#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2012-02-20

kristianpaulArtyom, you may want to add some important notes you consider when getting into osgps here http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/index.php?title=GPS_Free_Stack/Notes_About_OSGPS00:41
kristianpaulas i already saw you added the other's day book in the wiki :-)00:41
uncloudedHi, I'm having trouble backing up my NanoNote.  It's booted to MMC and I want to back up the NAND.  I do "mount -t ubifs ubi0:rootfs /mnt" and it works, but all the files and directories in /mnt are owned by uid and gid 1001, not 0 as I was expecting.  The web and man pages for mount aren't helping.  Is there something I've missed?01:44
uncloudedSpot the idiot.  I just booted to NAND and the files really -are- owned by 100101:51
kristianpaulwhy you expcted 0?01:56
kristianpauli mean had you confimed it on /etc/passwd ?01:57
uncloudedI expected all the entries in / to be owned by root but they're owned by 1001, which doesn't even have an entry in /etc/passwd, but it's OK, I thought I had used "mount" badly but it turns out the files really are owned by 1001.  Don't know how they got like that though01:59
uncloudedIt's a 2011-11-13 in NAND.  It's ages since I installed it but I suppose I must have used the stock .ubi.bz2 from http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/2011-02-23/02:00
uncloudedI haven't checked that file to see if the files are all owned by 1001 though02:01
kristianpaulah same nanonomap dont support gpsd..02:06
kristianpauls/same/shame02:06
uncloudedhow are you connecting your GPS to your NN?02:06
kristianpaulby TP4/TP502:07
uncloudedare they the pads under the battery?02:08
kristianpaulnope..02:08
uncloudedah, got it: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Serial_console02:10
kristianpaulyes02:11
kristianpaulhere others pics02:11
kristianpaulactually i'm sourcing another gps receiver box for a frien's project02:12
whitequarkanyone knows if tuxbrain is still alive? :/02:12
kristianpaulhe is yes02:12
uncloudedThere's an interesting side effect of all files being owned by 1001 in the rootfs: All the files that -are- owned by root are the ones changed -after- the initial flashing of NAND, so you could even do this deliberately as a crude change-tracking mechanism02:13
kristianpaulbut nanomap is very good for adding marks, but afaik no gpsd supprot..02:13
kristianpaulseems i need try OE again..02:13
whitequarkunclouded: not changed, but recreated02:14
whitequarktruncating a file and writing over it/appending to it does not change the uid02:14
whitequarkcheck it yourself02:14
uncloudedah ok, not such a good change-tracking mechanism then.  shame, it would be a good hack02:14
whitequarkpfft, you can make selinux do same things for you02:15
whitequarkor even plain inotify02:15
whitequarkwould have been quite cpu-hungry, through02:15
uncloudedI can't remember what I changed on this file system.  I want to reflash to the latest but I don't want to have to keep a full backup yet I don't want to lose anything I did create or change02:16
uncloudedperhaps more importantly, I want to re-apply any changes to the freshly flashed image02:17
uncloudedpackages I installed, configuration I changed and so on02:17
whitequarkfind -mtime02:17
uncloudedI knew I was being slow.  Thanks02:18
pabs3http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-economics-of-spark.html03:04
qwebirc70840hello everyone05:49
xiangfu_qwebirc70840, hello05:49
qwebirc70840I have some cool news05:50
qwebirc70840I got full imagemagick running on my Ben05:50
qwebirc70840this is cenobyte by the way05:51
qwebirc70840and i have an idea on how to bring csound to the OpenWRT image05:53
qwebirc70840let me know if anyone is there05:55
xiangfu_qwebirc70840, what is the different on your imagemagick with the upstream one? 05:55
qwebirc70840Well first off, I am running Debian Sid on the NAND05:55
qwebirc70840and I have the full debian cli version05:56
xiangfu_oh.05:56
qwebirc70840it requires swap to be enabled 05:56
qwebirc70840what's funny is that it took 10 minutes to resize a very large image to half size05:57
qwebirc70840but it DID do it!05:57
qwebirc70840for 320x240 to probably 800x600 images it should be better05:57
qwebirc70840well maybe i will just try mailing list06:07
qwebirc70840just for the record, I found old csound 4.0 source code in a book which can be made with the standard 'make' as opposed to scons06:07
qwebirc70840I am thinking it should be trivial to make for OpenWRTqi06:08
qwebirc70840OK well bye06:16
uncloudedWhat's the tidiest way to prevent a service starting up on the NanoNote?  Should I simply delete the link in /etc/rc.d or is there a nicer way like Debian's update-rc.d?07:30
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add a Makefile.firmware for only compile firmware (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/fc85c0308:36
xiangfuunclouded, /etc/init.d/SERVICE  disable08:36
xiangfubetter do disable or enable.08:36
uncloudedxiangfu: thanks for that!08:39
