#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2013-04-04

wpwrakgrmbl. one of these oscilloscope-instead-of-printk moments again ...05:15
wpwrakfirst hint of trouble: zero activity on the I/O pins. yes, that would explain a thing or two ...05:23
coyoquestion for the channel: what is the scope of this community? would a do-it-yourself molten thorium floride fast breeder reactor fall under this community's scope?05:24
coyoin other words, would schematics and instructions be welcome here?05:24
wpwrakwe're more into electronics than making friends with the nuclear power authorities. but i have to admit that the idea is intriguing ;-)05:26
wpwraki could imagine that the raw materials are a bit hard to find ?05:26
coyowell, there's nothing illegal about thorium. it may be theoretically possible to construct thermonuclear warheads with thorium by breeding it into uranium, but it's such a pain in the butt, and i have no need for those anyway05:27
coyoi just want power for my tesla coils :D05:27
coyowithout the power company yelling at me about blacking out half the state05:27
coyowhat you do is "invest" in thorium ore, and smelt and refine it yourself, then induce the initiating of reaction with a beta particle accelerator to provide the initial high energy neutrons without needing a crumb of uranium05:29
coyolet me doublecheck that really fast, hold on05:29
wpwrakoh, i think you can already have a lot of fun with a dirty bomb. that shouldn't be all that hard to make.05:30
coyoalpha particles05:30
coyoi meant alpha particles05:30
wpwrakof course, if you have a few uranium bricks at hand, that'll help05:30
wpwrakheh, someone's been busy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor#Disadvantages05:32
coyohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_decay#Uses possible sources of alpha radiation05:32
wpwrakseems that the best way to jump-start one of your reactors is if you have some decommissioned nuke to scavenge05:33
coyowpwrak: i dont think so05:40
coyothey arent me05:40
coyograbbing fissile material from a decommissioned nuke is a good way to get on every list out there05:41
coyoi'm sure there are other ways to do it successfully05:41
coyowithout attracting undue attention05:41
coyowpwrak: however, am i to take it that the schematics, how to videos, diagrams, and detailed instructions would not be unwelcome in this community?05:42
coyoi'm going to assume diy firearms are clearly unwelcome here. i cant find a tos on qi-hardware.com but it's pretty safe to assume.05:47
wpwrakwell, someone may find schematics entertaining :) but then, we're not really all that much into irradiating ourselves06:34
wpwrakmaybe lekernel could steer you into a better direction once he's back. he's had some wacky talks at his conference in december06:35
coyoaccording to this energy company saleswoman, they dont carry micro nuclear reactors, however, they do have large scale diesel generators with evaporative cooling systems that could provide enough sustained power for a city block or two06:39
coyoi may go that route06:39
coyodiy diesel generator, and diy syndiesel (aka biodiesel)06:39
coyoso you never have to pay another cent for arabian dinosaur corpse juice06:40
wpwrakor just build a little rocket and shoot your experiment into the sun ? plenty of power there.06:46
wpwrakyou'll also be able to put all your experience in radiation shielding to good use :)06:47
coyoy so srs?06:49
wpwrakxiangfu: heya ! a question: do you know how 0020-qi_lb60-NAND-add-data-partition.patch is doing on its way to upstream ?07:03
kyakwpwrak: thanks! i'll try it as soon as i can. Does anything need to be done on atben side? I figured you were using a newer kernel on ben07:18
kyakyeah, there is no good reason why the default partition layout is not upstream.. It's not like there are many modifications of Ben and the upstream holds the generic configuration..07:26
wpwrakkyak: atben doens't work yet with the new kernel. i get no gpio activity at all.07:37
kyakgood :) can use the the default kernel then07:37
kyakwpwrak: out of your kernel tree, can i just extract drivers/net/ieee802154/atusb.c and compile it with 3.9 tree? Or did you do some other changes?07:40
kyaki see there are some changes to at86rf230.c.. So i'd need to recompile this module as well07:42
