| wolfspra1l | good morning everybody :-) | 00:27 |
|---|---|---|
| Ayla | good morning | 00:28 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: still there? :-) | 00:39 |
| wolfspra1l | what's up lately? are you still supporting the Dingoo? any exciting news there? | 00:39 |
| Ayla | yes, still here | 00:39 |
| Ayla | and yes, there are exciting news | 00:39 |
| Ayla | like, all the time | 00:39 |
| wolfspra1l | good | 00:39 |
| wolfspra1l | shoot! ;-) | 00:39 |
| Ayla | my bootloader is now able to boot linux on Dingoo from the NAND | 00:40 |
| Ayla | (formatted with UBI) | 00:40 |
| wolfspra1l | great! | 00:40 |
| wolfspra1l | sounds to me like that was possible for a while on the NanoNote - were you able to look at or reuse some codes? | 00:41 |
| Ayla | actually I used a lot of code from booboo's hwinit | 00:41 |
| kristianpaul | morning | 00:41 |
| kristianpaul | or hi :) | 00:41 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: what it booboo's hwinit? url? | 00:42 |
| Ayla | it's a program which inits the hardware | 00:42 |
| wolfspra1l | kristianpaul: how's GPS? how about the switch to Maxim? | 00:42 |
| wolfspra1l | I would like to understand it - have you decided to move over to a Maxim chip? | 00:42 |
| wolfspra1l | if so - let's do it! let's make GPS real... :-) | 00:43 |
| Ayla | wolfspra1l: http://code.google.com/p/dingoo-linux/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fhwinit | 00:43 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: thanks! | 00:43 |
| Ayla | AFAIK uboot (and therefore the NanoNote) cannot load a linux kernel from UBI | 00:43 |
| wolfspra1l | is that so? indeed the kernel is not in UBI on the Ben | 00:43 |
| wolfspra1l | but I thought that was a deliberate choice | 00:44 |
| wolfspra1l | but not sure, it's possible | 00:44 |
| wolfspra1l | then it's even better to have this link and your work | 00:44 |
| Ayla | my bootloader is https://github.com/Ayla-/UBIBoot/ | 00:44 |
| Ayla | it probably works on NanoNote too, who knows | 00:44 |
| kristianpaul | Maxim, not swtiched yet but is on the plan | 00:45 |
| Ayla | the second improvement I made lately, is the ability to change the ILI93xx panel at runtime through sysfs | 00:46 |
| wolfspra1l | you mean disconnect and reconnect? | 00:46 |
| wolfspra1l | kristianpaul: does that mean the Maxim fully replaces need for the SiGe chip? | 00:46 |
| wolfspra1l | so we all just focus on Maxim going forward? | 00:47 |
| kristianpaul | yes it evetually replace sige chip | 00:47 |
| Ayla | wolfspra1l, in software, yes | 00:47 |
| xiangfu | Ayla, yes. u-boot support load kernel from UBI under nanonote. but by default still load kernel from raw nand data. | 00:48 |
| kristianpaul | and move forward, yes, comapre later | 00:48 |
| kristianpaul | compare* | 00:48 |
| wolfspra1l | don't understand. you mean compare the two? | 00:48 |
| wolfspra1l | but it seems you already like the Maxim better? | 00:48 |
| Ayla | xiangfu: is that recent? IIRC last time I looked uboot wasn't able to load a kernel from UBI | 00:49 |
| Ayla | only jffs2 or raw | 00:49 |
| wolfspra1l | I have no problem at all in switching, not much to 'switch' anyway, just want to support you and whatever you like better is what I will go for. | 00:49 |
| kristianpaul | yes sure, the comparison is not a priority | 00:49 |
| xiangfu | Ayla, from 'Image 2011-02-23' | 00:49 |
| wolfspra1l | I somehow feel the urge to make a working product though that includes GPS :-) | 00:49 |
| wolfspra1l | and it seems thanks to the work of kristianpaul artyom etc we can soon be crazy enough to try!? :-) | 00:50 |
| xiangfu | "F4 will load kernel inside the ubi rootfs of nand.(we need put kernel at /boot/uImage)" but it's very slow compare to raw nand data | 00:50 |
| kristianpaul | and i like maxim, yes, its avaliable documentation is better than the non-public one i got for sige | 00:50 |
| wolfspra1l | perfect | 00:50 |
| wolfspra1l | that's a big deal for us | 00:50 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspra1l: also the Takuji Ebinuma works | 00:50 |
