#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2012-10-04

kristianpaulha eeschema is fun01:31
kristianpauli fix one erc warning and two later appear..01:32
wpwrakin german, we have the (colloquial) expression "verschlimmbessern" for this, from "verbessern" (make better) and "verschlimmern" (make worse). "schlimm" also means "bad".01:35
kyakwhitequark: it wasn't a question of reviewing the patch. It was pure bureaucracy06:42
whitequarkah, awesome09:34
whitequarknow open hotspots in russia are 18+, password-protected and password is issued only after providing an ID09:35
larscand you get a unique password?09:42
pabs3and no-one is allowed to share their password?09:45
larsci wouldn't be surprised if they'd write down to whom they handed which password09:47
whitequarklarsc: obviously. that's the whole point I suppose10:08
whitequark(unique, shareable) this is only a law yet. I'll wait and see how is it implemented.10:09
viricthe whole internet became "+18 only"?10:43
larsconly public wifi, if understood it correctly10:47
whitequarklarsc: yes10:53
whitequarkcensoring under the guise of protecting the minors10:53
whitequarklike if they give a fuck about children at all10:53
whitequarkthey already reserved the right to IP-block any website without due process, etc.10:54
whitequarkand demonstrated that they can indeed apply it10:55
whitequarkhello china10:55
larscthe EU actually tried and I think still tries do something similar10:57
whitequarkseen that. wasn't this project met with harsh critics and so? from what I see from here, it doesn't really matter if someone in your country tries to push oppressive laws, it matters if you can take some action and reject them10:59
whitequarki.e. what happened with ACTA10:59
whitequarkwell, maybe I'm being naive after all. I don't know.11:00
Jay7whitequark: hehe, you found that too :)11:03
Jay7my idea is to disconnect that bureaucrats from internet11:04
Jay7or make some kind of simulated internet only and specal for government11:04
Jay7and let them play there11:05
whitequarkJay7: the matrix, you mean?11:05
Jay7yes, for government :)11:06
Jay7they live on own reality now, so I see no problem :)11:06
whitequarkon the serious side of it, have you heard about the prison experiment?11:06
whitequarkI guess that the new government will appear, roughly on par with the previously existing11:07
whitequarkless experienced, maybe, but people tend to gather that kind of experience quickly.11:07
Jay7it's iterative process :)11:07
whitequarkI'm voting for H-bombs then. quick and painless after all. not that bad.11:08
Jay7EMI :)11:08
whitequarkno no, not in this sense11:09
whitequarkget a hundred of 100 mt ones, distribute evenly on the surface, detonate11:09
whitequarkgovernment problem solved11:09
Jay7you are speaking about 23 Dec, 2012 ;)11:09
Jay7but no, people will live and should build new world11:10
rz2klets make opensource H-bomb11:41
wpwrakwhitequark: naw, just build one. and make a congress for new democracy management technology. make some juicy announcements. all the .gov critters will flock there.12:13
whitequarkI swear that Stanislaw Lem has wrote a story about it12:32
wpwrakwhitequa1k: it's the inescapable conclusion once you realize how a mouse trap works13:31
wpwrakwhitequa1k: btw, if you're unhappy with your government, here's an idea they could try: 1) put someone who loathes any forces of security, e.g., a former active terrorist, in charge of security and let that person insult and abuse the force under her control for a few years. 2) assign some of the armed forces (coast guard, border troops, etc.) to police duties. 3) lower their wages by some 30-60%.13:38
Guest74200trying to compile a small app tuneit on my NN. an music instrument tuner. I need the alsa commile stuff (headers?) are these them: http://mirror2.openwrt.org/sources/ ?13:51
GNUtoo-desktopGuest74200, you're trying to compile on nanonote itself?14:05
GNUtoo-desktopor to cross compile?14:05
Guest74200cross compile is new to me? yea thought I would see how manny days it would take :D.14:06
viricI'm interested in a guitar tuner for the NN14:06
Guest74200tuneit is an generic instrement tuner. there all ready is a guitar tuner in the img. I can give you a link dump of tuner software?14:08
whitequa1kwpwrak: I guess someone you know has tried this...14:11
Guest74200here is a nice little clock app: http://www.tenox.tc/out/ I assume the binary's are not compatible?14:18
Guest74200oh and another http://soomka.com/ .14:19
wpwrakwhitequark: how did you guess ? :) one the first day, the coast guard went on strike. the next day, the gendarmerie (border guard, etc., a police force with military structure) did the same. later that day, part of the army joined the protests. today is the 3rd day ...14:26
whitequarkwpwrak: impressive.14:52
whitequarkwhat do you think will come next?14:53
wpwrakwhitequark: probably things will return to a more quiet state in a while, although it's hard to tell with a government so inept.15:29
whitequarkwpwrak: don't settle on anything less than a revolution!15:38
wpwrakwhitequark: well, the next major protest march is planned for the 8th of november. it would be a pity if someone else had already cleaned out the pigsty by then.15:54
larscnice follow up on the discussion rpi discussion18:05
larschttp://www.nand2tetris.org/ - From NAND to Tetris, Building a Modern Computer From First Principles18:07
urandom__oh the elements of computer science, awesome book, i learnt a lot through it18:09
