#qi-hardware IRC log for Sunday, 2011-12-18

kristianpaulRegarding Software Freedom: the caveat regarding this CPU is that it requires ARM-proprietary libraries for the 3D Graphics (as does virtually every single embedded SoC on the planet with the almost exclusive sole exception of the Ingenic jz476001:34
kristianpaulhe :)01:34
pabs3kristianpaul: context? 02:15
wpwrakpabs3: i'm wondering if the answer to that is a string or a boolean :)02:41
DocScrutinizerhmm, GordonFreeman ? we got a freemangordon in #maemo-ssu :-D03:34
GordonFreemanwell i reserve the right to choose another random nick at any random time ;>03:35
GordonFreemanhttp://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/151/20111218043745.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/20111218043755.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/20111218043841.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/20111218044031q.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/20111218043933.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/20111218044058.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/20111218044341.jpg/ http://imagesh04:13
GordonFreemanack.us/photo/my-images/811/20111218044511.jpg/ 04:13
GordonFreemanpics of my hacked dvd drive04:13
GordonFreemanso, i have removed the unnecessary stuff from the mainboard with a screwdriver, then cut some track on pcb, and reconnected the motor controller ic with cat-5e wires, and added a potentiometer for analog input control for the ic, and it works off a single 12V supply because i added a 7805 stab ic to generate 5V for it04:20
wpwrakGordonFreeman: if you can also figure out how to move the laser, and how to control it, then you'd have a nice photoplotter06:07
wpwrakwe one discussed this as an approach for direct writing of chip structures. preferably with a blue ray, though, for the color of the laser (closer to the peak sensitivity of the photo emulsion)06:08
wpwrakthe idea being that you have two dvd/blue ray devices in an X/Y arrangement, one moving the workpiece/table, the other moving the laser06:10
GordonFreemani don't do lol06:15
GordonFreemani can do photolithography btw06:16
wpwrak(lol) mmh ?06:16
GordonFreemanwell, make a film, and shine lighht through it.06:17
wpwrakby the way, this has a serious background. have you seen this ? http://colossus.cs.rpi.edu/~azonenberg/papers/litho1.pdf06:18
GordonFreemanactually i'm building 3 axis cnc milling machine06:18
wpwrakwith a direct laser writer, such a thing would be a lot easier06:18
GordonFreemani don't think so06:18
GordonFreemanalso it would take much more     time06:19
wpwrakof course. the greater the hack, the more time :-)06:20
GordonFreeman:) i like eficient hacks06:20
wpwrakit would still be very efficient. just a lot more magnificient ;-)06:21
GordonFreemanok i have seen blu-ray laser videos on youtube06:21
GordonFreemanmust be fun shooting through 10 dvd cases with it06:21
wpwrak;-)06:22
GordonFreemanbut i see no real use of it yet.... too little power. i cannot cut steel with it06:22
GordonFreemannor pcbbbs06:22
GordonFreemanits only eye hazard06:23
akiwiguySeveral of them concentrated on one spot could do some damage to a pcb methinks06:24
GordonFreemanno.06:25
GordonFreemanhow would you combine the laser beams into one line ? that is preferrably the possible thinnest line06:26
GordonFreemanits silly to just aim $1000+ lasers onto an approximate spot06:27
GordonFreemanbtw you need insane amount of powwer to vaporize the copper with any laser that will be $10k$+06:28
wpwrakyou couldn't cut pcbs ... but you could make your own chips :)06:48
kristianpaulpabs3: yes (boolen), sorry  source here http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/13:46
kristianpaulwpwrak: quite boolean indeed ;)13:46
kristianpaulJust cath my atention they keep comparing with ingenic products in other pages...13:46
viricwpwrak: do you still use kicad?14:23
wpwrakviric: yes, of course. what else is there ? :)14:37
viricI'm updating the package in my distro14:37
viricto the sources of july 201114:37
viricdo you use the latest bazaar checkout?14:37
wpwrakno, we're at an older version. maybe a year old. we (qi-hw) have a bunch of patches that are essential for automating the workflow, and afaik they haven't been forward-ported yet14:38
viricok14:39