| Ayla | xiangfu: great. Then I don't feel bad about creating a new bootloader :) | 00:50 |
| wolfspra1l | who is that? | 00:50 |
| kristianpaul | he ported namutu to its nios II soc ;) | 00:51 |
| Ayla | it was mostly for educational purposes | 00:51 |
| kristianpaul | namuru* | 00:51 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspra1l: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/osqzss/e/af7fe0fe97a2c6b886fdb849efcd6c6f?fm=rss | 00:51 |
| kristianpaul | he was trying milkymist, dunno was happened.. | 00:52 |
| kristianpaul | or may be i tought i was.. dont remenber that at all.. | 00:52 |
| wolfspra1l | wow, so great we get the name from you! thanks! | 00:52 |
| kristianpaul | and he uses maxim too, i think we have too many confirmations already ;) | 00:52 |
| wolfspra1l | I think I want to make an extra effort to document better where stuff comes from, from whom we use what, etc. | 00:52 |
| kristianpaul | he yes currently bit messy | 00:53 |
| wolfspra1l | yes, the reason for sige at the beginning was simply that this 1 guy who promised to go open but since then seems to have disappeared said he liked sige better than maxim | 00:53 |
| wolfspra1l | but since he also seems to like closedness better than openess, let's all move to the happy open maxim camp and have fun | 00:53 |
| wolfspra1l | and done | 00:53 |
| wolfspra1l | :-) | 00:53 |
| kristianpaul | :-) | 00:53 |
| wolfspra1l | Takuji Ebinuma... he knows about Milkymist SoC already - good | 00:54 |
| wolfspra1l | maybe it's interesting for him, maybe not | 00:54 |
| kristianpaul | i cannot get he proper feedback for him | 00:54 |
| kristianpaul | i'll try later what happened | 00:55 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: I think it's safe to say that *nothing* can match the experience of doing your own thing, in this case a UBI bootloader | 00:55 |
| wolfspra1l | is he living in Japan? | 00:55 |
| wolfspra1l | how's his English? | 00:55 |
| kristianpaul | dunno | 00:55 |
| Ayla | yes, definitely | 00:55 |
| wolfspra1l | sometimes I wonder whether it makes sense to write in English and include a copy/pasted Japanese snippet out of google translate under it :-) | 00:55 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: what do you use your Dingoo for mostly? | 00:56 |
| kristianpaul | his englihs looks good to me | 00:56 |
| kristianpaul | english* | 00:56 |
| kristianpaul | i had crossed several mails with Takuji Ebinuma | 00:56 |
| Ayla | wolfspra1l: coding stuff on it, almost exclusively | 00:57 |
| kristianpaul | he also talked about a source code published... still now news ;) | 00:57 |
| wolfspra1l | nice! anything we can use on the Ben as well? | 00:57 |
| wolfspra1l | yeah, I can imagine | 00:57 |
| wolfspra1l | I know little about Japan, but if it's anything close to China, there are probably massively other cultural misunderstandings than a simple 'translation' of text manages to overcome | 00:58 |
| wolfspra1l | we have to live with that and try to understand each other as much as that is possible | 00:58 |
| Ayla | wolfspra1l: you already do use them :) | 00:58 |
| wolfspra1l | and slowly it will get better :-) | 00:58 |
| wolfspra1l | Ayla: oh :-) | 00:58 |
| Ayla | qi-kernel, gmenu2x | 00:58 |
| wolfspra1l | well of course | 00:59 |
| kristianpaul | wolfspra1l: are you suscribed to the osmo-sdr list? | 00:59 |
| wolfspra1l | no I don't think so | 01:00 |
| wolfspra1l | lemme see :-) | 01:00 |
| wolfspra1l | if the traffic is not too high I will add it | 01:00 |
| kristianpaul | is not too hihg and when get mails very interesting topics | 01:00 |
| wolfspra1l | I can imagine, it's a wonderful project | 01:00 |
| wolfspra1l | subscribed :-) thanks! | 01:02 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 01:02 |
| wolfspra1l | do you have the Maxim chip already? | 01:02 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 01:02 |
| wolfspra1l | anything I can do to help? | 01:02 |
| kristianpaul | not yet :) | 01:03 |
| wolfspra1l | alright... standby then | 01:04 |
| wolfspra1l | we should do something mobile, or with a simple battery-powered solution | 01:04 |
