#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2012-01-03

kristianpaulha, python i missed thatn one02:08
viricwpwrak: I've troubles with the make '-l' because I run boinc07:44
viricwolfspraul: yes, as wpwrak said, '-l'. Some like to combine -l and -j. You can also call 'nproc'...  "make -j `nproc` -l `nproc`" :)07:46
wpwrakwhat's nproc ?07:54
wpwrakand what's boinc ? :)07:54
pabs3nproc returns the number of processors/cores/something07:58
wpwrak(boinc) ah, i see. generalized seti :)08:02
viricwpwrak: run nproc08:34
viricwpwrak: well. I'm not much for searching extraterrestrials.08:35
viricI run boinc for this: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/08:35
wpwraknproc doesn't seem to exist on my ubuntu. neither on one of my older gentoo installations. ah, a more recent ubuntu has it.08:36
wpwraka very recent ubuntu :)08:37
viricyou live in the past08:37
wpwraki don't mind missing the joy of chasing after breakage after upgrades :)08:37
viricthat's because you run such fragile linux distributions08:38
wpwrakyeah. should have stayed with MCC ;-)08:39
viricthere you go :)08:39
viricnproc is in coreutils maybe already two years.08:40
viricsince 2009-11-0608:40
whitequarkwhat do you think about this CAD?08:58
wpwrakdoesn't seem to be parametric -> of limited use09:01
whitequarkit's the fork of QCad btw09:15
whitequarkwhat do you mean by "parametric"?09:16
whitequarkcan anyone suggest a good place to get 0603 resistor and capacitor sets?12:11
whitequarkerr I think I want E1412:11
wpwrakwhitequark: parametric = you define dimensions as parameters you can later change, without manually redrawing things12:52
wpwrakthis implies that the CAD also needs to record the logical structure of the construction12:52
viricoh there is a fork of qcad?12:57
viricit was already hard to keep qcad building :)12:58
rohwpwrak: well.. depends... you can still manually move stuff around.. groups and 'parts' are in there i think12:59
wpwrakroh: manually moving things around is what i don't want to have to do ;-)13:02
viricthere was a release of freecad recently13:03
wpwrakis freecad parametric ? or just scripted ? (scripted is sort of poor man's parametric)13:04
viricit was scripted, long ago13:05
wpwraki guess i'll stick with fped as my "cad" for a bit longer then :) i'm a bit puzzled why people don't make proper parametric cads. if i can do it in what is a little byblow project, it can't be *that* hard ...13:07
pabs3this thing claims to be parametric (in the title): varkon.sourceforge.net13:07
virichm I'll package those13:10
viricthis last is last updated on 2009-0213:10
wpwrakhmm, i looked at it a while ago but found it too cryptic to use. not sure if it has gotten easier13:10
wpwrakalmost three years .. then it's probably still cryptic :)13:11
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/patches/rtems/fix-ftpd-root.patch: allow ftpd to start in /ssd/ (by Xiangfu Liu) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/73b9b5013:20
jonandwhitequark: there are 0603 resistor kits on ebay for $100 or so, in decent boxes13:25
jonandyou could probably find even cheaper in plastic bags but I prefer boxes13:26
jonandwhitequark: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-0603-1-Resistor-Kit-w-Enclosure-128Vx100-12800pcs-/38013985248113:27
wpwrakboxes are good. vials are better: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/vialtray.jpg13:28
wpwrak(you can get them cheaply as bio/chem lab supplies)13:29
wpwrakfor resistors, buying some strips isn't too bad. they're still cheap. of course, typing in the order is tedious ...13:30
wpwrakone benefit of the vial solution is that you can easily rearrange your set as you add things13:31
wpwrakplus, it gives you a convenient excuse for milling the tray :) http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/vialtray-mill.jpg13:32
whitequarkjonand, wpwrak: thanks13:36
jonandwpwrak: wow!13:48
wolfspraulI'm upleveling the KiCad command line patches14:09
wolfspraulwow, A LOT of changes in the KiCad sources :-)14:09
wolfspraulcannot say that I'm complaining, it's good to see an active project...14:09
wolfspraulbut a lot of heavy lifting, moving everything around14:09
wolfspraulmore or less I have to go through each of the command line options again14:09
pabs3didn't they get merged?14:10
wolfsprauloh they were not in mergable quality14:10
wolfsprauland I dropped the ball14:10
wolfspraulit's a lot of work :-) if you want to lend a helping hand you are more than welcome14:11
wolfspraulbut let me finish this round now, at least make them work again with latest upstream first14:11
wolfspraulit will take a few days14:11
wolfspraulalso it would be nice to have a test script, so that I can just run a script which will compare results14:14
wolfspraulso many wishes, just where is Santa Claus???14:15
wpwrakwolfspraul: we could probably use the ben-wpan project for a quick test. it exercises a lot of these functions.15:34
wolfspraulyes I will write a little bash script as a starter, but nothing big15:55
wolfspraulI have to be careful that this up-leveling finishes fast15:55
viricthe cross ld tells me: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 0)18:33
viricwhat is that thing?18:33
viricany idea?18:33
Aylalooks like you're trying to cross-compile a binary that uses liblua18:39
Aylabut isn't /lib/liblua.a for your host?18:39
jow_laptophaving a /lib/liblua.a at all is very unusual18:39
jow_laptopviric: whats the context of the error?18:41
viriclinking with liblua18:41
viricAyla: that's not a full path.. I wrote the last part18:41