wpwrakoh, you don't need it for atusb07:53
wpwrakyou need atusb.c, atusb.h, and at86rf230.h. that should be all.07:54
wpwrakbtw, my kernel is 3.9.0-rc5+. so if your aim is 3.9, you may just use that one07:55
wpwrak(not the branch in qi-kernel. that one is obsolete.)07:56
kyakok, i'll try with 3.8.5 which is my current kernel. If it doesn't work, i'll try with 3.908:01
virickyak: do you manage your workstation kernel manually?08:05
kyakviric: no, of course not.. It's arch linux who manages it for me08:05
kyaki have created the dkms-atusb package however08:06
kyakwhich is how i plan to work with atusb08:06
viricwhat is 'dkms'? :)08:06
kyakit's a special software that manages the list of external modules and recomiles it automatically on kernel version update08:07
viricwpwrak: do you make the atusb module build outside the kernel tree? or is it a patch to the kernel?08:07
virickyak: ah ok08:07
kyakdynamic kernel management system, i guess08:07
wpwrakoh, i haven't even tried to build it as a module08:08
kyakwpwrak: ah! that's the key point :)08:08
wpwrakyeah, sorry. should have mentioned that :)08:08
wpwrakit wouldn't be surprised if it actually worked fine as a module. but then maybe it doesn't08:08
viricthe linux trend is that things work as a module but not in-kernel :)08:09
wpwraki try to stay ahead of the trend ;-)08:10
wpwrakbesides, my test machine boots really fast08:10
wpwrakhas a heavily gutted ubuntu that starts almost nothing08:11
kyakmy laptop usually doesn't reboot, except for kernel updates and "reboot will fix it" issues08:11
wpwrakwell, during krnel development, "reboot will fix it" happens rather often :)08:11
wpwrakat least to the point where the machine will talk to you again :)08:12
kyaksometimes my keyboard would just stop working. I then use mouse to reboot :)08:12
viricwpwrak: don't you develop on qemu or so?08:13
kyakthis hasn't happened in a while though08:13
kyakguess qemu won't suffice for atusb.. Or maybe it will?08:14
whitequarkwpwrak: heh. not sure how someone who can't tell alpha from beta particles could build an LFTR08:17
Action: whitequark tries to guess the age range08:18
whitequark1990-1995. "y so srs". I think08:18
larscstupid doesn't need an age ;)09:24
whitequarklarsc: sure, but in my experience, vocabulary tends to reflect one10:11
DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: everything dry?11:37
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: at the 14th floor ? yeah pretty much :)13:28
DocScrutinizer05a question to the real sysop hackers: how would you manage to swap the /home HDD in a life system? As in: add a HDD, cp /home to new HDD, mount new HDD home on top of existing ext3 /home as unionfs, cp again...???14:18
DocScrutinizer05I gather there's NO way to accomplish that?14:18
DocScrutinizer05another alternative approach: fuser -k SIGSTOP /home; dd /dev/sdb3 /dev/sdd3; <swap HDD sdb for HDD formerly known as sdd>; killall SIGCONT14:23
hellekinDocScrutinizer05: you could mount your new disk on /mnt, and rsync -a /home /mnt14:25
hellekinof course, stopping processes using /home would help :)14:26
DocScrutinizer05but what do I do for the files that changed after rsync synced them?14:26
DocScrutinizer05yeah :-)14:26
hellekinlogin as root, fuser -k /home, rsync again :)14:26
DocScrutinizer05friggin Toshiba HDD14:26
roh_DocScrutinizer05: disable regular user logins. unmount..14:27
roh_or copy in a ramdisk and pivot_root14:28
roh_usually.. boot rescue system and do it from there14:28
DocScrutinizer05the whole point is I don't want to logout, since that would e.g. stop this irc client and make me basically lose my queries14:28
DocScrutinizer05pondering suspend to disk14:28
DocScrutinizer05but that's probably also not really working14:29
rohDocScrutinizer05: well. you lost. changing a fs cannot happen without getting rid of processes.14:29
DocScrutinizer05I guess I will have to kill my uptime and do a reboot, accept some downtime for replacing this SATA HDD14:30
DocScrutinizer05roh: :nod:14:30
rohdisks are .. well.. temporary storage. if you need more uptime. go raid 14:30
DocScrutinizer05I guess my question is: how do I minimize that downtime, by doing backups in a proper way during regular use of PC14:31
DocScrutinizer05my idea been to get a new HDD, plug in, init s, dd, power down and swap HDD, boot14:32
