#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2012-03-08

wolfspra1lgood morning everybody :-)00:27
Aylagood morning00:28
wolfspra1lAyla: still there? :-)00:39
wolfspra1lwhat's up lately? are you still supporting the Dingoo? any exciting news there?00:39
Aylayes, still here00:39
Aylaand yes, there are exciting news00:39
Aylalike, all the time00:39
wolfspra1lgood00:39
wolfspra1lshoot! ;-)00:39
Aylamy bootloader is now able to boot linux on Dingoo from the NAND00:40
Ayla(formatted with UBI)00:40
wolfspra1lgreat!00:40
wolfspra1lsounds to me like that was possible for a while on the NanoNote - were you able to look at or reuse some codes?00:41
Aylaactually I used a lot of code from booboo's hwinit00:41
kristianpaulmorning00:41
kristianpaulor hi :)00:41
wolfspra1lAyla: what it booboo's hwinit? url?00:42
Aylait's a program which inits the hardware00:42
wolfspra1lkristianpaul: how's GPS? how about the switch to Maxim?00:42
wolfspra1lI would like to understand it - have you decided to move over to a Maxim chip?00:42
wolfspra1lif so - let's do it! let's make GPS real... :-)00:43
Aylawolfspra1l: http://code.google.com/p/dingoo-linux/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fhwinit00:43
wolfspra1lAyla: thanks!00:43
AylaAFAIK uboot (and therefore the NanoNote) cannot load a linux kernel from UBI00:43
wolfspra1lis that so? indeed the kernel is not in UBI on the Ben00:43
wolfspra1lbut I thought that was a deliberate choice00:44
wolfspra1lbut not sure, it's possible00:44
wolfspra1lthen it's even better to have this link and your work00:44
Aylamy bootloader is https://github.com/Ayla-/UBIBoot/00:44
Aylait probably works on NanoNote too, who knows00:44
kristianpaulMaxim, not swtiched yet but is on the plan00:45
Aylathe second improvement I made lately, is the ability to change the ILI93xx panel at runtime through sysfs00:46
wolfspra1lyou mean disconnect and reconnect?00:46
wolfspra1lkristianpaul: does that mean the Maxim fully replaces need for the SiGe chip?00:46
wolfspra1lso we all just focus on Maxim going forward?00:47
kristianpaulyes it evetually replace sige chip00:47
Aylawolfspra1l, in software, yes00:47
xiangfuAyla, yes. u-boot support load kernel from UBI under nanonote. but by default still load kernel from raw nand data.00:48
kristianpauland move forward, yes, comapre later00:48
kristianpaulcompare*00:48
wolfspra1ldon't understand. you mean compare the two?00:48
wolfspra1lbut it seems you already like the Maxim better?00:48
Aylaxiangfu: is that recent? IIRC last time I looked uboot wasn't able to load a kernel from UBI00:49
Aylaonly jffs2 or raw00:49
wolfspra1lI have no problem at all in switching, not much to 'switch' anyway, just want to support you and whatever you like better is what I will go for.00:49
kristianpaulyes sure, the comparison is not a priority00:49
xiangfuAyla, from 'Image 2011-02-23' 00:49
wolfspra1lI somehow feel the urge to make a working product though that includes GPS :-)00:49
wolfspra1land it seems thanks to the work of kristianpaul artyom etc we can soon be crazy enough to try!? :-)00:50
xiangfu"F4 will load kernel inside the ubi rootfs of nand.(we need put kernel at /boot/uImage)" but it's very slow compare to raw nand data00:50
kristianpauland i like maxim, yes, its avaliable documentation is better than the non-public one i got for sige00:50
wolfspra1lperfect00:50
wolfspra1lthat's a big deal for us00:50
kristianpaulwolfspra1l: also the Takuji Ebinuma works00:50
Aylaxiangfu: great. Then I don't feel bad about creating a new bootloader :)00:50
wolfspra1lwho is that?00:50
kristianpaulhe  ported namutu to its nios II soc ;)00:51
Aylait was mostly for educational purposes00:51
kristianpaulnamuru*00:51
kristianpaulwolfspra1l: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/osqzss/e/af7fe0fe97a2c6b886fdb849efcd6c6f?fm=rss00:51
kristianpaulhe was trying milkymist, dunno was happened..00:52
kristianpaulor may be i tought i was.. dont remenber that at all..00:52
