#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-12-20

akiwiguy|dv6wolfspraul: i have enough money to get my NanoNote now, i think :D01:30
kristianpaulwhy haven ordered then !!01:32
kristianpaulhi akiwiguy|dv6 01:32
akiwiguy|dv6hello kristianpaul 01:32
akiwiguy|dv6because i'm not quite sure about shipping to NZ01:32
kristianpauli think wolfspraul is in different time zone those days so well i think you better write a mail to him if is very urgent01:32
kristianpaulI see01:32
kristianpaulNew Zealand01:33
kristianpaul* Mar 2010: Sharism shipment of 1 NanoNote from Hong Kong to New Zealand, FedEx Economy, S&H cost USD 19.27, delivered in 6 days after pickup. * Jun 2010: Sharism shipment of 1 NanoNote from Hong Kong to New Zealand, FedEx Priority, S&H cost USD 27.60, delivered 3½ days after pickup. 01:33
akiwiguy|dv6oo that's not too bad then01:33
kristianpaulakiwiguy|dv6: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Shipping_Notes01:34
Action: akiwiguy|dv6 looks01:34
akiwiguy|dv6oh cool01:34
whitequarkan entirely offtopic question here02:24
whitequark(for those of you who're native speakers of English) does "Roomie" sound like a (nick)name for you? or is it clear that the word is derivative?02:25
akiwiguy|dv6sounds fine to me02:30
akiwiguy|dv6what timezone is wolfspraul in?02:43
whitequarkakiwiguy|dv6: thanks02:52
whitequarkakiwiguy|dv6: (wolfspraul) afaik it's either germany or china. probably the former now, but I'm not sure02:53
akiwiguy|dv6one of my friends in germany is still awake02:53
whitequarkhis rdns (.t-dialin.net) means it's probably germany02:54
akiwiguy|dv6though he is a uni student and tends to never sleep very much ever02:55
whitequarktime to learn kicad.04:27
whitequark(or maybe geda?..)04:30
wpwrak(roomie) you'd normally indicate whose roommate this is, which would resolve any ambiguity04:36
whitequarkwpwrak: I'm translating a webcomic, and it is used like a name04:40
whitequarkbut there's no equivalent grammatical/lexical construct in Russian04:40
whitequarki.e. you cannot say "roomie" where you'd normally say a name so that it won't sound weird04:40
whitequarkeven worse, there is no equivalent to affectionate diminutive form of "roommate" at all04:41
whitequarkat least anything that won't sound archaic04:41
wpwrakah, the joy of translating idiomatic uses from one language to another :)04:42
whitequarkthe worst of all, it's the protagonist :D04:43
whitequark*the protagonist's name04:43
whitequarkhttp://gogetaroomie.chloe-art.com/, through I doubt you'll be interested. I'm doing that mostly because of the challenge of translation04:44
whitequarkmore on-topic04:48
whitequarkI'm currently looking at gEDA04:48
whitequarkparticularly gschem04:48
whitequarklooks like it can do anything I ever wanted Eagle to do04:49
whitequarkand it has a slightly less braindead approach to components04:49
whitequarki.e. separate symbol and packages04:49
whitequarkand, finally, a selector where you can find anything in less than a hour04:49
whitequarkwhat do you think about it? is gschem/gpcb or kicad a way to go?04:51
wpwrakmany years ago, i used gEDA a bit and found its schematics capture inconvenient and the layout tool usable but not really scalable. then kicad came along and i swiched. didn't look back.05:01
rjeffriesJust saw this, and pimped it on my G+ account [ronkjeffries]05:05
rjeffriesswitchsmart@freenode  and http://www.switchsmart.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page05:06
Action: GordonFreeman wondering why there isn't any non crap pcb editor for linux 05:06
roheagle and kicad.05:09
wpwrakGordonFreeman: kicad's pcbnew is pretty decent. just lacks a push router.05:09
GordonFreemaneagle is opensource now?05:09
rohgeda has nice ideas but its like having duplo when you know lego technic05:10
rohGordonFreeman: nope. but its avail for linux05:10
GordonFreemanaha i see05:10
GordonFreemantried kicad like 1 years ago, and  it was crap then05:10
rohv6 switched the fileformat to xml to allow 3rd party tools access stuff easier05:11
rohon eagle.. but its still a closed commercial app05:11
GordonFreemanand there is that "PCB" named thing, but still unusable05:11
GordonFreemanprobably coder electronic engineers don't use linux, and don't write pcb editors05:12
wpwrakwhile some are still complaining, others have been making working circuits for years with it. ymmv ;-)05:13
rjeffrieswpwrak doesn't us "crap" tools. He makes 'em dance. the limbo.05:13
GordonFreemani'd never start using some junk05:14
