whitequark | wpwrak: actually it works, looks like the clamp diodes can manage with whatever current FT232 can provide | 00:02 |
---|---|---|
whitequark | still, that's not quite the best modus operandi obviously | 00:03 |
wpwrak | with the clamps, you're within 200 mV or better anyway | 00:20 |
wpwrak | still, they're not really designed for constant maximum load | 00:21 |
whitequark | yeah, I'll replace that with open-drain scheme when I'd attach the uC | 00:22 |
whitequark | the modules even provide VDD-EXT specifically for pull-ups | 00:23 |
kristianpaul | btw some one in the local-es mail list, is asking for spectec wifi modules | 02:14 |
kristianpaul | any idea where to buy then? | 02:14 |
kristianpaul | yes, we still have a local-es list ;-) thanks tuxbrain i guess | 02:15 |
wolfspra1l | I was thinking about deleting it the other day :-) | 02:17 |
wolfspra1l | all we can do about the spectec wifi card is to tell people to stay away | 02:17 |
wolfspra1l | it's so wrong from so many angles, and there is no hope for anything good in the future | 02:18 |
roh | hehe | 02:18 |
roh | yeah. still.. somehow it would be nice to find some working spi-wifi at some point. | 02:19 |
wpwrak | talking about spectec or the list ? ;-) | 02:19 |
roh | do we have evaluated the zydas stuff? | 02:19 |
roh | spectec | 02:19 |
wolfspra1l | zydas was acquired by x which was acquired by y, no? | 02:20 |
wolfspra1l | ralink acquired by mtk, atheros acquired by qualcomm | 02:20 |
roh | zydas isnt the most powersaving but they hav serial and spi in addition to usb on their chips and linux driver afaik | 02:20 |
wpwrak | roh: yeah, i meant wolfgang. the idea of having a babylon of lists also has its dark side ... | 02:20 |
roh | atheros is qc now? sigh. too bad. i had hope for them | 02:20 |
wolfspra1l | nope. the investment demands are too high. so qualcomm can generate a higher return on those needed investments integrating the tech into bigger chips, than atheros being independent can. | 02:21 |
kristianpaul | wolfspra1l: ok | 02:21 |
wolfspra1l | I find it interesting that the better open source driver some wifi corp has, the higher the chance it looses independence :-) or so it seems :-) | 02:21 |
roh | wolfspra1l: well.. nothing the consumer will notice. ath chipsets were already cheap (single digit euros) | 02:22 |
kristianpaul | wpwrak: i did a quick searck on qi-hw wiki and it appear, so dont look at me ;) | 02:22 |
wolfspra1l | roh: notice? don't understand | 02:22 |
roh | the price will not get much lower | 02:22 |
wolfspra1l | I think it means that there will be less investment into new independent atheros-type products | 02:22 |
wolfspra1l | of course the ones they have now will sell for a loooong time | 02:22 |
wolfspra1l | but any big new investments will be made towards more integrated chips | 02:23 |
roh | as you said about the tplink router yesterday.. it sells for 16$. with case and psu. | 02:23 |
roh | at 400mhz and ~32mb ram and 4-8mb flash | 02:23 |
wolfspra1l | yes. and in the future you can add 3g/lte, more memory, graphics acceleration, etc. into the mix | 02:24 |
wolfspra1l | from qualcomm then | 02:24 |
roh | sure. but its always a numbers game. i know of no wifi-ap socs which have 3g stuff yet. not enough devices which need both to pay for the asics | 02:24 |
roh | so its usually 2 chips connected by usb | 02:25 |
roh | all wifi-ap soc have usb host nowadays | 02:25 |
wolfspra1l | yes, but why has qualcomm bought atheros? | 02:25 |
roh | my guess is that 3g licenses are more expensive than the physical soc itself ;) | 02:26 |
wolfspra1l | don't understand | 02:26 |
wolfspra1l | what will qualcomm do with the atheros stuff? | 02:26 |
roh | wolfspra1l: strategy. they need to fight broadcom. which have multimedia (tv, mediaplayer), mobile, wifi-ap and other soc. | 02:26 |
wolfspra1l | yes | 02:27 |
roh | wolfspra1l: complete the portfolio. qc was a 'basically only in mobiles' manuf atm. | 02:27 |
wolfspra1l | right | 02:27 |
wolfspra1l | but qualcomm is much stronger in 3g/lte than broadcom, no? | 02:27 |
roh | so we will see.. if atheros looses their currently quite good opensource support in the long run | 02:27 |
wolfspra1l | I don't think 'open source' is a strategy that matters when it comes to justifying or recouping multi-bilion USD investments | 02:28 |
wolfspra1l | it's just too irrelevant | 02:28 |
roh | dunno. the mobile field has lots of smaller chips besides the soc. not sure what stuff is their cashcow | 02:28 |
wolfspra1l | so the quality of atheros open-source drivers may go either way, accidentally | 02:28 |
wolfspra1l | it may get better, or worse | 02:28 |
wolfspra1l | so far atheros cared a lot about open source | 02:29 |
wolfspra1l | but now they lost their independence :-) | 02:29 |
roh | well.. brcm will show its cards very soon...see rasberry pi | 02:29 |
roh | atheros caring? well.. nah. | 02:29 |
wolfspra1l | compared to qualcomm, yes | 02:29 |
wolfspra1l | the raspberry pi is nothing more than a marketing blip/joke for broadcom | 02:30 |
wolfspra1l | if it's more, maybe broadcom is on the way down too :-) | 02:30 |
