| Ayla | DocScrutinizer, who's bashing uBoot? | 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| kristianpaul | DocScrutinizer: first cpu was pentium II 133Mhz wih MMX ;) | 02:16 |
| kristianpaul | and i still have it, other board that compaq box died by 2004 :/ | 02:16 |
| kristianpaul | visual basic and turbo c first compiler.. | 02:18 |
| Action: kristianpaul feel bad about visual basic | 02:18 | |
| kristianpaul | but there was not internet and i got the book for near free | 02:18 |
| kristianpaul | oh really http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/allwinner_a10_gplcompliant_computer_15 ?.. | 02:44 |
| kristianpaul | let see | 02:44 |
| kristianpaul | ha !! | 02:46 |
| kristianpaul | uses kicad and fed plus a makefile !! | 02:47 |
| wpwrak | (fped) kewl ;-) | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | CONFIDENTIAL! ;-P ttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/hidden/20120111_001.jpg | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | (in case you wonder: I intentionally crippled the URL, so it doesn't get spidered) | 06:41 |
| kyak | oh, what a huge leak :) | 06:41 |
| wpwrak | kyak: all this is code. when you visit STE the next time, innocently ask about project Laura :) | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | You might cause eyebrows rising - we got EVB Jenny-v1 and Jenny-v2 | 06:46 |
| kyak | Laura is deprecated now that they've got a dish washine machine (or DWM) :) | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no *Project* Jenny though - it's just the baseband CPU core iirc, on Thorium | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I should check if the other core is actually codename Laura | 06:51 |
| kyak | we already know too much | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed :-D | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | beter look there: http://www.google.de/search?q=novathor+mali400 http://www.google.de/search?q=novathor+snowball | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=Thor+7400 | 07:01 |
| whitequark | DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with uboot bashing? | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, on #maemo I had a discussion with a guy who claimed meego uBoot was buggy and SHR uboot useless, so he "implemented" ext3 support | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | he didn't get the point why meego had to remove ext3 support due to size limitations | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I OTOH don't get the point why you *need* any of that, as it's not particularly hurting to have a small dedicated fat partition for kernel | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a plain unformated raw partition | 07:24 |
| Action: whitequark prefers raw ones | 07:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | also the term "uboot booting into ext3" made me frown, as it's the kernel that boots into a FS, uboot just loads kernel *from* some location | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | on GTA02 I had a 16GB uSD with a ~14GB VFAT with kernel and all my MP3, and it was very convenient to use this card in a USB stick cardreader with any PC | 07:30 |
| wpwrak | when u-boot was young, it laid awake at night, dreaming of being an operating system | 07:34 |
| wpwrak | now it's old, fat, and thinks it's an operating system | 07:34 |
| wpwrak | btw, for booting from strange file systems, there's always the option of establishing your own mapping. almost 20 years of booting with lilo say it works ;-) | 07:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 07:42 |
| whitequark | it's a variation of jwz's law | 08:02 |
| whitequark | "every bootloader expands until it becomes a horribly incomplete operating system implementation" | 08:02 |
| whitequark | "those who do not are repalced with those who do" (grub1/grub2) | 08:03 |
| kristianpaul | s/fed/fped | 11:13 |
| mth | hmm, why is JFFS2 enabled in the nanonote kernel defconfig? | 11:16 |
| kristianpaul | openwrt legacy? | 11:17 |
| mth | if there is no reason to keep it enabled, we can save some ram by disabling it | 11:18 |
| whitequark | http://www.ixbt.com/news/hard/index.shtml?15/40/98 | 12:18 |
| whitequark | oh, stupid me | 12:22 |
| whitequark | http://www.marvell.com/company/news/pressDetail.do?releaseID=2003 | 12:22 |
| wolfspraul | just got my ColorHug! :-) http://www.hughski.com/ | 12:29 |
| blogic | whitequark: looking for see mips run linux | 12:31 |
| blogic | and G points me at whitequark.org | 12:31 |
| blogic | could that be you ?! :D | 12:32 |
| blogic | files.whitequark.org/Morgan.Kaufmann.See.MIPS.Run.2nd.Edition.p... | 12:32 |
| whitequark | blogic: oops | 12:36 |
