#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2012-01-30

kristianpaulbaby born :)?00:03
DocScrutinizernah,this is where I deal with tickets, while my colleagues already forgot about that product00:28
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.stericsson.com/products/m7400-thor.jsp is current topic for everybody except me00:29
wpwrakah, you haven't been accepted in the illustrious LTE circle yet :)00:32
wpwrakat least they didn't have you get started with GSM, CDMA, or TDMA :)00:32
pabs3DocScrutinizer: how hackable are these LTE things you are making? is there a possiblity of OsmocomLTE on them some time in the distant future?02:26
kristianpaulbefore make it, can you buy it? 02:30
kristianpaulalso i guess LTS specifications are kinda same as like GSM02:35
xiangfujust checked irclog. the 'sdcv' is include since 'Image 2010-06-15'. needs check the image verison by 'cat /etc/VERSION' 02:38
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: bard: update to 0.6 and disable mouse (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/927c83302:38
Action: kristianpaul opens is third qq account02:40
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: fix kernel keymap for VolUp/Down and Del (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/65c48a303:27
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: build sound modules in kernel (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/6ff208603:27
qi-bot[commit] kyak: trunk: add ks7010 support patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7ac9c0803:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: base-files, move it to openwrt-package/nanonote-files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/996602603:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: update to 2010.06 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a5cc97a03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: enable-silent-console.patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d25306103:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot silent console (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/975b14c03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: ben nanonote: forward patches to linux-3.0 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7587a4c03:27
qi-bot[commit] kyak: kernel-3.0: add fbcon color fonts patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/92612cc03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: base-files: add hostname (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/6dda07903:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: xburst: update config-3.0 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a71106103:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: xburst: ben nanonote: first add WPAN(atben,atusb) driver (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/79165fa03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add WPAN(atben,atusb) kernel module file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/73257ed03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: WPAN: disable AutoLoad on at86rf230, spi_atben. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/48dad2d03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: xburst qi_lb60 disable WPAN kernel options (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/86e88f603:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: change load kernel size (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cf9505c03:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: add nanonote slash screen (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1e15cd603:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: select the nanonote slash screen (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/38a6a6403:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu:  this commit break the ks7010 driver. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/94abc0403:27
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: wpan.mk: fix typo thanks blogic and jivs (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/810de2503:27
xiangfupabs3, yes. rebase on top of last openwrt. 03:32
xiangfuplan to trigger the daily build. and update kernel to 3.2 :)03:32
kristianpaulheberth: ping04:23
heberthkristianpaul:  :D04:24
kristianpaulhay foto del condesador este que me paso?04:24
kristianpaulpor cierto como le fue con el bus pirate?04:24
kristianpaulah, y el extrator que me paso no es el mio..04:24
heberthno lo he ensayado. maƱana que no tengo nada que hacer lo ensayo04:25
heberthahh seguro el suyo se quedo en el laboratorio04:25