roh | atheros was the reason for the years-long fail called madwifi. without crazy opensource nerds we would have no free drivers there | 02:30 |
wolfspra1l | yes but atheros had much great open-source awareness and enthousiasm than I could ever detect at qualcomm | 02:30 |
wolfspra1l | and I met with (some) people from both companies | 02:30 |
wolfspra1l | they are big corps though, and one department may differ from another | 02:30 |
roh | wolfspra1l: i dont think so. brcm is quite strong when it comes to market share in wifi routers for example. its mostly ath and brcm i see. realtek only the really cheap ones but <1 in 10 | 02:31 |
wolfspra1l | in the end all those guys have to be very responsible about massive capital investments | 02:31 |
wolfspra1l | they are forced to | 02:31 |
roh | true | 02:31 |
wolfspra1l | realtek seems quite strong in china | 02:31 |
wpwrak | wolfspra1l: you detected anything like that at qualcomm ? :) | 02:31 |
roh | yeah. but they have rather the low-end | 02:32 |
wolfspra1l | and that means probably also in another 20 large-population countries at least | 02:32 |
wolfspra1l | yes but don't underestimate the size here | 02:32 |
roh | i havent seen qc chipsets in wifi equipment yet. only in 3g modems, mobiles and tablets. | 02:32 |
wolfspra1l | china alone has more people than the entire 'western world' combined | 02:32 |
wolfspra1l | and scale matters in manufacturing, see the 16 usd router that tp-link doesn't even introduce in eu/us because it's too cheap and distributors there cannot make enough money to push it and it also doesn't matter much for the scale of the product | 02:33 |
roh | true. but they mostly cannot afford the level of luxury and numbers we can, atleast still. | 02:33 |
wolfspra1l | maybe they don't need it? that 16 usd router next to me here works just wonderful. if I have money left over, I'll spend it on a good restaurant maybe :-) | 02:33 |
roh | wolfspra1l: i can buy the tplink 741nd for <20E including taxes when i take more than 10 pieces | 02:33 |
wolfspra1l | I need to watch realtek a bit more, don't know what's going on there | 02:34 |
roh | in europe. not searching for the cheapest seller. just default b2b price | 02:34 |
wolfspra1l | when products get too cheap, there is no pull into us/eu markets, because distributors cannot make enough money | 02:34 |
wolfspra1l | and the end consumer doesn't care | 02:34 |
wolfspra1l | but there will be huge growth for those products still in the other 80% of the world | 02:34 |
wolfspra1l | where a 5 USD difference matters to both resellers and consumers | 02:35 |
roh | there is no too cheap.. atleast not if the quality and features make sense. just means more gain for the importer | 02:36 |
wolfspra1l | just for reference http://www.silicontap.com/atheros_acquired_by_qualcomm_for_3__billion/s-0033072.html | 02:36 |
roh | my guess is that the price difference between china and europe is mostly taxes and WEEE | 02:36 |
roh | also the chinese versions of lots of the wifi stuff have less ram/flash to save money | 02:37 |
wolfspra1l | 3.1 billion is not bad, at least atheros seems to have been valued like a real business, which they are/were | 02:38 |
roh | wow. lots of green. | 02:38 |
wolfspra1l | that was already a year ago btw | 02:39 |
wolfspra1l | over a year ago | 02:39 |
wolfspra1l | just reading about realtek | 02:43 |
wolfspra1l | in hsinchu/taiwan, 1600 people, 700 million USD revenues | 02:44 |
wolfspra1l | let's see how long they can keep their independence - maybe they need to find some smaller highly profitable niches | 02:45 |
mth | I don't know if this was reported yet, but the web view of git seems to be offline | 02:58 |
mth | git itself does seem to be working | 02:58 |
roh | mth: which git? | 03:00 |
mth | qi-kernel is the one I tested | 03:01 |
mth | hmm, gmenu2x does still work | 03:01 |
wolfspra1l | mth: ah that indefero :-) | 03:02 |
wolfspra1l | on my to-be-removed list | 03:02 |
mth | I'm wondering though if my git-fu is failing me or the archive is in a bad shape | 03:07 |
mth | "git log origin/jz-3.2" should show the 3.2 branch, right? | 03:07 |
mth | because the autocompletion doesn't go beyond jz-3.0 | 03:07 |
mth | out of caution, I did a fetch rather then pull | 03:08 |
mth | s/then/than | 03:08 |
mth | I'm going to have another attempt at sleeping | 03:21 |
rjeffries | wolfgang wolfspra1| in reading the backlog, say discussion of ZyDAS wifi. Then a discussion of Qualcom buying Atheros. Nobody mentioned (that I saw) that Atheros way back bought ZyDAS. | 04:24 |
rjeffries | Qualcom may want wifi for so-called Internet of Things including home automation. Atheros has some very low power wifi chips now. and of course every mobile smartphone has wifi, so it makes sense for Qualcom | 04:26 |
Testbaron | hi what beter :(512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM +1 gb DDR2-667 DDR2 SDRAM ) OR (512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM+512 DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM)? | 07:53 |
wolfspraul | if you wait a little that may get relevant for future Milkymist products :-) http://www.milkymist.org | 08:06 |