wolfspra1lwow, so great we get the name from you! thanks!00:52
kristianpauland he uses maxim too, i think we have too many confirmations already ;)00:52
wolfspra1lI think I want to make an extra effort to document better where stuff comes from, from whom we use what, etc.00:52
kristianpaulhe yes currently bit messy00:53
wolfspra1lyes, the reason for sige at the beginning was simply that this 1 guy who promised to go open but since then seems to have disappeared said he liked sige better than maxim00:53
wolfspra1lbut since he also seems to like closedness better than openess, let's all move to the happy open maxim camp and have fun00:53
wolfspra1land done00:53
wolfspra1l:-)00:53
kristianpaul:-)00:53
wolfspra1lTakuji Ebinuma... he knows about Milkymist SoC already - good00:54
wolfspra1lmaybe it's interesting for him, maybe not00:54
kristianpauli cannot get he proper feedback for him00:54
kristianpauli'll try later what happened00:55
wolfspra1lAyla: I think it's safe to say that *nothing* can match the experience of doing your own thing, in this case a UBI bootloader00:55
wolfspra1lis he living in Japan?00:55
wolfspra1lhow's his English?00:55
kristianpauldunno00:55
Aylayes, definitely00:55
wolfspra1lsometimes I wonder whether it makes sense to write in English and include a copy/pasted Japanese snippet out of google translate under it :-)00:55
wolfspra1lAyla: what do you use your Dingoo for mostly?00:56
kristianpaulhis englihs looks good to me00:56
kristianpaulenglish*00:56
kristianpauli had crossed several mails with Takuji Ebinuma00:56
Aylawolfspra1l: coding stuff on it, almost exclusively00:57
kristianpaulhe also talked about a source code published... still now news ;)00:57
wolfspra1lnice! anything we can use on the Ben as well?00:57
wolfspra1lyeah, I can imagine00:57
wolfspra1lI know little about Japan, but if it's anything close to China, there are probably massively other cultural misunderstandings than a simple 'translation' of text manages to overcome00:58
wolfspra1lwe have to live with that and try to understand each other as much as that is possible00:58
Aylawolfspra1l: you already do use them :)00:58
wolfspra1land slowly it will get better :-)00:58
wolfspra1lAyla: oh :-)00:58
Aylaqi-kernel, gmenu2x00:58
wolfspra1lwell of course00:59
kristianpaulwolfspra1l: are you suscribed to the osmo-sdr list?00:59
wolfspra1lno I don't think so01:00
wolfspra1llemme see :-)01:00
wolfspra1lif the traffic is not too high I will add it01:00
kristianpaulis not too hihg and when get mails very interesting topics01:00
wolfspra1lI can imagine, it's a wonderful project01:00
wolfspra1lsubscribed :-) thanks!01:02
kristianpaul:)01:02
wolfspra1ldo you have the Maxim chip already?01:02
kristianpaulyes01:02
wolfspra1lanything I can do to help?01:02
kristianpaulnot yet :)01:03
wolfspra1lalright... standby then01:04
wolfspra1lwe should do something mobile, or with a simple battery-powered solution01:04
wolfspra1llike one of those USB phone recharger thingies01:05
wolfspra1lI continue to be amazed at how little power my entire m1 setup needs01:05
wolfspra1lthe m1 itself - 5W01:05
wolfspra1lmy laser projector - 5W01:05
wolfspra1lcamera - 1.2W01:05
wolfspra1lwifi dongle - 0.5W01:05
kristianpaulI like Takuji Ebinuma's maxin receiver board, will be nice manufacture some01:06
kristianpaulafaik not very public details about it, may be you can write him?01:07
kristianpaulis 5W battery-powered ready? i mean worth to battery01:07
wolfspra1ltell me more01:07
wolfspra1lurl?01:07
wolfspra1lwell, the laser projector ships with a battery ;-)01:07
kristianpauloh01:08
kristianpaulhow long last?01:08
wolfspra1lbut of course battery will still run down quickly01:08
wolfspra1l1-1.5h maybe01:08
wolfspra1lbut wait, that's not my point01:08
kristianpaulah01:08
kristianpauli'm lost01:08
wolfspra1lpower consumption will continue to go down01:08
kristianpaulhttp://blog.goo.ne.jp/osqzss/e/1bfd7a2cc9bb93b989e9440dbe4fed20 <-- tell mroe01:08
wolfspra1lno, I wasn't clear01:08