DocScrutinizer05alas the shop requires me to bring in the defect HDD to give me a new one, which would mean several hours of PC being down since no proper /home existing14:33
DocScrutinizer05I might opt for buying a spare, do as sketched above, then bring in the defect HDD *after* PC already up and running on new one14:35
DocScrutinizer05will require two visits at shop, plus a couple of bucks for the new HDD spare14:36
DocScrutinizer05amazingly the "defect" HDD still kinda "works" - as in "no errors/problems during normal operation of PC, except for the onnoying TOCKTOCKTOCK it did during last few days every once in a while"14:37
DocScrutinizer05annoying even14:37
Action: DocScrutinizer05 glances at ddrescue output14:38
hellekinit's just warning you it's gonna die suddenly. You shouldn't wait for it :P14:38
DocScrutinizer05I'm not waiting as you can tell from this very conversation ;-)14:38
DocScrutinizer05also the drive is a mere 50 days up&running, manufactured(!) Nov-201214:39
DocScrutinizer05I bought it 50 days ago14:39
DocScrutinizer05heck, with a 2nd HDD I could create a RAID :-D14:40
DocScrutinizer05so same problem won't bite me again14:41
rohwell.. i always buy the same hdd twice (for backups) or 3-4 times (raid114:42
Action: DocScrutinizer05 checks how much they call for TOSHIBA DT01ACA100 today14:42
lindi-DocScrutinizer05: hibernate should take less than 10 seconds, even tcp connections can survive that14:42
lindi-DocScrutinizer05: but if you want to plan for this in the future then LVM with hot-pluggable disks should work14:43
DocScrutinizer05lindi-: my idea is not to hibernate but to suspend to disk, then dd-clone the whole friggin HDD, swap, resume14:43
lindi-DocScrutinizer05: I thought "hibernate" and "suspend to disk" meant the same thing14:44
DocScrutinizer05but I guess suspend to disk won't work, as usual14:44
lindi-I use hibernate every day14:45
DocScrutinizer05yeah, if it works once, it works every time (unless your swap already been used up so much that it can't take the RAM content anymore)14:45
DocScrutinizer05since all my PCs/laptops during last 4 years seen 10 boots each at most, I hardly have done much tweaking to make StR work14:47
DocScrutinizer05314GB ddrescued14:48
wpwrakphew. atben finally responds. it was something trivial: in the past, the gpios were set by default to GPIO, so my driver never bothered to change them. now they're set to function. hence it could no longer talk to the device.14:48
DocScrutinizer05600 to go14:48
wpwrakthe little things that become so obvious after a few hours of sleep :)14:49
wpwrakhellekin: heya ! welcome back ! all services connected again ? :)14:50
wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: he's the one you should worry about. if i understand things right, he's some 13 floors closer to the water - and in an area that did get flooded this time.14:54
DocScrutinizer05hellekin: so everything dry (again) at your site?14:56
DocScrutinizer05btw http://www.kkcomputer.de/Default.aspx?tabid=34&txtSearch=DT01ACA100&List=0&SortField=0&ProductID=17228&Pics=1   61.60EUR, so meh, just get me a spare14:58
DocScrutinizer05after swapping the first defect one for a replacement the both of them will form a nice raid14:59
hellekinwpwrak, DocScrutinizer05: all back to normal, less candles, one less PC :(15:01
hellekinbut the PC didn't die because of water: the dust was still intact.15:01
hellekinInstead it must have died of the recurring power outage15:01
wpwrakhellekin: losing a pc sucks :-(15:01
wpwrakhellekin: maybe it's just the power supply ?15:02
hellekinnot sure what part died, the motherboard lights up, but the CPU fan does not start15:02
hellekinif you have a spare power supply, might be useful to test15:03
DocScrutinizer05either cpu fan (they tend to not start again once worn out and stopped), or your 12V of PSU are dead15:05
DocScrutinizer05you tried helping fan to start up, manually pushing it a bit?15:05
wpwrakhmm, no new ones. but i think i have one that's been removed as preventive maintenance. may have small issues, though. that pc had been acting up on some occasions.15:06
hellekinDocScrutinizer05: nope, testing now15:06
wpwrakreminds me that i'm out of spare supplies. they've turned into consumables lately, much like disks :-(15:06