Action: xiangfu got an email : xburst-tools REMOVED from testing. because the bug: http://bugs.debian.org/613610 08:42
piey:(08:43
viricxiangfu: btw, I could not manage to build well the latest xburst-tools... I kept using some 'old08:45
viric'08:45
xiangfuviric, what is the error?08:45
viricI can't remember :) I tried on new year08:45
viricI'll report once I recheck08:46
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: cgminer: now cgminer+icarus is 10% better then origin miner.py (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/c38f27709:24
whitequarkwolfspraul: do you know of any distributors of NN which actually ship ?10:51
whitequarkwpwrak: ^ also 11:34
wpwraksharism ? :)11:36
whitequarkmhm11:36
whitequarkI'm interested in atben/atusb11:36
whitequarkmainly11:36
whitequarksharism doesn't seem to distribute them11:36
wpwraksharism should have these soon (it seems)11:36
wpwrakbut they come from tuxbrain, so ...11:37
whitequarkwell, tuxbrain eventually just cancelled my order. and I have yet to get a moneyback, as the Visa payment is already authorized11:38
whitequark:/11:38
whitequarkI'd prefer to get the hardware, but...11:38
wpwrak(tuxbrain) oh :(11:38
wpwrakmaybe he already sent all his atben/atusb to wolfgang11:38
whitequarkhe didn't mention that11:38
whitequarkjust no reply within 20 days of order placement11:39
wpwrakyeah, that's bad11:40
whitequarkit would be faster to get the pcbs manufactured at a fab and place an order on digikey, seriously11:40
whitequarkmaybe I should just do that11:40
whitequarknot to mention it would be significantly cheaper in this case11:40
wpwrakif you're planning to modify the design, then making your own board can be a good idea. but ... unless you have good RF measurement equipment, you may want to have a reference device you can compare with11:42
wpwraka reference does make life quite a lot easier :)11:42
wolfspraulI have atben/atusb11:42
wolfspraulwhitequark: how many do you want?11:42
whitequarkyes, that's what I wanted to buy some premade devices11:42
whitequarkwolfspraul: hm, I'm unlikely to fry atusb but quite the opposite for atben11:43
whitequarkhence I think 2 atben/1 atusb is good enough11:43
whitequark*why I wanted11:43
wolfspraulanything else you want? also some nanos?11:43
whitequarkprobably no at the moment. I realized that I have a lot of devices which could act as SPI hosts11:45
whitequarkm1, ft232, stm32, arduinos, whatever11:45
whitequarkbuying a NN just for that purpose is silly11:45
wolfspraulm1 is cool :-)11:46
wolfspraula little overkill - *maybe* :-)11:46
whitequarkhehe11:46
whitequarkI've already decided to use stm32 anyway as the main CPU for that project11:47
whitequarkcheap, easy as atmegas, faster and more powerful than atmegas, uses less power than atmegas.11:48
whitequarkthe as-it-turns-out-really-opensource-osPID is in production!13:49
whitequarkhttp://www.ospid.com/blog/and-so-it-begins/13:49
rohwhitequark: nice to hear15:38
rohwhitequark: do you know if and when they will do a variant legal to use in sold products?15:38
rohor electrical installations. means CE and a rail-mount case15:39
rohtop-hat-rail mountable case15:39
whitequarkhm15:49
whitequarkI can ask, of course, but what do you mean by "legal to use"?15:49
whitequarksome certification?15:49
whitequarkah, got it. CE. ok, I'll ask15:49
rohwhitequark: well.. as it is i couldnt mount it onto a customers wall, with ce i can. makes it more interresting. commercial pid controllers start at ~60¬ when temperature only and ~120¬ when generic and end somewhere at around 500¬15:59
whitequarkroh: I emailed him16:05
whitequarkalso, ordered the thingy.16:05
rohhehe. nice. please report your experiences16:06
whitequarkI really like how it's done. IMO everything is very well thought-of in it.16:06
whitequarkdefinitely16:06
whitequarkroh: yeah, sure. I'll write in my blog probably.16:06
roheven when i will not use an extra 'device' as a pid regulator but most likely do it in some 'extra avr' but not any extra high-power output or pcb16:07
whitequarkyeah, that's why I bought ospid and not the reflow shield16:07
rohi can understand why the industrie 'modularizes' such stuff.. but in a opensource industry we can just 'use the code' and integrate such stuff and save money on extra hw16:07
whitequark(apart from my dislike of countless arduinos)16:07
rohi havent bought a single real arduino afaik. always just worked on other peoples ones or soldered boards myself16:08
whitequark^ that. just put in a damned atmega.16:08
rohsure. in the end its nothing different.16:09
whitequarkyou don't need a fancy name for an atmega with a bootloader. neither you need an IDE nor all other crazy stuff16:09
whitequarkshields consisting of ten wires16:09
whitequarkwtf, people16:09
rohthe reason i like arduino is reproducability16:09
whitequarkhm?16:09
rohi can drop a commented pde file somewhere and people can replicate my results.16:09
roheven when i do not use their ui and only a makefile and their libs16:10
rohmy editor is vim. i dont use the java stuff.16:10