wolfspra1lso let's say I want to put all this stuff into a portable box, and put some batteries into that box as well01:09
wolfspra1lI can lug 10 AA batteries around, no problem :-)01:09
wolfspra1lright now we are a little unflexible on the power side01:09
wolfspra1lwe ship m1 with that switching power supply and that's it01:09
wolfspra1lthat is fine today, but how about tomorrow?01:09
wolfspra1lM1 needs 5V, that's good. can probably hook it up to one of those USB phone recharger battery packs - I should try01:10
wolfspra1lnot for a real application, just for fun now :-)01:10
kristianpaulah ok01:10
kristianpauli tought was for real, my bad ;)01:10
wolfspra1lis that a blog you think we should add to the Qi planet?01:11
wolfspra1lchecking...01:11
wolfspra1lsure for real, but as an experiment now01:11
wolfspra1lhas to start somewhere...01:11
wolfspra1lhe, I see a URL on the picture there :-)01:12
wolfspra1loshugnss.blogspot.com01:12
wolfspra1lfiring up my freedom network... :-)01:12
kristianpaulbut blog dont load01:12
wolfspra1lwhat do you mean with "tell mroe"?01:13
kristianpaulanyway, my point is we should have a maxin board for gps receiver01:13
wolfspra1lyeah, indeed01:13
wolfspra1lhow strange is that01:13
wolfspra1lwell as I told you :-)01:13
wolfspra1lthe culture...01:13
kristianpaulok01:13
wolfspra1lof someone goes to the great length of silkscreening a url on a pcb, you would think they register (for free) the corresponding blog? :-)01:13
wolfspra1ls/of/if/01:14
wolfspra1lif of - I think it's clear01:14
wolfspra1lmaybe a typo?01:14
wolfspra1lwhat are you looking for exactly?01:14
wolfspra1lelectrical design / bom ?01:14
kristianpaulyes01:15
wolfspra1llooks very simple, can even tell half of it from the picture :-)01:15
kristianpaulwe already have Artyom's board01:15
kristianpaulis kicad 01:15
kristianpaulnot sure bom01:15
kristianpaulbut have extra components we dont need01:15
wolfspra1lsure sure, I am not trying to 'take' something, but rather make a contact with this guy and see what we can learn, understand his work, etc.01:16
kristianpauloh sure !01:16
kristianpaulDocScrutinizer, said somethim worry me a lot as my ignorance on this field01:17
kristianpauland is th interference generated from M101:17
kristianpaulthat can affect the receiver01:17
kristianpaulif we put the antenna near to it01:18
kristianpaulwich is not what happen right now..01:18
kristianpauldid i explain my selft correctly?01:19
kristianpaulxD01:20
wolfspraulkristianpaul: sorry, ran my battery into the ground01:24
kristianpaulno problem01:25
wolfspraulcan you tell me more about the Japanese guy - you emailed him?01:25
kristianpaulhe first :)01:25
wolfspraulshould we add his blog to the Qi planet?01:26
kristianpaulif you dont mind perhaps, but i feel it lacks a bit more sources01:26
kristianpaulit just tell, okay i'm doing this, or looks that..01:26
kristianpaulbut..01:26
wolfspraulok but maybe only some small encouragement is missing01:27
kristianpaulbut blog is good01:27
kristianpauli mean that as a improvement01:27
wolfspraulhe may not realize that he has avid readers01:27
wolfsprauland that dead url on the silkscreen... maybe the stuff is somewhere and we just don't find it01:28
kristianpaulperhaps blog is more local, for universiry collegues? etc..01:28
kristianpaulyou read my lines about my concern about M1 and interference ?01:28
wolfspraulno01:29
wolfsprauljust now?01:29
kristianpaulDocScrutinizer, mentioned time ago01:29
wolfspraulinterference are good problems to work on01:29
kristianpauli undertood, if have gps atenna near M1 it will lead problems01:29
wolfspraulsince we want to make stuff others can use, not a fake prototype/one-off thing with lots of real life bugs01:29
kristianpaulthat dint happen right now01:29
wolfsprauloh I'm sure. lots of problems :-)01:30
wolfspraulbut we have hope, we have Joerg? :-)01:30
kristianpaul:)01:30
wolfsprauljust kidding - eventually we find out the missing pieces to make it work. we are trying to make the best of high-performance open hw, right?01:30
