| viric | the wiki is a big presentation card of the nanonote. :) | 07:23 |
|---|---|---|
| Ayla | any network experts here? | 12:10 |
| viric | lots, but at lunch time | 12:11 |
| Ayla | ok, fixed | 12:33 |
| tradej | hi guys! | 14:11 |
| tradej | i have been working for some time on fedora and came to find this whole open-source hardware thing pretty interesting. does any of you know how to get ben nanonote in the czech republic (amazon doesn't ship it directly and i don't really want to use a middleman) | 14:12 |
| viric | tradej: I think tuxbrain sells to the whole europe | 14:16 |
| viric | https://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=99&osCsid=16r2eb57u3n11gr5ictt19d3o4 for example | 14:16 |
| tradej | viric: oh, thank you, i'll check it out | 14:19 |
| wolfspraul | tradej: yes, tuxbrain, definitely | 14:21 |
| wolfspraul | what part of open-source hardware interests you? | 14:21 |
| wolfspraul | if you are curious, I can also recommend following the Qi planet at http://en.qi-hardware.com/planet | 14:22 |
| tradej | wolfspraul: cool. ad interest: well, any of it. lately i read that r. stallman uses a lemote, and was interested what else is possible | 14:23 |
| wolfspraul | if you follow that for a few weeks or so, you will get a good overview of interesting open hardware projects | 14:23 |
| viric | tradej: I think the european distributor for that is dutch | 14:23 |
| viric | tradej: http://www.tekmote.nl/ | 14:23 |
| wolfspraul | ok yes, the Ben NanoNote is definitely a very unique pocket computer | 14:24 |
| viric | tradej: kristianpaul has a yeelong, and mstevens and me have fuloong | 14:24 |
| wolfspraul | open hardware is a big field | 14:24 |
| wolfspraul | so there are many specializations | 14:24 |
| wolfspraul | the Ben NanoNote aims to be a polished end-user product yet at the same time only use high-quality free software | 14:24 |
| tradej | yeelong looks really nice, but is quite pricey simply as a gadget, nanonote is more like what i'm looking for | 14:25 |
| tradej | viric: do you by any chance know what OS kristianpaul and mstevens are running on their machines? | 14:27 |
| viric | they use debians | 14:29 |
| viric | But me not ):) | 14:29 |
| tradej | oh, i didn't catch you have it as well | 14:30 |
| tradej | what are you running? | 14:30 |
| viric | I run nixos | 14:30 |
| viric | I also don't run openwrt on the nanonote. I run nanonixos | 14:30 |
| tradej | viric: hmm, nixos looks interesting | 14:33 |
| viric | of course | 14:33 |
| viric | larsc: any idea about perf not building, then? | 15:17 |
| kristianpaul | viric: what nanonixos can offer us nanonote owners? :) | 15:57 |
| kristianpaul | wiki have plenty information about nanonote i think, well, aplication list could be more descriptive .. | 15:58 |
| kristianpaul | tradej: yes debian | 15:59 |
| kristianpaul | wanted to try fedora 16 but my other laptop bios wasnot happy with :/ | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | FEL is something i want to use | 16:00 |
| kristianpaul | i must said i regret i dint met nanonote before yeeloong, but in the sense of openess well i like it a lot just after milkymist | 16:03 |
| kristianpaul | :-) | 16:03 |
| tradej | kristianpaul: the fedora 16 thing is related to your yeelong? | 16:07 |
| kristianpaul | nope | 16:22 |
| tradej | kristianpaul: that's good. if i buy a yeelong i'd like to run fedora on it (i know we've got some support on MIPS) | 16:33 |
| Action: C-Keen runs openbsd on his yeelong | 16:34 | |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: I want to reduce the kicad cmdline options a little to the ones we actually need or plan to use | 16:45 |
| wolfspraul | I'm trying to fix some pcbnew --plot errors right now | 16:45 |
| wolfspraul | do we need all 4 - hpgl, gerber, postscript, dxf when plotting from pcbnew? | 16:46 |
| wpwrak | hpgl and dxf probably not | 16:51 |
| wolfspraul | ok, great. removing :-) | 16:51 |
| wolfspraul | they may be helpful somewhere in PCB production | 16:51 |
| wolfspraul | dxf for the edge? (for example) | 16:52 |