hellekinI don't have any electrical tools here, sso I cannot do any tests15:06
hellekinwpwrak: oh really? that sucks too15:07
hellekinnope, the fan plays dead15:09
DocScrutinizer05yeah ddrescue just hit the bad sector range of HDD, now it's spitting errors and drive starts woodpecking again15:13
kristianpaulhmm how flexible and fast would be implement regular expresions on a fpga15:23
DocScrutinizer05WOW, that been scary15:27
viricto beat a cpu?15:30
DocScrutinizer05nah, HDD went TOCKTOCKTOCK for 15min15:34
DocScrutinizer05luckily it stopped a few minutes after I managed to send a ^C to ddrescue15:35
DocScrutinizer05already been afraid my complete dsktop would freeze15:35
viricare you recovering a hdD?15:35
DocScrutinizer05of course it's BS to do a ddrescue from a mounted /home15:36
DocScrutinizer05but I thought it's probably better than nuttin15:36
DocScrutinizer051800 hard headpark events, that can kill the nerves of a techhnically sensible person15:38
DocScrutinizer05anyway afk for getting a new drive15:40
kristianpaulDocScrutinizer05: why scary?15:43
viricI guess DocScrutinizer05 is close to loosing data.15:46
DocScrutinizer05why scary? because it is freezing my desktop, spamming my syslog with tons of kernel error msgs15:49
DocScrutinizer05and the sound is curling my toenails15:49
kristianpauli have to replace the OS hardisk recently, seems there is hdd failure fever..16:03
wpwrakmy system disk went early last month ...16:07
wpwrakstill need to try to salvage some files that are in no backup.16:07
virichere one disk died, 1,5 months ago.16:07
viric(not the oldest in the system, by far)16:07
wpwraki see a pattern :)16:07
wpwrakif you have an old maxtor, treat it well, it'll probably outlast you :)16:08
viric3 months ago, another one died at the office16:08
wpwraki wonder if it's time yet to move to SSD ...16:09
wpwrakoh, and i found out why my external WD USB disks didn't work: they have a little voltage regulator on the interface board that gets so hot that it no only burns the board but apparently also the disk's electronics underneath that board. at least, even after removing the disk, it wouldn't work in a pc.16:11
viricI recently found the idle3 timer thing16:12
viricon wd green16:12
viric(together with the start-stop count :)16:12
wpwrakdo they have a start-stop limit ? like some ink printers ?16:12
kristianpaulwpwrak: mine was maxtor yeap16:13
virichere I bought a WD green, because seagate didn't work at all in my computer. it looked like a broken hard drive to the system16:13
kristianpaulwpwrak: i was thinking same about ssd as well16:13
viricwpwrak: no, wd green have a timer that stops spinning every 12,8 seconds of innactivity.16:13
viricwpwrak: very good for energy saving (in some usage patterns), but can be also very degrading for the disk life16:13
kristianpaulwpwrak: those external hardisk also have some sha or similar encryption on the fly i remenber..16:14
viricthe 'respin' counter gets very high in those drives16:14
viricand idle3-tool is the tool to disable that 12,8s timer. :)16:14
wpwrakoh, an idle time beyond the regular mechanism. clever :)16:16
wpwrakkristianpaul: a dead maxtor ? nearly impossible. what did you do to it ?16:17
kristianpaulwpwrak: nothin16:24
kristianpaulbut kernel was flooding me with ATA sync errors16:24
kristianpaulthen i died on sunday16:24
wpwrakthat's what they all say ;-)16:24
wpwrakoh, you're a ghost now ?16:25
larscDid you mean "Then I dyed it on sunday"?16:32
wpwrakthat would explain a lot of things :)16:33
kyakwpwrak: the atusb module builds and loads fine on 3.8.516:50
wpwrakkewl :)16:50
wpwrakcan you also rmmod it ?16:51
kyakusbcore: deregistering interface driver atusb16:51
kyakseems that i can16:51
wpwrakcase 1: insmod then rmmod. case 2: insmod, bring it up and communicate, rmmod16:51
kyakhaven't tried communicating yet.. let me unpack atben :)16:52
wpwraki tried unplugging it, which seems to be fine. still have to check whether i'm leaking memory, though. i don't trust those urb removal functions.16:52
kyakokay, the kernel just paniced :)16:55
kyaki didn't do any special, just wanted to open the page with instructions for dirtpan16:55
wpwrakdid it say where it panicked ?16:58
kyakyeah, i was looking for something usb-related, but there was more like "tcp-write"16:59
kyaki shouldve' taken a picture16:59
