#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-12-30

rjeffriesThis cries out for a little MilkyMist love04:38
rjeffrieshttp://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/12/ibniz-hardcore-audiovisual-virtual.html04:38
kristianpaulfor 8 bits lovers 04:39
kristianpauloh my ears!04:39
rjeffriesyup04:44
rjeffriesand all who love brainfuck (at least as a style)04:45
viricsahip: Years ago I wrote something similar to taskwarrior in sh. http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/soft/bug/08:07
viricsahip: but I stopped developing it, freezing the complexity and the functionality :)08:07
viricwhile the taskwarrior people have kept working hard08:08
whitequarkiteadstudio sent me an interesting business card20:58
whitequarkhttp://twitpic.com/80kbhh20:59
wpwrakhow many MIPS ?20:59
wpwrakboring. no components20:59
whitequarkheh20:59
whitequarkon the software side21:01
whitequarkI bought an Android phone (SGS2)21:01
whitequarkthen I've looked at the amount of blobs21:01
wpwrak(-:C21:01
whitequarkWiFi, Bluetooth, GPS (lolwhat? why the hell GPS should be a blob?!), GSM of course21:01
whitequark*oh, no, Bluetooth isn't a blob21:02
whitequarkbut all others are21:02
whitequarkand of course 3D acceleration is, too21:02
wpwrakyeah, give manufacturers the choice and everything is closed. they'll never learn.21:03
whitequark... then I've looked at the amount of FOSS software for Android21:03
whitequarkit's even worse21:03
whitequarkcurrently I have a free PDF reader, and that's all21:04
whitequarkevery other application is closed21:04
whitequarkskype, clock widget, video player (ffmpeg-based), stopwatch, todo list, three games21:04
whitequarkapart from skype and games, there isn't any reason a good FOSS alternative cannot exist (I should note that Android itself supports SIP, through)21:05
whitequarkbut there are none (or they are so crappy no one would use them, ever)21:05
viricfor manufacturers is far easier to keep all closed21:06
whitequarkviric: why? just release your docs21:06
viricthat can be a source of shame. a shame more important for the company than the shame of keeping all closed21:07
whitequarkerr21:07
whitequarksorry, what?21:07
viricI've never seen an engineer proud of how the product reaches the market21:08
whitequarkI think that things like docs on 3D acceleration chip will only be understandable by a small circle of engineers/developers21:09
whitequarknot much wider than the circle they're still reaching under NDAs and stuff21:09
wpwrakwhitequark: that's what they want you to believe ;-)21:11
wpwrakwhitequark: i'm sure they said the same thing about operating system kernels some 20 years ago :)21:11
viricI'm with wpwrak 21:12
wpwrakviric: dunno. i experience a certain amount of pride and satisfaction with my open source work. maybe the shame is just a self-fulfilling prophecy ?21:12
whitequarkI seriously doubt there are any odds of that doc popping out at Reddit with a shameful commentary21:12
viricAnd there are engineers in the closed companies ready to write articles about how bad you designed your product21:12
whitequarkwpwrak: I'd say that operating system kernels are indeed understandable only by a small circle of developers, even now21:12
wpwrakand these professional bashers regularly get torn apart limb by limb in public discussions ;-)21:13
viricwpwrak: I don't mean proud making open source. I mean making devices or software on a company keeping all closed, and pushing you to deliver the next product next week, whatever the state of development of it21:13
wpwrakwhitequark: only that this "small circle" has grown by several orders of magnitude in the last years, thanks to open source :)21:13
whitequarkwpwrak: sure21:14
whitequarkI still don't get the "shame" part21:14
whitequarkseriously21:14
whitequarkthat sounds stupid and childish21:14
viricwpwrak: you don't have wolfspraul telling you: we have to release it! we have to release it! Whatever you have, next week it goes to production. We already spreaded the marketing.21:14
wpwrakviric: yeah, but as things get more open, the engineer can also fight back better :)21:14
wpwrakmaybe that's why his betters like to keep him in the darkness :)21:15
viricSure21:15
