| wpwrak | cladamw: heya ! i have a new idea for things like QFP | 01:14 |
|---|---|---|
| cladamw | wpwrak, good morning ! yes. | 01:15 |
| wpwrak | cladamw: i found IPC 7351. they have actually very nice formulas for going from the package definition to footprints | 01:15 |
| wpwrak | so instead of defining the footprint parameters directly, we could probably just calculate them from the package parameters | 01:15 |
| wpwrak | that should avoid all the ugly guesswork | 01:16 |
| wpwrak | also, IPC 7351 defines variations of parameters. so for each package, you could get at least three differently sized footprints. of course, fped could also make these three variants. | 01:17 |
| wpwrak | these variations may explain why we get so different patterns from different companies, even though all claim to use exactly the same standards | 01:17 |
| wpwrak | doing things this way will benefit from fped having a few new features which i'm adding these days. i think i have solved the nastier bits already, but there's still 1-2 more days of work to do. | 01:19 |
| wpwrak | so i'm not sure if it makes sense for you to work on qfp.fpd at the moment, since it should become obsolete very soon | 01:20 |
| wpwrak | (well, not entirely obsolete. but its internal logic would change a lot) | 01:20 |
| cladamw | (obsolete) hmm ... good and also bad. :) | 01:20 |
| cladamw | so Fped will meet IPC 7351 and try to have features with three variations option ? | 01:22 |
| cladamw | will new Fped impact all your existing *.fpd ? | 01:22 |
| wpwrak | (IPC) yes, that's the idea | 01:22 |
| wpwrak | all the old things will still work | 01:23 |
| wpwrak | it's just that a few new features will make it a lot easier to construct the things according to IPC7351. for example, i've added a rounding function. and i'm extending the functionality of tables. | 01:24 |
| wpwrak | have you read the whole README yet ? | 01:24 |
| cladamw | i see, but i think that i still can work on SOIC and else, just later to change a little. | 01:24 |
| cladamw | you committed new info on README ? | 01:24 |
| cladamw | checking ... | 01:24 |
| wpwrak | SOIC may be quite similar to QFP. SSOP certainly will be. so that would come after. | 01:25 |
| wpwrak | yes, there's a bit of new stuff in README | 01:25 |
| wpwrak | lemme push all the changes (the last bit is still incomplete) | 01:25 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: test/floor: add two real-life-like rounding problems (mil to mm) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/9115444 | 01:25 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: add %iprint, to track variables during instantiation (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/3c39600 | 01:25 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: introduce keyed tables (?var syntax; WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/3488cf8 | 01:25 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: test/tsort: fix permission (wasn't excecutable) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/101bd11 | 01:25 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, btw, i don't like the marker inside outline frame. | 01:25 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, sure. | 01:26 |
| wpwrak | (marker) it's a tricky thing. i put it there so that it doesn't get in the way. e.g., if you want to put some pad / TP near the component, then the marker on the silk would get in the way | 01:26 |
| cladamw | a marker like for dip, qfn or qfp is good | 01:26 |
| wpwrak | (marker) but of course, there's the problem that it is hidden when you place the component | 01:27 |
| cladamw | yes, it's a tricky, but i just like to tell you that smt machine use a outer marker better than inside the area of footprint it picks and places it. :-) | 01:28 |
| wpwrak | (smt machine) ah, that's interesting. didn't know that | 01:28 |
| wpwrak | maybe we should make it really small then :) | 01:29 |
| cladamw | since a inner marker is useless and smt technician will use fiducial and offset for placing (i.e. smt needs to calibrate offset.) no good. | 01:29 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, no problem ,when i build new *.fpd, I'll always make marker to be outside. :) | 01:30 |
| cladamw | and smaller. | 01:30 |
| wpwrak | regarding naming, components would have names like QFP32-MS026BBA-B. QFP for the general shape, 32 for the number of pins, MS26BBA for the JEDEC standard that defines the package parameters, and B for the density | 01:31 |
| cladamw | aha ... sounds good naming | 01:31 |
| wpwrak | density is how the package parameters get translated to the footprint. A makes a large footprint, B a medium one, C a tiny one | 01:31 |
| cladamw | this three features makes me remembered that om ivorin used C tiny one for phone footprints. :-) | 01:33 |
| wpwrak | yeah, the OM phones were very tightly packed :) | 01:34 |
| wpwrak | now, the new features in fped: | 01:35 |
| cladamw | it was reasonable, but for a referenced-likely plateform hw, an alternative option to choose function in Fped is good direction. | 01:35 |