rohwpwrak: ack. we use eagle atm but also with a full license file (ccc has some 30+ seats)05:14
GordonFreemanbtw x-fig was almost usable as a schematic designer05:14
rohi'd like using kicad but it needs to be much more 'release-y' that it would work for colaborating in my circles.. everybody has some 5.3x eagle...05:15
wpwrakroh: i wouldn't touch non-free tools, though :) we did quite a few enhancements in kicad05:15
GordonFreemanit only has minor lolnesses, like i had to hack the scroll directions05:15
GordonFreemanand it would need additional logic05:15
rohwpwrak: sure.. no questions... my issue is that i cannot define what other people use. and since i do not want to build some git-revision of kicad for osx and win32....05:15
GordonFreemanwpwrak<< are you kicad dev?05:16
rohGordonFreeman: on opensource every real user is a dev ;)05:16
GordonFreemanno, a user is a user05:16
wpwrakGordonFreeman: i've contributed some small things over the years. e.g., the "magnetic" pads and traces05:17
rohGordonFreeman: you have to read the last sentence in a 'in soviet russia'-voice *veg*05:17
GordonFreemanroh<< a user does not even have to know anything about programming05:17
rohheh. you are so naive.. somehow i envy that *ducks*05:18
rohbut in the end that would explain a lot of badly designed hw... people on the CAE who do not code also.05:21
GordonFreemani believe most pcb software are crap because programmers don't design pcbs05:22
rohhm. any ideas about a good gif editor for linux? for doing animated icons etc... gimp works but somehow its not 'it' for such stuff05:22
GordonFreemaneven if they are good programmers05:22
rohnot pixel editors. converters i have plenty05:23
rohi need easier copying/stiching over multiple frames.. duplicating layers and pushing pixels manually isnt it... i am missing animation features like moving masks of objects for 'n' frames etc05:24
GordonFreemanimagemagick can convert05:24
rohits still no editor05:24
GordonFreemansure it does not protect against that05:25
GordonFreeman061324] <maguoji> the file Makefile is created from Makefile.in?05:26
GordonFreeman[061350] <GordonFreeman> ./configure05:26
GordonFreeman[061409] <GordonFreeman> like any normal linux software05:26
GordonFreeman[061415] <maguoji> but the file Makefile.in is very simple05:26
pabs3roh: maybe http://www.pencil-animation.org/ ?05:26
GordonFreemanwhy do i bother;/05:26
rohpabs3: hm.. worth a try05:34
rohwill test synfig ktoon and pencil05:34
pabs3synfig is vector stuff05:36
rohhm.. ktoon and pencil isnt it05:59
rohfeels weird and incomplete05:59
rohsynfigstudio seems nice, but needs more time to understand06:15
rohi guess i could just dissect all my animated item elements into atomics and then make them layers which only get transformed from frame to frame in synfig06:16
pabs3what are you trying to create?06:16
rohanimated icons. googling for 'sprite editor' doesnt help much06:19
pabs3looked at ASEPRITE? http://www.aseprite.org06:28
rohah. no.. will try *compile*06:33
pabs3first result on Google :)06:37
pabs3the wikipedia page mentions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrafX206:40
rohasesprite seems nice, but it feels like booting an amiga06:59
rohwill play with it again tomorrow/later... somehow it is 8am again *sigh*07:02
valhallaroh: grafx2 is excellent for old style pixel art, and looks even more like an old amiga program07:27
valhallaroh: iirc aseprite runs on the nanonote, however07:29
pabs3hm, there is a Debian RFP for aseprite07:32
wolfspraulakiwiguy|dv6: yes, in Germany07:33
akiwiguy|dv6wolfspraul: hello!07:33
wolfspraulhi :-)07:33
akiwiguy|dv6i'm ready to buy my NanoNote :D07:34
wolfspraulexcellent, thanks!07:34
wolfspraulas usual that makes me both happy to have found another community member, and nervous that the Ben will meet your expectations :-)07:34
wolfspraulI know too many details about the manufacturing process, so the joy is always a bit dampened...07:35
wolfspraulbetter to buy a 'perfect' product from the store, right? ;-)07:35
akiwiguy|dv6Community and open sourcery > anything you can get in a retail store.07:35
akiwiguyUgh, my internet died again...07:45
ezdagorI'm having a problem with the NN's screen turning completely white after a few moments. Is this an FB driver issue? Do I need to specify a specific driver in order to fix this? Or... ?22:32
whitequarkezdagor: from my experience with jz47xx cpus, I may deduce that in your case LCD controller clock is being turned off somewhy22:44