wolfsprauland we need to search the entire world for the very best pieces of wisdom, experience, design, contributors, feedback, what not01:30
wolfspraulit won't be easy01:31
wolfspraulbut look how many other good people in that area you already found, I think we are not alone01:31
kristianpauloh no01:31
wolfspraulthat's the whole point of collaborative hw01:32
wolfspraulGPS signals are very weak, the antenna thing will be tough for sure01:32
wolfspraulI try to ignore it for now and put all my hope on finding people smarter than me to help01:32
kristianpaulOkay ;-)01:33
kristianpaulso thats all, in the mean time i try document and organice all i learn about this01:34
kristianpauland make it work of course :)01:34
kristianpaulosgps rtems port ;)01:35
kristianpaulwhat remains for a fix01:36
wolfspraulcool01:39
wolfspraulstill googling for Takuji Ebinuma's stuff01:41
wolfspraulhis project is what? to make this board in the picture?01:41
wolfsprauldoes it have a name?01:41
kristianpauldont know01:42
wolfspraulmaybe osqzss?01:42
wolfspraul:-)01:42
wolfspraulor qzss. how do you read his blog? google translate?01:42
kristianpaulyes i translate by google01:43
wolfspraulit seems all in Japanese01:43
wolfspraulyeah01:43
wolfspraulfor the Qi planet, we should have a feature to pull things through an auto-translater01:43
wolfspraulkristianpaul: well, thanks a lot for bringing Takuji's work up here01:46
kristianpaulthe least i can do ;)01:47
wolfspraulit's perfect. we need to search around more for great open-minded projects to join.01:47
wolfsprauland you already ran into a whole bunch over time :-) cool!01:48
wolfspraulI added Takuji's blog here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Planet#Blogs_to_watch01:48
wolfspraulfor now01:48
wolfspraulnot sure about including in the Qi planet now, people complain if there are too many languages they don't understand01:49
wolfspraulwe should have an auto-translate feature there01:49
wolfspraulkristianpaul: do you know this? http://www.sensorcomm.co.jp/osqzss/01:51
wolfspraulseems a bit messy, no license info, etc. :-)01:51
Ayladid you guys receive a mail from github about a security vulnerability?01:51
wolfspraulyes01:52
Aylaok, so it's legit01:52
kristianpaulyes :(01:52
kristianpauli hate those mails.. anywya01:52
kristianpaulno i dont01:52
kristianpaullet me see01:52
wolfspraulit was the news already days ago, legit I would say01:53
kristianpaulmessy indeed01:58
kristianpaulok, company Under Construction!!02:00
kristianpaul:-|02:00
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote wav2png: draw lines instead points thanks jirka (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b60920902:10
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: xburst nanonote: fix wpan compile failed under v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/63176f203:39
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: ks7010: fix compile failed under linux v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b81348204:03
qi-botThe build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-0446 07:12
viricwpwrak: where is your page about comparing cad tools?08:13
wpwrakviric: the thread is still here: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-July/008476.html09:19
viricI told one to contact you09:20
wpwrakviric: in the end, i wasn't too happy with either09:26
wpwrakviric: i then experimented with moving a line segment along a perpendicular line segment, to generate a surface enclosing a solid: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/cae-tools/source/tree/master/ptrude/09:29
wpwrakbut that didn't go beyond early experiments (i.e., until the point where i realized why it would get complicated :)09:30
viricok09:31
wpwrakmy latest idea is to use fped to produce a series of 2D drawings of "slices" of the 3D object, then construct a 3D object or directly a toolpath from them09:32