heberthkristianpaul: http://hotfixed.net/2012/01/30/bienvenidos-al-curso-de-asterisk-1-8-version-2012/04:25
kristianpaulno no, esta en la maletica que lleve04:25
heberthahh entonces te robaste el del laboratorio no! XD04:25
kristianpaulja, yo !04:26
kristianpauli toguth this was #liure04:26
heberthmicalek XD04:46
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120130-0634/06:03
xiangfuhmm.. the URL is not correct. now I am using the build-nanonote/... now. 06:11
xiangfushould be ok when report next time :)06:11
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: update the new daily build URL (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/ca217cc06:12
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120130-0713/06:38
viricopenwrt uses uclibc, right?08:11
viricuclibc + g++ build c++ programs just fine, right?08:11
xiangfuviric, yes. 08:28
virichm ok. so there is nothing much special in the libc, concerning c++08:29
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote base file: change the openDNS to Google public DNS (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/6f7d1fd09:57
jow_laptopviric: there are actually two C++ standard libraries available, stdc++ and uClibc++11:26
jow_laptopbut since the NN is not that size constrained you can happily link against stdcpp I guess11:26
viricjow_laptop: but stdc++ comes with gcc12:17
viricnot with glibc.12:17
viricI personally use glibc in the nanonote12:17
viric(I saw the RAM usage was equal to uclibc)12:17
pabs3interview with the ColourHug guy: https://banu.com/blog/41/interview-of-colorhug-maker-richard-hughes/13:39
wolfspraulpabs3: oh nice, thanks a lot for sharing13:41
wolfspraulI'm a proud owner of a first-batch ColorHug and have been in on-and-off email discussions with Richard13:42
pabs3np, cool. the interview goes into quite some detail13:42
wolfspraulbut nothing tangible has emerged yet13:42
wolfspraulhe is a great great guy and I believe there is potential in this little thing. but the economics will be difficult, as usual.13:43
LunaVorax_Hello everyone!15:39
LunaVorax_I saw the OMG Ubuntu article about the Ben Nanonote. The comments were pretty mixed and impressive.15:40
LunaVorax_OMG Ubuntu commenters use to be pretty dumb anyway.15:42
DocScrutinizer51RAAAAHHH 250g argentinian filet can really change Ur mood to the better19:16
wpwrakoh, you've been to the bonsai shop ? :)19:18
wpwrakfor a typical grill party, i calculate 400-500 g of meat per person :)19:19
viricwpwrak: that's before dehidrating on the grill :)19:22
wpwrakargentine meat doesn't dehydrate much :)19:23
viricI agree19:23
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: I'm *from* the bonsai shop, just a bit tall20:08
DocScrutinizerI actually take weird pride in making a living from <2000 kcalories/day20:10
DocScrutinizerprobably soem mental disorder20:10
DocScrutinizerbut every now and then a 250..300g first class filet are fine :-D20:12
DocScrutinizeralready had some cake for breakfast, plus 4 cafe-latte == 16 sugarcubes today. So only 250g for me20:13
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: what I missed to mention since years: It's really amazing how you manage to disclose less than even I do about your private life, despite being online and present all the time. Seems we got the same education of RL to know how to deal with this vampire called the web20:33
viriceducation of what?20:36
DocScrutinizereducation to protect your privacy and your future20:42
DocScrutinizeror was RL the query?20:43
DocScrutinizerReal Life20:43
viricI did not understand 'rl'20:44
DocScrutinizerif you encounter a real observation, with tapping your phone and all, you  start to think about a few habits. Just for instance20:45
viricDocScrutinizer: like in this? http://abstrusegoose.com/39620:47
DocScrutinizerwhen you start to acquire knowledge about counter measures that are hightech even for three letter agencies, it starts getting insane20:47
DocScrutinizerluckily I realized what's going on before building lethal weapons became a hobby20:51
Action: GNUtoo like 3 letter agencies like FSF, GNU, etc...20:51
GNUtooenforcing GPL since ....20:51
DocScrutinizereven those, yes. Just one club that might be on par: CCC20:51
GNUtoosome agencies support TOR20:52
GNUtooother are against20:52
DocScrutinizermeh, TOR20:54
DocScrutinizerCIA thinks using TOR makes email to the office safe ;-P20:55
DocScrutinizerother idiots use their GSM phones when they have "sekrit stuff to talk"20:56
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: which details of my private life would interest you ? :)  i don't actively try to hide all that much ...21:00