| wolfspra1l | like one of those USB phone recharger thingies | 01:05 |
| wolfspra1l | I continue to be amazed at how little power my entire m1 setup needs | 01:05 |
| wolfspra1l | the m1 itself - 5W | 01:05 |
| wolfspra1l | my laser projector - 5W | 01:05 |
| wolfspra1l | camera - 1.2W | 01:05 |
| wolfspra1l | wifi dongle - 0.5W | 01:05 |
| kristianpaul | I like Takuji Ebinuma's maxin receiver board, will be nice manufacture some | 01:06 |
| kristianpaul | afaik not very public details about it, may be you can write him? | 01:07 |
| kristianpaul | is 5W battery-powered ready? i mean worth to battery | 01:07 |
| wolfspra1l | tell me more | 01:07 |
| wolfspra1l | url? | 01:07 |
| wolfspra1l | well, the laser projector ships with a battery ;-) | 01:07 |
| kristianpaul | oh | 01:08 |
| kristianpaul | how long last? | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | but of course battery will still run down quickly | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | 1-1.5h maybe | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | but wait, that's not my point | 01:08 |
| kristianpaul | ah | 01:08 |
| kristianpaul | i'm lost | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | power consumption will continue to go down | 01:08 |
| kristianpaul | http://blog.goo.ne.jp/osqzss/e/1bfd7a2cc9bb93b989e9440dbe4fed20 <-- tell mroe | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | no, I wasn't clear | 01:08 |
| wolfspra1l | so let's say I want to put all this stuff into a portable box, and put some batteries into that box as well | 01:09 |
| wolfspra1l | I can lug 10 AA batteries around, no problem :-) | 01:09 |
| wolfspra1l | right now we are a little unflexible on the power side | 01:09 |
| wolfspra1l | we ship m1 with that switching power supply and that's it | 01:09 |
| wolfspra1l | that is fine today, but how about tomorrow? | 01:09 |
| wolfspra1l | M1 needs 5V, that's good. can probably hook it up to one of those USB phone recharger battery packs - I should try | 01:10 |
| wolfspra1l | not for a real application, just for fun now :-) | 01:10 |
| kristianpaul | ah ok | 01:10 |
| kristianpaul | i tought was for real, my bad ;) | 01:10 |
| wolfspra1l | is that a blog you think we should add to the Qi planet? | 01:11 |
| wolfspra1l | checking... | 01:11 |
| wolfspra1l | sure for real, but as an experiment now | 01:11 |
| wolfspra1l | has to start somewhere... | 01:11 |
| wolfspra1l | he, I see a URL on the picture there :-) | 01:12 |
| wolfspra1l | oshugnss.blogspot.com | 01:12 |
| wolfspra1l | firing up my freedom network... :-) | 01:12 |
| kristianpaul | but blog dont load | 01:12 |
| wolfspra1l | what do you mean with "tell mroe"? | 01:13 |
| kristianpaul | anyway, my point is we should have a maxin board for gps receiver | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | yeah, indeed | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | how strange is that | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | well as I told you :-) | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | the culture... | 01:13 |
| kristianpaul | ok | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | of someone goes to the great length of silkscreening a url on a pcb, you would think they register (for free) the corresponding blog? :-) | 01:13 |
| wolfspra1l | s/of/if/ | 01:14 |
| wolfspra1l | if of - I think it's clear | 01:14 |
| wolfspra1l | maybe a typo? | 01:14 |
| wolfspra1l | what are you looking for exactly? | 01:14 |
| wolfspra1l | electrical design / bom ? | 01:14 |
| kristianpaul | yes | 01:15 |
| wolfspra1l | looks very simple, can even tell half of it from the picture :-) | 01:15 |
| kristianpaul | we already have Artyom's board | 01:15 |
| kristianpaul | is kicad | 01:15 |
| kristianpaul | not sure bom | 01:15 |
| kristianpaul | but have extra components we dont need | 01:15 |
| wolfspra1l | sure sure, I am not trying to 'take' something, but rather make a contact with this guy and see what we can learn, understand his work, etc. | 01:16 |
| kristianpaul | oh sure ! | 01:16 |
