#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2012-11-26

wolfspraulI'm moving the buildhost (which also runs schhist) to a new server and building a new kicad in the process03:45
wolfspraulwill use rev3493 which is the latest supported by eda-tools, I think03:45
wolfspraulthis time I will not make a debian package first, but just build and install the kicad app directly (make install)03:46
wolfspraullet's see how it goes :-)03:46
rohhey wolfspraul 03:48
wolfspraulhow are you (and gismo)?03:49
rohwe are fine so far ;)03:50
wolfspraulI've been doing a little bit of mechanical experiments lately, nothing at your level though...03:50
wolfspraulfirst I bought a number of Japanese kids toys, they have interesting stuff03:51
rohits a daily struggle to be who we are, but we are kinda used to it by now ;)03:51
wolfspraullike rubbery plastics you can bend and stick together, or stiff plastic parts to build things03:51
rohnice.. actually.. i refurbished our lasercutter a bit recently03:51
wolfsprauland now I am using that flood of iphone5 cases and see what else (besides an iphone) I can fit inside :-)03:51
rohalso we now have 3 different working 3d printers in the raumfahrtagentur by now.. and my milling knowledge is getting better in small stepps.03:52
wolfspraulsomething I just recently became more interested in are sewing machines, controlled by Linux of course03:52
wolfsprauldo you know much about that?03:52
rohhehe.. nice.. if you find a useable one to hack tell us..03:52
wolfspraulI need to google a bit03:52
rohyou know we got a textile work place inside the rfa as well?03:53
wpwrakhacking sewing machines. that's unusual :)03:53
rohwith a sewing machine.. which can do patterns.. but no external connection (those are much more expensive)03:53
roha friend of us has hacked knitting machines.. to knit patterns and logos03:54
rohfabienne .. (fbz)03:54
wolfspraulI see it just like a sewing robot and was hoping to be able to control everything :-)03:55
rohi think it was on hack-a-day somewhere03:55
wolfspraulnot just upload some design in a complicated way and then have the machine do something, but a more immediate control in real-time03:56
rohhehe.. i like that i now see cnc machines everywhere.03:56
rohevery printer.. atm... scanner...03:56
wolfsprauldon't understand03:56
wolfspraulyou see?03:56
roheven a car nowadays is more a computer with wheels than what it was 50 years ago.03:56
wolfspraulah yes03:56
rohwell.. when i started with cnc stuff i was looking at what people call cnc machines.. basically only a few tools.. mills.. lathes.. machining centers... etc.03:57
rohbut to be precise.. we got em everywhere. all around us in the consumer world as well.03:57
rohwhich gives proof to the theory that making cnc stuff 'easier' and 'cheaper' to get em in every school and make people understand how to use them possible.03:58
rohfrom my pov.. everything which is possible to automate when it comes to work/production/logistics etc will be at that point where the machine/the robot is cheaper in TCO. reality prooves that again and again recently.03:59
rohso either we make the knowledge of how to use those machines, how they work and how to design them and for them publicly accessible for everybody or we will have a very poor majority and a very rich elite... and big tensions in society.04:01
wolfspraulI see you still have energy to tacke the really big problems ;-)04:01
wolfspraulthat is good04:01
rohsince i dont believe that the gains of automatisation are distributed by the current industry/politics i think we need to do that bottom up.. and make everybody an industrialist. a producer and not only a consument.04:01
roheh consumer04:01
rohwell.. i'd say we live in interresting times.. and are fortunate enough that we have the time to think and talk about such stuff. somehow i feel that makes one responsible to also act respectively (within the powers one has)04:03
rohand as long as i got enough customers to enable me to keep doing stuff with a open source mindset.. i will so :)04:04
rohcurrently its sadly just enough... could use some projects for the next year.04:04
wolfsprauldid you just get up or still up?04:06
rohi got up at about 1am... 4hours ago04:07
wolfspraulouch :-)04:07
wolfspraultreat your own machine well :-)04:07
wolfspraulany interesting new project you work on right now?04:09
rohi do.. i usually sleep without a alarm clock.. till i just wake up :)04:09
rohnot really.. atleast none which i see that i can do them fulltime till done since their monetary feedback would be too small/slow04:10
rohi worked on our spdif mux a bit, but i need to find the time to actually finalize the design and order the pcbs to be made and write the software needed04:11
rohi would really like to do small embedded stuff which makes our lifes more like we were promised in the 80/90s ;)04:12
wolfspraulmost people use smartphones for that, and they are doing wonders04:14
rohhome automatisation stuff.. but different to the industry. with focus on cost, size, part availability and how one can realisticly retrofit them at usual existing buildings. also i dont like central control systems ;) so it will be decentralized and 'keep working' even if parts are destroyed/cut off.04:14
wolfspraulI'm looking more into IC design recently, would like to make my own chip :-)04:14
rohwell.. so far there is no smartphone which survives my imap folder... x-]04:14
wolfspraulso after kicad, toped is next...04:14
rohhehe.. well.. who knows what a 10 year old chip making machine costs used?04:15
wolfspraulI think the entire process is long and involves many machines04:16
