#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2013-03-11

lkclah HAAAAAHAAHAAA!  sander from ingenic sent me the PADS file and the schematics for the jz4770 PCB - yippeee!04:28
wpwrakbah. you should have asked for kicad :)04:30
Action: lkcl snorts04:31
lkclwell.... when someone works out how to run MS-Pascal on linux, then it'll be possible to run that free "PADS-to-KiCAD" PCB converter sitting on sourceforge...04:32
lkcli tracked it down - it's the only program that can do conversion that's actually free software, but it's written in bloody pascal04:33
Action: lkcl goes cross-eyed04:33
wpwrakat least not in BLISS :)04:45
lkclha ha04:47
DocScrutinizer05err wut? MS-Pascal? I'd hope it's sufficiently standard Pascal to be sourcecode compatible to commonly available pascal in gcc05:57
DocScrutinizer05was it in gcc? or was it something on top of gcc?05:57
Action: DocScrutinizer05 mumbles "*M*S*-pascal!!" and starts to cough05:58
wpwrakthere is no usable "standard pascal" :)06:03
DocScrutinizer05hmm, that actually sounds about correct06:13
wpwraki grew up with it :)06:14
DocScrutinizer05for a converter however it should suffice06:14
wpwrakstring functions ? good luck :)06:14
DocScrutinizer05since you have a clearly specified number of filehandles to list in porgram header06:14
wpwrakwell, let's start easy: strings.06:14
DocScrutinizer05pascal strings are not C strings, yes06:15
wpwrakand anything that goes beyond wirth is rather non-portable06:15
wpwrakand of course, you need that VERY quickly if you intend to do anything with strings06:16
DocScrutinizer05TP FTW06:19
DocScrutinizer05or Modula which looks rather similar to TurboP06:19
wpwrakblargh. clunkier than COBOL.06:21
DocScrutinizer05I had the "pleasure" to use Siemens PASCAL-M for years, and I had to do hacks like store and replace the opaque content of the filehandle, to manage an arbitrary number of files to open concurrently06:22
DocScrutinizer05honestly, "program foobar(file: in, file: out);" how stupid is THAT?06:25
wpwrakask wirth's shrink ? :)06:29
DocScrutinizer05AWESOME: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Hallo-Welt-Programmen/Programmiersprachen#Objective-C_mit_Cocoa06:31
DocScrutinizer05PEARL is also nice, in that list06:33
wpwrak"volle fahrt voraus !"06:34
DocScrutinizer05If somebody would say that to me, he'd better make sure I don't have any weapons in rwach06:34
wpwrakthe OC-Caca example is indeed impressive06:34
wpwrakbut the list of languages is woefully incomplete. where are APL, Brainfuck, and INTERCAL ?06:35
wpwrakthis is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hello_world_program_examples06:35
wpwrakexcept for INTERCAL, all the goodies i mentioned are present :)06:36
wpwrakbut that's just because they were too lazy to copy the fine example from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL#Hello.2C_world06:37
DocScrutinizer05DO, PLEASE DO06:41
wpwrakit's explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL#Details06:41
DocScrutinizer05anyway, if you need somebody to port that friggin MS-PASCAL converter to linux, just ask. Might be fun06:48
DocScrutinizer05I don't think it could be too hard to "figure how to run MS-Pascal on linux"06:49
DocScrutinizer05iirc on linux you even got a PASCAL->C converter06:50
DocScrutinizer05the resulting code might be a tad ugly, but if you hate pascal that much, you might prefer c anyway06:51
whitequarktldr: VP8 is a relatively modern codec which doesn't have patent strings attached.19:51
wpwrakhow can you know that there are no other patents ?20:43
whitequarkwpwrak: well, there isn't a way to predict when submarine patents will emerge20:45
whitequark(except that apparently there will be no more of them after 2015: https://www.acclaimip.com/node/119)20:45
wpwrakwell, "submarine patents" are just a specific form of patent attacks20:48
wpwrakthe only "safe" way to avoid trouble would be to get a binding declaration from every holder of any patent that they either don't consider your technology to infringe or that they agree with your use (likely in exchange for some compensation)20:50
wpwrakwell, any patent up to the date when you froze your technology20:50
wpwrakif you make any change, the clock resets and you also need to talk to the patent holders that have filed in between20:51