| kristianpaul | DocScrutinizer, said somethim worry me a lot as my ignorance on this field | 01:17 |
| kristianpaul | and is th interference generated from M1 | 01:17 |
| kristianpaul | that can affect the receiver | 01:17 |
| kristianpaul | if we put the antenna near to it | 01:18 |
| kristianpaul | wich is not what happen right now.. | 01:18 |
| kristianpaul | did i explain my selft correctly? | 01:19 |
| kristianpaul | xD | 01:20 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: sorry, ran my battery into the ground | 01:24 |
| kristianpaul | no problem | 01:25 |
| wolfspraul | can you tell me more about the Japanese guy - you emailed him? | 01:25 |
| kristianpaul | he first :) | 01:25 |
| wolfspraul | should we add his blog to the Qi planet? | 01:26 |
| kristianpaul | if you dont mind perhaps, but i feel it lacks a bit more sources | 01:26 |
| kristianpaul | it just tell, okay i'm doing this, or looks that.. | 01:26 |
| kristianpaul | but.. | 01:26 |
| wolfspraul | ok but maybe only some small encouragement is missing | 01:27 |
| kristianpaul | but blog is good | 01:27 |
| kristianpaul | i mean that as a improvement | 01:27 |
| wolfspraul | he may not realize that he has avid readers | 01:27 |
| wolfspraul | and that dead url on the silkscreen... maybe the stuff is somewhere and we just don't find it | 01:28 |
| kristianpaul | perhaps blog is more local, for universiry collegues? etc.. | 01:28 |
| kristianpaul | you read my lines about my concern about M1 and interference ? | 01:28 |
| wolfspraul | no | 01:29 |
| wolfspraul | just now? | 01:29 |
| kristianpaul | DocScrutinizer, mentioned time ago | 01:29 |
| wolfspraul | interference are good problems to work on | 01:29 |
| kristianpaul | i undertood, if have gps atenna near M1 it will lead problems | 01:29 |
| wolfspraul | since we want to make stuff others can use, not a fake prototype/one-off thing with lots of real life bugs | 01:29 |
| kristianpaul | that dint happen right now | 01:29 |
| wolfspraul | oh I'm sure. lots of problems :-) | 01:30 |
| wolfspraul | but we have hope, we have Joerg? :-) | 01:30 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 01:30 |
| wolfspraul | just kidding - eventually we find out the missing pieces to make it work. we are trying to make the best of high-performance open hw, right? | 01:30 |
| wolfspraul | and we need to search the entire world for the very best pieces of wisdom, experience, design, contributors, feedback, what not | 01:30 |
| wolfspraul | it won't be easy | 01:31 |
| wolfspraul | but look how many other good people in that area you already found, I think we are not alone | 01:31 |
| kristianpaul | oh no | 01:31 |
| wolfspraul | that's the whole point of collaborative hw | 01:32 |
| wolfspraul | GPS signals are very weak, the antenna thing will be tough for sure | 01:32 |
| wolfspraul | I try to ignore it for now and put all my hope on finding people smarter than me to help | 01:32 |
| kristianpaul | Okay ;-) | 01:33 |
| kristianpaul | so thats all, in the mean time i try document and organice all i learn about this | 01:34 |
| kristianpaul | and make it work of course :) | 01:34 |
| kristianpaul | osgps rtems port ;) | 01:35 |
| kristianpaul | what remains for a fix | 01:36 |
| wolfspraul | cool | 01:39 |
| wolfspraul | still googling for Takuji Ebinuma's stuff | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | his project is what? to make this board in the picture? | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | does it have a name? | 01:41 |
| kristianpaul | dont know | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | maybe osqzss? | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | or qzss. how do you read his blog? google translate? | 01:42 |
| kristianpaul | yes i translate by google | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | it seems all in Japanese | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | yeah | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | for the Qi planet, we should have a feature to pull things through an auto-translater | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: well, thanks a lot for bringing Takuji's work up here | 01:46 |