| whitequark | that's a symlink to /var/to... no you haven't seen that. | 12:36 |
| blogic | what ? | 12:37 |
| blogic | who are you | 12:37 |
| blogic | anyhow G lists you as hit nr1 | 12:37 |
| blogic | :D | 12:37 |
| whitequark | lol | 12:37 |
| whitequark | (what) a symlink to /var/torrents. | 12:37 |
| whitequark | I'm the only seeder for that book on tpb. | 12:37 |
| blogic | haha | 12:38 |
| blogic | seed and copy | 12:38 |
| whitequark | because I've had a hard time finding it and I wanted to make it easier. | 12:38 |
| whitequark | but hit no1 is funny | 12:38 |
| whitequark | hm | 12:38 |
| whitequark | for me, that's amazon | 12:38 |
| blogic | "see mips run linux" filetype:pdf | 12:38 |
| whitequark | and wq.org is 4th | 12:38 |
| whitequark | ahh | 12:38 |
| whitequark | yes, that. | 12:38 |
| whitequark | I don't care actually | 12:39 |
| whitequark | I'll let it stay this way. | 12:39 |
| blogic | yes | 12:39 |
| blogic | i just wanted to say "thank you" :D | 12:39 |
| whitequark | thanks:D the world is smaller than it looks like | 12:40 |
| whitequark | maybe I'll go to Germany next year and meet DocScrutinizer accidentally... | 12:40 |
| blogic | that did happen to me once | 12:41 |
| blogic | well not with DocScrutinizer | 12:41 |
| blogic | as a 10 year old child i was on vacation in denmark with my parents | 12:41 |
| blogic | the house next to us was a spanish family and i spent the holidays playing in the garden with their 10 year old son | 12:41 |
| blogic | at age 23-24 i was in london and on a random street a guy taps on my shoulder and says ... "you are john" | 12:42 |
| blogic | and it was that exact same spanish dude that recognized me | 12:42 |
| blogic | very bizarre | 12:42 |
| blogic | specially as i have been in londond for a total of 5 days in my life | 12:42 |
| blogic | :D | 12:42 |
| Ayla | cool story :) | 12:43 |
| whitequark | heh | 12:47 |
| zrafa | wolfspra1l: ColorHug : cool ! :) | 13:00 |
| wolfspra1l | yes, a very nice open hardware project | 13:01 |
| wolfspra1l | https://gitorious.org/colorhug | 13:02 |
| whitequark | wanna something funny? | 13:35 |
| whitequark | I've just written a decompiler for AS3 flash bytecode | 13:35 |
| whitequark | just look at this miracle of a compiler they have | 13:35 |
| whitequark | http://pastie.org/3172312 | 13:35 |
| whitequark | 317, 318, 325 | 13:36 |
| whitequark | 318 is never reached | 13:36 |
| whitequark | and 325 is invalid opcode | 13:36 |
| whitequark | I repeat: their compiler emits invalid unreachable code, and their verifier eats that >_< | 13:36 |
| whitequark | so fucking incredibly braindead | 13:36 |
| blogic | AS3 is what soc ? | 13:37 |
| blogic | the apple thing ? | 13:37 |
| whitequark | err | 13:37 |
| whitequark | Flash ActionScript 3. | 13:37 |
| blogic | ahhhhh | 13:37 |
| whitequark | that banner thingy. | 13:37 |
| whitequark | I am continously amazed by its stupidity. | 13:37 |
| wpwrak | 325 looks valid in thelisting | 14:12 |
| wpwrak | anyway, if318 is never reached, then neither is 325 -> no problem ;-) | 14:12 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: 325 jumps past the end of function | 14:34 |
| whitequark | there's no L10 | 14:34 |
| whitequark | and why the hell a sane compiler would emit something like this, ever? | 14:34 |
| larsc | debug information | 14:35 |
| whitequark | hm | 14:38 |
| whitequark | larsc: can you provide an example? | 14:38 |
| wpwrak | moore's law :) | 14:39 |
| larsc | whitequark: i have no idea what i'm talking about ;) | 14:43 |
| larsc | and i have no idea how action script works, but my first guess would be that this simply aren't instructions, but data | 14:44 |
| whitequark | larsc: nope, there's a LOT of metadata accompanying these methods | 15:00 |
| whitequark | really a lot | 15:00 |
| whitequark | and the debugging info has another format | 15:00 |
| larsc | ok | 15:00 |
| whitequark | it's also stupid enough to do things like: | 15:01 |
| whitequark | negate | 15:01 |
| whitequark | iffalse | 15:01 |
| whitequark | etc. | 15:01 |
| whitequark | want to see a piece of modern art? | 15:44 |
| whitequark | a CFG of a big method in bytecode. | 15:44 |
| whitequark | oh, nevermind. I think I've just DoSed imgur. | 15:44 |
| whitequark | sent a 6MiB png which expands to ~1 gig bitmap. | 15:45 |
| viric | :) | 16:08 |
| larsc | whitequark: you do strange things today | 16:11 |
| whitequark | larsc: well | 16:16 |
| whitequark | a friend of mine asked to deobfuscate him a Flash file | 16:17 |
| whitequark | ... and I know Ruby, in which it takes one day to implement entire Flash binary format (compared to a week in C++)... | 16:17 |
