#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2012-01-09

viricthe wiki is a big  presentation card of the nanonote. :)07:23
Aylaany network experts here?12:10
viriclots, but at lunch time12:11
Aylaok, fixed12:33
tradejhi guys!14:11
tradeji have been working for some time on fedora and came to find this whole open-source hardware thing pretty interesting. does any of you know how to get ben nanonote in the czech republic (amazon doesn't ship it directly and i don't really want to use a middleman)14:12
virictradej: I think tuxbrain sells to the whole europe14:16
virichttps://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=99&osCsid=16r2eb57u3n11gr5ictt19d3o4 for example14:16
tradejviric: oh, thank you, i'll check it out14:19
wolfspraultradej: yes, tuxbrain, definitely14:21
wolfspraulwhat part of open-source hardware interests you?14:21
wolfspraulif you are curious, I can also recommend following the Qi planet at http://en.qi-hardware.com/planet14:22
tradejwolfspraul: cool. ad interest: well, any of it. lately i read that r. stallman uses a lemote, and was interested what else is possible14:23
wolfspraulif you follow that for a few weeks or so, you will get a good overview of interesting open hardware projects14:23
virictradej: I think the european distributor for that is dutch14:23
virictradej: http://www.tekmote.nl/14:23
wolfspraulok yes, the Ben NanoNote is definitely a very unique pocket computer14:24
virictradej: kristianpaul has a yeelong, and mstevens and me have fuloong14:24
wolfspraulopen hardware is a big field14:24
wolfspraulso there are many specializations14:24
wolfspraulthe Ben NanoNote aims to be a polished end-user product yet at the same time only use high-quality free software14:24
tradejyeelong looks really nice, but is quite pricey simply as a gadget, nanonote is more like what i'm looking for14:25
tradejviric: do you by any chance know what OS kristianpaul and mstevens are running on their machines?14:27
viricthey use debians14:29
viricBut me not ):)14:29
tradejoh, i didn't catch you have it as well14:30
tradejwhat are you running?14:30
viricI run nixos14:30
viricI also don't run openwrt on the nanonote. I run nanonixos14:30
tradejviric: hmm, nixos looks interesting14:33
viricof course14:33
viriclarsc: any idea about perf not building, then?15:17
kristianpaulviric: what nanonixos can offer us nanonote owners? :)15:57
kristianpaulwiki have plenty information about nanonote i think, well, aplication list could be more descriptive ..15:58
kristianpaultradej: yes debian 15:59
kristianpaulwanted to try fedora 16 but my other laptop bios wasnot happy with :/16:00
kristianpaulFEL is something i want to use16:00
kristianpauli must said i regret i dint met nanonote before yeeloong, but in the sense of openess well i like it a lot just after milkymist16:03
kristianpaul:-)16:03
tradejkristianpaul: the fedora 16 thing is related to your yeelong?16:07
kristianpaulnope16:22
tradejkristianpaul: that's good. if i buy a yeelong i'd like to run fedora on it (i know we've got some support on MIPS)16:33
Action: C-Keen runs openbsd on his yeelong16:34
wolfspraulwpwrak: I want to reduce the kicad cmdline options a little to the ones we actually need or plan to use16:45
wolfspraulI'm trying to fix some pcbnew --plot errors right now16:45
wolfsprauldo we need all 4 - hpgl, gerber, postscript, dxf when plotting from pcbnew?16:46
wpwrakhpgl and dxf probably not16:51
wolfspraulok, great. removing :-)16:51
wolfspraulthey may be helpful somewhere in PCB production16:51
wolfsprauldxf for the edge? (for example)16:52
wolfspraulalso I think I will change my approach of the cmdline patches. before I tried to cleanly separate from the dialog classes16:52
wolfspraulbut there is too much logic in the dialog classes16:52
wpwrakah no. dxf is used as well16:52
wolfspraulso now I will drive the dialog classes instead, and patch/hack out actual GUI updates or popups16:52
wolfspraulit's hackier but more realistic and easier to maintain16:53
wpwraknot by my scripts, but fabs may like it16:53
wolfspraulok so just remove hpgl for now?16:53
wolfspraulI rather have fewer options and they are better supported and tested16:53
wpwraksounds very hackish. maybe float the idea on the list ?16:53
wolfspraulotherwise we have lots of options, but they mostly produce junk files. that's easy.16:53
wolfspraulwell let me get it to work first, it's easy to change things16:53
wolfspraulit's not hackish, I'm just learning more about the KiCad sources over time16:54
wolfspraulbetter to drive the dialog classes...16:54
wolfspraulbefore I was copy/pasting out of them, but not good16:54
wpwrakseems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that was OO is all about ? ;-))16:54
wpwraks/was/what/16:54
wolfspraulit's easier to have a global g_CmdLineMode, and then just skip the dialogs and automatically jump to a (virtual) press of OK.16:55
wpwrak;-))16:55
wolfspraulwell there is a lot of logic in the dialog classes16:55
wolfspraulespecially about settings, where they come from and so forth16:55
wolfspraulkeep in mind that there is another GUI framework underneath, the wx stuff16:55
wolfspraulso that's already a dialog abstraction16:55
wpwrakmaybe clean up the dialogs first ? dialog -> setup, dialog, processing ?16:56
