#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2012-03-27

qi-botThe build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120325-2303 01:11
xiangfuhmm...01:13
wolfspraulxiangfu: hey good morning :-)01:13
xiangfugood morning.01:14
wolfspraulgood morning dear troubles01:14
wolfspraul:-)01:14
wolfspraul(reference to the failing build)01:14
xiangfuI work on the build host yesterday. update the config file. include package that fixed. 01:17
xiangfulet's wait next build. 01:17
xiangfuI have added those 2 usb device to http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_accessories#USB. 01:18
xiangfuno picture yet. too late yesterday. I will upload 2 pictures and put more information in that page. 01:19
wolfspraulah yes, nice01:19
wolfspraulwe should document a number of usb devices and why they do not work01:19
wolfspraulas inspiration and todo list, if an interested hacker comes along01:19
wolfspraulwhat do we have?01:19
wolfspraulusb speakers01:19
wolfspraulusb audio cards/mic01:20
wolfspraulusb video capture and tv as you have there01:20
wolfspraulusb-midi, already working to a degree01:20
wolfspraulusb storage01:20
wolfspraulusb webcam01:20
wolfspraulwhat else?01:21
wolfspraulusb-ethernet maybe for completeness, although m1 has a built-in ethernet of course01:21
wolfspraulof course usb mice & kbd, we have those already01:22
wolfspraulusb-wifi01:22
wolfspraulthere's some nice and cheap tablets like the wacom tablets (but cheap no-name)01:23
wolfspraulyeah01:23
wolfspraulenough :-)01:23
wolfspraulfor most of those we just document that and why they don't work :-)01:23
cladamwwpwrak, i think that the symbol of Varistor i didn't use common one in AD m1r4 sch, in KiCad, its varistor is the same as Wikipedia, but TDK uses a different one from its datasheet. so what would you suggest ?01:48
wolfspraulWikipedia01:51
wolfspraul(without looking at either one)01:52
wolfspraulwhen in doubt, reuse and make references to stuff on wikipedia01:52
wolfspraulif we do something different and follow a vendor, we must be really sure about that, then it's ok01:52
wolfspraullet's see what werner says about the specific symbol :-)01:52
wpwrakhmm, what would be the wikipedia symbol ? i don't see any on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor01:53
cladamwwpwrak, page 3 of http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/e9c11_avr.pdf  , page 22 of http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Product_Catalogs/Littelfuse_Varistors_Catalog.pdf01:54
cladamwif you clicked in Chinese version wikipedia, see http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A3%93%E6%95%8F%E9%9B%BB%E9%98%BB01:54
wpwrak;-))01:55
wpwrakcompare this with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor01:56
cladamwWikipedia is the same symbol as Littlefuse, but still not the same as KiCad part "VR" component in library: /library/device.lib01:56
cladamwman ! i think that Chinese Wikipedia is unreliable. :-)01:57
wpwrakhmm, varistor = overvoltage protection. thermistor = overcurrent protection. don't confuse the two :)01:57
wpwrak"VR" may be just the symbol for a general variable resistor of unspecified nature. lemme check ...01:58
cladamwyeah....but they are easy to confuse. so I think when I create new symbol that I should follow vendor's symbol, how do you think ?01:58
cladamwKiCad calls "VARISTANCE" in its "Description"01:59
cladamwnow i think those *.dcm file, we should always to fill p/n, description, datasheet link, then in Library Editor it will show up very good information.02:00
cladamweg. : http://dpaste.com/721899/02:02
cladamweg. : http://dpaste.com/721901/02:03
cladamwsaid that we could have different projects with different vendor p/n, the *.dcm file is good to fill up specific datasheet link, description, p/n.02:04
cladamwthen load that component into KiCad Library Editor, it shows directly into GUI.02:05
wpwrakIEC has S00558 for voltage-dependent resistors. but note the "U"02:05
cladamw(i.e.) your boom should directly generate datasheet link to find parts in Digikey from *.dcm file02:05
wpwraki wouldn't maintain such information in .dcm. they're too messy to edit02:06
wpwrakbetter have a separate file with human-friendly text. like the BOOKSHELF files02:06
wpwrakthen populate .dcm with a script if necessary. note that you'll probably lose local caching this way, though02:06
cladamwwell...since I am editing those new components for m1r4, I can still fill them into *.dcm file, since KiCad uses it(fields) for part information to fill up.02:07
wpwrakyes, but good luck finding _the_ data sheet for, say, varistors ;-)02:07
cladamwso how do you think that i directly to use vendor's symbol ?02:08
wpwrakcool. IEC have no thermistor, no PTC, no NTC. no surprise there's such a chaos02:10
cladamwhmm....i think that I follow the vendor datasheets to create 'varistors.lib' to include different vendor varistors, they will be added into varistors.dcm & varistors.lib :-)02:11
cladamwi lilke to do this way if you still against ?02:12
cladamw:-)02:12
cladamwwe're not a super team on parts management in naming whole libraries systems. ;-) I would speed up to append. then we sometimes or later to clean up ?02:14
wpwraki think the two symbols represent different technologies and different physical principles to arrive at the same result02:15
wpwraksince we often don't care what technology is inside the chip, we have a 50% chance of getting the symbol right :)02:16
cladamwyes, so they may be just suffering from patent conflicts.02:17
wpwrakno, not that. it's just different physics02:19