wpwrakbut for this to be practical, fped needs the ability to reuse points in different frames. right now, points don't cross frames09:33
wpwrakthis is still work in progress09:33
rohi think you are reinventing the wheel there. with a ui nobody besides you can use09:34
wpwrak(not too happy with either) openscad is a bit more powerful than cadmium but the resulting meshes were full of problems, particularly if i used subtractive models. cadmium got that right but only had the most primitive of primitives.09:35
rohwpwrak: well. just more reason to fix openscad i think09:36
wpwrakroh: give me a better parametric cad and i'll gladly switch ;-)09:36
rohwpwrak: you know that autocad stated that way and still can do parametrics?09:36
wpwrakroh: besides, fped is used by others (for footprints)09:36
rohfped is really poor compared to any 2d cad i know09:37
rohno harm intended09:37
wpwrakwell, it's not designed to be a full cad system :)09:37
rohits a footprint editor, and it may well be a good one, but for 2d cad i cannot even  imagine breaking my legs that hard09:37
roheven the utterly broken qcad2.x does a quite well job for 2d cad.09:38
wpwrakoh, try it. it's not that bad :) you'll appreciate its capabilities when you need to adjust some parameters09:38
rohif you can make something which extrudes arbitrary dxf stuff and lets me assemble that, that would help09:39
rohi couldnt get openscad to extrude dxf for me  yet09:39
wpwrakone weakness of fped is that it has no geometrical construction besides concatenation of vectors. for "real" cad, you often need a few more operations. and they're messy to do in fped.09:40
wpwrak(extrude dxf) that sounds like my 2D slices09:40
rohi tried extruding dxf with openscad, but it failed on my parts09:40
wpwrak;-)09:41
rohe.g. if i could make one dxf per sidepanel for the mm1 case, i could extrude and 'assemble' them in only a few lines09:41
DocScrutinizer51moo09:41
rohdoing the dxf is easy. but openscad has some problems with the parts09:41
wpwrakroh: post the files and ask for help on the openscad list ?09:42
wpwrakor maybe try heekscad ?09:42
rohwpwrak: well.. just use the file in svn, cut everything away besides 'one piece' and save it as new file.09:43
wpwraknot sure if it has extrusion from dxf, though. but it might.09:43
rohthen try extruding that in 3mm09:43
wpwrakyes, i understand what you want to do. but you need to explain that to the openscad developers. it's them who might fix it for you :)09:44
rohcurrently i am not sure if the sw is broken, the manual is wrong or  i am too stupid09:45
rohhttp://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/DXF_Extrusion09:45
rohthat one doesnt work for me (like loads of stuff in the 'manual'09:45
wpwrakthat's what the openscad list is for ;-) i don't think anyone here knows openscad well enough to be able to help you09:46
wpwrakand yes, i think the 2D extrusion approach holds promise09:47
rohwell.. only for such simple stuff09:48
wpwrakbtw, regarding fped, it's also nice to be able to do things with immediate graphical representation. i do almost all my drawing in the gui, not in the script09:48
rohmaybe  as a step on the way. but on the long run we need a proper fullfeatured 3d cad09:48
wpwrakyeah. and a parametric one at that09:48
rohcurrently we are really limiting our doing hard by using bad and broken tools09:49
wpwraklast time i checked, heekscad also has the issue of scripts having only access to a small subset of features09:49
rohheeks is b asically dead09:49
wpwrakis it ?09:49
rohyes. the maintainer said so and most of the people left long ago to other projects.09:49
wpwrakoh, i see09:50
rohits diced for code reuse, but i am happy that nobody wants the ui09:50
wpwrakpity. it looked quite active not too long ago09:50
wpwrak;-)09:50
rohthe ui was unbearable.09:50
rohdone by a moron. i mean.. come on.. using a self-built treeview in opengl because due to the use of wxwindows he couldnt use the gtktreeview?09:51