wolfspraul | other than that I have no idea... | 08:06 |
wolfspraul | Testbaron: we are mostly dealing with open hardware here and how to collaborate in hardware | 08:08 |
wolfspraul | mechanical design, electrical, IC, testing, even distribution | 08:09 |
wolfspraul | sourcing, manufacturing | 08:09 |
Testbaron | do i can buy somewheare open graphic card? | 08:12 |
wolfspraul | depends on how you define open | 08:14 |
wolfspraul | you like to build your own computer? pc or notebook? | 08:15 |
pabs3 | aw, opengraphics.org no longer resolves | 08:17 |
Testbaron | I wana make pc and i wana make my own experimental graphic LIB | 08:27 |
Testbaron | In my own "TOY OS" in assembler | 08:28 |
Testbaron | and open for my is using card registrs i think ..i need acceleration for graphics | 08:30 |
Testbaron | or open drivers what give me using 100% efectivy in my own os | 08:31 |
Testbaron | *using card in my os | 08:31 |
qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: update xburst qi_lb60 to linux-v3.2.1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7f79566 | 08:35 |
xiangfu | forward openwrt kernel to v3.2.1 :) | 08:37 |
xiangfu | now test wifi and WPAN stuff. | 08:38 |
Testbaron | Do anybody know somethink? i need port/adapt DRI DRM +driver to get graphic acceleration in my experemmintal OS what exactly i need focus to?Thx | 10:06 |
zrafa | I know | 10:07 |
Testbaron | can you try expl /some info ineed tored /links | 10:08 |
Testbaron | or abstractly some info | 10:09 |
wolfspraul | pabs3: I think Milkymist SoC is the way to do open graphics | 10:28 |
qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: add wav2png simple script file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f0ff76c | 10:29 |
qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu: m1/patches/rtems/: sync with rtems(2012-03-04) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4dfb61f | 11:33 |
qi-bot | The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-1420/ | 14:26 |
mth | Ayla, larsc: am I misunderstanding git or have jz-3.1 and jz-3.2 disappeared from the qi-kernel repo? | 14:44 |
Ayla | mth: looks fine to me | 14:46 |
mth | so for example "git log origin/jz-3.2" does work for you? | 14:47 |
Ayla | it sozq | 14:47 |
Ayla | it does* | 14:47 |
mth | that typo shows that you have an azerty keyboard :) | 14:48 |
Ayla | heheh :) | 14:50 |
mth | then there is probably something broken in my local git repo | 14:54 |
mth | "git remote show origin" does list jz-3.1 and jz-3.2 indeed | 14:54 |
mth | but in .git/refs/remotes/origin/ they do not appear | 14:55 |
qi-bot | The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-1722/ | 17:25 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/: M1rc3 BOM to BOOKSHELF conversion (may be incomplete) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/b791fd7 | 19:04 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:wernermisc (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/a9c9be0 | 19:04 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/: added milkymist_one_bom_rc3.csv generated from Adam's original (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/19e2f84 | 19:30 |
qi-bot | The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-2017/ | 20:20 |
wpwrak | that build must find all this horribly traumatizing. several times a day, the bot shouts at it that it has FAILED yet again, and again, ... | 20:25 |
larsc | and still it doesn't give up and tries again and again | 20:40 |
wpwrak | well, that's what the bot is for. mercilessly keeps on hitting that poor build ... | 20:49 |
Ayla | has anybody ever tried the g_mass_storage module on dingoo/nanonote? | 21:35 |
Ayla | g_mass_storage jz-udc: failed to start g_mass_storage: -6 | 21:40 |
Ayla | :( | 21:40 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/bomshelf: support adding components to the BOM (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/dd3c0c2 | 21:44 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: some improvements for the audio sheet (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/af4482d | 21:44 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r4/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: fix various broken or redirected PDF links (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/4bcaa5f | 21:44 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsc/bomshelf: new tag X to delete a part number (and all references) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/0750ed8 | 21:44 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: delete mechanical components; fixed last non-Yageo bad link (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/d3a27c7 | 21:44 |
DocScrutinizer | wpwrak: nah, seems it BUILDS again and again, no? | 22:14 |
DocScrutinizer | openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120306-2017/ | 22:15 |
qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1r1/dsv/SUPPLEMENT: varistors are called Vxxx, not VRxxx (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/7c67713 | 22:27 |
--- Wed Mar 7 2012 | 00:00 |
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