| wpwrak | - first, when you change the current row in a table and if that table influences what package is being defined (like in qfn.fpd or qfp.fpd), then fped will try to automatically select that package for you | 01:36 |
| wpwrak | so you no longer need to go up to the list of packages and synchronize with the table all the time | 01:36 |
| wpwrak | (density) fped would simply generate all the variants. then it's up to designer of the pcb to choose which footprint size they like. | 01:37 |
| wpwrak | - next feature: i added a function called floor(). it rounds its argument to the next lowest integer. e.g., floor(2.1) would be 2 | 01:38 |
| wpwrak | you can also use it to do things like rounding to 0.1 mm as follows: given a dimension X, you would the the rounded value with floor(X/0.1mm)*0.1mm | 01:39 |
| wpwrak | the nice thing is that it doesn't matter whether X is in mm or mil | 01:39 |
| cladamw | okay. | 01:39 |
| wpwrak | s/the the/get the/ | 01:39 |
| cladamw | do i need to update Fped now to use ? or one ~ too days later ? | 01:40 |
| wpwrak | - and the next feature (unfinished): you can tell fped that a column in the table doesn't define a variable but synchronizes with a variable defined elsewhere instead | 01:40 |
| wpwrak | this currently only works in a script, not in the GUI (the GUI should do the right thing, but you can't edit this) | 01:41 |
| cladamw | alright, so i think that i update new Fped once you let me know it's done. :-) | 01:42 |
| wpwrak | this mechanism would allow you to do two things: 1) split a large table into multiple tables, and 2) if you have parameters that apply to multiple entires in the table, you can assign a unique key and use that | 01:42 |
| cladamw | (unfinished feature) that one yes i feel it's nice. I like it. :-) | 01:43 |
| wpwrak | it's basically what is called an "inner join" in relational databases | 01:44 |
| cladamw | btw, do you know that how many people used your Fped so far ? | 01:44 |
| cladamw | (inner join) i can imagine its work. :) | 01:45 |
| wpwrak | it'll be useful for the IPC calculations, because there are sets of parameters that change a bit with chip dimensions, but each set applies to many dimensions. so instead of repeating the set of parameters a dozen times, you'd just have one entry in a separate table and put the index in the table with all the chips | 01:45 |
| wpwrak | there are examples of the floor() function in the regression tests, here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/test/floor | 01:46 |
| wpwrak | and for the tables, a few examples here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/test/keys | 01:46 |
| wpwrak | the syntax ?variable_name in a table means that this column is a key. so in the first example, the first table sets "a" to the values 1 or 2 and in the second table, only the corresponding entries are selected. the end result is a translation from english to german :) | 01:49 |
| cladamw | (inner join) nice "Mapping" method. :) | 01:51 |
| wpwrak | yeah :) i've been thinking of this for a very long time. and now i finally figured out how to do it :) | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | the implementation is not extremely efficient (fped first produces all the combinations and then rejects the ones that don't match), but modern PC are fast :) | 01:54 |
| cladamw | i thought Fped in the end can generate mostly footprints that industry use then it's enough, in the other hand Fped becomes not only for footprint generations&review purpose, could be also for next your generation tool of 2D or 2.5D ancestor. | 02:00 |
| wpwrak | yes, for simple 2D it's quite nice. for 2.5D, i'm not convinceed. i have a 2.5D design made with fped, but it's a bit confusing | 02:04 |
| wpwrak | (simple 2D) as long as you don't need things like tangents, measure angles, and so on. e.g., making M1 front and rear plates was fun and easy. roh probably suffered a lot more with qcad ;) | 02:05 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Adam Wang: added SOIC footprints: 8, 14 and 16 pins. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/f077efe | 05:54 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: gui_frame.c: display a question mark before variables used as key (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/326a480 | 05:58 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: support switching variables between assignment and key (WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4c3dea7 | 05:58 |
| LunaVorax | Hi everyone | 07:43 |
| xiangfu | LunaVorax, Hi | 07:46 |
| viric | hello | 07:48 |
| viric | hm question about the linux scheduler... what can give a loadavg of 90, and 'top' showing 99% idle? | 07:49 |
| LunaVorax | Hi xiangfu | 07:54 |
| lindi- | viric: processes in disk sleep | 07:55 |
| viric | they are counted in loadavg? I suspected so. | 07:56 |
| lindi- | viric: yes, it is the average number of processes that are not in S state | 07:56 |