| kristianpaul | the least i can do ;) | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | it's perfect. we need to search around more for great open-minded projects to join. | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | and you already ran into a whole bunch over time :-) cool! | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | I added Takuji's blog here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Planet#Blogs_to_watch | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | for now | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | not sure about including in the Qi planet now, people complain if there are too many languages they don't understand | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | we should have an auto-translate feature there | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: do you know this? http://www.sensorcomm.co.jp/osqzss/ | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | seems a bit messy, no license info, etc. :-) | 01:51 |
| Ayla | did you guys receive a mail from github about a security vulnerability? | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | yes | 01:52 |
| Ayla | ok, so it's legit | 01:52 |
| kristianpaul | yes :( | 01:52 |
| kristianpaul | i hate those mails.. anywya | 01:52 |
| kristianpaul | no i dont | 01:52 |
| kristianpaul | let me see | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | it was the news already days ago, legit I would say | 01:53 |
| kristianpaul | messy indeed | 01:58 |
| kristianpaul | ok, company Under Construction!! | 02:00 |
| kristianpaul | :-| | 02:00 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote wav2png: draw lines instead points thanks jirka (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b609209 | 02:10 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: xburst nanonote: fix wpan compile failed under v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/63176f2 | 03:39 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: ks7010: fix compile failed under linux v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b813482 | 04:03 |
| qi-bot | The build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-0446 | 07:12 |
| viric | wpwrak: where is your page about comparing cad tools? | 08:13 |
| wpwrak | viric: the thread is still here: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-July/008476.html | 09:19 |
| viric | I told one to contact you | 09:20 |
| wpwrak | viric: in the end, i wasn't too happy with either | 09:26 |
| wpwrak | viric: i then experimented with moving a line segment along a perpendicular line segment, to generate a surface enclosing a solid: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/cae-tools/source/tree/master/ptrude/ | 09:29 |
| wpwrak | but that didn't go beyond early experiments (i.e., until the point where i realized why it would get complicated :) | 09:30 |
| viric | ok | 09:31 |
| wpwrak | my latest idea is to use fped to produce a series of 2D drawings of "slices" of the 3D object, then construct a 3D object or directly a toolpath from them | 09:32 |
| wpwrak | but for this to be practical, fped needs the ability to reuse points in different frames. right now, points don't cross frames | 09:33 |
| wpwrak | this is still work in progress | 09:33 |
| roh | i think you are reinventing the wheel there. with a ui nobody besides you can use | 09:34 |
| wpwrak | (not too happy with either) openscad is a bit more powerful than cadmium but the resulting meshes were full of problems, particularly if i used subtractive models. cadmium got that right but only had the most primitive of primitives. | 09:35 |
| roh | wpwrak: well. just more reason to fix openscad i think | 09:36 |
| wpwrak | roh: give me a better parametric cad and i'll gladly switch ;-) | 09:36 |
| roh | wpwrak: you know that autocad stated that way and still can do parametrics? | 09:36 |
| wpwrak | roh: besides, fped is used by others (for footprints) | 09:36 |
