#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2012-08-29

qi-botThe build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120827-2243 01:09
larscmth: to be honest I have no idea, I guess it does this because everybody else does it as well11:22
mththat was exactly my reason for doing it for the JZ4770 :)11:43
wpwrakcargo cult programming at its finest ;-)11:44
wpwrak(and no, i don't know either :)11:45
whitequarkwpwrak: just like the cache tricks magic in the initialization code12:20
whitequarkI've stripped them and nothing has changed12:20
wpwrakthose mistreated caches will wait for you in the afterlife ;-)12:21
Action: whitequark imagines several poor cache lines in the Charon's boat12:22
mthgdb aborts the process I'm debugging because it allegedly receives signal 128 pretty close to startup12:46
mthbut if I run the process outside gdb it starts up fine, the thing I'm debugging happens much later12:46
mthand there doesn't seem to be a singal 12812:46
mthmaybe gdb is seeing ghosts: the signal does not come from __send_signal in the kernel13:12
mthcould it be a tortured cache line?13:13
DocScrutinizer51is that process maybe skype? ;-P13:14
mthno, gmenu2x13:14
mthit is certainly something inside gdb: when trying to attach to a non-existing pid, the same "signal" occurs13:30
lindi-mth: on ARM?13:33
mthon MIPS: JZ477013:35
Fallenouwolfspraul: I've just read an email from you dating from 2009 about marvell combo chip 88w8688 , do you have more intel about what bugs are encountered or what's wrong with the chip etc ?13:35
Fallenouor some guy I could shoot an email about this chip ?13:35
mthbut it happens on JZ4740 too13:35
lindi-mth: ok, no such hardware here13:35
lindi-mth: it doesn't happen on arm or x86?13:35
Fallenouon my daily job we happen to use this chip (connected to an OMAP 3630), and indeed we have a lot of troubles with bluetooth :/13:36
FallenouI am referring to this email http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2009-November/001108.html13:36
mthI don't have an ARM device, on my x86_64 desktop everything is fine but that's an entirely different system (different gdb version, glibc vs uClibc)13:36
mthit even happens on /bin/ls (busybox), so it's not related to the application that is being debugged13:37
wolfspraulFallenou: oh my, no I don't :-)14:51
wolfspraulthat's a looong time ago and I learned many things, primarily to stay away from such chips :-)14:52
wolfspraulif you are still fixing bugs on that chip today, that's itself a bug already. but other than such non-helpful 'suggestions' I don't have anything, sorry about that14:53
Fallenouyes marvell shipped a new firmware a few days ago to us 14:54
Fallenouand it has a lot of regressions14:54
Fallenouit's a nightmare14:54
wolfspraulall I can say about these things will not help you14:55
wpwrakthere's indeed a bit of a message in "oh, we'll fix [many flaws] in the next firmware update", when that comes for a chip that's been around for so many years :)14:56
wolfspraulbut: GOOD LUCK!14:56
wolfspraulwpwrak: the chip was never designed and made for companies like fallenous, imho14:56
wolfspraulso by now both marvell and fallenou's company are in a loose-loose situation on this14:57
wolfspraulfallenou can just "try his best" and be happy about his pay check, which is hopefully comforting...14:57
wolfspraulFallenou: don't start drinking :-)14:58
Fallenouahah I won't14:58
Fallenouit's just annoying14:58
wolfspraulyou are paid for the annoyance?14:58
wolfspraulthe enjoy the money...14:58
FallenouI don't care that much deep inside14:58
wolfspraulit's all you will get :-)14:58
FallenouMarvell seems to only have 2 automotive chips14:59
Fallenouand the 88w8688 is one of them14:59
Fallenoutoo bad it's just crap14:59
FallenouI wonder what will happen when we will try to use te 3.0 features :)14:59
wolfspraulit probably works for the 1 or 2 customers that are being directly supported14:59
Fallenouwell we have kind of support14:59
wolfspraulyou are not bmw, afaik14:59
Fallenouwe have conf calls and firmware fixes/kernel driver shipping14:59
Fallenouwolfspraul: no we are not but we may ship to bmw/volvo/mclaren/whatever :)15:00
wpwrakreminds me of the times at openmoko ... an epic struggle with that wireless chip, yet it never quite worked. in the end, it came down to fatal firmware bugs nobody could be bothered to fix.15:00
wolfspraulthe economics are tough for everyone15:00
Fallenouadd Android on top of all this, and coexistence between wifi and bluetooth15:00
Fallenouand there you go15:01
wolfspraulanyway, all blurb that won't help fallenou, I'm afraid15:01
Fallenouhead banging against the wall :)15:01
wolfspraulin a few years it's all forgotten15:01
Fallenouanyway thank you for the human conforting support !15:01
wolfspraulread the leaked apple genius thing today15:01
wolfspraul"I understand why you feel that way"15:02
wpwrakyou should tell your bosses to find some small company that makes some halfway decent wifi chip, buy that company, then open the design - at least at the register level, deeper if you can - and let the hacker world work on it for a few years15:03
Fallenouthat sounds like a good idea15:03
wpwrakthen you could hope for having, say, decent 802.11g in a couple of years15:03
FallenouI'm not high enough in the company hierarchy yet to give this kind of advice15:03
wpwrakapple genius ?15:04
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