wpwrakand that doesn't even explore the possibility of a patent holder changing their mind and challenging the binding nature of a previous declaration20:51
Action: whitequark shrugs20:52
whitequarkthat's unrealistic20:52
whitequarkI don't really see how you could get better than the current state with VP820:53
larsclet it put it this way the chance being sued over patents for using vp8 have been lowered quite a bit20:53
wpwrakactually, considering that some legal systems don't consider a contract without a quid pro quo invalid, you'd probably even have to license the ones that don't apply, just to err on the safe side. there are some 6 M patents worldwide in 2006. now we're probably around 8 M20:54
wpwrak(if not more, with china entering the game)20:55
wpwraklarsc: yes, i'd agree with that. the main bully has been neutralized.20:55
wpwrakwhitequark: and yes, of course it's unrealistic. that's what patents are about :) there is no defense that works. well, perhaps except owning a heavily armed rogue state :)20:56
larscor a hoarde of laywers ;)20:56
whitequarkiirc google has provided their patents resulting from motorola purchase to samsung20:57
wpwraklarsc: yeah, they can at least delay until the other side thinks it's not worth it20:57
Action: whitequark idly wonders why a photoreceptive protein is "strongly expressed in brain and testis tissue"21:00
whitequarkOPN3 gene / Opsin-3 protein21:00
wpwrakmaybe that's where "thinking with one's dick" has its origin21:01
whitequarkthat would be "looking"21:01
whitequarkalso liver kidney and whatnot21:01
wpwrakmaybe some optical computing ? :)21:08
whitequarkit seems so21:16
whitequarkin the brain, it _somehow_ regulates circadic rhytms21:17
whitequarkand...  During meiosis, marked upregulation takes place for many genes unrelated to the meiotic process, and many of these transcripts are not translated into protein (Eddy and OBrien, 1998). Thus, it is unclear whether encephalopsin in these spermatids plays a functional role. 21:17
wpwrakwell, they need to see where they're going, don't they ? :)21:19
wpwrakbut why the sudden interest in molecular biology ?21:20
whitequarknot that sudden21:21
whitequarkwell I stumbled upon that gene accidentally21:21
whitequarkbut given my background I already had the knowledge to understand that it makes no sense and also where to look for details21:21
whitequarkhaha, we don't know what it does but you can order antibodies for it online for several hundred bucks21:22
larscbetter be safe21:23
whitequarklarsc: safe?21:23
wpwraki'd be very careful with "makes no sense". but you can try the antigene on your rats, see what ailments they come up with.21:23
viricwpwrak: russians always says "makes no sense"21:24
viricit's a weird idiom they have21:24
whitequarkum, it doesn't really work that way21:24
whitequarkantibody assays are a method of identification of proteins21:25
wpwrakviric: is that before, during, or after the vodka ? :)21:25
viricI've seen that always21:25
wpwrakwell, scratch that. there probably isn't a before or after. well, except for birth and death.21:25
viricIt looks very unhigienic to me.21:26
wpwraki wonder if russian babies have their vodka diluted with milk ? or do they start directly with regular stuff ?21:26
whitequarkviric: what21:26
viricthe idiom, looks to me unhigienic21:27
whitequarkwpwrak: there was a headline not too long ago; a baby died due to enormous alcohol concentration in breast milk21:27
whitequarkyou are not too far off :(21:27
whitequarkviric: unhygienic? I don't get why...21:28
viricwell, in my language, "makes no sense" sounds like you put the blame on others, for something you don't understand.21:28
wpwrakwhitequark: mix the antibodies with markers that attract the t-cells and you're there :)21:28
viricso for me it's a very aggressive wording21:28
viricbut I see russians say it very often21:29
viricfor something they don't understand.21:29
whitequarkwpwrak: you'd then get an autoimmune reaction, i.e. inflammation of brain, testes, liver, ...21:29
whitequarkso, the rats will quite certainly die21:29
whitequarkwhat you meant to perform is "gene knockout"21:30
whitequarki.e. a modification of DNA performed to disable that particular gene and look at the results21:30
whitequarkI'm fairly sure someone will do that, earlier or later.21:30
whitequarkviric: hm. aggressive. I didn't even realize it is an idiom21:31
whitequarkthe implied continuation is "makes no sense [to me]"21:31