GNUtooI use too much the phone too(not cellphone tough)21:00
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: well, unless you could not being on fakebook or such :)21:00
GNUtoowpwrak, it could interest badly intentioned people21:00
DocScrutinizer51FB??? wtf!21:01
GNUtoolike people wanting to steal your money etc...everybody understand that they need some kind of privacy else that happend21:01
GNUtooimagine all kind of system abused21:01
DocScrutinizer51I'd rather carry unshielded atomic wate21:01
GNUtooit would be a nightmare21:01
wpwrakGNUtoo: yeah, i usually don't post when exactly i'll be away from home, with full direction, detailed overview of all the potential valuables and where they're placed :)21:01
GNUtooin France they will force people to use new electricity counter that monitors what you do21:02
GNUtooso they will be able to know when you're at home or not21:02
GNUtooif I understood well21:02
GNUtooI hope that wouldn't contain a microphone too21:03
DocScrutinizer51microphone in counter? how useless, there are better mics since 20 30 years21:04
GNUtooyes in cellphones21:04
DocScrutinizer51for instance21:04
GNUtoobut if you use a freerunner that defeat the mic in cellphones21:05
DocScrutinizer51though first awesome one been FeTAP71121:05
GNUtooyou're not obligated to use a non-free phone21:05
GNUtoobut you will be obligated to get theses counter21:05
wpwrakpeople always demand more transparency from their governments, but then, when they get it, they're not happy either. it's really difficult :)21:09
DocScrutinizercheck: non linear junction detector. Passive microphones. Mechanical ringer and parasitary microphony21:12
DocScrutinizercat5 and rg58 as capacitive microphone21:12
DocScrutinizeroperation distance of laser based micro vibration detectors21:13
DocScrutinizerdirectional microphony by distributed large array of cheap mics21:14
DocScrutinizerdifferential microphony21:15
DocScrutinizermicrophonic components of incandescent lamps21:15
DocScrutinizerparasitary microphonic effects in switched PSU21:16
DocScrutinizermicrophony of arbitrary objects exploited by remote radar distance/doppler21:18
DocScrutinizer(e.g your clothes, your skin)21:18
DocScrutinizerexploiting non-linear acoustic properties of air on ultrasonic waves21:19
DocScrutinizerooops last one OT, not a eavesdropping measure21:20
lindi-GNUtoo: you can always balance your electricity consumption too :)21:20
DocScrutinizerrather a way to create audio out of nowhere over 10s or 100s of meters distance21:21
wpwraklindi-: a new product idea: "equalizer" :) whenever you drop below your peak consumption, it burns off the rest21:21
GNUtooor put it in batteries21:21
DocScrutinizeractually a UPS would make lots of sense in that scenario21:22
wpwrakGNUtoo: or supply the various countermeasures you need to keep DocScrutinizer from listening in ;-)21:22
lindi-putting the sauna behind the UPS might be a slight challenge though21:22
DocScrutinizerthere are no counter measures against all the shit I know21:22
DocScrutinizerlindi-: indeed21:23
DocScrutinizeryou should use a verya classical electric heat storage ofen for your sauna21:23
lindi-GNUtoo: I guess it'd be useful to figure out how often they send the information21:24
whitequarkjust use logs21:24
whitequarkthe wood ones.21:24
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: hmm, i was thinking to include drones with hellfire missiles, just in case. but considering that you escaped relatively unscathed the last time they firebombed you, you may be right21:24
DocScrutinizeror simply exploit that fact that all those computerized electric counters don't use any auth and/or encryption21:24
lindi-most are GSM based afaik at least here21:25
DocScrutinizerlindi-: quite possible, they invent new crap every other week regarding that21:25
DocScrutinizerhere most are powerline data21:26
DocScrutinizeror even plain DSL21:26
DocScrutinizerGSM is rather convenient to shield and fake though21:27
DocScrutinizerstep one: create your own femtocell that accepts all SIM21:28
DocScrutinizerstep two: intercept msg from counter21:28
DocScrutinizerstep three: fake that msg while your counter is wrapped into tin foil21:28
DocScrutinizereasy as that. /join #osmocom ;-P21:29
lindi-I guess the power company will notice cheating eventually since they do have other ways to measure total consumption on some area too21:31
DocScrutinizerno, they don't21:31
DocScrutinizerquite usually things like trffic lights, lanterns, other municipal consumers, all have no meter at all, and are just billed by calculation based on power * hours-on21:33
