#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2012-08-14

wolfspra1lwow lots of warnings from werner's gcc warning suggestions the other day :-)00:43
wolfspra1lbut I'm in cleanup mood, so going through...00:43
wolfspra1lno previous prototype, shadowed declarations, xxx may be used uninitialized, etc. etc.00:44
kristianpaulwpwrak: best wishes, happy birthday !01:04
wolfspra1lok first round finished, 20-30 warnings fixed...01:05
wolfspra1lnah, those old-style warnings are not needed imho01:07
wolfspra1lbut the others were nice - thanks a lot!01:07
wolfspra1ltoday I start with the auto-tester, which will take the whole thing to the next level...01:07
xiangfukristianpaul, I got the external clock working.01:31
wolfspra1lxiangfu: cool!01:31
wolfspra1leven though you violate "1000 design rules"01:31
wolfspra1lhey Werner, where's your pioneering spirit? :-) I'd say violation of design rules is THE bona fide way to learn the essentials the right way :-)01:32
kristianpaulxiangfu: nice!, what are you modeling with it?01:34
kristianpaulindeed, you need to violate some rules to learn..01:35
kristianpaullike exploding some poli cells at home... :-|01:35
Action: kristianpaul never realized how sensible could be batteries those days..01:36
xiangfublinking LED so far. the code is same.01:37
kristianpaulnow with a know clock source :-)01:37
xiangfuyes. know clock.01:37
xiangfuI have a 20M and 40M osc. I can connect them for compare. :-) I can see the different.01:38
xiangfukristianpaul, I guess I can jump to a simple serial console. do you have some source code that I can easy copy/paste. :-)01:38
xiangfuwith 1000 design rules. I compare the source on M1 and my violate-1000 board. it works fine under M1. 01:39
kristianpaulFallenou: have01:39
kristianpauloh sure01:39
xiangfuthen there must be something wrong with my hardware. connect/wires/power 01:40
xiangfu"with 1000 design rules" I mean "yes. violate 1000 design rules :-)"01:40
wolfspra1lxiangfu: so it works or does not work? what do you mean with "got the osc working"?01:40
kristianpaulit seems it does, no?01:40
xiangfuit works fine fine.01:40
kristianpauli just know this https://github.com/fallen/md5-hbf/blob/master/usart.v01:41
xiangfuosc --> oscillator01:41
kristianpaulbut is not easy copy and paste..01:41
xiangfuI found when the chip needs power it named 'oscillator' . when it no needs power it named: 'crystal'01:41
wolfspra1lthe crystal oscillates when a voltage is applied to it...01:42
kristianpauland you can debug that on the scope01:43
kristianpauli do that a lot, we never know...01:43
kristianpaulxiangfu: perhpas not that hard, as just TX :-)01:43
xiangfuwolfspra1l, I found the schematic are all using 'osc' , so I start to use 'osc' or 'oscillator' for the clock chip.01:45
xiangfuwolfspra1l, oh. I just got what you mean.01:46
xiangfusorry for confuse. I got it now.01:46
xiangfuthe translate not that as good as human. :)01:47
wpwrakkristianpaul: thanks ! :)02:04
wpwrakwolfspra1l: (warnings) found any real bugs ? "xxx may be used uninitialized" sometimes points to one.02:05
wpwrak(old-style warnings) if you're writing old-style prototypes, they can also hide bugs. of course, if you write modern style anyway, then you don't need the options.02:06
wpwrak(1000 design rules) oh, no problem with me :)02:07
wpwrakwolfspra1l: (crystal) that's a bit misleading :) the oscillator oscillates if you apply DC. and it sends out a nice digital signal.02:13
wolfspra1lalright, even better :-)02:14
wolfspra1land the deeper you look, the more mysterious the crystal will become...02:15
wpwraka crystal doesn't actually oscillate itself. it acts as a filter in the feedback loop of an oscillator circuit. and it outputs a very weak signal that this circuit first has to amplify and clean up before you can do anything with it.02:15
wolfspra1lno did not find real bugs, only one left-over excess printf argument02:15
wolfspra1lbut that didn't do any harm02:15
wpwrakin fact, it's not uncommon that trying to measure what a crystal is doing upsets the circuit so much that it stops working.02:16
wpwrakhere is a nice description of how crystal oscillators work: ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00826a.pdf02:16
wpwrak(mysterious) indeed ;-)02:17
wpwrak(measuring crystals) e.g., the oscillator circuit in the transceiver in atben/atusb drives the crystal with signals that are so weak that it stops oscillating when you touch it with a "normal" oscilloscope probe. so you either need to find some fancy active probe (worth quite a few bottles of good wine), try making one yourself, or measure at the (digital) clock output of the chip.02:20
wpwrakoh. acrylic (PMMA) is used as rocket fuel. maybe i shouldn't just discard the saw dust from my mill then.03:11
wpwrakhmm. some people find leather bags offensive. i wonder what they'd say about this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Ted_Noten_Grandma's_Bag_Revisited_2009.jpg/1182px-Ted_Noten_Grandma's_Bag_Revisited_2009.jpg03:13
whitequarknot sure about discarding03:28
whitequarkbut you might as well pour it into the air and set on fire03:28
whitequarkthe result will please you03:29
whitequarkworks equally well with fine sugar ;)03:29
whitequark(leather bags) for what reason?03:30
wpwrakdust + oxygen + fire ... yeah, the life of any party ;)03:31
wpwrak(leather) oh, because animals had to die for it ...03:32
whitequarkah, that.03:32
wpwraknow let's see if thermal expansion can help me to make these case parts fit without a fight ...03:34
paul_boddieHello! Just got a NanoNote. Anyone mind if I try and tidy up the Wiki a bit? It was a bit frustrating finding out what I needed to know when reflashing the thing.14:17
wolfspra1lplease feel free!14:17
paul_boddieI put a plan of action here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/User:PaulBoddie14:17
wolfspra1lI'm just about to go to sleep, but good to see you here and hope to see you more!14:17
paul_boddieI'm also looking out for a way of contributing build fixes. Maybe there's a page for that.14:18
wolfspra1lsorry but I'm just too tired now, calling it a day and n8...14:18
paul_boddieGoodnight! :-)14:18
wpwrakthe wiki is a mess. bringing a bit of structure in it will be a very welcome change. thanks ! :)14:27
paul_boddieSome things are somewhat contradictory. The hardware USB BOOT mode doesn't need the contacts shorted until the power button is pressed, but the recipes given are slightly different on that and other matters.14:29
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