viricfor me, "makes no sense" means "you must be wrong, because I don't understand"21:32
wpwrakwhitequark: yeah, the knockout may be gentler. kill the thing at the root.21:32
whitequarki.e. almost exactly the same as "I don't understand", coupled maybe with the fact that at least an attempt of understanding was performed21:32
whitequarkif you just don't get it, it's "I don't understand". if you think for five minutes and still don't get it even remotely, it "makes no sense"21:33
viricI guess it's some kind of cultural shock :)21:33
wpwrakviric: you could say "makes no sense ... to me". of just stop at "makes no" and down another vodka. everybody will appreciate the need for a vodka break after two whole words.21:33
whitequarkfuck vodka jokes, they're way too old.21:34
larscthat all makes no sense ;)21:34
viricwhen someone tells me "makes no sense", I feel pushed not to help understanding :)21:34
Action: whitequark was about to write "that makes no sense", but noticed how larsc already did that21:35
wpwrakwhitequark: wow, a russian who gets offended by vodka jokes. i thought that would be impossible :)21:35
viricfor me, "makes no sense" ~= "It can't be understood"21:36
whitequarkwpwrak: as the time passes, I want to be identified as russian less and less.21:36
viricI'm trying to find out how I map that.21:36
wpwrakah, voting ended in the falklands. now let's see what the counts show. i wonder if it'll be floor(votes) = 100% or only round(votes) = 100%.21:37
whitequarkviric: hm, is "it can't be understood" an idiom in English? let's check21:37
viricI map that to the Catalan "no s'entén".21:37
wpwrakwhitequark: don't worry, spring is coming :)21:37
viricwpwrak: do you understand the spanish "No se entiende" ?21:37
wpwraki'd translate it as "it's incomprehensible"21:38
viricThat's how I map "makes no sense"21:38
viricIf I'm alone on that...21:39
wpwrakbut with a slant towards "i can't understand", given that the literal generalization would be of little relevance21:39
viricmaybe I don't have to speak about "russians use that idiom" :)21:39
viricok, I'll take that as my particular approach then.21:40
whitequarkactually, I've just realized that I don't know which particular russian phrase maps to "makes no sense" in my mind21:41
wpwraksimilar to "everybody is suffering under the extreme heat". of course, there may be some folks who don't. and in general we're no interested in finding out.21:41
viricwhitequark: I noticed that only in russians speaking in English21:41
whitequarkif that *really* makes *totally no sense*, it would be "bullshit"21:41
whitequarkaka GCHL21:41
viricwhitequark: MB> =5 ?>=OB=>21:42
larscI say "makes no sense" all the time21:42
wpwrakhmm, interesting21:42
viricdo you take it similar to =5 ?>=8<0N?21:42
whitequark"15AA<KA;8F0" (senseless stuff) is quite literary and isn't encountered often in speech21:42
whitequarkviric: hm21:42
wpwrakso if you think "it makes no sense", it literally makes no sense in your mind21:42
wpwrakof you think of a dog, so you hear some faint barking from between your ears ?21:42
wpwrakthat was without /g !21:43
whitequarkviric: kind of21:43
viricI didn't understand a word about the dog21:43
whitequarksame here21:44
whitequarkthat just made no sense21:44
larscI see the dog21:44
whitequarkviric: yes, I think that "=5 ?>=8<0N" might well map to "makes no sense"21:45
whitequarkbut the reason is unclear to me21:45
viricfor me, "to me" is very important21:45
viriclike you used here "unclear to me"21:46
viricwithout it, sounds to me very pretentious21:46
viricI've to do some effort to avoid offension.21:47
viriclanguage nuances.21:47
viricthese things may start wars.21:48
wpwrak(dog) the - currently challenged by scientific discoveries of the last millennia - idea that, when you think of something, the very object manifests itself in your head. in the case of "makes no sense", your brain would therefore assume the configuration of making no sense. qed.21:48
virichm I seem to recall an article about that21:48
whitequarkhm, I'd never distinguish between the latter two21:48
whitequarkmaybe because "clear" is always subjective21:48
viricI remember a story about a CCC  diplomat, and "=5 ?>=OB=>"21:48
viricin USA21:48
viricand problems around that :)21:49
viriccan't find it.21:52
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