#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2012-03-06

whitequarkwpwrak: actually it works, looks like the clamp diodes can manage with whatever current FT232 can provide00:02
whitequarkstill, that's not quite the best modus operandi obviously00:03
wpwrakwith the clamps, you're within 200 mV or better anyway00:20
wpwrakstill, they're not really designed for constant maximum load00:21
whitequarkyeah, I'll replace that with open-drain scheme when I'd attach the uC00:22
whitequarkthe modules even provide VDD-EXT specifically for pull-ups00:23
kristianpaulbtw some one in the local-es mail list, is asking for spectec wifi modules02:14
kristianpaulany idea where to buy then?02:14
kristianpaulyes, we still have a local-es list ;-) thanks tuxbrain i guess02:15
wolfspra1lI was thinking about deleting it the other day :-)02:17
wolfspra1lall we can do about the spectec wifi card is to tell people to stay away02:17
wolfspra1lit's so wrong from so many angles, and there is no hope for anything good in the future02:18
rohyeah. still.. somehow it would be nice to find some working spi-wifi at some point.02:19
wpwraktalking about spectec or the list ? ;-)02:19
rohdo we have evaluated the zydas stuff?02:19
wolfspra1lzydas was acquired by x which was acquired by y, no?02:20
wolfspra1lralink acquired by mtk, atheros acquired by qualcomm02:20
rohzydas isnt the most powersaving but they hav serial and spi in addition to usb on their chips and linux driver afaik02:20
wpwrakroh: yeah, i meant wolfgang. the idea of having a babylon of lists also has its dark side ...02:20
rohatheros is qc now? sigh. too bad. i had hope for them02:20
wolfspra1lnope. the investment demands are too high. so qualcomm can generate a higher return on those needed investments integrating the tech into bigger chips, than atheros being independent can.02:21
kristianpaulwolfspra1l: ok02:21
wolfspra1lI find it interesting that the better open source driver some wifi corp has, the higher the chance it looses independence :-) or so it seems :-)02:21
rohwolfspra1l: well.. nothing the consumer will notice. ath chipsets were already cheap (single digit euros)02:22
kristianpaulwpwrak: i did  a quick searck on qi-hw wiki and it appear, so dont look at me ;)02:22
wolfspra1lroh: notice? don't understand02:22
rohthe price will not get much lower02:22
wolfspra1lI think it means that there will be less investment into new independent atheros-type products02:22
wolfspra1lof course the ones they have now will sell for a loooong time02:22
wolfspra1lbut any big new investments will be made towards more integrated chips02:23
rohas you said about the tplink router yesterday.. it sells for 16$. with case and psu.02:23
rohat 400mhz and ~32mb ram and 4-8mb flash02:23
wolfspra1lyes. and in the future you can add 3g/lte, more memory, graphics acceleration, etc. into the mix02:24
wolfspra1lfrom qualcomm then02:24
rohsure. but its always a numbers game. i know of no wifi-ap socs which have 3g stuff yet. not enough devices which need both to pay for the asics02:24
rohso its usually 2 chips connected by usb02:25
rohall wifi-ap soc have usb host nowadays02:25
wolfspra1lyes, but why has qualcomm bought atheros?02:25
rohmy guess is that 3g licenses are more expensive than the physical soc itself ;)02:26
wolfspra1ldon't understand02:26
wolfspra1lwhat will qualcomm do with the atheros stuff?02:26
rohwolfspra1l: strategy. they need to fight broadcom. which have multimedia (tv, mediaplayer), mobile, wifi-ap and other soc.02:26
rohwolfspra1l: complete the portfolio. qc was a 'basically only in mobiles' manuf atm.02:27
wolfspra1lbut qualcomm is much stronger in 3g/lte than broadcom, no?02:27
rohso we will see.. if atheros looses their currently quite good opensource support in the long run02:27
wolfspra1lI don't think 'open source' is a strategy that matters when it comes to justifying or recouping multi-bilion USD investments02:28
wolfspra1lit's just too irrelevant02:28
rohdunno. the mobile field has lots of smaller chips besides the soc. not sure what stuff is their cashcow02:28
wolfspra1lso the quality of atheros open-source drivers may go either way, accidentally02:28
wolfspra1lit may get better, or worse02:28
wolfspra1lso far atheros cared a lot about open source02:29
wolfspra1lbut now they lost their independence :-)02:29
rohwell.. brcm will show its cards very soon...see rasberry pi02:29
rohatheros caring? well.. nah. 02:29
wolfspra1lcompared to qualcomm, yes02:29
wolfspra1lthe raspberry pi is nothing more than a marketing blip/joke for broadcom02:30
wolfspra1lif it's more, maybe broadcom is on the way down too :-)02:30