Aylaah ok18:41
viricit only complains on lapi.o18:42
jow_laptopviric: was the liblua.a built with -fPIC ?18:42
viricit should not matter. I build a program, not a shared lib18:42
Aylayes it does matter18:43
viricmipsel-unknown-linux-gcc -O2 -Wall -DLUA_USE_LINUX   -c -o lapi.o lapi.c18:43
viricit matters? why?18:43
viricI suspect maybe I stripped the .a18:44
viricbuild system 'strip' usually breaks host system archives18:44
Aylashared objects should always be compiled with -fPIC18:45
viricI'm not making any shared object18:45
Aylawell, all the objects inside the .a are shared objects18:45
viricthey are normal objects18:45
viric'.o' vs '.so'18:45
viricright, I stripped the .a. Solved.18:46
AylaI know .so18:46
Aylabut the objects inside a .a should be relocatable18:47
Aylahence the -fPIC18:47
viricthey are relocatable18:47
Aylaso that you can compile different binaries with one .a18:47
viricbut PIC means "relocatable at runtime"18:47
viricevery .o is relocatable18:47
viricbut not at runtime18:48
viricit's incredible how 'strip' destroys host-system objects19:47
viricthey look normal, but host-ld does not want them anymore.19:47
wpwrakcould that be one of the reasons why "strip" has options ? :)19:52
viricthe host-strip works fine.19:54
viricthe build-strip destroys it :)19:54
wpwrakdivision of labour :)19:54
viricsorry, but.. what do you use for cad then? :)20:51
viricyou wrote fped? :)20:52
wpwraki use fped wherever i can, yes20:53
wpwrakand yes, i wrote it :)20:53
wpwrake.g., this is for the labsw front plate: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/labsw/mech/front.fpd20:54
viricis it some kind of 'povray' for 2d?20:54
viricit reminds me of metapost a bit.20:55
wpwrakthis is M1 left and right wall, with new/changed holes: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/m1/case/case.fpd20:55
wpwrakyou can use the scripting language or you can use the GUI20:56
viricwhere to get fped?20:58
wpwraksee http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/fped/README20:58
wpwrakoh wait20:59
wpwrakthat's obsolete :)20:59
wpwrakthis is better: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/README20:59
wpwrakREADME updated :)21:01
viricit looks like a big effort :)21:01
wpwrakin what sense ?21:02
viricit's not a trivial program21:02
wpwrakit took more than a weekend, yes ;)21:03
viricok, I keep note ;) I won't use it now, at least21:04
viricalthough it would be nice to have it running...21:05
viricwpwrak: do you have an output example?21:05
wpwrakhow about some footprints ? http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf21:06
viricthe pdf is entirely made with fped?21:08
wpwrakthe front panel of labsw: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/labsw/tmp/front.pdf21:08
wpwrakfped generated postscript files. i they merged them into a pdf with a script21:08
wpwrak(labsw) i was too lazy to add measurements :)21:09
viricaha :)21:09
wpwrakthey're kinda unnecessary on that case anyway :)21:10
virichow do you write measurements in fped?21:10
wpwrakyou measure between the points, then set the offset (if any) of the measurement line21:11
wpwrakthe distances come from parameters. the measurements only tell you what the end result is21:12
wpwrakmeasurements have a few quirks. e.g., you can't measure between arbitrary points. but it usually lets you measure between the points you need. (there are some tricks to improve that, but they're only accessible via the scripting language)21:13
viricwpwrak: is it very different from metapost?21:26
viricI used metapost for some kind of drawing similar to what you get with fped, I think21:28
viricI used it when I needed to draw series of black/write circular sectors, to calibrate a 33rpm long play player with a fluorescent tube21:29
whitequarkthat stuff about parametric CADs reminds me of this: http://dvdp.tumblr.com/tagged/dvdp%20done21:34
viricnice link21:45
whitequarkI hope I've not killed anyone's brain here21:51
viricI can stand it :)21:51
viricI'm still most imporessed with this one http://iphoneappcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/whoa.jpg (or similar)21:54
viric(I just searched the image - I'm not giving that specific url for anything in particular)21:55
whitequarkoh yes, I know that for ages21:55
wpwrakviric: metapost seems to be more drawing-oriented. fped focuses more on objects. plus, fped is designed such that you can have a GUI with functionality (well, almost) equivalent to the scripting language21:56
whitequarkviric: works almost as well even if it's printed21:56
viricah ok. no gui for metapost. But it's quite powerful21:56
viricwhitequark: I know I know :)21:57
viricI had that in my cubicle wall for a long time :)21:57
virichttp://iphoneappcafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/sea-sick.png that's even nicer :)22:00
whitequarkviric: have you had to take it down due to coworker/boss complaints? :D22:00
viricsome complained, yes ;)22:01
wpwrakviric: why on earth ?22:05
wpwrakwhitequark: seasick is nice. didn't know that one yet22:06
wpwrakerr, viric, too :)22:06
Action: whitequark adds a point to his todo list. you know, "if it'll ever happen that I'd work in office..."22:06
wpwrak... paint all the walls like that :)22:07
whitequarkeven better22:11
whitequark"get a lot of HUGE oled panels and tile with these animated gifs"22:12
whitequarkbonus points for fading from one to another.22:12
whitequarkmadness is guaranteed.22:12
wpwrakwhen elop burns out, we'll send you to complete the work of destruction :)22:16
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