whitequark... the fuck19:05
whitequarkTIL that when someone steals an alpha emitter in a russian public school, they just write it off19:05
whitequarkdidn't even try to find; didn't even try to explain that it could be dangerous19:05
larscso now you know where to get one if you should ever need one19:06
whitequarklarsc: I could get an ICBM probably without much problems19:06
whitequarkon the other hand, K2MnO4 for disinfection is a no-no19:07
whitequarknot even in tiny pharmacy bottles19:07
whitequarkwell, in a certain sense that decision drives natural selection, in the sense that if you're stupid enough to not listen to lectures and steal unknown stuff you shouldn't really be able to reproduce19:10
larscyou could probably steal it from some school as well19:10
whitequarkICBM or permanganate?19:11
whitequarkthe latter, surely19:11
whitequarkwell I won't have to steal19:11
whitequarkI just have to ask nicely19:11
whitequarkand explain that no I won't really make a glycerol bomb with it19:11
whitequarkif I actually would want to do that, I won't even have to ask19:11
whitequarkour chemistry teacher happily did the KClO4+S reaction19:12
whitequarkthe boom was quite impressive and the handle of the thingy you keep a test tube above the bunsen burner was found on the other side of the room19:13
whitequarkhe also tried to explode NI3, but it has failed to get dry enough :(19:13
larscyea, chemistry class was all about builing explosives all the time19:17
larscat least that's the part I remember ;)19:18
whitequarkI happen to remember quite a bit of inorganic chemistry19:18
whitequarkwhich sometimes leads to a blank stare and "... what" in conversations with my peers about something related19:19
whitequarkone would be amazed how much people actually don't get any underlying science in commodity stuff, if one wouldn't already be tired of utter lack of interest in anything at all.19:20
larscI actually had chemistry as one of my major courses in my final years, which means 5 hours of it per week, it's kind of that that I don't remember that much, especially since it was only 5 years ago19:24
whitequarkfinal years of high school or college?19:26
larschigh school19:29
larscyou got to choose two subjects which you wanted to focus on19:30
whitequarklarsc: oh, I was always envious of that part in western education19:42
whitequarkyou never have to choose anything here19:42
whitequarkit's either the predefined set of courses or nothing19:42
larscthe got rid of it here as well a few years ago19:43
whitequarkhow was it justified?19:44
larscI don't know, but it was related to the pisa-study I think19:45
larscthey introduced district wide exams at the same time19:46
Guest74200west edcat has a better rep than it deserves. its rubbish. Home Education is the way to go. did a term of pyro in a sci class I went to that way :D19:48
Guest74200i mean "that way I did a term of pyro"19:49
Guest74200got some vids if you like19:49
larscyou should consider that different people have different types of learning styles and the learning style that suits you best doesn't necessarily work for others as well as it does for you20:06
whitequarkGuest74200: a term of what?20:10
Guest74200fireworks,pyrotechnics, things that go bang20:11
Action: whitequark has thought of roughly this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I20:12
Guest74200larsc: I know very well. I am just fed up of all the cheasey praise the west/uk education system gets.20:25
whitequarkno one likes their home country education20:26
Guest74200I have had a total of 4 schools. 2 private 2 state20:26
wpwraklarsc: (explosives) somehow it20:27
wpwrak's reassuring if they do that in chemistry and not in physics20:27
Guest74200A use for my NN is a fancy countdown for ignition of my pyrotechnics :D20:30
Guest74200just like what they have in incorrect hollywood20:31
Guest74200holly lol20:31
wpwrakhmm. i made a electric ignition for fireworks two years ago and thought of making it a bit more fancy and connect it to the ben. never did that, though.20:31
wpwrakso it's still just simple tact switches being abused for grilling resistors at a few amps20:32
Guest74200I have the fancy countdown script20:32
Guest74200Been using http://www.jamesyawn.net/38mm/index.html for ignition but not with any extra stuff on them. just put the hot wire end  in the black powder. takes 10sec to get to temp20:38
Guest74200How long does grilling the resistors take?20:39
Guest74200will post my countdown script on the mailing list.20:41
wpwraksomething like a second. i think i used a pair of 1/4 W through-hole resistors, somewhere around 22 or 33 Ohm, at 24 V20:41
Guest74200BTW my posts on the mailing list have not been getting though. they get added the the moderation que.20:42
Guest74200oh nice and quick... })20:42
wpwrakyou need to subscribe to the list with the address you're posting from20:42
Guest74200I have20:42
Guest74200qi-hardware_maillist at no spam glamor my aross,me20:43
wpwrakthen i guess you'll have to ask wolfgang. he'll be able to tell you what the list processor disliked. almost certainly it's an address mismatch.20:44
Guest74200opps its maillist_qi-hardware20:44
Guest74200I get msgs vir that address though.20:45
Guest74200wolfgang: see above20:46
whitequarkwpwrak: I once thought about using a nichrome wire and a CR2032 battery20:51
whitequarkaka KMnO4+methanol fuel cell20:51
whitequarkthe peak current can easily achieve 10A with these20:52
