qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: sent User-Agent to "dsv/1.0" (instead of Wget/...) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/3256b03 | 15:01 |
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wpwrak | grmbl. s/sent/set/ | 15:01 |
larsc | have you found some website that blocks wget? | 15:21 |
wpwrak | yes. digi-key, of all places | 15:21 |
cde | facT: evil scientists use wget | 15:57 |
cde | so digi-key is making humanity safer | 15:57 |
larsc | your mom uses wget! | 16:13 |
whitequark | that was unexpected | 16:17 |
whitequark | larsc: by the way, did you like SML? | 16:17 |
whitequark | I'm now using lots of OCaml and it's great; SML strikes me as way too oversimplified and academic | 16:17 |
larsc | yea, SML is a language made for teaching | 16:18 |
whitequark | and for writing compilers | 16:18 |
larsc | but to be honest I didn't follow the course through completely | 16:22 |
whitequark | I think I abandoned it after a week. | 16:24 |
whitequark | coincidentally, it took about a week to learn 90% of commonly used OCaml, so it was probably a good idea to not waste time. | 16:24 |
wpwrak | hmm .. where to host the pwsafe project ? qihw (in DE) or github in (the US), this is the question ... | 18:41 |
whitequark | there's also gitorious in norway | 18:43 |
whitequark | but I'd say github. | 18:43 |
whitequark | they don't lock you in, so even if they do something nasty, it doesn't matter very much... | 18:43 |
larsc | if you want to go the free software way gitorious | 18:43 |
Action: whitequark coughs | 18:44 | |
larsc | why? | 18:44 |
whitequark | well, you were implying that github is "not FOSS way", and I understand your reasons | 18:45 |
larsc | well gitourious is AGPL | 18:45 |
larsc | github closed source | 18:45 |
wpwrak | yeah, gitorious would be the 3rd choice. haven't used them yet. let's see what they have ... | 18:45 |
larsc | so if you want to make a point about free software use gitorious | 18:46 |
larsc | if you just want a place to host your stuff use github | 18:46 |
whitequark | gitorious is ok, but they didn't put a lot of work into UI. | 18:47 |
whitequark | depends on whether you actually want to use their website/issue tracker/etc or just leave files lying in git. | 18:48 |
larsc | it's opensource fit it ;) | 18:48 |
larsc | fix | 18:48 |
wpwrak | i'm also thinking of things like commit notifications in IRC. qihw has them. github as well, though some say they're not so nice. (they may mean the join/leave noise) | 18:48 |
whitequark | wpwrak: you can disable the noise | 18:48 |
larsc | I think you can even setup custom scripts | 18:48 |
larsc | for commit hooks | 18:49 |
whitequark | there's some combination of flags on freenode which solves that | 18:49 |
larsc | so you could send the update to qi-bot | 18:49 |
wpwrak | whitequark: yes, but then you need to set up the channel to allow messages from the outside | 18:49 |
whitequark | I think you can permit that only for GH? | 18:49 |
whitequark | not sure though | 18:49 |
wpwrak | larsc: i'd love to just pick something that works :) | 18:49 |
whitequark | larsc: there's also http://gitlab.org/ | 18:49 |
whitequark | which would be my choice :) | 18:49 |
larsc | wpwrak: ah come on, where is your spirit? | 18:50 |
wpwrak | summer is coming. today it's 35 C. the air is full of pollen, because natures feels the spring. technically, it's of course still winter. so yeah, there's the spirit, a mix of hay fever, hibernation, and lazy siestas | 18:52 |
Action: whitequark . o O ( winter is coming ) | 18:52 | |
whitequark | wpwrak: you lucky southern hemisphere bastard! | 18:53 |
whitequark | wait. I just realized that if I fly to the opposite hemisphere each 6 months, I can have an eternal summer | 18:53 |
larsc | today was the first day I wished I had packed a headband for my way home from work | 18:53 |
larsc | whitequark: or eternal winter ;) | 18:54 |
Action: whitequark shudders | 18:54 | |
larsc | I want to have eternal early summer | 18:54 |
larsc | 24 degree C and I'm happy | 18:54 |
larsc | but it is cooling down fast, it still was over 30 degree on saturday and about 15 today | 18:56 |
wpwrak | yeah, the time right after the pollen would be good. or maybe a warm winter day, not more than 25 C, no pollen, no gnats, ... | 18:58 |
larsc | so yea winter is comming (funny how everybody now knows that phrase) | 18:58 |
larsc | warm winter day is -10 ;) | 18:59 |
wpwrak | hmm, a really cold day in buenos aires is slightly below 0 C at dawn | 19:00 |
larsc | ok, where do I have to sign up? | 19:01 |
wpwrak | but we also have winter days that are above 20 C during the day and in the mid-10 at night. that's not so bad. you still need a jacket if you go out in the evening, but it's quite tolerable | 19:01 |
wpwrak | tell your boss you want to telework more :) | 19:01 |
larsc | he probably won't like that | 19:02 |
whitequark | no one would probably mind if I relocate to BA, but I'm somewhat hesitant | 19:03 |
larsc | sometimes I wish I was a webdeveloper or something, only thing you need is your laptop and your head | 19:04 |
whitequark | larsc: if you're a web developer, you don't need your brain anymore. | 19:04 |
whitequark | that's for certain. | 19:04 |
larsc | I used to be a web developer | 19:05 |
larsc | (when I was 14) | 19:05 |
whitequark | same here | 19:05 |
wpwrak | as web developer, you'll need your laptop, your head, and a real job :) | 19:05 |
whitequark | (but I was there longer, I think) | 19:05 |
whitequark | :D | 19:05 |
larsc | wpwrak: it's funny but some of these jobs actually pay really well | 19:06 |
