wpwrak | hmm, trying the latest net-next (after not touching the ben kernel for a few months). the kernel loses usb once again :-( doesn't even seem to try to initialize it | 03:14 |
---|---|---|
larsc | works fine on 3.10 for me | 06:17 |
whitequark | hahaha, i just found an android application which is basically delphi for touchscreen devices | 15:22 |
whitequark | it's sad and miserable. people using it clearly want shell scripting but they don't know it | 15:23 |
whitequark | instead they have an incredibly limited, action list based language, er, "language", and GUI editor like this: https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/360779649913085952/photo/1 | 15:23 |
Action: whitequark is using this to autodisable GSM in presence of WiFi: at my place there's almost zero cellular coverage so that eats battery pretty fast | 15:24 | |
whitequark | and I use SIP anyway. | 15:24 |
biot | it's the old "in the future, we'll all be programming by dragging graphic blocks around" gag | 15:24 |
biot | been hearing that one since the '80s | 15:24 |
whitequark | though I will _sometimes_ rewrite this in Java, because the thing's all strange proprietary stuff installed on my system partition. don't like that, but in short term it works | 15:24 |
whitequark | biot: which alternatives do you have for touch devices? | 15:24 |
whitequark | it's horrible, but it does the job, and I don't really see a way to do it better | 15:25 |
viric | I always say that technology improvements go in the direction of providing the kind of devices only disabled people had, to a broader audience. | 15:28 |
whitequark | viric: oh. I will quote you on that, be sure. | 15:29 |
viric | :) | 15:29 |
viric | a normal person now has the tech that only disabled people had 10 years ago | 15:29 |
viric | :) | 15:29 |
whitequark | that's... so deliciously double-edged | 15:29 |
viric | ;) yes | 15:29 |
wpwrak | (alternatives) get a keyboard ? :) | 15:31 |
viric | there is a very good spanish film from the 50s, on the topic of disabled people, and devices that assist them | 15:31 |
viric | I was shocked by seeing a person without arms drive a motorbike | 15:31 |
whitequark | wpwrak: annnd what do I do with it? | 15:31 |
viric | it's a very short scene; let's see if someone put that on youtube | 15:32 |
whitequark | interestingly, Android supports keyboard surprisingly well. for example, it handles F-keys, Esc, and Tab automatically works in every single UI form or widget in it | 15:32 |
whitequark | I think Android initially was developed for devices with keyboards, Blackberry-like, but it's nice to see this wasn't lost. | 15:32 |
whitequark | still, almost none apps are suited for users with keyboards. | 15:33 |
whitequark | and if I have to write stuff myself, I can as well get my Eclipse on my notebook and just implement what could be three lines of a shell script in several pages of Java boilerplate | 15:33 |
whitequark | that would surely be faster and easier than doing essentially the same, but on the phone itself. | 15:34 |
viric | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw-CraEap-0 it's this film; about an elder, whose friends all have some kind of motorbikes because they can't walk anymore. He can walk, hasn't such a vehicle, and feels out of the friend gang. :) | 15:34 |
wpwrak | whitequark: then you're all set for proper development, and can use a language that's designed to get things done :) | 15:34 |
whitequark | wpwrak: like what? :D | 15:34 |
whitequark | I mean, it's hard to believe that you have just called Java a "language designed to get things done" | 15:35 |
whitequark | more like "designed to wear out your keyboard", amirite? :D | 15:35 |
wpwrak | whitequark: you know the answer is C :) | 15:35 |
whitequark | ha | 15:35 |
whitequark | I guess I would need to toss out Android then, as it only provides Java APIs for the stuff I want | 15:36 |
wpwrak | can't they have wrappers and such ? | 15:36 |
whitequark | then I would need to write like two times the boilerplate just to expose the interfaces to C, *and* the C code | 15:37 |
wpwrak | write the wrapper once, use it forever | 15:37 |
Action: whitequark nods | 15:38 | |
whitequark | that may actually be a good idea. not in order to use C, of course, but in order to enable things which can use the C ABI | 15:38 |
whitequark | i.e. just about everything. | 15:38 |
whitequark | an Android port of Common Lisp recently made news. I've looked into the code. it's hilarious. | 15:38 |
wpwrak | well, common lisp is a bit of a practical joke :) | 15:39 |