| wolfspraul | also I think I will change my approach of the cmdline patches. before I tried to cleanly separate from the dialog classes | 16:52 |
| wolfspraul | but there is too much logic in the dialog classes | 16:52 |
| wpwrak | ah no. dxf is used as well | 16:52 |
| wolfspraul | so now I will drive the dialog classes instead, and patch/hack out actual GUI updates or popups | 16:52 |
| wolfspraul | it's hackier but more realistic and easier to maintain | 16:53 |
| wpwrak | not by my scripts, but fabs may like it | 16:53 |
| wolfspraul | ok so just remove hpgl for now? | 16:53 |
| wolfspraul | I rather have fewer options and they are better supported and tested | 16:53 |
| wpwrak | sounds very hackish. maybe float the idea on the list ? | 16:53 |
| wolfspraul | otherwise we have lots of options, but they mostly produce junk files. that's easy. | 16:53 |
| wolfspraul | well let me get it to work first, it's easy to change things | 16:53 |
| wolfspraul | it's not hackish, I'm just learning more about the KiCad sources over time | 16:54 |
| wolfspraul | better to drive the dialog classes... | 16:54 |
| wolfspraul | before I was copy/pasting out of them, but not good | 16:54 |
| wpwrak | seems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that was OO is all about ? ;-)) | 16:54 |
| wpwrak | s/was/what/ | 16:54 |
| wolfspraul | it's easier to have a global g_CmdLineMode, and then just skip the dialogs and automatically jump to a (virtual) press of OK. | 16:55 |
| wpwrak | ;-)) | 16:55 |
| wolfspraul | well there is a lot of logic in the dialog classes | 16:55 |
| wolfspraul | especially about settings, where they come from and so forth | 16:55 |
| wolfspraul | keep in mind that there is another GUI framework underneath, the wx stuff | 16:55 |
| wolfspraul | so that's already a dialog abstraction | 16:55 |
| wpwrak | maybe clean up the dialogs first ? dialog -> setup, dialog, processing ? | 16:56 |
| wolfspraul | the kicad dialog classes encode the logic needed to drive those dialogs | 16:56 |
| wpwrak | phew | 16:56 |
| wolfspraul | that is relatively clean because of the underlying wx framework | 16:56 |
| wolfspraul | I just skip the ShowModal() and go straight to OnOK() :-) | 16:56 |
| wolfspraul | other than that I run through the hundreds sometimes more lines of code of the dialog class | 16:56 |
| wpwrak | ah, if it's just a call, then it may not be so bad | 16:56 |
| wolfspraul | it's also easier to maintain and in the long run easier to support changes and enhancements to the dialogs | 16:57 |
| wolfspraul | because we are just 'driving' the dialog controls, from the command line | 16:57 |
| wolfspraul | anyway | 16:57 |
| wolfspraul | so I remove hpgl? | 16:57 |
| wolfspraul | do you need the "Force A4" setting when plotting Postscript in pcbnew? | 16:58 |
| wpwrak | i haven't found any use of hpgl in the code | 16:58 |
| wpwrak | you mean --plot=ps_a4 ? i use that | 16:58 |
| wolfspraul | oops. just removed :-) (will add it back in) | 16:59 |
| wolfspraul | I want to stay close to the dialogs, in the structure of the cmdline | 16:59 |
| wolfspraul | what do you think? | 16:59 |
| wolfspraul | for ps_a4, that means now it just became a checkbox in the ps tab | 16:59 |
| wpwrak | dunno. as long as the dialogs stay close to themselves, that'll work | 17:00 |
| wolfspraul | if we follow that the cmdline syntax would change to --plot=ps --force-a4 | 17:00 |
| wolfspraul | if not, we have more stability in the cmdline, but they diverge from the terminology and layout of the dialogs | 17:00 |
| wolfspraul | I rather go with kicad, unless we have a large cmdline user base (which we don't have today) | 17:00 |
| wpwrak | you may be discussing this with just your entire user base ;-) | 17:02 |
| wolfspraul | yes | 17:02 |
| wolfspraul | world-class customer support, as always | 17:02 |
| wolfspraul | 100% of customer needs addressed | 17:02 |
| wolfspraul | actually, seriously, that's the advantage of a smaller community :-) | 17:02 |
| wolfspraul | so we can switch to --plot=ps --force-a4 ? | 17:03 |
| wolfspraul | robably I would make it --ps-force-a4 | 17:04 |