| viric | ah, *not in S* | 07:57 |
| viric | I thought it would be in R state | 07:57 |
| viric | lindi-: and if that happens with disk not doing activity? (by HD led) | 08:14 |
| lindi- | viric: it can be a bug? | 08:14 |
| viric | I thought so... I dumped the task states, and some were blocked at reiserfs code calling some timeouts or so | 08:15 |
| viric | concurrency bugs in disk code can appear that way in loadavg I imagine | 08:15 |
| lindi- | viric: yeah if this is reproducible you might want to test with some other fs | 08:15 |
| viric | not reproducible anymore. moo. :) | 08:16 |
| viric | thank you a lot | 08:16 |
| viric | very enlightening. | 08:16 |
| viric | lindi-: qemu uses 21 threads to do disk IO, for a single VM. | 08:34 |
| jivs | Hello xiangfu, | 09:02 |
| xiangfu | jivs, Hi | 09:04 |
| jivs | Have u had chance to try the updated guile2 on your system? | 09:04 |
| jivs | it should compile fine now. please let me know if there is any issue. | 09:05 |
| xiangfu | jivs, great. | 09:06 |
| xiangfu | jivs, the build host will report that in next ~30 hours. and I am compiling that now. | 09:07 |
| jivs | okay great... | 09:07 |
| jivs | thanks xiangfu for the quick merge | 09:12 |
| viric | do you use guile2 in the nanonote? | 09:14 |
| xiangfu | under nanonote guile is 1.8.7. | 09:29 |
| xiangfu | guile2 will included in next release. :) | 09:30 |
| viric | ah ok | 09:30 |
| xiangfu | viric, I only show people that there is guile in Nanonote. I don't know much about guile. | 09:30 |
| viric | my question was more for jivs, I imagined he cares on guile there. | 09:30 |
| viric | some time ago, I helped one guile2 maintainer ensure it works in the nanonote. :) | 09:31 |
| viric | not for openwrt, but for nix, of course | 09:31 |
| jivs | hi viric | 09:31 |
| jivs | guile2 runs in nanonote now | 09:32 |
| viric | in openwrt in the nanonote you mean | 09:32 |
| jivs | it will be included in the next release as xiangfu | 09:34 |
| jivs | yes openwrt | 09:34 |
| xiangfu | I got a configure error: configure: error: building Guile 2.0.5 but `/usr/bin/guile' has version 1.8.8" | 10:14 |
| jivs_ | xiangfu: let me rerun that on my system without guile on the host | 10:53 |
| jivs_ | it may have bypassed on mine because of that | 10:54 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, how to use arc in Fped ? center, start and end point, but how to drag ? I found it always a circle. so must be the steps I made wrong. | 11:04 |
| LunaVorax | Oh seriously guys | 11:04 |
| LunaVorax | Piwik stats on http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Piwik_stats requires flash? | 11:04 |
| LunaVorax | :( | 11:04 |
| wpwrak | cladamw: yo ufirst make a circle. then you drag the radius point | 13:10 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, hehe ... i just knew how to use it already but thanks. :-) | 13:11 |
| wpwrak | i guessed at much :) | 13:13 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Adam Wang: ir.fpd: added IR receiver footprint (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e92838c | 13:17 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, I've not named a good name for this IR, still gaved a TSOP348 same from Vishay's series. we can rename it later. :-) | 13:19 |
| cladamw | tomorrow's work to edit JS28F256J3F105 footprint TSOP-56 and TO-252, etc. :) | 13:22 |
| cladamw | wpwrak, i go off line. 886 | 13:23 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: fix whitespace anomalies (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/f2d3986 | 15:16 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: make variable type changes also commit the value (name) being edited (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/5d76af2 | 15:16 |
| viric | mth: I think the mplayer "-vo v4l2" expects a hw mpeg decoder at its end | 15:30 |
| mth | it doesn't check capabilities and settle for just YUV decoding if that's all that is available? | 15:33 |
| viric | I don't think so. the docs specify mpeg decoder. | 15:34 |
| viric | what about 'vidix'? | 15:34 |
| viric | hm isn't vidix what dvdk used? | 15:36 |
| viric | I can't remember | 15:36 |
| viric | vidix looks like a very old thing | 15:36 |
| mth | I haven't looked into dvdk's code yet, I've only heard it described | 15:37 |
| viric | mth: I just found http://gumstix.8.n6.nabble.com/DSS2-Patches-V4L2-Video-Drivers-td652897.html | 15:42 |
| viric | unrelated hw, but seems to do something with v4l2 | 15:42 |
| mth | it mentions overlays, but it's hard to make out more without deeper study | 15:45 |
| viric | yes. | 15:45 |
| viric | it's about using a TI omap as display afaiu | 15:45 |
| viric | as some image processing unit | 15:46 |
| viric | but with v4l2 interface | 15:46 |
| viric | I'd like to know what userland tools they have, sending to it | 15:46 |
| qi-bot | The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120527-1148 | 17:41 |
| --- Tue May 29 2012 | 00:00 | |
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