kyakwpwrak: i'm looking at http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/setup.html#pcsw. Can you point me to specific instructions i can follow  to test communication?17:00
wpwrakoh, did you try iz assoc ? that would explain the oops17:03
kyaknope, didn't do that17:03
kyaki plugged out the atusb before doing rmmod17:04
kyakthen i plugged it in.. After dozen of seconds it panicked17:04
wpwrakah, interesting. need to try that then. just plug and unplug seems to work. but i didn't try modules.17:04
wpwrakhere's the setup for a simple communication with izchat: http://pastebin.com/Ri9jm7zn17:05
wpwrak(required the latest user space tools on both ends, for the "iz set")17:05
kyakdo i need to silence the mmc driver on ben?17:05
wpwrakyeah, remove everything else that touches mmc17:09
wpwrakon the ben, please use the owrt kernel. my kernel doesn't work yet there.17:10
kyakhm.. on ben, do i need a kernel module or something?17:13
kyakroot@ben:~# iz add wpan-phy017:14
kyakCould not get multicast group ID: No such file or directory17:14
kyakthat's laptop17:16
kyakip l shows the wpan0 device17:16
wpwrakthe ifconfig is strange17:16
kyakip link set wpan0 up17:17
kyakRTNETLINK answers: Broken pipe17:17
kyakthe same17:17
wpwrakbroken pipe sounds like a usb problem17:17
wpwrakoh, did you update the atusb firmware ?17:17
wpwrakha ! :)17:17
wpwrakin case you don't want to build it, lemme upload the latest version ...17:19
wpwrakhere it is: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/tmp/atusb-367c1ab-wip.bin17:22
wpwrakflash with  dfu-util -d 20b7:1540 -D atusb-367c1ab-wip.bin17:22
kyakusb 1-1: Firmware: build #23 Mon Apr  1 21:49:16 ART 201317:28
kyakjust foudn something in dmesg17:28
kyakthe current dmesg timestamp is 202017:29
kyakhm, now i get17:30
kyak# iz add wpan-phy017:30
kyakReceive failed: No such device17:30
kyakon laptop.. time to reboot17:30
wpwrakif you repeat things, the wpan-phy0 usually changes numbers. not sure yet if this is "normal" or a bug17:32
kyakah ok17:32
kyakall is fine on laptop side17:33
wpwrakyay !17:33
kyaknow to ben...17:33
kyakphy1,2 doesn't help :)17:34
wpwrakiz listphy17:35
kyaki think i need kmod-spi_atben17:35
kyakCould not get multicast group ID: No such file or directory17:35
wpwrakyes, spi_atben at86rf230 there's probably also a mac802154 maybe more *802154* modules17:36
kyakdid you just install the packages on top of fresh reflash?17:37
kyakor they are built into the image?17:37
kyaki think i'm running my custom image, which lacks some (many) packages17:37
wpwraki just installed owrt plus your updated tools package17:37
kyakok, then i'll reflash_ben17:37
wpwrakif you have the stack in place, an "iz add" for a nonexisting device should yield: Receive failed: No such device17:38
wpwrakif you kernel has no idea about wpan, you get: Could not get multicast group ID: No such file or directory17:38
kyakwhat does lsmod show on your eben?17:39
kyak(good i didnt say iben)17:39
wpwrakmy ben runs my monolithic kernel :)17:39
wpwrakbut /lib/modules/3.3.8/ has these that look useful:17:40
wpwrakaf_802154.ko spi_atben.ko at86rf230.ko ieee802154.ko  mac802154.ko17:40
wpwrakmay you also need some of these: crc-itu-t.ko crc-ccitt.ko ipv6.ko17:41
wpwrakfurthermore, for dirtpan, you'd need tun.ko17:41
kyakok, i'll add all of those to my image later.. now reflashing the thing17:41
wpwrakthe one you don't want is ks7010.ko :)17:41
kyakbtw, ks7010 is the only module i currently have :)17:42
wpwrakso just modprobe --negate ;-)17:42
kyaki can't really install the modules via opkg, because the kernel package checksum is different from those kernel modules in the latest repo17:42
kyakthis is something i didn't realize until now, because i sometimes used the opkg binary repo to install packages that were missing from my image17:44
kyakthis works fine for regular packages, but not for kernel modules17:44
kyakDone:  78/635 //Damn the rootfs grown big17:45
wpwrakmodprobe --force ?17:46
kyakit's on opkg level, before the modprobe :) i'm sure opkg has some force options, but i'm better of reflashing anyway17:48
kyaki'm not sure what else i changed, it's been a while17:48
wpwrakyeah, a clean owrt install, along with your updated package, should give you a working system17:50
kyakwpwrak: do you know how far is atusb backwards compatible?17:50
