#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2012-08-31

paul_boddieHello! Anyone here with kernel booting knowledge on the NanoNote?11:27
wolfspraulthe kernel on my nano boots, but other than that I'm not sure how much knowledge I have11:38
paul_boddieTried to get Emdebian to boot from the SD, and I think I've got it to init, but I wouldn't mind confirming some details.11:39
wolfspraulmaybe just write, the people with more inside knowledge are either in this channel or nowhere :-)11:39
wpwrakwolfspraul: anything to add regarding shipping to .cn ?11:39
paul_boddieEmdebian seems pretty viable, by the way, once the dust has been blown off the documentation.11:39
wolfspraulwpwrak: not really, we small guys are always on the loosing end, it seems :-)11:40
wolfspraulso fedex argentina only handles business packages to china?11:40
wolfspraulI have never heard of the requirement for the importer ID on my end11:40
wpwrakthe way i understand it, it's an issue on the chinese side11:40
wolfspraulyes, that system exists, but only for corporate packages11:40
wolfspraulwpwrak: you don't think chinese have a private life and some private packages?11:41
wolfspraulnot sure how many millions of packages with god knows what amazon ships to china every year... :-)11:41
paul_boddieWell, I used a U-Boot from 2011 because the newer ones aren't supposed to work. And I found the boot command line (kernel parameters) that show that the device and location of the image. And after getting past the "cannot find kernel image", the issue seemed to be where the init program was.11:41
wolfspraul*if* fedex declares this as a professional/business shipment, then sure the recipient needs the company id and paperwork11:41
wpwrakof course they do. but that doesn't mean that customs has to acknowledge that :)11:42
wolfspraulbut if it's a package to a private recipient in china, there should be no issue11:42
wolfspraulbut I know in some countries fedex only accepts 'business' packages to some destinations11:42
wolfspraulseems to be the case between argentina and china...11:42
wolfspraulnobody I know here has such a company/importer ID11:43
wolfspraulfedex says they don't take private packages to china?11:43
wolfspraulor they say private packages to china don't exist?11:43
wpwrakthere's something similar in argentina. you need it if your shipment exceeds the limits of the "simplified regime"11:43
wolfspraulanyway arguing will not help you...11:43
paul_boddieI think I fixed that by adding a symbolic link from /etc/preinit to /sbin/init (mentioned on the Debian debootstrap page) since the latter isn't specified on the kernel command line, although it's probably in the kernel's init/main.c, so I wondered what the purpose of that file was.11:44
wolfspraulwhatever 'regime' the little board you are sending would qualify for...11:44
wpwrake.g., then the shipment is valued > USD 100011:44
wolfspraulpaul_boddie: I will definitely ask xiangfu to look into this, but it's friday evening here and maybe it will take a day or so to get hold of him...11:44
wpwrakwell, i don't know what rules they have in china :) i tend to trust fedex to know their customs very well :)11:44
wolfspraulI never modified or dealt with kernel booting at that level11:44
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes, agreed. but it's fedex who does not *want* to ship private packages to china11:45
wolfspraulwhich is their choice, of course11:45
wpwrakbut i'll give it a try with explicitly stating that it's for personal use. let's see if they take it.11:45
wolfspraulI can imagine that business shipments only with full chinese paperwork are easier/higher margin than dealing with the private mess - especially in china11:46
wolfspraulwpwrak: maybe not. I use fedex a lot and as I said sometimes they voluntarily restrict themselves to business packages11:46
wolfspraulthen their entire system/computers/staff etc. are not setup to process 'private' packages on that route, and there is nothing you can do11:46
wpwrakso you're saying fedex generally doesn't ship to private recipients in china ?11:46
wolfspraulat least not from argentina, it seems11:47
wpwrakbecause the argentina end certainly does11:47
wolfspraulthink about how little that business is anyway11:47
wpwrakhmm. could be that there are specific restricting for things coming from argentina, true11:47
wolfspraulbut sure it's possible that into china fedex is doing 'business' only from anywhere in the world, I don't know11:48
wpwrakreciprocal trade sanctions and such11:48
wolfspraulfedex is different from the other guys in many ways11:48
wolfspraulthey are more expensive, have better service, have their own customs agents, and easily make tough decisions to only focus on profitable business :-)11:48
wolfspraulin china they are the only onces insiting on their 'foreign' status meaning all fedex delivery cars have the black 'foreigner' license plates11:49
wolfspraulwhereas everybody else is going with the flow and opens chinese/joint-venture subsidiaries etc.11:49