viricImagine that the internal documentation has the same prose quality as a 10 year old child, among gramatical, ortographical and whatever errors you may imagine21:17
viricThe drawings, looking like Micros~1 paint 1-minute mouse drawn schemes21:18
viricif not scanned from pencil21:18
viricand that brings the stamp of the company.21:18
whitequarkoh.21:18
whitequarkthat's a... completely different reason that the ones I've heard earlier.21:19
viricit's an additional effort for the company to make internal documentation 'releasable', keeping the 'level of quality' usually related to that company21:19
viricNot to mention engineering errors... source code with trivial errors... parts outsourced payed very cheap, that does not matter if they fail from time to time, etc.21:19
viriclack of testing, etc.21:20
viricOnce all the source is hidden, little may be visible for the final user21:20
lars_yea, actually producing the documentation is usualy more complicated than releasing it21:20
whitequarkhm21:20
viricI worked for a company where we used some GPL pieces21:20
lars_and then there are all kinds of legal issues21:20
viricand we had to publish the modifications21:20
viricIt was a big headache to do that...21:21
viricAnd we were told to use as less GPL as possible, just for the additional effort.21:21
viricyes, the legal part was the most complicated21:21
viric(and out of the engineers decisions. There was a group apart that had to be contacted for that.21:21
viric)21:21
viricWe had a great respect for GPL21:21
viricBUT21:21
viricthe rule was to avoid the headache21:21
viricand 'not violating the GPL' was the easiest part.21:22
viriclars_: did you really mean "producing the documentation is more complicated than releasing it"?21:23
wolfspraulwhitequark: let's not waste time complaining about bad software and devices, let's just make better ones21:25
lars_viric: what i meant is that documentation doesn't always exist so you can release it21:27
lars_or at least proper documentation21:27
wolfsprauldocumentation is best open from day 1 together with and same as the sources21:27
DocScrutinizerhah, Friday night philosophical talk :-D21:28
wolfspraulyeah :-)21:28
wolfspraulhow's your job going? full power into 2012? :-)21:28
DocScrutinizeryeah21:28
DocScrutinizerthough last 2 days I gone mental about my state as employee21:28
DocScrutinizerdoubt I can stand it for a long time21:29
whitequarkwhy?21:29
wolfspraulcome on, that starts too fast!21:29
lars_DocScrutinizer: welcome to the club 21:29
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: you are *sentenced* to only think like that after a minimum of 2 years :-)21:29
DocScrutinizerincome: 20% of what I'd get for same job on a freelancer basis. Obligations: twice as hard for me to conform with them21:30
whitequarkthen why the hell are you doing that? :)21:30
virica girl21:30
DocScrutinizerviric: indeed, correct21:31
viric:)21:31
DocScrutinizerthough not exactly the way you probably assume21:31
viricha, so at the end, you are also human?21:31
whitequarkwhat.21:32
DocScrutinizershe forwarded the job offer to me21:32
DocScrutinizera friend of her brother in law is working at ST-E as well, and it happened they sat together in that pub...21:33
DocScrutinizershe caled me and passed the phone to that other guy working for same company I do now21:35
viricdid you work as a freelancer 'telecommuting'?21:35
DocScrutinizerusually not21:35
viric(I imagine you earned a lot as a freelancer, and you earn as a usual employee now)21:36
DocScrutinizeror maybe 30..60% max21:36
viricok21:36
DocScrutinizerI earned usual as freelancer, and I earn a bit sub par now21:37
viricIn what country?21:37
DocScrutinizerthe mayour difference though is: I got 25 days holiday now :-(21:37
DocScrutinizermajor21:37
viricI only needed the country for some stereotypes :)21:38
Action: whitequark just said "screw holidays" to his employer and begins to work on Jan 3rd21:38
DocScrutinizerand I'm not that fit in sustaining my 130% power day for day. Helath issues even21:38
viricaha21:39
viricwell, more work days and more work hours always take down efficiency21:39
DocScrutinizerhah, Jan 2nd, and thanks to the 4 days off between xmess and now I have to work 11h/day al the January21:39
DocScrutinizerto compensate21:39
viricYou have to accept living a less efficient life :)21:40