whitequarkOT: wpwrak: does tuxbrain's shop even work?21:33
DocScrutinizerthen there are the inevitable losses on cables, transformers etc21:33
whitequarkI made an order and he billed me for it, through it does not show up on the site itself21:34
wpwrakwhitequark:last time it tried, about a year ago, it did. maybe send him a mail ?21:34
wpwrakwhitequark: david@tuxbrain.com21:35
whitequarkwpwrak: thanks, wrote him21:37
whitequark10k rur isn't a small amount :/21:38
DocScrutinizerwell, that's a friggin useful feature of that bot :-D21:38
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: do you mean qi-bot or wpwrak? ;)21:39
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: evidently is no bot21:39
whitequarkwell, I heard there was some advanced AI research ongoing...21:39
DocScrutinizerooops, s/FeTAP711/FeTAP791(?)/21:53
DocScrutinizerthe fools used an electronic unit counter built around a (iirc) uA741. Some genius managed to mess up circuit and routing in such a way the whole circuit oscillated @ ~90kHz, and since it been powered from a/b line, it of course been amplitude modulated -- XP21:55
DocScrutinizerAFAIK the only phone that came with a eavesdrop transmitter by design21:56
DocScrutinizerwith a standard allband radio you could receive the shitty phone via 10..20m21:57
DocScrutinizerwith a tailored-to-teh-usecase receiver probably a few 100m distance feasible21:58
wpwrakvery popular in embassies and such ?21:58
DocScrutinizerI bet21:58
DocScrutinizernowadays you got switched PSU that make for brilliant TX, though microphonic sensitivity might be a bit worse22:01
GNUtoohmmm do you have more details on computer PSU?22:02
DocScrutinizerdepends on the crap they used for "shielding" though, if any. And of course on your PCB and heatsinks22:02
GNUtooanyway nowadays BIOSes have rootkit22:02
GNUtoobut again nothing prevent you from not running the BIOS]22:03
DocScrutinizerbasically each microphoning MU metal sheet will detune the (parasitary) resonance circuits in PSU22:03
GNUtoothere is coreboot, lemote computers , embedded computer with a free botloader22:03
DocScrutinizerfor mobile devices you don't need any GSM inside them - the ceramic capacitors will serve just fine for microphoning from PCB22:05
GNUtoois there ceramic capacitors attached to the gta02 modem?22:05
GNUtoo*is there any22:06
DocScrutinizerguess what's happening to the 2MHz radiation of that kindle/whatever it creates from switched PSU for random power rail, when the buffer C is microphoning22:06
DocScrutinizermeh, you never dreamt of what's possible22:07
Action: GNUtoo tried to run nutx-bb on the modem but failed22:07
whitequarkwpwrak: aha tuxbrain replied. nice.22:15
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: you're rather paranoid, aren't you? (I understand you, through)22:22
whitequarkcan you give some examples on what do you consider "private life details"? country? street address? phone number? etc.22:23
whitequark... everything?22:23
DocScrutinizerno, I'm not paranoid at all. I simply know what's (most likely, occasionally or frequently) going on, and I don't care anymore22:23
DocScrutinizerI don't disclose my addr, my marriage status, my age, my hobbies (except the obvious), my sexual orentation, my income, my phonenumber, my IP-addr, my... you name it22:25
viriclike the story of the gnu person and the social security number22:25
viricthat he kept it secret22:26
viricuntil some day, happened that all the people in his home town disclosed their numbers22:26
viricand the only one in the lists not disclosed was... his.22:26
DocScrutinizersilly story22:27
viricDocScrutinizer: by not disclosing you become suspicious22:27
viricYou are the most suspicious in this channel for example22:27
GNUtooyes 22:27
GNUtooI already heard that talk22:27
DocScrutinizerviric: nope, I took care to become suspicious long before disclosing privacy details became a teenage fools habit22:27
GNUtooisn't it me that run coreboot, has a freerunner etc....22:27
DocScrutinizerviric: you should listen to Frank Zappa / Joe's Garage, all the way to end of last record22:28
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: and by "disclosing" do you mean doing it publicly? i.e. your domain registrar probably wants your street address and phonenumber22:29
DocScrutinizeronly by being suspicious you can live in peace22:29
whitequarkat least my one does22:29
GNUtoowan't it a talk by eben moglen22:29
wpwrakviric: sizing up the burial grounds your minions need for the great purge ? :)22:29
GNUtooDocScrutinizer, that's not sufficient22:29
GNUtooyou need to be suspicious since you were born22:29
GNUtoodata retentions policies....22:29