kyaki mean, what would be the lowest kernel version one should be able to run it with?17:51
wpwraki don't really know. it may be able to go back a bit but i don't track those interfaces regularly.17:52
wpwrakbut why linger in the past ? :)17:53
kyakthat's true.. anyway, my router is currently at 3.8 kernel, and it will probably get 3.9 soon after it's out17:55
kyakwpwrak: ok, i had to insmod spi_atben manually18:11
kyakthen i do iz add wpan-phy0 and get Receive failed: No such device18:11
kyakiz listphy returns empty18:15
kyakhere's lsmod and a little bit of dmesg18:21
kyakhad to insmod at86rf23018:23
kyakthat's it18:23
kyaknow izchat is running both on laptop and ben18:24
kyakshowing nothing -\18:24
wpwrakcan they talk to each other ?18:24
wpwrakhmm :-(18:24
wpwrakare you typing ? or are you just waiting for something to happen ?18:24
kyaki need to set different MACs i suppose18:24
kyakyour commands have the same MAC :)18:25
wpwrakoopsie !18:25
wpwrakprobably doesn't matter then, though. i've copied and pasted that sequence many times18:26
kyakstill nothing18:26
kyakwait a second18:26
kyaki need to type? :))18:26
wpwrakyes :)18:26
kyakok, it's working :)18:26
kyakmany thanks!18:26
wpwrakdoes it work both ways ?18:26
kyaknope :)18:28
kyakatusb-> ben just gave a krenel panic18:28
kyakand i was so excited that i didn't take a picture18:29
kyaklemme reproduce18:29
kyakyep, it's reproducible18:36
kyakatben->atusb seems to work18:36
kyakbut not the other way18:36
wpwrakthat's an odd one. lemme see ..18:37
kyakmeanwhile, i'm enjoying sending nasty message from ben to my laptop...18:38
kyaki almost can't believe it's actually working when i unplug ben from usb18:40
kyakit's magic18:40
kyakmost important thing - it's working from a bathroom18:41
wpwrakseems that you have no dev->header_ops->create18:43
wpwraknow, why would that happen ...18:43
wpwrakactually .. no, that's being checked. hmm.18:44
kyakone thing that's bugging me.. the at86rf header is modified18:46
kyakhowever, all other modules, including atrf86 itself are built with unmodified header18:47
kyakcould it be a problem?18:47
kyaki'm running all stock modules, except for atusb18:47
wpwrakmaybe you need commit 0483546a3de329cad7705d42962edb09a28794c618:49
wpwrakyou mean "at86rf230.h" ? no, that's a copy. it doesn't exist in the original code. at some point in time i'll try to delete the original definitions18:51
kyakargh.. sounds like it's mac802154 recompilation...18:51
wpwraki see a number of recent changes. you may want to try to just built the kernel from https://github.com/wpwrak/ben-wpan-linux18:52
wpwrakgetting the .config right will be a bit of a pain, as usual, but i don't think it contains many cruel surprises18:53
kyakok, i'll try just the kernel from your repo. I'm pretty sure it would work though 18:53
wpwrak(recent changes) i mean to ieee 802.15.418:53
kyakif all these change make it to 3.9, my evil plan would work18:55
kyakwpwrak: ok, thank you very much! it was fun!18:55
kyaktime to go now18:56
wpwrakthe drivers may not make it this time but i hope some bug fixes and such do18:58
wpwrak(fun) a pleasure :) let's hope the next round gets us both directions19:01
wpwrakthis one is nice, mainly about modern programming fallacies: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/07/new-programming-jargon.html22:14
wpwrakah, someone asked about qemu. dunno how good it is with usb. a prefer to run things on the bare metal :) have to admit that some oopses can be a bit annoying, when things scroll off the console. but then, it's easy enough to add a loop that stops the system after the interesting part of its complaints.22:23
viricno kgdb?22:28
wpwrakkyak: we do indeed not need the full MAC address22:28
wpwrakviric: i developed my workflow when kgdk and such were still banned :)22:28
wpwraki sometimes use gdb on the live kernel, though (with /proc/kcore)22:29
wpwrakmost of the time, i find that debuggers don22:30
wpwrak't really make finding the bug faster. they give you a lot of control, but at the same time you have to spend time on a lot more details22:30
wpwraka few printks/printf often give you that information more rapidly. of course, then retrieving details costs more time22:31
--- Fri Apr 5 201300:00

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!