wolfspraulmost likely together with a substantial lowering of standards along the way11:50
wolfspraulit may be that fedex is only licensed to take business packages into china11:50
wolfspraulthey are a small niche/expensive/high-end player here (in china)11:50
wolfspraulthis is as much as I know about the situation11:51
wolfspraulI like fedex but in china the are crazy expensive11:51
paul_boddiewolfspraul: Thanks! I think I probably just have to read up a bit more about it. Initially, I thought that I didn't have an init program, but you do get one with a Debian bootstrap, and I think that it's the integration between the kernel and the userland that is the critical part. I actually think now that I have to get a working inittab running.11:51
wolfsprauland their staff is about 100 times more educated/knowledgeable than at any other shipping company :-)11:51
wolfspraulor make that 1000 times11:51
wolfspraulhow about ups/dhl?11:53
wpwrak(fedex being special in china) hmm, okay12:15
wpwrakand yes, it's the quality of their service why i prefer them. with all the others, i had my horror stories, but never with fedex.12:15
wpwraklet's see about UPS/DHL ...12:16
wpwrakhave you or anyone you know received good (not documents) via UPS or DHL in china ?12:16
paul_boddieAh, the manual: http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/techref/process.boot12:19
paul_boddieMaybe I have to do some OpenWrt/Debian integration. Or try a Debian mipsel kernel but with support for the NanoNote's devices.12:20
wolfspraulwpwrak: I outsource all of that to someone like xiangfu, we need to ask him12:28
wpwrakhmm. he's probably already gone :-(12:29
paul_boddieI'll figure it out, I guess. I suppose it's a learning process. But I'm encouraged by Emdebian, at least. It seems like there's an infrastructure there to support lots of embedded platforms.12:31
paul_boddieThe mipsel stuff just seems to work. I ran programs in a chroot and even apt-get worked.12:33
wpwraki would be very nice to have a proper debian for the ben. debian should have less maintenance hassle than, say, openembedded12:37
paul_boddieIt's probably also better for things like licence compliance, too - shipping the corresponding sources, and so on - because of the source package infrastructure Debian provides. I'm not sure how OpenWrt helps with that.12:48
jow_laptopopenwrt ships patches and makefiles with build instructions12:49
jow_laptoppatches are applied on top of the vanilla tarballs of the upstream projects12:49
jow_laptopno custom source tarballs12:50
paul_boddieYes, I see that in the "buildroot" I'm using. I was just thinking of the practical side of shipping an image and then being able to say, "Here are the sources!"12:51
jow_laptopyes, likely12:52
jow_laptopbut only interesting for self-hosting systems12:52
jow_laptopif you cannot recompile the os on the os it makes no reals sense to have the sources available via the package manager12:52
paul_boddieTrue, but for someone shipping an image, if they don't already get the sources to some GPL-licensed stuff and then someone wants those sources, maybe to rebuild the image on their PC, is it not better to have those sources ready to give them? Or better still, just give them the sources on a DVD with the image?12:55
jow_laptopbut I don't see the inherent openwrt problem with that13:05
jow_laptopjust run dirclean in the openwrt buildroot, tar it up and offer it as download13:06
jow_laptopit will be a fully selfcontained dump of any used source13:06
jow_laptophowever I only skimmed the discussion here so please excuse if I missed the point13:07
paul_boddieI don't think you missed anything. :-) I was hoping you'd mention a make target to solve the problem, though. ;-)13:12
paul_boddieThanks for the help! I'll see how far I get with Emdebian and then try and write it up.13:22
kristianpauldebian yes at least no need to update os in years thanks to it :)13:57
kristianpaulwpwrak: you there?22:05
kristianpaulWhat happen in eeschema when editing a component footprint that is custom..22:05
kristianpaulfor example this TCXO http://datasheet.octopart.com/NT3225SA-19.200000MHZ-NDK-datasheet-58250.pdf22:06
kristianpaulupstream author came with this NDK 3.2x2.522:07
kristianpaulJust to clarify i'm editing the component properties22:07
kristianpaulerghh digkey dont have a 16Mhz NT3225SA :-|22:53
wpwrakkristianpaul: if you're editing the component properties in eeschema, they will be saves in the schematics. if you edit them with the component editor, they'll be saved in the .lib file. does that answer your question ? :)23:00
wpwrak(i.e., i don't quite understand what you actually asked :)23:00
kristianpaulyes i'm editing on eeschema23:08
kristianpaulbut wait i asked about the Footprint Field in the Component Propierties window from eeschema23:10
wpwrakyes ... you can set the footprint there23:11
wpwrakor pick it later in cvpcb23:11
wpwraki tend to find cvpcb more convenient23:12
kristianpaulokay how boom handle custom footprints values?23:14
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