| roh | fped is really poor compared to any 2d cad i know | 09:37 |
| roh | no harm intended | 09:37 |
| wpwrak | well, it's not designed to be a full cad system :) | 09:37 |
| roh | its a footprint editor, and it may well be a good one, but for 2d cad i cannot even imagine breaking my legs that hard | 09:37 |
| roh | even the utterly broken qcad2.x does a quite well job for 2d cad. | 09:38 |
| wpwrak | oh, try it. it's not that bad :) you'll appreciate its capabilities when you need to adjust some parameters | 09:38 |
| roh | if you can make something which extrudes arbitrary dxf stuff and lets me assemble that, that would help | 09:39 |
| roh | i couldnt get openscad to extrude dxf for me yet | 09:39 |
| wpwrak | one weakness of fped is that it has no geometrical construction besides concatenation of vectors. for "real" cad, you often need a few more operations. and they're messy to do in fped. | 09:40 |
| wpwrak | (extrude dxf) that sounds like my 2D slices | 09:40 |
| roh | i tried extruding dxf with openscad, but it failed on my parts | 09:40 |
| wpwrak | ;-) | 09:41 |
| roh | e.g. if i could make one dxf per sidepanel for the mm1 case, i could extrude and 'assemble' them in only a few lines | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | moo | 09:41 |
| roh | doing the dxf is easy. but openscad has some problems with the parts | 09:41 |
| wpwrak | roh: post the files and ask for help on the openscad list ? | 09:42 |
| wpwrak | or maybe try heekscad ? | 09:42 |
| roh | wpwrak: well.. just use the file in svn, cut everything away besides 'one piece' and save it as new file. | 09:43 |
| wpwrak | not sure if it has extrusion from dxf, though. but it might. | 09:43 |
| roh | then try extruding that in 3mm | 09:43 |
| wpwrak | yes, i understand what you want to do. but you need to explain that to the openscad developers. it's them who might fix it for you :) | 09:44 |
| roh | currently i am not sure if the sw is broken, the manual is wrong or i am too stupid | 09:45 |
| roh | http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/DXF_Extrusion | 09:45 |
| roh | that one doesnt work for me (like loads of stuff in the 'manual' | 09:45 |
| wpwrak | that's what the openscad list is for ;-) i don't think anyone here knows openscad well enough to be able to help you | 09:46 |
| wpwrak | and yes, i think the 2D extrusion approach holds promise | 09:47 |
| roh | well.. only for such simple stuff | 09:48 |
| wpwrak | btw, regarding fped, it's also nice to be able to do things with immediate graphical representation. i do almost all my drawing in the gui, not in the script | 09:48 |
| roh | maybe as a step on the way. but on the long run we need a proper fullfeatured 3d cad | 09:48 |
| wpwrak | yeah. and a parametric one at that | 09:48 |
| roh | currently we are really limiting our doing hard by using bad and broken tools | 09:49 |
| wpwrak | last time i checked, heekscad also has the issue of scripts having only access to a small subset of features | 09:49 |
| roh | heeks is b asically dead | 09:49 |
| wpwrak | is it ? | 09:49 |
| roh | yes. the maintainer said so and most of the people left long ago to other projects. | 09:49 |
| wpwrak | oh, i see | 09:50 |
| roh | its diced for code reuse, but i am happy that nobody wants the ui | 09:50 |
| wpwrak | pity. it looked quite active not too long ago | 09:50 |
| wpwrak | ;-) | 09:50 |
| roh | the ui was unbearable. | 09:50 |
| roh | done by a moron. i mean.. come on.. using a self-built treeview in opengl because due to the use of wxwindows he couldnt use the gtktreeview? | 09:51 |
| roh | which means every time you klick ANYTHING in there it folds up again | 09:51 |
| roh | no keybinding work also. | 09:51 |
| wpwrak | i wouldn't call it "unbearable" :) that ws more my feeling with blender :) | 09:51 |
| roh | in short: a nice example why not to reinvent the wheel when it comes to ui toolkits. you will only fuck up. | 09:52 |
| wpwrak | i found the lack of scriptability more worrying | 09:52 |
| roh | blender is a artists tool. its not intended for mechanical work | 09:52 |
