#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2012-08-17

wolfspraulfound this really nice article with lots of good music links... http://www.nilsgey.de/2012/08/16/open-source-instruments-i-give-up/00:48
wolfspraulfor now he 'gives up' but there's still good links in there to all sorts of software, samples, etc.00:48
pabs3wolfspraul: thanks for that, pasted it on the IRC channel of the Debian multimedia team01:41
hellekinCan you see a future in 3D printing + GNU radio / Asterisk + FPGA / ASIC, combined? 13:59
viricprinting a box for your FPGA minicomputer while listening to the radio while your mother rings to your PBX?14:02
kristianpaul3d priting still evolving hard to know14:02
kristianpauland gnu radio eventually need to be more that SDR solution, perhaps a FRD (F of Fpga) ?14:03
kristianpaulthe ASIC well, i think of all then uses asic right now :)14:03
panghow about the internet14:04
pangdoes it have a future?14:04
viricchina built a big firewall, russia wants a similar firewall...14:04
viricother governments to come may also think it's a good idea.14:05
viricThey will think of any pretext, pederasty, whatever...14:05
larsciran wants a iran-net completely cut of from the global internet14:06
viriconce there is technology for wide networks, why have only one?14:07
viricIt's like the single channel TV, and then multiple channels. Some more expensive than others.14:07
viricAnd remember that capitalism has the purpose of making scarce what is abundant.14:08
panghow about space travel?14:08
viriciow, give value to products.14:08
viricand discover new markets.14:08
larscnah, they don't want two internets only the iran-net14:09
viriclarsc: well, some people may get access to the internet paying more14:09
viricas some extraordinary uncommon service14:10
kristianpaulan other networks surelly will re-vive14:10
kristianpaulremenber HAMs years ago had its own "internet"?14:10
viricI don't know for IPv6... but IPv4 is almost fully by US companies14:10
kristianpaulthe need for comunication is very strong :-)14:10
viricis *owned* almost fully by US companies14:10
viricDNS root servers are also in the hands of a few14:11
viricAnd also big routers.14:11
kristianpaulpang: for space travel well, we need ground stations first, navigation systems to get at least low orbit..14:11
kristianpaulfor example for gps a free stack that no matter altitude works ;-)14:11
kristianpaulgps receiver*14:12
viricthe first GNUstronaut sent to space. :)14:12
pangi think we should build a space elevator14:12
viricpang: start hiring :)14:13
pangand start mining asteroids and stuff, so the chinese can't monopolize all the earth resources anymore14:13
hellekinpang: about the future of the Internet, I was thinking about that exactly: how to empower local communities to build their own communications infrastructure that can plug into the net or work locally14:13
hellekinand I see an interest in free hardware for that purpose. I just don't know how to articulate allthat.14:13
virichellekin: the cyberpunk movement is a lot on that14:14
virichellekin: do you know contactcon?14:14
hellekinviric: reading Neuromancer brought me to computing :)14:14
virichellekin: http://contactcon.com/projects14:14
hellekinyes, contactcon was a great initiative, but the follow-up was a bit lame. The forum was born in its infancy. Let's see thatprojects page14:15
kristianpaulhellekin: is very hard to know14:15
kristianpaulpeople have own paths and desires are hard to control14:15
kristianpaulin some other way if they are uses this tech will surive14:16
viricthe gnunet people have their stack working right over wireless lan, for example.14:16
kristianpaulbut just before somebody cut the plug is when most realize the uncoming threads?14:16
kristianpaulor perhaps first get a workaround14:16
hellekinyes, gnunet is definitely on my stack of techs to promote14:16
kristianpaullike who many of ** dont by pass cautive portal in the air ports..14:17
viricI remember some mesh network projects, but all quite stoped.14:17
hellekinkristianpaul: for somereason I have this silly analogy coming up to mind14:17
virichellekin: the anonymization in gnunet is really good :)14:17
hellekinyou have this protest in South Africa, people with machetes marching toward a line of robocops. Everybody knows what the technology can do. Just don't realize how much it can do... Until panic spreads in the police ranks, and they fire machine guns in the crowd. Now everybody on both sides realize.14:18
hellekinviric: I wouldn't take that part as a best advantage of gnunet. Tor is still much better. But the transport layers of gnunet span everything we can think of, more or less.14:19
hellekinback to my analogy: we have very good tech, 3D printing, softcores, free hardware, free software to replace monopolistic infrastructures with decentralized,community-owned ones. How do we get from here to there?14:21
kristianpaulimproving first 14:21
virichellekin: 3d-printing some guns?14:21
hellekinwhat's the switch that makes a criticalmass of people willing to take their tech into their own hands14:21
kristianpaulviric: ir coins? :-)14:21
viricthe free-hw movement still has lots of troubles convincing ordinary people14:22
viricwhich have too much work fulfilling their daily duties.14:22
viricand in many cases the purity on free-hw is too limiting.14:23