DocScrutinizerthat'S something I impossibly can accept21:40
viric(if you subscribe being one more gear in the clockwork that gives money to company owners)21:41
DocScrutinizerI'm just hoping the stress due to learning all day will decay a bit from now on21:41
viricIt's like tobacoo. It makes you cough at the beginning, then you get used, then you can't stop smoking, and then it kills you.21:42
DocScrutinizerbut right ATM I think odds are I won't do this job in 6 months anymore21:42
DocScrutinizerviric: indeed21:42
viricBefore it kills you, you vote for fascists to get into government21:42
viric:)21:42
Action: DocScrutinizer extinguishes the cig and sips on his coffee21:43
kristianpaulindeed i start to said that after two years :(21:44
Action: kristianpaul sigh working remotelly today21:44
DocScrutinizerI'd love to work remotely - I hate those mass offices21:45
kristianpaulme too, but i was supposed not work _today_ :(21:45
kristianpaulthen emergency call :/21:45
kristianpaulmass and cold offices ;)21:46
viricah, emergencies are always more interesting that normal days21:46
DocScrutinizera bit odd, but hey, I'd be supposed to work today as well, I just take debit workhours I'll compensate next month21:46
viricThe portuguese government may accept half an hour more of work day, to fight the crisis invented by money owners21:47
viricall sounds like the catholic church: your salvation comes through your (not my) suffering21:48
kristianpaulindeed !21:48
viricAnd in Europe we have the Germans telling us lessons21:49
viricThe experts in believing "we are the best" and making the others believe "Germans are the best"21:49
viricthat old story.21:49
viricThe biases of all popular media around are totally insulting, towards more fasciscm and more suffering, as our salvation.21:52
viricwell you know the story :)21:53
viricwhitequark: I liked your report on Android, btw. I did not imagine things that worse.21:54
viricthat bad.21:54
wpwraki wonder if cyganomod improves the situation a little21:58
DocScrutinizerhere are other countries in EU than exactly Germany that I'd like to give a good kick into the guts for their government BS. E:G: Hungary21:59
viricI've heard very very bad news about the current hungarian government21:59
DocScrutinizerreinventing absolutism21:59
viricaha22:00
viricwith a paint cover of democracy22:00
DocScrutinizerHAH22:00
DocScrutinizerthin paint22:00
viricyes22:00
DocScrutinizertoday the last free radio station closes down22:00
viricsad22:01
DocScrutinizermeanwhile they're actually worse than Russia or Turkey22:01
viricI only read that about hungary out of common media22:01
virictwo days ago.22:01
viricBefore that - absolute silence.22:01
viric(common media keeps on with the silence)22:01
DocScrutinizerand those turds are a member of EU22:02
viricthe EU does not get into politics22:02
viricthey are there for the money.22:02
DocScrutinizerand may do this, without getting a big red stop sign by all others22:02
viricI don't think any ruling person in the EU cares about that22:03
DocScrutinizerI guess all other governments think "let's see how it goes with them, we'd like to do same thing maybe 2 years later if they succeed"22:03
viricThey are only going to look at the accounting sheets presented by the hungarian government, and that's lal22:04
viricall22:04
wpwrakwhy wait a whole 2 years ?22:04
DocScrutinizerit takes 2 years to properly manipulate the votes22:05
viricHa22:05
viricin your case, at least they need to manipulate the votes.22:05
DocScrutinizerindeed22:05
viriclike russia.22:05
viricbut in Spain, noone doubts the votes are all correctly counted22:05
viricneither left or right.22:05
viric(although absolutism is not in such advanced state as in magyar)22:07
virichungary22:07
DocScrutinizerhttp://opensource.srlabs.de/projects/catcher/wiki :-D22:24
kristianpaulah yeah22:24
kristianpauli wonder why there is no green or such in this table :)22:26
DocScrutinizergreen is when no criterion applies22:35
DocScrutinizeror rather: no flag is "green"22:36
kristianpaulsurelly :)23:05
viricthis osmocom battle is really amazing23:07
viricI hope someone writes a book about it23:07
viricIt deserves lots of notoriety23:08
DocScrutinizeryeah, Harald is amazing23:25
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