| whitequark | and I have been working on a static analyzer for OOP languages recently | 16:18 |
| whitequark | so I've had a ready to use dead code elimination pass | 16:18 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1nor: lock the read-only portions of the flash after flashing (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/2e46384 | 17:04 |
| viric | oh, I saw uboot picked the nanonote support on october | 19:17 |
| viric | do you run the latest uboot? | 19:17 |
| whitequark | LOL | 19:23 |
| whitequark | I've reduced the code size by 100k | 19:23 |
| whitequark | without impairing any functionality | 19:23 |
| whitequark | *10% | 19:23 |
| whitequark | that 10% were dead code. | 19:23 |
| whitequark | are Adobe developers too stupid to read, maybe, LLVM tutorial? or a 40-year-old book on compilers? | 19:24 |
| whitequark | I assume they are. | 19:24 |
| whitequark | what did I do? I ran a single DCE pass. In, maybe, 100 lines of code. | 19:25 |
| viric | what do you talk about? | 19:26 |
| whitequark | a friend asked me to make a deobfuscator for a certain Flash file | 19:27 |
| whitequark | the obfuscation consisted of a jmp and 9 bytes of random invalid opcodes | 19:28 |
| whitequark | I made a simple dead code elimination pass | 19:28 |
| whitequark | it eliminated all of the obfuscation and also a whole lot of dead code which was emitted by Flash compiler | 19:28 |
| whitequark | circa 10%. | 19:28 |
| viric | ok | 19:32 |
| whitequark | no wonder it's so slow and cpu-hungry | 19:36 |
| whitequark | I guess the VM is written in similar style. | 19:36 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: fbcon: continue parsing parameters after an error. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/a836fb4 | 19:40 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Paul Cercueil: fbcon: optimize parameters parsing loop. (jz-3.2) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b4105ec | 19:40 |
| wpwrak | whitequark: you probably care more about that pile of junk than anyone at adobe ;-) | 19:47 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: probably | 19:57 |
| whitequark | at least my code is way more complex than theirs | 19:57 |
| whitequark | I doubt they ever heard about DCE or CFG | 19:57 |
| whitequark | ... or that their lookupswitch opcode and jump 0; returnvoid is a psi node remnants | 19:58 |
| Ayla | hi | 20:01 |
| whitequark | hello | 20:01 |
| Ayla | can anybody enlight me about the __setup() macro? | 20:01 |
| Ayla | it takes a callback as a parameter, | 20:04 |
| Ayla | but I can't find a documentation about what means the return value | 20:04 |
| Ayla | on some drivers, the callback returns 1 all the time, even when everything went right (e.g. on drivers/video/console/fbcon.c) | 20:04 |
| viric | Ayla: I'd also like to know | 20:05 |
| viric | Ayla: how people learn about those macros? __init, ... | 20:05 |
| Ayla | on other drivers, like drivers/iommu/intel-iommu.c the callback returns 0 | 20:06 |
| Ayla | viric: I guess experience :) | 20:06 |
| whitequark | lxr? | 20:06 |
| whitequark | http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v3.2/+code=__setup | 20:06 |
| viric | whitequark: you mean reverse engineering? :) | 20:07 |
| whitequark | viric: I mean "the code is the best documentation" | 20:08 |
| whitequark | afaik no other docs exist on these macros | 20:08 |
| viric | sometimes there is not a big difference between source and binary | 20:08 |
| whitequark | (except for developer's brains) | 20:08 |
| viric | also some people use to name the electronic schematics 'source' | 20:09 |
| viric | while for me it's still some sort of binary | 20:09 |
| Artyom | kristianpaul hello :) | 20:09 |
| viric | usually with zero information about why those components and no others | 20:09 |
| whitequark | magic | 20:10 |
| whitequark | you have to accept that ;) | 20:10 |
| viric | people go through a process for the design | 20:10 |
| viric | if that isn't document, it's like no source for me | 20:10 |
| viric | documented | 20:10 |
| kristianpaul | hi.. | 20:15 |
| larsc | viric: ldd3.pdf is a good start i think | 20:18 |
| Ayla | larsc: is that a problem if one variable has the same name as a structure? | 20:32 |
| Ayla | should I name it differently? | 20:32 |
| larsc | nope | 20:33 |
| larsc | variables and structs live in different namespaces | 20:34 |
| larsc | i actually quite often write 'struct foo *foo' in drivers | 20:34 |
| Ayla | ok, thanks | 20:34 |
| viric | ah ok | 20:36 |
| viric | larsc: I always wanted to read that... good reminder :) | 20:36 |
| viric | a program I wrote (and in openwrt by xiangfu) had an article in linux-magazin. | 21:30 |
| viric | I'll take a cup of 'Cichorium' to celebrate | 21:31 |