GNUtooso you cannot hide anymore22:30
whitequark^ that.22:30
GNUtoobecause of what you did in the past22:30
whitequarkalso, not being a teenage fool at any point of your life helps, too22:30
DocScrutinizernobody knows what I did in the past, I've spread so much red jerring stories22:30
wpwrakwhitequark: live safe, die very young ? ;-)22:31
GNUtooyou were working at openmoko22:31
DocScrutinizerare you sure?22:31
GNUtoo(for what you did in the past)22:31
GNUtooI really think so22:31
viricI never had the chance to check if I'm doing anything suspicious22:31
wpwrakviric: checking would be suspicious22:31
whitequarkwpwrak: meh, I was talking about myself. social networks and stuff. my data still resides somewhere deep in their DC's, through most of it is not true already.22:32
wpwrakviric: "officer, you don't have an arrest warrant for me, do you ?"22:32
GNUtoowpwrak, not needed anymore in USA22:32
GNUtooyou just need to be suspicious to be emprisoned22:32
GNUtooand tortured22:32
GNUtooand such22:32
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: for that I got friends at police22:32
GNUtoowithout a trial22:32
DocScrutinizerand of course I got account credentials22:33
wpwrakGNUtoo: when the sheriff or the lynch mob pronounces you guilty, you damn well are22:33
viricof course. As politicians here say: First, social peace22:33
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: do you use google search? then google probably knows your hobbies, your age (relatively precise), sexual orientation (same) and obviously IP address22:33
whitequarkI wonder if that counts as "disclosing"?22:33
Action: GNUtoo prefers the ssherif22:33
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: nope, they only *think* they know22:34
GNUtoowhitequark, do you know duck duck go?22:34
whitequarkGNUtoo: yes22:34
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: red herrings?22:34
GNUtooit's not perfect tough22:34
GNUtooti could still spy on you22:34
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: if everybody thinks they know you're having sex with ponies, does it matter if they really know ? ;-)22:34
whitequarkGNUtoo: and I also use google maps on my android. because it's better to be tracked than to be lost and freeze to death. and I'm almost not kidding.22:35
GNUtooI use navit22:35
GNUtooit works quite well for me22:35
GNUtooI don't know google maps22:35
whitequark(android) no google sync, through. except for maps and a few pieces of software I do relatively trust, I use only FOSS tools22:35
GNUtoonever really used22:35
GNUtoowhitequark, replicant?22:35
GNUtooelse you have non-free libs spying22:36
wpwrakwhitequark: my GPS once gave me a merry trip around tampere in mid-winter. i only found the way back to my hotel once i had sobered up a bit and the gps had run out of batteries.22:36
GNUtoolike recording your position all the time trough cell ID etc....22:36
whitequarkGNUtoo: google maps can route via public transport. I don't know if that does matter for your city, but it incredibly matters for Moscow and no other navigator I know can do that22:36
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: how did you find out about one of the at least 4 identities I created on google? :-D22:36
whitequarkGNUtoo: (non-free libs) yes, there are some blobs. I consider that an acceptable risk, given that I already use GSM22:37
DocScrutinizerin fact google thinks 5 people living here, and we have parties all the time with a lot of *really* weird guests22:37
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: wolfgang told me ;-)22:37
whitequarkI bet most of them (GPU acceleration, similar ones) do not spy on me. some clearly do, but hey it's gsm anyway. it's in its design22:37
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: and then you say you're not paranoid and do not care. heh.22:38
GNUtooa freerunner doen't spy that much22:38
GNUtoofor instance it cannot record what you say while not in call22:38
GNUtooat least in theory22:38
whitequarkGNUtoo: yes, I know, I looked at its schematics, etc22:38
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: that's correct. All this is automatism since decades, and I'm not the least concerned about it22:38
GNUtoowhitequark, what bother me is if the modem can fry the phone or not22:39
DocScrutinizernow I have to feed my pony, ttyl22:39
GNUtooyou have to pown your powny?22:39
whitequarkGNUtoo: frying is obvious and definitely not spying22:39
viricDocScrutinizer: anyone trying to spy you, would bring you to a mental hospital22:39
GNUtoobut it's a denial of service that is unacceptable to me22:40