Guest74200arr yes nichrome wire. really really fin ant it?20:52
whitequarktalking about western cultures21:51
whitequarkhere, some people poke fun at the anti-discriminatory laws. "tolerasts", say they, akin to "pederasts"21:52
whitequarkI'm not with them, but I don't see how that is supposed to work either21:52
whitequarkthe whole point of hiring is the selection of fittest, right? and if there's a correlation between being, for example, gay, and poor performance, shouldn't you exploit that just as you exploit the correlation between not being able to understand pointers and bad performance?21:53
whitequarkcorrelation obviously doesn't mean causation, but you don't really need to prove causation here21:54
whitequarkso actually you're a) helping people who are good at their job but are being discriminated against to get their fair share and b) helping people who aren't good at their job but are good at finding lawyers by forcing employers to hire them21:57
whitequarkand I don't see how exactly this helps to _reduce_ discrimination, much less the opposite.21:58
freespaceyour examples aren't great21:58
freespacebeing bad a pointers reveals an underlying deficiency with indirection21:59
freespaceit is tricky making judgements on future performance on unrelated factors like being gay21:59
freespacemaybe there is a correlation, but if it is due to persecution of society at large22:00
freespacethen not hiring them only makes things worse22:00
whitequarkmakes sense22:01
freespaceanyway, discrimination laws say given 2 ppl of equal ability, you should not preference one over the other based on their creed etc22:01
whitequarkmy point is, how would you actually verify that you preference one over the other based only on their actual abilites?22:02
freespacetest them?22:02
freespacegive them problems?22:02
freespaceunless you hire based on resume only22:02
whitequarkno no. "you" as in "official controlling the execution of the law, while checking the employer"22:02
whitequarkhow this could be sensibly enforced without allowing anyone to exploit the system trivially?22:03
freespaceif some one is genuinely incompetent, i imagine it would be simply a matter of saying "well we set a test, he failed, so we didn't hire him"22:03
freespacethere would also be long term trends22:04
freespaceit is hiarder to prove a single case22:04
freespacebut if a company consistent hires women with say, C cup or larger22:04
whitequarkthe reply could be "you haven't hired anyone of the $minority_name, therefore you're discriminating against them"22:04
freespaceno, that's now how anti-discrimination laws work22:04
freespacethat is unworkable22:04
whitequarkthat's what I'm asking about. I don't get them22:05
freespacei mean, if not one applied, how can you hire them?22:05
freespacebasically, if you know you didn't get hired because of your creed or gender, or some aspect unrelated to your ability to perofrm tehe job22:05
freespacethey would be discriminating against you22:05
freespacei mean, no one is really saying men are discriminated against in the bra shop assistant job22:06
freespacebut hey, when was the last time you saw a male bra shop assistant?22:06
whitequarkI don't really go to bra shops, ya know22:06
whitequarknever thought about it :) but I get your point22:06
freespacein any succesful economy, they have to be reasonable22:07
freespaceb/c as you say, they would otherwise be exploited22:07
whitequarkwell, one way this could work is like: after someone goes to court, they give you an industry-standard test22:07
whitequarkbut I don't really see how could this work for all fields. it would be a whole lot of work22:07
freespacelet the lawyers sort it out.22:08
whitequarksorry, but last time I've seen lawyers actually "sort it out" was like never.22:08
freespacemost likly the defence would say "here are our documented reasons to not ihire X that has nothing do to with his sexual prefeence, and we have employees of his sexual preference already"22:08
freespacehehe, speaking of discriminations22:09
whitequarkif you're a big enough company the latter statement should already be true, indeed22:09
whitequarkmight work22:09
freespacei think religious charities are allowed not to hire athiests b/c of that in the states22:10
freespace(that being the fct they are atheists)22:10
whitequarkI doubt that anyone complains22:10
whitequarkwell, not *seriously*22:10
freespacedepends on the job... if it as an accountant, i would be pissed22:12
whitequarkI personally would be wary of the 'corporate culture'22:13
whitequarkpeople all around being surprised at you not doing thing X, etc.22:14
freespacenod, i wo't applied for suc a job if i can help it... too much proselytising :P22:15
whitequarkand it's kinda funny that you've mentioned being atheist accountant at a religious charity22:16
whitequarkbecause russian church has recently been caught smuggling tobacco through borders due to customs exempts22:17
whitequarkit could kinda be summarized in one picture, http://img.leprosorium.com/154102822:18
freespacehehe, i didn't know it did that22:20
freespacealso, that is quite symbolic22:21
freespacetime to sleep, so tired22:21
freespacenight whitequark!22:21
freespacethanks for the chat :)22:21
kristianpaulwpwrak: so what you usually do?, i ran erc on atben and i got like 6 errors count23:57
kristianpauli would guess trust your eyes, but read all messages to be sure is not something else23:58
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