rohwhich means every time you klick ANYTHING in there it folds up again09:51
rohno keybinding work also.09:51
wpwraki wouldn't call it "unbearable" :) that ws more my feeling with blender :)09:51
rohin short: a nice example why not to reinvent the wheel when it comes to ui toolkits. you will only fuck up.09:52
wpwraki found the lack of scriptability more worrying09:52
rohblender is a artists tool. its not intended for mechanical work09:52
wpwrake.g., how do i go from a 3D model to a toolpath ? click and type a lot ...09:53
rohthat you can not avoid. toolpathes cannot be done fully automatic09:53
wpwrak(blender) surreal-masochists ... :)09:53
roh'artists'09:53
roh;)09:53
wpwraki'll gladly manually do every step of the toolpath setup the first time. but then, i don't want to do the damn thing all over again and again and again for each run09:54
rohtrue. that one should be possible09:54
wpwrakfor 2D, i have at least my makefiles for it. i may be the only one who understands how these things works, but they do ;-)09:55
rohregenerating the toolpath after changes should be no problem. that worked even in heeks09:55
wpwrakas far as i recall it didn't save the tooling parameters09:56
wpwrakah wait, what didn't work was combining that with model generation from a script09:57
wpwrakso maybe you could keep the toolpath parameters but you'd lose parametric modeling09:57
rohyeah. there were inconsistencies between the scripting if and the ui. but that was the result of uncoordinated hacking by different people09:58
rohi think you give 'too much' about the parametric part of it. sure its nice, but in the end it doesnt help a lot09:58
wpwrakanyway, so where did the heekscad people go ? in particular, where did they take the heekscnc engine ?09:58
wpwraki find parametric extremely important09:59
rohtolerances alone will eat you alive if you think that parametric only will save you09:59
rohi think some went to the pycam and pycad stuff. some to freecad.. not so sure09:59
wpwrakparametric is what lets me compensate for machining tolerances ...09:59
roh no. tolerances are EXTRA in real cad.09:59
rohthats a propery of material10:00
wpwrakand the machine and so on10:00
rohexactly. and in the end, somebody will want some font differently or placed different.... so 'just moving it' is much easier10:01
wpwrakbut also the model often needs to accommodate things like clearances. they're often hard to predict precisely. even if the machining is "perfect"10:01
rohthere is nothing perfect, even in a cnc world. its always just approximation which will show its quality on first machining10:02
wpwrakyou didn't "just move" the holes in the M1 case. i know that you didn't - i reverse-engineered the underlying parametric model ;-)10:02
rohon the m1 case nothing was parametric. its completely done by hand in qcad opensource edition10:03
wpwraki think it's not harder to make or use a parametric cad than a non-parametric one10:04
rohjust because something isnt parametric it doesnt mean i cannot select and group n things and then move em controlled by numbers10:04
wpwrakqcad is anti-parametric. but you had a parametric model in your head when you did the thing10:04
wpwrakyes, and gro(u)ping and moving loses the history. so you no longer know how they ended up where they are10:05
rohnah. not really. i constructed it from measurements and then fixed it in like 6 tries while using a real machine and cheap wood10:05
wpwrakand most 3D cad also completely loses the constructive history. intersect A with B and poof, you get a C. now go and change something in A ...10:05
roheh.. well.. i keep my dxf files in svn.. so i got a history10:05
rohclassic problem. answer  is simple: it would b ecome to many objects to keep for real complex models10:06
wpwrak(from measurement) yes. i didn't say it was a complex model :) still, with a little bit of abstraction, i could do things like move connectors around for one-off board variations10:06