DocScrutinizerrather him XP22:40
GNUtoowhitequark, so is it possible to fry the main CPU part etc... too22:40
whitequarkGNUtoo: cut the power trace to GSM in two. connect an external switch :D22:40
viricDocScrutinizer, addicted to hiding.22:40
DocScrutinizerI met those who tried, man those were douschebags22:40
GNUtoowhitequark, or I could try again to make nuttx-bb22:41
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: (automatism) seriously, that's why I call you paranoid (semi-seriously, through). I don't know any people who do even half of what do you do in order to protect their privacy22:41
whitequarkGNUtoo: nuttx-bb?22:41
GNUtooI guess you know osmocombb22:42
GNUtooto fully replace the GSM firmware you need an os-like thing for microcontrollers22:42
GNUtooand that is nuttx22:42
whitequarkah, got it22:42
viricDocScrutinizer: depending on what are you trying to hide, spending that effort in hiding may not be the most efficient way to go through life. :)22:42
GNUtoowhy using the word hide in the first place22:43
GNUtoonot disclosuring would be better22:43
wpwrakviric: just wait until you've seen Iron Sky ...22:43
GNUtoobecause hide is negative22:43
viricGNUtoo: doing to google as if there were 5 guests at home can also be negative22:44
whitequarkGNUtoo: just curious, can you still buy FR? does it community still live and deliver something usable?22:44
GNUtooyes you can still buy it22:44
GNUtooyes we're trying hard to keep it working fine22:44
GNUtooand SHR is now more stable than before22:44
whitequarkactually a friend can give me away one. he now owns an iPhone22:44
wpwrakviric: each of those 5 people will seem to have 1/5 life. that'll stick out in any profile :)22:44
GNUtooI also know someone I could buy a second freerunner from22:45
whitequarkGNUtoo: SHR?22:45
GNUtooa new distro22:45
GNUtoobased on enlightenment, openembedded and finger friendly22:45
viricwpwrak: are you underestimating DocScrutinizer ? :)22:45
GNUtooat least for the main apps22:45
whitequarkGNUtoo: (replicant) Hardware Freedom issues:Proprietary bootloader,The modem controls the sound,the GPS,and can read/write the main CPU memory,require firmwares for making phone call22:46
viricI imagine people wrote algorithms to detect behaviours like DocScrutinizer's :)22:46
GNUtoowhitequark, depend on the phone22:46
GNUtoonexus S has only proprietary bootloader22:47
whitequarkI wonder if they do that on purpose, or just out of laziness (pin count issues? I don't know for sure)22:47
viricalthoug some have simpler algorithms: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/British-tourists-arrested-America-terror-charges-Twitter-jokes.html22:47
wpwrakviric: this one is going viral :)22:48
whitequarkviric: it's enough to write an algorithm which detects ordinary people, and then closely examine everyone which does not conforms22:48
viricwpwrak: I took it from the main press22:48
wpwrakviric: yes, that one's the first source22:49
viricthen there are people like DocScrutinizer that even get hired to look for that same kind of people :)22:49
GNUtoomaybe they just took tourist for terrorist22:49
GNUtoolike in I don't remember which james bond22:50
viricwpwrak: I don't get where did the officials pick the 'tweet' from22:50
GNUtooanyway social networks are spied a lot22:50
viricGNUtoo: this happened to me22:50
GNUtoowhat happened exactly?22:50
virictwo black men, when I left work, asked me: what is this building?22:51
viricin bad english22:51
viricand I replied in English: "are you tourists"?22:51
viricand they said: no no no. No terrorists. Osama bin laden is dead.22:51
GNUtoolol ouch22:51
GNUtoodid they get arrested?22:51
viricno no22:51
viricit was just them with a map, and me on the bike22:51
DocScrutinizerviric: nope, my behaviour isn't deterministic in whatever way, so no way to write an algo to track it22:52
viricDocScrutinizer: how can you be both paranoid and optimist? ;)22:53
DocScrutinizerbasically they never got the link between 'me' and 'my digital identity'22:53
GNUtoobecause maybe he's not paranoid22:53
GNUtoohe's realist22:53
DocScrutinizerviric: toldya I'm not at all paranoid22:53
GNUtooparanoids is for people not knowing what the technology can do22:53
viricok ok22:53
DocScrutinizerI just take fun out of fooling idiots that think they are smarter than me22:54
GNUtoothen there is the reality which is very bad22:54
viricIt just looks to me that DocScrutinizer takes a reasonable effort in all that.22:54
whitequarkGNUtoo: with all the "modem pwns your phone" stuff I don't see any sense in replicant. almost no actual advantage over plain AOSP22:54