whitequark | instead of using the incredibly overpowered GPU on board, they let you either: render *all* graphics with a rasterizer written in CL, or just implement GUI in Java and business logic in CL | 15:39 |
wpwrak | don't get me wrong. i love the language. but it's not the kind of thing i'd burden myself with when straying outside the ivory tower | 15:40 |
whitequark | hmpf | 15:40 |
whitequark | the technical aspects of that CL application *itself* (apart from android bridge) are satisfying | 15:40 |
whitequark | fast enough, etc, etc | 15:40 |
whitequark | but social, I agree with you | 15:40 |
Action: whitequark glares at the OCaml source code of his compiler | 15:41 | |
whitequark | from what I understand, there's a significant cost of going from Javaland to Cland on Android. | 15:42 |
whitequark | I've looked into it myself a while ago | 15:42 |
whitequark | it doesn't seem to make that much sense unless you're just tossing an OpenGL context to C and drawing some kind of game-like stuff in it | 15:43 |
whitequark | it has rudimentary built-in capabilities for handling input events and that's it. everything else you have to wrap yourself, and it's not easy nor cheap | 15:44 |
whitequark | so, unless your language can compile to Java bytecode, you're having a hard time. | 15:44 |
whitequark | but! there's a lot of languages which compile to Java. Scala (the C++ of FP!), Clojure, OCaml, just from the top of my mind, work on it already | 15:45 |
whitequark | hm. | 15:45 |
whitequark | I may as well look into running ocamljava on android. That at least sounds like fun, unlike writing JAva | 15:46 |
wpwrak | i just wish those nand file systems didn't have that self-destruct-on-mount-failure feature :-( | 16:09 |
whitequark | did you just kill something? | 16:10 |
wpwrak | (tried to run a kernel on the ben that didn't have the nand layout change -> rootfs gone) | 16:10 |
whitequark | I'm sure you have an initrd with a shell handy :) | 16:11 |
wpwrak | naw, it's usbboot time .. | 16:13 |
whitequark | yup, usbboot to a kernel with a shell, restore stuff | 16:15 |
whitequark | that's how I did it on xz0032 | 16:15 |
wpwrak | at least it's an idbg-equipped ben. no fumbling with the USB_BOOT contacts | 16:16 |
wpwrak | how do i restore a ubifs that's so badly damaged that it doesn't even mount ? and even if it's possible, do i really want to waste time on that ? :) | 16:28 |
whitequark | by restore I meant wipe and reimage :) | 16:32 |
pcercuei | wpwrak: mkfs | 16:32 |
pcercuei | heh | 16:32 |
wpwrak | yeah, that's what i'm doing. reflash_ben.sh :) | 16:32 |
whitequark | what the hell, now Ubuntu supporters spam freenode with requests for donations | 16:41 |
pcercuei | for their phone? | 16:42 |
whitequark | yes | 16:43 |
whitequark | http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge ’ Risks and challenges | 16:44 |
whitequark | that really reads as "we have no idea what we are doing. at all." | 16:44 |
lekernel | whitequark, what spam? | 17:13 |
lekernel | I didn't see it | 17:13 |
whitequark | wasn't on this channel, sec | 17:32 |
whitequark | http://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby-lang/2013-07-26#4501362; | 17:32 |
lekernel | I'm a bit skeptical of those claims that such projects "divert resources" from more interesting OSHW projects | 17:36 |
lekernel | RPI = > 1 million units sold, and the software is not impressive | 17:36 |
lekernel | the resources such projects divert are probably not worth much anyway | 17:36 |
lekernel | and I would not call this ubuntu gadget uninteresting. I'm not excited about the hardware of course, but if someone could make an embedded free software GUI with a great design, I'd call it progress. | 17:39 |
paul_boddie | whitequark: I guess that's the "Ubuntu Edge Referral Contest" in action. | 17:41 |
whitequark | lekernel: they already made it | 18:13 |
whitequark | it's essentially regular desktop/netbook ubuntu running in an android chroot. | 18:13 |
whitequark | or do you mean th ephone GUI? | 18:13 |
whitequark | any of you seen a board like this http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/tinykitlist/100-meggyjr, but in form of an arduino shield (yes, I know) | 18:15 |
whitequark | so, led matrix, buttons, possibly a speaker. | 18:15 |
whitequark | I found shields with any one of these but not with all of them. | 18:15 |
rz2k | (yes, I know) - lol | 18:26 |
rz2k | :) | 18:26 |
--- Sat Jul 27 2013 | 00:00 |
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