rohatheros was the reason for the years-long fail called madwifi. without crazy opensource nerds we would have no free drivers there02:30
wolfspra1lyes but atheros had much great open-source awareness and enthousiasm than I could ever detect at qualcomm02:30
wolfspra1land I met with (some) people from both companies02:30
wolfspra1lthey are big corps though, and one department may differ from another02:30
rohwolfspra1l: i dont think so. brcm is quite strong when it comes to market share in wifi routers for example. its mostly ath and brcm i see. realtek only the really cheap ones but <1 in 1002:31
wolfspra1lin the end all those guys have to be very responsible about massive capital investments02:31
wolfspra1lthey are forced to02:31
wolfspra1lrealtek seems quite strong in china02:31
wpwrakwolfspra1l: you detected anything like that at qualcomm ? :)02:31
rohyeah. but they have rather the low-end02:32
wolfspra1land that means probably also in another 20 large-population countries at least02:32
wolfspra1lyes but don't underestimate the size here02:32
rohi havent seen qc chipsets in wifi equipment yet. only in 3g modems, mobiles and tablets.02:32
wolfspra1lchina alone has more people than the entire 'western world' combined02:32
wolfspra1land scale matters in manufacturing, see the 16 usd router that tp-link doesn't even introduce in eu/us because it's too cheap and distributors there cannot make enough money to push it and it also doesn't matter much for the scale of the product02:33
rohtrue. but they mostly cannot afford the level of luxury and numbers we can, atleast still.02:33
wolfspra1lmaybe they don't need it? that 16 usd router next to me here works just wonderful. if I have money left over, I'll spend it on a good restaurant maybe :-)02:33
rohwolfspra1l: i can buy the tplink 741nd for <20E including taxes when i take more than 10 pieces02:33
wolfspra1lI need to watch realtek a bit more, don't know what's going on there02:34
rohin europe. not searching for the cheapest seller. just default b2b price02:34
wolfspra1lwhen products get too cheap, there is no pull into us/eu markets, because distributors cannot make enough money02:34
wolfspra1land the end consumer doesn't care02:34
wolfspra1lbut there will be huge growth for those products still in the other 80% of the world02:34
wolfspra1lwhere a 5 USD difference matters to both resellers and consumers02:35
rohthere is no too cheap.. atleast not if the quality and features make sense. just means more gain for the importer02:36
wolfspra1ljust for reference http://www.silicontap.com/atheros_acquired_by_qualcomm_for_3__billion/s-0033072.html02:36
rohmy guess is that the price difference between china and europe is mostly taxes and WEEE02:36
rohalso the chinese versions of lots of the wifi stuff have less ram/flash to save money02:37
wolfspra1l3.1 billion is not bad, at least atheros seems to have been valued like a real business, which they are/were02:38
rohwow. lots of green.02:38
wolfspra1lthat was already a year ago btw02:39
wolfspra1lover a year ago02:39
wolfspra1ljust reading about realtek02:43
wolfspra1lin hsinchu/taiwan, 1600 people, 700 million USD revenues02:44
wolfspra1llet's see how long they can keep their independence - maybe they need to find some smaller highly profitable niches02:45
mthI don't know if this was reported yet, but the web view of git seems to be offline02:58
mthgit itself does seem to be working02:58
rohmth: which git?03:00
mthqi-kernel is the one I tested03:01
mthhmm, gmenu2x does still work03:01
wolfspra1lmth: ah that indefero :-)03:02
wolfspra1lon my to-be-removed list03:02
mthI'm wondering though if my git-fu is failing me or the archive is in a bad shape03:07
mth"git log origin/jz-3.2" should show the 3.2 branch, right?03:07
mthbecause the autocompletion doesn't go beyond jz-3.003:07
mthout of caution, I did a fetch rather then pull03:08
mthI'm going to have another attempt at sleeping03:21
rjeffrieswolfgang wolfspra1| in reading the backlog, say discussion of ZyDAS wifi. Then a discussion of Qualcom buying Atheros. Nobody mentioned (that I saw) that Atheros way back bought ZyDAS.04:24
rjeffriesQualcom may want wifi for so-called Internet of Things including home automation. Atheros has some very low power wifi chips now. and of course every mobile smartphone has wifi, so it makes sense for Qualcom04:26
Testbaronhi what beter  :(512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM +1 gb DDR2-667 DDR2 SDRAM   ) OR (512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM+512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)?07:53