viricDocScrutinizer: but maybe you are as used to that as I use my windowmanger... so...22:54
GNUtoowhitequark, plain aosp just doesn't work22:55
GNUtooplain aosp don't give you the lib to talk to the samsung modem22:55
GNUtooin the case of nexus S22:55
whitequarkGNUtoo: by "plain AOSP" I meant CM22:55
whitequarkworks on SGS222:55
GNUtoothey don't reverse some stuff22:55
whitequarkyes, I know--it's AOSP with blobs22:55
GNUtoothey reverse some other stuff tough22:55
GNUtoolike camera22:55
whitequark... because there are no blobs for ICS, yes22:56
GNUtoobut if they can't reverse they ship blpbs22:56
whitequarkI know22:56
GNUtooif we can't reverse we don't ship the blob22:56
GNUtooanyway I'm more involved in SHR than replicant nowadays22:56
GNUtoobut there is a collaboration for reversing the samsung modems22:56
whitequarkanyway, I am quite sure that if something is spying on you then it's something in the modem22:56
GNUtoo*samgung modems protocols/g/22:56
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: can you confirm that?22:57
DocScrutinizerviric: (hiding) you thourgly got it wrong - I got nothing to hide, still I act like there was anything, then I lmao watching them trying to find out about what it actually is22:57
GNUtoowhitequark, it can be only the bootloader22:57
GNUtoowhitequark, we checked the schematics etc....22:57
whitequarkGNUtoo, bootloader? hm22:57
GNUtoothe modem and the GPS are as isolated as the freerunner22:57
GNUtoomodem is trough shared internal memory, nothing to do with the ram, separate on die 64k22:58
GNUtoothe gps is attached to serial port22:58
GNUtoothe CODEC is controlled by the CPU22:58
GNUtooaltough the default ril has stuff to put and get files on your device22:58
DocScrutinizerviric: once they come to think "dude, this guy actually is boring" I make them think that's catch2222:58
GNUtoonot implemented in replicant of course22:58
viricok o22:59
GNUtoothe main problem is the bootloader, it's signed but that can be defeated22:59
whitequarkGNUtoo: (samsung modem) including SGS2? if yes, I can at least provide my phone as the testbench for them22:59
GNUtoobut I'm more interested by the freerunner with a calypso modem and a free bootloader22:59
DocScrutinizerviric: just one example: I love to negotiate plutonium deals on my phone, with friends that think alike22:59
DocScrutinizerpreferably on international calls23:00
GNUtoowhitequark, basically the transport may be different but replicant developers are really interested on porting to galaxy S II23:00
GNUtooso it should be real quick23:00
GNUtoogalaxy tab modem got done very quickely23:00
GNUtoothere is the init sequence to find trough strace23:00
whitequarkGNUtoo, it's good -- I will write them. I don't have enough time myself, at least atm, but I can give them the hw. not a problem.23:00
GNUtooand then to use the transport23:01
GNUtooand then it's moslty done23:01
GNUtoothe main person doing that is paulk23:01
GNUtooin #replicant23:01
DocScrutinizerviric: I'm so stinking suspicious I just *know* they never get a clue what I'm really doing23:01
GNUtoowhitequark, thanks a lot in advance23:01
viricthat looks funnier :)23:02
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: huh, I like this strategy23:02
viricwell, as you know, it's enough to be suspicious to be treated as a criminal23:02
whitequarkwhat country do you live in? do you think you risk suddenly being in a situation alike with that Monroe-digging-tweet?23:02
whitequarkGNUtoo: replicant mailman is dead23:04
GNUtoomaybe because of DNS change23:04
GNUtoowe switched from trac to another thing23:04
GNUtoothe same than gnuradio23:05
GNUtooI don't remember the name23:05
viricwhitequark: no no, in my country that would not matter. The key terms are others23:05
GNUtooah the old trac is still in place23:05
GNUtooat least here23:05
whitequarkviric: I asked DocScrutinizer btw23:05
viric:) ok23:06
viricok, have a good night all!23:06
larsc"being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you" ;)23:09
larsckind find either why it would do that23:48
wpwrakconsidering that, if the matrix is possible, we probably live in one, it seems only plausible to assume that those who set up our matrix take some interest in what happens here23:54
wpwrakthis means that joerg's feeble attempts at privacy are quite useless23:54
wpwrakalso, whatever he tries to escape, even if it should turn out to be successful, can probably be easily reverted, and appropriate stimuli can be placed at the restart point, to obtain the desired outcome23:56
wpwrakthe same applies to the rest of us as well, of course23:57
--- Tue Jan 31 201200:00

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