viricEven all zelots here use mostly closed hw just to stay in this channel, I bet.14:23
hellekinso for next year, we're setting up a bus tour in Brazil. Going around villages that don't have high speed Internet access, and bring them wifi mesh,free telephony, online collaborative tools, and 3D printing. How can we add free hardware to the lot?14:23
kristianpaulis not convincing, is just offering alternatives, people should take own desitions14:23
hellekinone cannot take good decisions without proper information14:24
virickristianpaul: people take decisions based on what looks more convincing to them, too :14:24
kristianpaulhellekin: thats sound like a fancy give a way of items  to me :)14:24
kristianpaulhow they plan to use?14:24
hellekinand proper information about disruptive tech is not necessarily easy to get14:24
hellekinkristianpaul: it's an activist network. They need to reach out, and share information between them14:25
kristianpaulso this people already have the *need* for this tech?14:25
hellekinhave you heard of the sellout of some ancestral Masai land to rich Qatari for hunting lions in Africa?14:26
kristianpauland when you leave is not a cut-off of support :-)14:26
virichellekin: that projects page, on technology, has some at least good marketed projects14:26
hellekinwell in Brazil, a similar situation arises with indigenous populations being spoiled of their lands by mingin and forestryand intensive agriculture14:27
hellekinit would not happen if peopleknew more about the situation14:27
virichellekin: the biggest trouble of developing countries are the developed countries, I think.14:27
hellekinviric true14:27
hellekinkristianpaul: yes support is indeed a big issue14:27
hellekinelektra has a lot of experience with that in Africa. When things break, and hackers are not around, they just stop using the stuff14:28
kristianpauli think, we are reposinble for making tech with less need of fancy geek support 14:28
viricI think that having some people from developed countries trying to help developing countries, while other people from the same developed country fucks them a lot, is a big loop that should be broken inside the developed country.14:28
hellekinsame goes with wells implanted in Africa: the pump dies, people can't fix it, the well becomes a hole to fill with garbage14:28
hellekinviric: it's a very complex situation. There's the inertia of a system that's gearedtoward maximum profit in the shortest time, without proper resource accounting, then you have corruption,malevolence, a lot of ignorance, even among the knowledgeable people, then you have local specificities, etc.14:30
kristianpaulviric: agreed14:30
hellekinas a funny example, coming from NL and DE, I was apalled at the smallness ofglasses of beer in Brazil14:31
hellekinthen I realized that it's Winter, and I'm in a tee-shirt, and that in Summer, a pint of beer would heat up pretty fast14:32
kristianpaulthis free tech, should work out of the box and include or required instructions to make it work14:34
kristianpaulno matter language ;)14:34
kristianpaulwelk perhaps that last one was a bit ronamtic14:34
kristianpaulviric: a start !14:34
kristianpaulhellekin: for yoru particular case, why not start with simple things14:37
kristianpaullike building houses, water cleaning systems, energy collection and storage14:38
kristianpauland why not a phone that ideally jsut works, pehrpas like mesh potatoe?14:38
kristianpaulfor me, 3d printing as we knew it still bit messy for a give a way...14:39
kristianpaulgotta go, back later14:39
hellekinkristianpaul: in 1979, a couple of weeks before the beginning of the Universal Expo in Tehran, the Russians announced their presence. As usual, the USA decided that they should go too, but they didn't have anything prepared. They called Buckminster Fuller, and he delivered a huge geodesic dome in a kit, with instructions. Local engineers could build it without prior knowledge of the technology, in a matter of hours. That is the kind of goal we should 14:39
kristianpaulyup :)14:40
hellekinthe 3D printers are not part of the bundle, but we figured out that if we could have someof themin someof the places,that could be a good start14:40
hellekinbut telephony is. I hate phones, mostly because I hate interruption. But having a voice partyline is great. And useful, especially in rural zones where your communications can be silenced for political reasons14:41
hellekinanyway, I just wanted to share a bit of thinking out loud. Let's find a way to make that pulsate. There must be something...14:43
kristianpaultrial and error?14:43
kristianpaulgetting to manufacture your ideas?14:43
kristianpaulwell, bye !14:43
hellekintrial and error sounds toomuch like blindness... Will and steering?14:45
hellekinSteering the will ;o)14:45
hellekinkristianpaul: I just want to create synergies that matter. Manufacturing *your* ideas :)14:46
N1ckAnybody know what the realistic range from a 5W amp and 15dbi omni is?17:09
viric15dbi omni? 'dbi' is a unit that compares to omni.17:10
N1cksorry an omni-directional antenna that offers 15dbi of gain17:11
viricI'd repeat my sentence17:12
viricbut even if you had given good units, I wouldn't know any 'realistic range' :)17:12
N1ckhaha ball bustin' are we17:13
qi-botThe build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120816-1742 19:57
--- Sat Aug 18 201200:00

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!