rohi know of bmw card models in cad where they modeled the surfaces of knobs and upholstery and even the wire inside of lightbulbs.10:07
wpwrakyeah, sure. the world is soooo complex. let's close our eyes and stay in bed ;-)10:07
rohso you got gazillion of parts in the end. which consist of even more origin parts10:07
wpwrak(bmw) nice :)10:07
rohfix your workflow and you dont need 'all source objects' in your model10:08
rohcsg is nice for simple stuff. but in the end its all triangles anyhow10:08
wpwraki like to experiment. that means that i often have to go back a few steps. without a proper parametric/constructive cad, that means deleting everything and doing it again. possibly lots of times.10:09
rohthats what components are for.10:09
wpwrakand yes, i realize that a lot of people don't have a problem with doing things even a machine would find a little boring10:09
wpwrakyou still have the "redo until it fits" problem inside the components10:10
wpwrakand if the components become part of constructive geometry, you still have the same issue if you have to change a component10:10
rohwpwrak: if your tolerances are that small that things do not fit, even in cad, your concept is likely to be fucked10:13
rohreality is a bitch. make enough room for it to breathe10:13
wpwraki was thinking of things fitting in real life10:13
wpwrakor feeling too loose, etc.10:13
wpwraki don't have decades of experience in 3D design. so i make a best guess and then improve my model or my tolerances based on it10:14
rohits always trial and error. thats why rapid prototyping helps so much10:15
wpwrakit's subtle things. like whether a panel feels crowded. whether it's prone to operator error to inefficient placing of elemenst. whether connectors are places such that i can plug in things easily10:16
wpwrakand for trial and error i want parametric. qed :)10:16
wpwrakparametric basically lets you record the construction history. that way, it tells you - to some extent - why things are where they are. not just where they are.10:17
wpwrakand a good parametric cad would also now make you waste a lot of time with converting your construction steps into something the cad can process10:18
wpwrakthat would also go against the concept - you don't want to hide the forest behind a lot of trees10:18
rohwpwrak: well.. show me a single working 3d cad which doesnt break after a few undo first10:24
wpwrakyeah, it starts even there :)10:32
wpwrakof course, with parametric design, you don't need undo all that often :)10:32
wpwrake.g., fped has undelete (delete maintains referential integrity, so it can do quite a bit of damage if you're careless), but that's all10:33
qi-botThe build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-1716 17:53
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: Drop support for LG LGDP4551 and SPFD5420A Smart LCD panels. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/d42e28919:01
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: code re-ordering. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c0b8b4d19:01
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: use standard module_param() macro for the 'panel' parameter. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1a7fb6019:01
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add 'rgb' parameter for ILI9338. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1ee631219:01
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add the 'panel' attribute to /sys (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/ae56dee19:01
qi-bot[commit] Paul Cercueil: MIPS: JZ4740: add the 'rgb' attribute to /sys. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/38763ad19:01
qi-botThe build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-1904 19:41
qi-botThe build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-2051 21:28
qi-botThe build was FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120308-2238 23:16
--- Fri Mar 9 201200:00

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