Action: whitequark prefers kate, but that does not really matter16:11
whitequarkwell, won't they be able to replicate it with just an atmega?16:11
rohmostly i dont even have the real bootloader flashed. but the code stays the same and arduino is like the 'documentation layer' to communicate knowledge. helps beginners with less hw and sw knowledge replicate what ive built16:11
rohno. when somebody is forced to solder or forced to use a makefile you have upped the requirements immensively.16:11
whitequarkthen you have some very simple or very typical projects16:12
rohwhen you only say 'use this .pde file and wire it accordingly the comments' every 10 year old who can read can do it in one afternoon. makes people have success on hacking. makes them happy and come back, hack some more. its a motivational question.16:12
rohwhitequark: not really. but i split em up into multiple simple ones.16:13
whitequarkcan I take a look at them?16:13
rohi havent really put stuff online yet with documentation16:13
whitequarkare you teaching someone in a public school or a hackerspace?16:15
rohi have helped getting our hackerspace started and am thinking about how to go on16:15
rohhttps://trac.raumfahrtagentur.org/wiki/Projekte/EmcArduino16:15
rohbut thats only a implementation of somebody elses design and code16:15
rohbut it shows how my hw usually looks like16:16
whitequarknah, mine is similar (when I go through-hole)16:16
whitequarkis it max232 on the right?16:16
whitequarkas per the topic. is it really hard for someone, even 10 years old, to assemble such a circuit having a schematic?16:18
whitequarkmaybe you'll have usb-ttl232 module. then you only need to solder a xtal, two resistors and a bunch of wires16:18
whitequarkI did (slightly) more complicated things when I was 10 (or so), and I don't remember that as hard...16:18
rohyes. and the 3pin thing below is a 5V ldo16:18
rohi am not afraid of soldering ;) but yes, we want our cnc mill to spit out pcbs soon16:19
whitequarkok16:22
whitequarkCNC mill sounds interesting16:22
whitequarkthere's another gadget I can't wait to get, printrbot16:22
whitequarkI am pretty sure I could repurpose it as a CNC mill16:22
whitequarkit's very hackable16:22
rohwe already got one.16:23
whitequarkdamn.16:23
Action: whitequark is envious16:23
roh'just' need to add a faster spindle16:23
whitequarkwhat do you think of it?16:23
rohhttp://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-4456.jpg16:24
rohhttp://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Raumfahrtagentur has more pictures than our trac or wordpress16:24
whitequarkah, I thought you got printrbot16:25
rohthat machine was one of the major reasons we founded raumfahrtagentur16:26
whitequarkthe photos are impressive, yes16:27
whitequarkwhat do the routers on the wall do?16:27
rohwhich ones.16:27
whitequarkhttp://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-3737.jpg16:28
rohthese are actually old pictures16:28
rohthe blue one is only a vlan switch in that case16:28
rohthe other one counts ferraris counter revolutions (powermeter)16:29
rohthe black box is a adsl2+ modem16:29
rohthe pcb in the wooden box is a pcengines wrap board 2c or so16:29
whitequarkwhat kind of scopes do you use? rigol?16:31
rohwe have one tek and one welec16:31
rohboth 100mhz types... welec has 4 channels, the tek has 2 i guess16:32
rohbut these are both privately held, just permanently stationed in the hackspace16:32
rohbbl. need to run16:33
Jay7http://www.flickr.com/photos/leahbuechley/1480085930/in/set-72157605143629049/16:46
Jay7wearable electronics16:46
Jay7arduino based :)16:47
Jay7from http://www.polymathdesignlab.com/weblog/2010/03/happy-ada-lovelace-day-wearable-electronics-edition/16:47
whitequarksigh16:50
whitequarkwhat does that thingy really have with arduino, except for the atmega?16:51
whitequarkcompletely different hardware16:51
whitequarkcompletely different paradigm16:51
whitequarkstill "arduino" by some reason I yet have to understand16:51
wpwraksame name ! ;-)16:51
Action: whitequark quietly grumbles16:52
whitequarkif I'll take a spare atmega out of my box, drill a hole in the center and suspend it on a thread16:54
whitequarkwould it be an "arduino"?16:54
whitequarksecond question. would someone try to argue if I'd call it so?16:54
wpwrakthey would applaud the bold new design choice16:58
Action: whitequark takes a note: don't hesitate to troll the Arduino community16:58
larscit has blink leds = it is an arduino17:20
larsc;)17:20
larscblinking17:21
roh*g*17:21
whitequarkI should open a shop and sell my entire stash of 555's17:22
whitequarkroh: see PM17:22
larscwhitequark: btw. your atmega on a string would probably be considered art17:24
whitequarkoh. art. there was something with a blinking led called iCufflinks or such17:26
whitequarkwith all my respect to adafruit, that's a bit over the top.17:26
rohwhitequark: thanks17:41
Artyomkristianpaul: hi18:54
kristianpaulhi..20:20
wolfspraulgood morning everybody23:12
erikkugelgood morning/evening23:15
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