is small if i'm careful but positioning can be about 0.5-1 mm21:37
wpwrakthe top shell could be milled with a completely flat side (though it would be nice to have rounded edges), but the bottom shell is more complex21:38
wpwrakif all else fails, i could just direct-mill a two piece case with flat top and bottom. at least for a rough prototype, this would be sufficient.21:40
wpwrakbut it would of course be nicer if the case was properly done21:40
wpwrakfor casting, my idea is to make molds of polyethylene, then cast polyester21:41
wpwraki have a nice rear terrace with good natural ventilation and nobody nearby to notice the smell. thinking of it, i should probably cook meth there. at least they make it look very easy on "breaking bad" ;-)21:43
wpwrakit seems that polyester has enormous shrinkage, so that may be a problem. have to see how that goes. maybe it's enough to just have a large enough "backup" in the mold's entry. maybe not.21:45
wpwraksome say that epoxy is a bit nicer in general but it seems that it's just as bad when it comes to shrinkage21:46
wpwrakthe best appears to be polyurethane, BUT ... it seems that air bubbles are a big problem there, you have to work very quickly, it really hates humidity (perfect for the semitropical climate i have here), it's expensive (compared to polyester), and - worst of all - it seems to be virtually non-existent in the local market21:48
rohwpwrak: i see.. lots of fun problems22:48
rohthat bubble-stuff is something you can fix22:48
rohuse a air-compressor..22:48
rohun-bubble it.. ive seen videos about that22:48
wpwrakyes, with a vacuum chamber. nice and pricey :)22:56
rohi was just milling a load of frontpanels yesterday and today... so.. if you got some proper model and have a toolpath-gen which can output gcode.. i can mill down some stuff22:57
rohor do something crazy like joerg and reuse a mobile phone case ;)22:58
rohmight also be a good 'hiding place' ... then it looks unsuspicious22:59
wpwrakyou could always say it's an MP3 player :)23:04
wpwrak(milling) thanks ! i'm not quite there yet. first the electronics ...23:04
rohyour programming rigs look really nice. congrats23:05
rohjust clicking pics23:05
wpwrakthanks :) and all just MDF. doesn't get any cheaper, as far as raw materials are concerned :)23:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/ops.c (tool_comp_paths): don't crash if path list is empty (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/44d58a523:32
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/gerber.c: crudely support some cases of G03 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/7aaaf8623:32
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/tswa.fpd: add more measurements (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/4e1038923:33
--- Sat Sep 21 201300:00

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