| wolfspraul | because the dialogs are clearly saying now which plot option the settings are for | 17:04 |
| wpwrak | sounds better, yes. okay. i think i know where all my uses of pcbnew are. | 17:04 |
| wolfspraul | so --plot=ps --ps-force-a4 | 17:04 |
| wpwrak | (i currently always use pcbnew --plot=ps_a4) | 17:05 |
| wolfspraul | because in the old kicad dialogs, the list of formats was gerber/hpgl/dxf/ps/ps_a4 | 17:05 |
| wolfspraul | so the cmdline options follow that | 17:05 |
| wpwrak | ah :) | 17:05 |
| wolfspraul | but they moved the "Force A4 output" into the ps format now | 17:05 |
| wolfspraul | I think we shuold follow kicad | 17:05 |
| wolfspraul | even if that breaks cmdline compatibility | 17:06 |
| larsc | viric: no idea. but it looks like some kernel userspace incompatibility | 18:13 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: in pcbnew plotting, there is an option fill-all-zones | 19:27 |
| wolfspraul | I cannot find a match in the dialog of kicad HEAD anymore | 19:28 |
| wolfspraul | maybe this is always enabled now? do we ever not set this? or ever set it? | 19:28 |
| wpwrak | i use it. dunno if it's now always enabled. wouldn't be a bad idea if it was. | 19:29 |
| wolfspraul | yeah maybe it is | 19:30 |
| wolfspraul | or maybe never, argh | 19:32 |
| wolfspraul | ok I leave the option as-is for now | 19:32 |
| viric | larsc: hm ok | 20:18 |
| viric | larsc: I'd had thought perf had the same kernel interface as oprofile | 20:18 |
| viric | but looks like not | 20:19 |
| larsc | but the api should at least be stable | 20:20 |
| larsc | have you tried with 3.2? | 20:22 |
| viric | hm no | 20:26 |
| viric | I'll start playing with a recent kernel soon | 20:26 |
| viric | I really want to get kgdb working :) | 20:26 |
| viric | and kdb | 20:28 |
| larsc | good luck :) | 20:28 |
| larsc | but tell me if you succeed, i'd interested in trying it myself | 20:29 |
| viric | sure sure, I'll report | 20:36 |
| blogic | kgdb only requires 2 functions to be defined | 20:37 |
| blogic | and a script on the host pc to seperate console from gdb putpout | 20:37 |
| viric | ok | 20:41 |
| viric | I'll have to learn that | 20:41 |
| viric | I did not plan to have the console in the same tty though | 20:41 |
| viric | but if that's possible, even better | 20:41 |
| blogic | it is | 20:43 |
| blogic | there is a multiplexer script | 20:43 |
| blogic | basically the script opens ttyX and created ptyY and ptyZ | 20:43 |
| blogic | and then you have console on 1 pty and gdb on the second | 20:43 |
| viric | blogic: can there even be a mingetty in the console line? | 21:22 |
| blogic | i would assume so | 21:37 |
| viric | hm great | 21:40 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: do we need the drill report from pcbnew? | 21:51 |
| wolfspraul | or drill map? | 21:51 |
| wolfspraul | File -> Fabrication Outputs -> Drill File | 21:51 |
| wpwrak | yes, we need pcbnew --drill --origin=aux | 22:05 |
| wolfspraul | we don't have that now, do we? | 22:06 |
| wolfspraul | origins are absolute and aux | 22:06 |
| wpwrak | if we didn't then my imagination must be extremely strong ;-) | 22:06 |
| wpwrak | it's used to provide the drill map for the pcb fab. and also for the "pretty" pcb image | 22:07 |
| wpwrak | btw, most of my kicad magic is here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad | 22:08 |
| wolfspraul | ah ok, yes | 22:08 |
| wolfspraul | ahh, you added it :-) | 22:09 |
| wpwrak | oh :) | 22:13 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: do you use --list-layers or -l anywhere to specify only specific layers for the plotting? | 22:45 |
| wolfspraul | or you always just run the plotting and then pick the files you need? | 22:46 |
| wpwrak | lemme see ... | 22:50 |
| wpwrak | yes, both | 22:51 |
| wolfspraul | oh :-) | 22:51 |
| wpwrak | see http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad :) | 22:51 |
| wpwrak | target $(GERBERS) line 94 | 22:52 |
| wpwrak | that may be the only place that has --list-layers. i have -l at a few other places as well | 22:52 |
| --- Tue Jan 10 2012 | 00:00 | |
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