| wpwrak | e.g., how do i go from a 3D model to a toolpath ? click and type a lot ... | 09:53 |
| roh | that you can not avoid. toolpathes cannot be done fully automatic | 09:53 |
| wpwrak | (blender) surreal-masochists ... :) | 09:53 |
| roh | 'artists' | 09:53 |
| roh | ;) | 09:53 |
| wpwrak | i'll gladly manually do every step of the toolpath setup the first time. but then, i don't want to do the damn thing all over again and again and again for each run | 09:54 |
| roh | true. that one should be possible | 09:54 |
| wpwrak | for 2D, i have at least my makefiles for it. i may be the only one who understands how these things works, but they do ;-) | 09:55 |
| roh | regenerating the toolpath after changes should be no problem. that worked even in heeks | 09:55 |
| wpwrak | as far as i recall it didn't save the tooling parameters | 09:56 |
| wpwrak | ah wait, what didn't work was combining that with model generation from a script | 09:57 |
| wpwrak | so maybe you could keep the toolpath parameters but you'd lose parametric modeling | 09:57 |
| roh | yeah. there were inconsistencies between the scripting if and the ui. but that was the result of uncoordinated hacking by different people | 09:58 |
| roh | i think you give 'too much' about the parametric part of it. sure its nice, but in the end it doesnt help a lot | 09:58 |
| wpwrak | anyway, so where did the heekscad people go ? in particular, where did they take the heekscnc engine ? | 09:58 |
| wpwrak | i find parametric extremely important | 09:59 |
| roh | tolerances alone will eat you alive if you think that parametric only will save you | 09:59 |
| roh | i think some went to the pycam and pycad stuff. some to freecad.. not so sure | 09:59 |
| wpwrak | parametric is what lets me compensate for machining tolerances ... | 09:59 |
| roh | no. tolerances are EXTRA in real cad. | 09:59 |
| roh | thats a propery of material | 10:00 |
| wpwrak | and the machine and so on | 10:00 |
| roh | exactly. and in the end, somebody will want some font differently or placed different.... so 'just moving it' is much easier | 10:01 |
| wpwrak | but also the model often needs to accommodate things like clearances. they're often hard to predict precisely. even if the machining is "perfect" | 10:01 |
| roh | there is nothing perfect, even in a cnc world. its always just approximation which will show its quality on first machining | 10:02 |
| wpwrak | you didn't "just move" the holes in the M1 case. i know that you didn't - i reverse-engineered the underlying parametric model ;-) | 10:02 |
| roh | on the m1 case nothing was parametric. its completely done by hand in qcad opensource edition | 10:03 |
| wpwrak | i think it's not harder to make or use a parametric cad than a non-parametric one | 10:04 |
| roh | just because something isnt parametric it doesnt mean i cannot select and group n things and then move em controlled by numbers | 10:04 |
| wpwrak | qcad is anti-parametric. but you had a parametric model in your head when you did the thing | 10:04 |
| wpwrak | yes, and gro(u)ping and moving loses the history. so you no longer know how they ended up where they are | 10:05 |
| roh | nah. not really. i constructed it from measurements and then fixed it in like 6 tries while using a real machine and cheap wood | 10:05 |
| wpwrak | and most 3D cad also completely loses the constructive history. intersect A with B and poof, you get a C. now go and change something in A ... | 10:05 |
| roh | eh.. well.. i keep my dxf files in svn.. so i got a history | 10:05 |
| roh | classic problem. answer is simple: it would b ecome to many objects to keep for real complex models | 10:06 |
| wpwrak | (from measurement) yes. i didn't say it was a complex model :) still, with a little bit of abstraction, i could do things like move connectors around for one-off board variations | 10:06 |
| roh | i know of bmw card models in cad where they modeled the surfaces of knobs and upholstery and even the wire inside of lightbulbs. | 10:07 |
| wpwrak | yeah, sure. the world is soooo complex. let's close our eyes and stay in bed ;-) | 10:07 |