| larsc | got a link? or is it offline media? | 21:36 |
| wolfspra1l | viric: congratulations, that's a nice recognition | 21:39 |
| wolfspra1l | what is Cichorium? (searching...) :-) | 21:39 |
| wolfspra1l | this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cichorium | 21:41 |
| wolfspra1l | interesting | 21:41 |
| viric | yes, very nice. the only cite known by google of that software :) | 21:46 |
| viric | I thought I was alone in the world using it. and maybe there is someone else | 21:47 |
| viric | also long ago they published about "Task Spooler" http://www.linux-magazin.de/Heft-Abo/Ausgaben/2008/05/Tooltipps | 21:48 |
| viric | so, I can only flatter their good taste, even never having read that magazine :) | 21:49 |
| wolfspra1l | viric: sorry I still don't understand. is the new article online or not? | 21:50 |
| viric | under payment | 21:50 |
| wolfspra1l | viric: aha. reading 'other varieties [of Cichorium] are grown for their roots, which are used as a coffee substitute' | 21:58 |
| wolfspra1l | that sounds more familiar :-) | 21:58 |
| viric | hehe | 22:00 |
| viric | I didn't imagine you would engage in an investigation ;) | 22:00 |
| wolfspra1l | oh you can imagine me strawling over the winter meadows tomorrow, color wikipedia photo in my hands, searching for that Cichorium | 22:10 |
| wolfspra1l | or maybe not, ok. have to try usb-midi :-) | 22:10 |
| viric | haha | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | whitequark: how comes you think meeting me might be a desirable event? ;-D | 22:15 |
| whitequark | DocScrutinizer: because I've seen your work and it's awesome. Even if we'd have radically different opinions on some- (or every)thing, an event which I'd not disregard as entirely impossible, I'd say that it would be the time for me to shut up and listen. | 22:31 |
| frdminc | Anyone around who could help me / point me to doc on how to get a DMX light working with M1/Flickernoise? | 22:32 |
| whitequark | frdminc: try #milkymist | 22:32 |
| frdminc | whitequark: thanks, will do | 22:32 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: maybe he thinks it's generally desirable for you to be well fed ? :) | 22:36 |
| wolfspra1l | frdminc: welcome to Qi Hardware btw. You have a Milkymist One? | 22:45 |
| wolfspra1l | if so - what are your plans with it? | 22:45 |
| frdminc | wolfspra1l: trying to get it set up in time for a small college party tomorrow night. we have a projector and 3 LED DMX lights an alum donated a while back | 23:01 |
| whitequark | wpwrak: how many innocent people has he consumed already? | 23:01 |
| wolfspra1l | frdminc: oh wow, nice! | 23:02 |
| wolfspra1l | ok by all means, if you run into trouble holler here or in #milkymist | 23:03 |
| wpwrak | whitequark: dunno. i've heard he's kinda skinny. but i'm not sure if this means that he doesn't eat much or just that he's hungry | 23:09 |
| whitequark | maybe both | 23:16 |
| whitequark | it's or and not xor ;) | 23:17 |
| pabs3 | whitequark: will you release that flash decoder thing? sounds useful for web hackers | 23:51 |
| whitequark | pabs3: hm | 23:51 |
| whitequark | on one hand, it has already generated an enormous (for 2500 lines of code done in three days) amount of profit for me | 23:52 |
| Action: pabs3 is the Debian maintainer of flasm, a flash disassembler (only works with old flash) | 23:52 | |
| whitequark | on the other hand, anyone clever enough to understand how that works could possibly write the same | 23:52 |
| whitequark | so, I think I will | 23:52 |
| pabs3 | awesome | 23:53 |
| pabs3 | poke me if you do | 23:53 |
| whitequark | a colleague plans on writing an IDA-like IDE | 23:53 |
| whitequark | but that'll stay out of my reach, and I think it has some changes to stay closed-source | 23:53 |
| whitequark | my library will be packaged as a Ruby gem | 23:53 |
| whitequark | so I think there's nothing you can do | 23:53 |
| pabs3 | there is something like that here: http://bokken.inguma.eu | 23:54 |
| whitequark | hm | 23:54 |
| whitequark | pyew | 23:54 |
| whitequark | is that in python? | 23:54 |
| pabs3 | yes | 23:54 |
| whitequark | also, very ambituous. that's sad. | 23:55 |
| pabs3 | why sad? | 23:55 |
| whitequark | ambituous software projects in python are almost always written by novice developers, and tend to have quite bad code quality. | 23:56 |
| whitequark | I'll look into it anyway | 23:56 |
| whitequark | pabs3: http://inguma.eu/projects/bokken/repository/entry/ui/opcodes.py | 23:59 |
| whitequark | x86 is hardcoded everywhere | 23:59 |
| whitequark | that's what I was talking about | 23:59 |
| --- Fri Jan 13 2012 | 00:00 | |
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