wolfspraulif you wait a little that may get relevant for future Milkymist products :-) http://www.milkymist.org08:06
wolfspraulother than that I have no idea...08:06
wolfspraulTestbaron: we are mostly dealing with open hardware here and how to collaborate in hardware08:08
wolfspraulmechanical design, electrical, IC, testing, even distribution08:09
wolfspraulsourcing, manufacturing08:09
Testbarondo i can buy somewheare open graphic card?08:12
wolfsprauldepends on how you define open08:14
wolfspraulyou like to build your own computer? pc or notebook?08:15
pabs3aw, opengraphics.org no longer resolves08:17
TestbaronI wana make pc and i wana make my own experimental graphic LIB08:27
TestbaronIn my own "TOY OS" in assembler08:28
Testbaronand open for my is using card registrs i think ..i need  acceleration for graphics08:30
Testbaronor open drivers what  give me using 100% efectivy in my own os08:31
Testbaron*using card in my os08:31
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update xburst qi_lb60 to linux-v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7f7956608:35
xiangfuforward openwrt kernel to v3.2.1 :)08:37
xiangfunow test wifi and WPAN stuff. 08:38
TestbaronDo anybody know somethink? i need port/adapt DRI DRM +driver to get graphic acceleration in my experemmintal OS what exactly i need focus to?Thx10:06
zrafaI know10:07
Testbaroncan you try expl /some info ineed tored /links10:08
Testbaronor abstractly some info10:09
wolfspraulpabs3: I think Milkymist SoC is the way to do open graphics10:28
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: add wav2png simple script file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f0ff76c10:29
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: m1/patches/rtems/: sync with rtems(2012-03-04) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4dfb61f11:33
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-1420/14:26
mthAyla, larsc: am I misunderstanding git or have jz-3.1 and jz-3.2 disappeared from the qi-kernel repo?14:44
Aylamth: looks fine to me14:46
mthso for example "git log origin/jz-3.2" does work for you?14:47
Aylait sozq14:47
Aylait does*14:47
mththat typo shows that you have an azerty keyboard :)14:48
Aylaheheh :)14:50
mththen there is probably something broken in my local git repo14:54
mth"git remote show origin" does list jz-3.1 and jz-3.2 indeed14:54
mthbut in .git/refs/remotes/origin/ they do not appear14:55
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-1722/17:25
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/: M1rc3 BOM to BOOKSHELF conversion (may be incomplete) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/b791fd719:04
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:wernermisc (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/a9c9be019:04
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/: added milkymist_one_bom_rc3.csv generated from Adam's original (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/19e2f8419:30
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-2017/20:20
wpwrakthat build must find all this horribly traumatizing. several times a day, the bot shouts at it that it has FAILED yet again, and again, ...20:25
larscand still it doesn't give up and tries again and again20:40
wpwrakwell, that's what the bot is for. mercilessly keeps on hitting that poor build ...20:49
Aylahas anybody ever tried the g_mass_storage module on dingoo/nanonote?21:35
Aylag_mass_storage jz-udc: failed to start g_mass_storage: -621:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/bomshelf: support adding components to the BOM (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/dd3c0c221:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: some improvements for the audio sheet (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/af4482d21:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: fix various broken or redirected PDF links (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4bcaa5f21:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsc/bomshelf: new tag X to delete a part number (and all references) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/0750ed821:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: delete mechanical components; fixed last non-Yageo bad link (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/d3a27c721:44
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: nah, seems it BUILDS again and again, no?22:14
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: varistors are called Vxxx, not VRxxx (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/7c6771322:27
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