| roh | so you got gazillion of parts in the end. which consist of even more origin parts | 10:07 |
| wpwrak | (bmw) nice :) | 10:07 |
| roh | fix your workflow and you dont need 'all source objects' in your model | 10:08 |
| roh | csg is nice for simple stuff. but in the end its all triangles anyhow | 10:08 |
| wpwrak | i like to experiment. that means that i often have to go back a few steps. without a proper parametric/constructive cad, that means deleting everything and doing it again. possibly lots of times. | 10:09 |
| roh | thats what components are for. | 10:09 |
| wpwrak | and yes, i realize that a lot of people don't have a problem with doing things even a machine would find a little boring | 10:09 |
| wpwrak | you still have the "redo until it fits" problem inside the components | 10:10 |
| wpwrak | and if the components become part of constructive geometry, you still have the same issue if you have to change a component | 10:10 |
| roh | wpwrak: if your tolerances are that small that things do not fit, even in cad, your concept is likely to be fucked | 10:13 |
| roh | reality is a bitch. make enough room for it to breathe | 10:13 |
| wpwrak | i was thinking of things fitting in real life | 10:13 |
| wpwrak | or feeling too loose, etc. | 10:13 |
| wpwrak | i don't have decades of experience in 3D design. so i make a best guess and then improve my model or my tolerances based on it | 10:14 |
| roh | its always trial and error. thats why rapid prototyping helps so much | 10:15 |
| wpwrak | it's subtle things. like whether a panel feels crowded. whether it's prone to operator error to inefficient placing of elemenst. whether connectors are places such that i can plug in things easily | 10:16 |
| wpwrak | and for trial and error i want parametric. qed :) | 10:16 |
| wpwrak | parametric basically lets you record the construction history. that way, it tells you - to some extent - why things are where they are. not just where they are. | 10:17 |
| wpwrak | and a good parametric cad would also now make you waste a lot of time with converting your construction steps into something the cad can process | 10:18 |
| wpwrak | that would also go against the concept - you don't want to hide the forest behind a lot of trees | 10:18 |
| roh | wpwrak: well.. show me a single working 3d cad which doesnt break after a few undo first | 10:24 |
| wpwrak | yeah, it starts even there :) | 10:32 |
| wpwrak | of course, with parametric design, you don't need undo all that often :) | 10:32 |
| wpwrak | e.g., fped has undelete (delete maintains referential integrity, so it can do quite a bit of damage if you're careless), but that's all | 10:33 |
| qi-bot | The build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-1716 | 17:53 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: Drop support for LG LGDP4551 and SPFD5420A Smart LCD panels. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/d42e289 | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: code re-ordering. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c0b8b4d | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: use standard module_param() macro for the 'panel' parameter. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1a7fb60 | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add 'rgb' parameter for ILI9338. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1ee6312 | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add the 'panel' attribute to /sys (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ae56dee | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add the 'rgb' attribute to /sys. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/38763ad | 19:01 |
| qi-bot | The build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-1904 | 19:41 |
| qi-bot | The build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-2051 | 21:28 |
| qi-bot | The build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-2238 | 23:16 |
| --- Fri Mar 9 2012 | 00:00 | |
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