wolfspraulover 500 processing steps for a recent-gen process04:16
rohi think we have lots of fascinating opptortunities due to the commodotisation of quite high end fabrication technologies04:16
rohand what the opensource hw has shown me so far is that 'more experiments' happen when stuff is in the open04:17
rohso who knows what we might find out. maybe just nobody tried?04:17
wolfspraulnice, I was able to just 'apt-get -t unstable install fped' on the new server04:23
wolfspraulPROGRESS! :-)04:23
wolfspraulxiangfu: on the new server (called 'pertain'), I want to use /var/tmp better04:27
wolfspraulso let's move all temporary files into there, symlink from /home/user/tmp to /var/tmp/user etc.04:27
wolfspraulthen I can backup the rest of the machine but not /var/tmp04:27
wolfspraulthis is how I understood /var/tmp at least...04:27
wolfspraulwpwrak: I am going to commit the qi-update-all script along with schhist, if you don't mind04:42
wolfspraulthat's the best place to keep it. if you don't like it there then maybe another subfolder or even repo, but I think this should be fine... just fyi04:42
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: commit qi-update-all script along with rest of schhist (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/7a16e0f04:44
wolfspraulthere it is :-) (sorry a little fast, but I want to move this stuff off my table...)04:44
wpwrakwolfspraul: yes, good idea05:03
wpwrakof course, it would be even better if it has a comment at the beginning saying what its role is :)05:04
wpwrakbut one can figure it out from what follows05:04
qi-bot[commit] Wolfgang Spraul: curdir fix (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/b73288f06:23
wolfspraulhmm too bad. kicad stops with a dialog box saying "the following libraries could not be found: device" quite often07:35
wpwrakyou need to install the kicad library as well: https://code.launchpad.net/~kicad-lib-committers/kicad/library08:49
wolfspraulwhat is that exactly?09:12
wolfspraulthis time I only compiled and make installed the kicad binaries09:12
wolfsprauland then we have projects.qi-hardware.com/kicad-libs.git09:12
wpwrakthe collection of components and modules that are used by default09:13
wolfspraulI also need to make install the /kicad/library you pointed to?09:13
wpwrakthat is, unless you substitute them with things from our kicad-libs :)09:13
wolfspraulthen I need to find a version that sort-of matches my 3493 I guess09:13
wpwrakbut only very few projects are self-sufficient in that sense yet09:13
wpwrakit's just symbols and footprints, no code09:13
wolfspraulok I will look into it09:14
wpwraknp :)09:14
wolfspraulif you don't mind you can have a quick look over projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist, whether anything looks bad09:15
wolfspraulI didn't re-enable the kernel-randomize_va_space setting yet09:15
wolfsprauland also no kicad-libs yet09:15
wolfspraulI will do kicad-libs first, then rebuild everything09:16
wolfspraulhopefully the randomize_va_space workaround is not needed anymore (3493 now instead of 2448)09:16
wpwrakstarting with f32xbase_c2ben and below, i get "You don't have permission to access /schhist/f32xbase_c2ben/ on this server."09:17
wpwrakmaybe it's still running ?09:18
wpwrakbesides that, the only issue that sticks out are the missing "standard" components09:18
wolfspraulyes f32xbase_c2ben and labsw have strange permissions10:01
wolfspraulthe others should be ok?10:01
wolfspraulsome problem on my end, no worries10:03
wolfspraulok seems kicad-lib revision 120 is about as old as the sources rev 3493 (2012-04-07)10:28
wolfspraulso I will take kicad-libs r120...10:28
wpwrakprobably doesn't matter much. the library should be relatively static10:51
wpwrakbtw, we have our own kicad-libs project, with just the same sort of content. so please be careful with the naming ;-)10:52
wolfspraulI just got the kicad-libs, cmake . make make install11:55
wolfspraulthat installs to /usr/share/local/ or so11:55
wolfspraullet's see how it all works now...11:55
wpwrakhmm, so far only the index page is there12:06
wolfspraulyes, be patient12:14
wolfspraulannouncement about fidelio (the server): I will soon delete the machine, it has been moved to a new machine12:14
wolfspraulwe always clearly said all of the data on fidelio is considered tmp data without backups, but for those who have accounts there now may be a good time to speak up12:15
wolfspraulit's just a handful of accounts and they all look more or less unused for 1 year or more, with tens of gigabytes of temporary build files12:15
wolfspraulI will shutdown and delete the machine tomorrow or so, after it's all working properly on the new one...12:16
wpwrakdownloads is ... turandot. whatever heathen deity that may be. phew :)12:17
wolfspraulnow I abuse the hostname as a little English class, with words I noticed in a conversation... :-)12:18
wolfspraulsuch as 'pertain' or 'hunch'12:18
wolfspraulno I'm just talking about the buildhost12:18
wolfspraulit's all gigabytes of junk surely12:18
wpwrak(buildhost) yeah. just didn't know which roles which machine has.12:19
wolfspra1lok, latest version of the schhist histories should be rebuilt13:14
wolfspra1lthis time including (both) kicad-libs, but not yet the va_randomizer workaround13:14
wolfspra1lhopefully that's not necessary anymore...13:15
wolfspra1lcalling it a day, will read backlog tmrw13:15
wpwrakwolfspra1l: looks good. thanks !16:47
whitequarknvidia opensourced some 2D hw accel code18:33
whitequarkit somehow seems that amd gets worse and nvidia gets better wrt/ FOSS18:34
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