whitequarkgiven that even on processor halt/kernel panic it is left running, I think there's a hardware problem22:45
whitequarki.e. a manual assertion of RESET will give such a result, but that's not your case22:45
whitequarkas RESET will also set the backlight control pin to default (hi-z) state22:46
whitequarkan undervolage maybe?22:46
whitequarkezdagor: it also may be a wrong firmware, if you've changed it22:51
whitequarki.e. a kernel with wrong LCD parameters compiled in22:51
ezdagorYes. I have.22:51
ezdagorWhat are the "right" parameters?22:52
whitequarkezdagor: just use official (I think it should be somewhere in qi-hardware.com wiki) kernel tree22:52
ezdagorI'm using a fork (?) of the Openwrt source tree.22:53
whitequarkyou can use a serial console to debug. afaik there are testpoints on NN board, and you can make kernel emit messages to a serial console with a parameter22:53
ezdagorI am able to supress the "white screen" on the console, but not in Gmenu2x.22:54
whitequarkthere's a kernel config variable in "Kernel hacking" section which allows you to bypass bootloader's kernel options and hardcode your own (or just append them)22:54
ezdagorHold on.22:54
whitequarkwhat do you do to suppress it?22:55
ezdagorI'm booting the NN. A few moments..22:55
whitequarkah, wait22:55
whitequarkso it does work in the console?22:55
whitequarkthen it's not the LCD parameters22:56
ezdagorsetterm -powersave off -blank 022:57
whitequarkthere may also be another cause. framebuffer blanking does also disable the LCDC clock (at least it did so when I last looked into it). If you don't have a proper backlight device in your kernel, it will remain on and you'll get the white screen effect22:57
ezdagorIt premanently left a "ghost" on the screen. :(22:58
whitequarkoh, that may happen for some LCDs22:58
whitequarkNN's must be of a type for which it matters22:58
whitequarkin my device it was absolutely harmless22:58
ezdagorSo, which LCD driver to use?22:59
ezdagorI remember it being in the kernel a few years ago... I"d recognize it if I saw it, but in recent kernels, I don't think it's there..23:00
whitequarkyour driver is fine. I think you've forgot to configure something sysfs-related23:00
whitequarkis there anything in /sys/class/graphics/fb0 ?23:00
ezdagorfb0 and fbcon23:01
whitequark(Wrong LCD timings mean no picture, a least that was true for the devices I worked with. You have a picture, hence the timings are right.)23:01
whitequarktry "echo 0 >/sys/class/graphics/fb0/blank" with gmenu2x running23:01
whitequark(lcd driver) the fb driver itself is in drivers/video/jz4740_fb.c, and it's configured in arch/mips/jz4740/board-qi_lb60.c23:04
ezdagorGee thanks. You've just bricked it. There's now a permanent white screen. Even after reboot, and removal of battery.23:05
ezdagorGood thing I have a backup.23:06
whitequarkgah. sorry.23:06
whitequarkthat's strange, through.23:06
whitequarkwhat kernel tree do you use?23:07
ezdagor2.3.34? I can't remember actually.23:07
whitequarkno, which one _exactly_23:07
ezdagorI know. I can't recall.23:07
whitequarki.e. I'd like to see the sources23:07
whitequarkbecause there a lot of jz47xx kernel trees around, and they all differ a bit23:07
ezdagorIt was an OpenWRT source tree. I remember that much.23:07
whitequarkyou may have selected an unfortunately too wrong one23:08
whitequarkwolfspraul, wpwrak: any ideas of what's wrong?23:08
ezdagorOk. It boots now.23:11
wolfspraulmaybe the battery is completely drained?23:17
wolfspraulwhen the battery runs down, at some point the screen will just turn white and poof the device goes down :-)23:17
whitequarkyeah, I've suggested that...23:18
wolfspraulwe don't have any proper emergency shutdown or so right now, I believe23:18
wolfspraulmaybe we could detect that condition at the last moment and turn off the device23:18
whitequarkthere's a battery ADC afaik23:18
whitequarkbut no daemon to check it, I guess23:18
wpwrakezdagor: it can take a moment for the device to drain completely so that you'll get a clean reset. i recommend to leave it completely unpowered for about 20 seconds.23:26
wpwrakezdagor: i once measured the exact time (varies a bit from device to device). lemme see if i can find it ...23:30
ezdagorYeah. It boots fine now.23:30
wpwrakgrmbl. can't find it :-(23:34
wpwrakah, here: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007432.html23:36
wpwrakthat time may come from the RTC capacitor, affecting the system in unexpected ways :)23:40
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