cladamwi think the library for chip varistors, maybe i just call it "chipvaristors.lib', is that okay to you ?02:19
wpwraksome use the Zener effect, others use some other effect. there are many ways to get something to conduct when there's overvoltage. spark gaps, anyone ? ;-)02:19
cladamwwhatever their physics, they are the varistors. :-)02:20
cladamwi am thinking the qi's libraries(components/modules). How we gather/collect those parts we're using now. :-)02:22
wpwrakhere we have all the technologies: http://www.learnemc.com/tutorials/Transient_Protection/t-protect.html02:22
wpwraksee, there's more than one way to do this :)02:23
cladamwhe, nice link.02:24
wpwrakthe IEC symbol would be like the kicad symbol or maybe even the thermistor symbol (it's very poorly drawn), but with an U letter on the side02:25
wpwraki've never seen this used in practice02:25
wpwrakhttp://www.talkingelectronics.com/CctSymbols/Circuit_Symbols.html02:27
wpwrakuses the kicad symbol02:27
wpwrakand even shows the Zener equivalence02:28
cladamwmmm...left one is the same as TDK's symbol.02:29
wpwrakseems to be the best compromise02:29
wpwrakthey have a total of three variants ;-) also the one from the chinese wikipedia. and weird Z(orro?)-shaped one02:31
wpwrakwell, that's the same as TDK's02:32
wpwraknever saw that anywhere else either02:32
wpwrakby the way, there's about half a dozen IEC symbols for spark gaps ;-)))02:32
cladamwyeah...great link, so we can take this url for example to create/naming  libraries, okay ?02:35
wpwrakokay. it's a start :)02:40
cladamwgreat, thanks for your great surf skills in google. ;-)02:41
cladamwso for (V24), i should use a name for Voltage Dependent Resistor, i.e. vdr.lib02:43
wpwrakeverybody seems to use varistor ...02:46
cladamwphew~ alright, name it as 'varistor.lib' ;-)02:47
wolfspraulsurf skills :-)02:49
wpwrakand now, dinner-eating skills :)02:52
xiangfuA New Milkymist Firmware Release: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_Firmware#2012-03-2705:56
xiangfuI am still testing...05:56
xiangfuso far so good :-)05:56
xiangfuthe MIC boost make Mic works much better then before.05:57
kyakxiangfu: hi! i think we need to disable xfce repo in feeds.conf for good. Only need to have qi-packages, packages, desktop and xorg. What do you think?06:06
xiangfukyak, already disabled. :)06:06
kyakgreat :)06:06
kyaknow we just wait till we hit the qt4 compilation issue...06:06
kyakah, mirko has fixed it.. great06:07
kyakxiangfu: i tried to have a look an ncursesw problem.. This is magic.. Do you mind i paste you something in pm in order not to clutter the channel?06:08
xiangfukyak, ok06:08
xiangfukyak, just send them to me 06:08
xiangfucladamw, here. I just upload a new release. that I am testing...06:11
xiangfucladamw, if this M1 is for ship out. please reflash again. 06:12
xiangfuI just fixed the 'latest' symlink.06:12
cladamwxiangfu, oah..okay, i tried it again. :-)06:12
xiangfureflash again with 'reflash_m1.sh --qi --data', if if for ship out don't forget reflash the mac address.06:12
cladamwsure. ;-)06:13
xiangfuthere is a MIC improve. :-)06:14
xiangfuin next release. 06:14
cladamwxiangfu, aha...okay.. btw, i recorded my steps here: https://github.com/adamwang/script/blob/master/m1_reflash_steps06:14
cladamwsince sometimes if steps of reflash for ship out has been changed, i have to record myself though. :-)06:15
xiangfucool :)06:15
xiangfuwatched. :)06:16
cladamwno need to watch that. it's my own tool. :-) well...since my steps will always comes from you. you know that i still can't interpret/understand script. :-O06:17
cladamwI'll just ping you when i get stuck. :)06:19
xiangfuok 06:21
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: nanonote-files: config.full_system use DirectFB as drawing-backend (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/37a4be206:58
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: package: ncurses: fix the libncursesw disappears when select some package thanks to kyak (release_2012-03-18) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/657d4c707:23
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: package: ncurses: fix the libncursesw disappears when select some package thanks to kyak (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c475dd507:24
xiangfukyak, https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/11188 <--- reported. 07:47
xiangfuthanks again 07:47
qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: added few symbols (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/c903a7a12:49
jluistop13:16
mirkois somebody using python on the nanonote?14:31
mirkoif so, are you willing to test the following python-upgrade with the apps you use? - https://dev.openwrt.org/raw-attachment/ticket/11157/python-2.7.3rc2.diff14:34
mirkowolfspraul: ping16:46
mirkolarsc: ping16:46
larscmirko: pong19:47
whitequark121 minute rtt19:49
larscwell, he hasn't received the response yet19:57
Aylalarsc: maybe he's UDP21:31
whitequarklarsc: I have been measuring rtt to you using irc as a zero point21:36
wolfspraulmirko: pong22:58
wolfsprauldidn't he say something about drinking last night? :-)22:59
wpwrakif he's been drinking for the last 6 hours, he may slowly begin to show some effects :)23:10
whitequarkAyla: LOL23:12
whitequarkhttp://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/03/ms-patent/?intcid=story_ribbon23:12
whitequarkwell I advise everybody here to read that23:14
whitequarkvery on topic :D23:14
Aylayeah23:16
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