wpwrak | well, there are actually such jobs here. they recruit people who just left university, preferably within getting a diploma, pay them shit, then sell their services to clients abroad. that works pretty well | 19:07 |
wpwrak | and those that pay well ... of course every lottery has some winning ticket ... ;) | 19:07 |
whitequark | university? | 19:09 |
whitequark | are we talking about web development? | 19:09 |
wpwrak | think of it as a filter. "made it through more than one semester -> can probably read and, with the help of a team mate, write" | 19:11 |
wpwrak | well, i'm exaggerating a little. the eduction isn't so bad yet, but keeps getting worse | 19:11 |
whitequark | actually we have a sad joke here | 19:11 |
whitequark | "made it through university -> can do useless stuff for higher-ups and not whine too much for five years straight" | 19:12 |
whitequark | (which is sad because it isn't much of a joke) | 19:12 |
wpwrak | gitorious: "wpwrak is watching" i already feel like someone's observing me :) | 19:13 |
whitequark | most of classes, especially in less-known places, are like that... checking whether you can memorize half a hundred of pages before exam, reproduce them, and forget immediately afterwards. | 19:14 |
kristianpaul | <AD> i can secure your web pages ;-) </AD> | 19:15 |
kristianpaul | wpwrak: not pay shit i meant not of all then, but here are people always want to ask less money so become hard ask for more in that conditions | 19:16 |
wpwrak | next, a license ... i really want to use libopencm3. alas, it's (still) under LGPL3 ... | 19:19 |
wpwrak | they're thinking of changing that to LGPL-link-with-anything (kinda LGPL as it was traditionally understood), but that hasn't happened yet and i'm not sure it ever will | 19:20 |
wpwrak | hmm .. if I pick GPLv2+, that would meet the LGPLv3 compatibility (i.e., the GPLv2+ is used as meaning GPLv3+) and i think someone could still legally rewrite this to a different low-level library (replacing libopencm3), which would then allow use under GPLv2(+) conditions | 19:27 |
wpwrak | does that sound correct ? | 19:28 |
larsc | well you can always dual license | 22:32 |
larsc | only the resulting binary has the restrictions | 22:33 |
wpwrak | that's what it basically would be: licensed under GPLv2+ but that's de facto elevated to GPLv3 by libopencm3 | 22:33 |
cde | licenses. can't live with them, can't live without them | 22:37 |
wpwrak | indeed, indeed ... | 22:37 |
cde | btw what's the problem with LGPLv3? | 22:38 |
cde | it protects your freedom | 22:38 |
larsc | 'freedom' ;) | 22:39 |
whitequark | freedom of your users, sure | 22:46 |
whitequark | but certainly not yours | 22:46 |
Action: whitequark shrugs | 22:46 | |
cde | but you yourself are a user whitequark. so you benefit as well | 22:49 |
whitequark | only if I'm not a developer | 22:49 |
cde | I don't see a huge divide between users and developers. it's more of a continuum | 22:50 |
whitequark | that's the thing with GPL: for owner, no strings are attached, because they're the owner. for users, no strings are attached, because freedom 0. developers are at the huge disadvantage. | 22:51 |
cde | on the contrary. developers gain honour and respect | 22:52 |
whitequark | if they agree with the restrictions | 22:53 |
cde | correct | 22:53 |
whitequark | GPL is an offensive license. that's not inherently bad, but all the talk about how GPL is the only true free license gets tiring | 22:53 |
cde | in general it's not entirely free until you assign copyright to the FSF. then it becomes truely free because the FSF will not relicense under a less free license | 22:54 |
whitequark | just as with proprietary ones, it's not about sharing, it's all about forcing your own view of world upon someone else | 22:54 |
whitequark | for your (not necessarily monetary, of course) advantage | 22:55 |
cde | in my experience, companies will reuse whatever source code they can find without contributing back | 22:57 |
cde | consider Apple with iOS, for instance. BSD based, and how did it benefit the BSD community? | 22:58 |
whitequark | LLVM? | 22:58 |
cde | hmm yes you have a point | 22:58 |
cde | Apple also contributed webkit so they aren't fully evil | 22:58 |
Action: whitequark sighs | 22:59 | |
whitequark | see, what I'm talking about is not whether offensive license are "good" or "evil" or whatever. mainly just about calling things their true names. | 22:59 |
mth | afaik Apple kept pretty much all the code they used that is BSD licensed open; it's the frameworks that were never under BSD license that they keep secret | 22:59 |
whitequark | case in point: I've considered licensing my compiler (for embedded devices) and its stdlib under GPLv3 | 23:00 |
whitequark | *without* linking exception. | 23:00 |
whitequark | (or code generation one) | 23:02 |
mth | can you claim authorship of generated code? | 23:03 |
whitequark | mth: the idea was to say "here's the user code, and here's compiler-inserted code; they're useless without each other and certainly linked together". | 23:04 |
mth | if compiler-inserted code is in chunks of nontrivial size, like the stdlib, that's certainly valid | 23:05 |
whitequark | crudely: the body of function is user's, the prologue and epilogue are mine. | 23:05 |
mth | for code generation, I'm not so sure | 23:05 |
whitequark | would you *want* to check this in court? | 23:06 |
mth | no, but I wouldn't bet on which side would win if it did end up in court either | 23:06 |
whitequark | "no". yeah, exactly what I was aiming for, see. | 23:07 |
--- Wed Sep 11 2013 | 00:00 |
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