wolfspraulthe kicad dialog classes encode the logic needed to drive those dialogs16:56
wpwrakphew16:56
wolfspraulthat is relatively clean because of the underlying wx framework16:56
wolfspraulI just skip the ShowModal() and go straight to OnOK() :-)16:56
wolfspraulother than that I run through the hundreds sometimes more lines of code of the dialog class16:56
wpwrakah, if it's just a call, then it may not be so bad16:56
wolfspraulit's also easier to maintain and in the long run easier to support changes and enhancements to the dialogs16:57
wolfspraulbecause we are just 'driving' the dialog controls, from the command line16:57
wolfspraulanyway16:57
wolfspraulso I remove hpgl?16:57
wolfsprauldo you need the "Force A4" setting when plotting Postscript in pcbnew?16:58
wpwraki haven't found any use of hpgl in the code16:58
wpwrakyou mean  --plot=ps_a4  ? i use that16:58
wolfsprauloops. just removed :-) (will add it back in)16:59
wolfspraulI want to stay close to the dialogs, in the structure of the cmdline16:59
wolfspraulwhat do you think?16:59
wolfspraulfor ps_a4, that means now it just became a checkbox in the ps tab16:59
wpwrakdunno. as long as the dialogs stay close to themselves, that'll work17:00
wolfspraulif we follow that the cmdline syntax would change to --plot=ps --force-a417:00
wolfspraulif not, we have more stability in the cmdline, but they diverge from the terminology and layout of the dialogs17:00
wolfspraulI rather go with kicad, unless we have a large cmdline user base (which we don't have today)17:00
wpwrakyou may be discussing this with just your entire user base ;-)17:02
wolfspraulyes17:02
wolfspraulworld-class customer support, as always17:02
wolfspraul100% of customer needs addressed17:02
wolfspraulactually, seriously, that's the advantage of a smaller community :-)17:02
wolfspraulso we can switch to --plot=ps --force-a4 ?17:03
wolfspraulrobably I would make it --ps-force-a417:04
wolfspraulbecause the dialogs are clearly saying now which plot option the settings are for17:04
wpwraksounds better, yes. okay. i think i know where all my uses of pcbnew are.17:04
wolfspraulso --plot=ps --ps-force-a417:04
wpwrak(i currently always use pcbnew --plot=ps_a4)17:05
wolfspraulbecause in the old kicad dialogs, the list of formats was gerber/hpgl/dxf/ps/ps_a417:05
wolfspraulso the cmdline options follow that17:05
wpwrakah :)17:05
wolfspraulbut they moved the "Force A4 output" into the ps format now17:05
wolfspraulI think we shuold follow kicad17:05
wolfsprauleven if that breaks cmdline compatibility17:06
larscviric: no idea. but it looks like some kernel userspace incompatibility18:13
wolfspraulwpwrak: in pcbnew plotting, there is an option fill-all-zones19:27
wolfspraulI cannot find a match in the dialog of kicad HEAD anymore19:28
wolfspraulmaybe this is always enabled now? do we ever not set this? or ever set it?19:28
wpwraki use it. dunno if it's now always enabled. wouldn't be a bad idea if it was.19:29
wolfspraulyeah maybe it is19:30
wolfspraulor maybe never, argh19:32
wolfspraulok I leave the option as-is for now19:32
viriclarsc: hm ok20:18
viriclarsc: I'd had thought perf had the same kernel interface as oprofile20:18
viricbut looks like not20:19
larscbut the api should at least be stable20:20
larschave you tried with 3.2?20:22
virichm no20:26
viricI'll start playing with a recent kernel soon20:26
viricI really want to get kgdb working :)20:26
viricand kdb20:28
larscgood luck :)20:28
larscbut tell me if you succeed, i'd interested in trying it myself20:29
viricsure sure, I'll report20:36
blogickgdb only requires 2 functions to be defined20:37
blogicand a script on the host pc to seperate console from gdb putpout20:37
viricok20:41
viricI'll have to learn that20:41
viricI did not plan to have the console in the same tty though20:41
viricbut if that's possible, even better20:41
blogicit is20:43
blogicthere is a multiplexer script20:43
blogicbasically the script opens ttyX and created ptyY and ptyZ20:43
blogicand then you have console on 1 pty and gdb on the second20:43
viricblogic: can there even be a mingetty in the console line?21:22
blogici would assume so21:37
virichm great21:40
wolfspraulwpwrak: do we need the drill report from pcbnew?21:51
wolfspraulor drill map?21:51
wolfspraulFile -> Fabrication Outputs -> Drill File21:51
wpwrakyes, we need  pcbnew --drill --origin=aux22:05
wolfspraulwe don't have that now, do we?22:06
wolfspraulorigins are absolute and aux22:06
wpwrakif we didn't then my imagination must be extremely strong ;-)22:06
wpwrakit's used to provide the drill map for the pcb fab. and also for the "pretty" pcb image22:07
wpwrakbtw, most of my kicad magic is here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad22:08
wolfspraulah ok, yes22:08
wolfspraulahh, you added it :-)22:09
wpwrakoh :)22:13
wolfspraulwpwrak: do you use --list-layers or -l anywhere to specify only specific layers for the plotting?22:45
wolfspraulor you always just run the plotting and then pick the files you need?22:46
wpwraklemme see ...22:50
wpwrakyes, both22:51
wolfsprauloh :-)22:51
wpwraksee http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/makefiles/Makefile.kicad :)22:51
wpwraktarget $(GERBERS) line 9422:52
wpwrakthat may be the only place that has --list-layers. i have -l at a few other places as well22:52
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