kristianpaulargh, any idea how to hold well a wire, seems silicone is good in long term solution just look this gap between blue and purple cable http://kristianpaul.org/~paul/tmp/one_broke.jpg14:41
kristianpauls/is/is not14:43
virichm I've a resistor brown/black/gold/gold14:44
viricwhat is that?14:44
viric1ohm?14:45
kristianpaulyes14:46
kristianpaulwell, almost still +/- 5% of tolerance14:47
viricaha14:47
wpwrakkristianpaul: (pic) cephalopod son of The Blob ?14:54
kristianpaulwpwrak: horrible yes, but it was holding clock from sige receiver to milkymsit :,)14:56
blogicwpwrak: ping16:16
blogicwpwrak: i am playing with kicad atm16:16
wpwrak*GONG*16:16
blogici just opened a .lib file and saw its ascii16:16
blogicdid you create you footprints with kicad ?16:16
blogici am thinking that vim might be easier :D16:16
wpwrakno. for footprints, i use fped16:16
blogicfped ?16:17
wpwrakhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/16:17
blogichomebrew ?16:17
wpwrakquick intro is here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/fped/gui.html16:17
wpwrakyup. all mine :)16:17
blogicok ...16:18
blogici see you had the same thought as me then16:18
blogici was sitiing here thinking that the editor in kicad is weird16:19
blogic:D16:19
wpwrakthe footprint editor is a joke. and not a good one.16:19
blogic.... debian wants to install 167MB of dependenices for gtk2 :D16:19
blogicok16:19
blogici thouhgt it was just me16:19
wpwrakhere are some example of footprints we did with fped: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf16:20
blogicaweome16:20
blogici need to make some weird sot89 packages and lqfp16:20
blogic*lqfp12816:20
wpwraksome of them are unfinished, e.g., have silk screen on pads and such16:21
blogicok16:21
blogicwell16:21
blogicthe first bcps will be done on a cnc machine16:21
blogicso silkscreen is not needed just now16:21
blogicbut once we produce i guess ......16:21
wpwrakhere's a (small) set of footprints that should be good for production. some were actually used in production: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/kicad-libs/source/tree/master/modules16:23
blogichttp://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kicad/file_formats16:23
blogiccool16:23
wpwrakwe have a few more tested ones, scattered over various projects16:23
blogic;)16:25
virichm16:54
viricdo thermistors have colour codes?16:54
kristianpaulnope that i know, usually a datasheet16:57
virichm mine has a black stripe, red stripe, and gold end16:59
kristianpaulmay be is a thermocouple17:01
virichm17:04
viricI don't think so17:05
viricmh I've a SMD resistor that says 5603. Do you interpret 560K?17:09
wpwrakpossibly. 4 digits is somewhat rare, particular in the kind of circuit you're looking at. i'd measure.17:11
viricbut I'd have to desolder it17:11
viricor calculate the big mesh of resistors :)17:12
GordonFreemanmatrix multiply it17:13
viric?17:13
GordonFreemanyou know, linear equations17:13
viricyes17:14
wpwrakjust measure it. if it's > 100 kOhm, it's probably really ~560k. if it's more like 50 Ohm, then it's 56 plus a weird extra digit17:15
GordonFreeman4 digit is not rare btw, i use them often, they have 1% or more precision in general17:15
viricIt has some 10K resistors in parallel17:15
viricand measuring it, it says ~10K17:16
wpwrakGordonFreeman: yes, but that seems to be the kind of circuit where they design with +/- 50% ;-)17:16
wpwrakGordonFreeman: of course, they may still have simply find it cheaper to use a 560k 1% than a 560k 5%17:16
wpwraks/find/found/17:16
GordonFreemani never bought resistors >10% precision in smd17:17
viricit's the circuit of a heater, that simply has the opam working somewhat as a trigger schmith, for an opto-triac to switch the heater on and off.17:17
wpwraki said "design" not "implement" ;-)17:17
GordonFreemani see, then why are you concerned about values if it needs +-50% precision?:17:18
viricwell, the circuit fails :)17:18
viricI wonder what piece to blame.17:18
wpwrak10k is a tricky result ;)17:19
viric:)17:19
GordonFreemani can tell you a quickhack function for resistor and capacitor networks, it's called the "Replus" operator, R_e=1/((1/R1)+(1/R2))17:20
viric:)17:21
viricamazing hack17:22
GordonFreemanyou can extend it to any number of resistors ;>17:23
blogicwpwrak: kicad is not bad18:09
blogicwpwrak: just tsrated making some simple layouts for testing18:09
blogicsmall atmega32u2 based baord18:09
blogicnot as comfortable as eagle18:09
blogicbut i used to think that eagle was obscure18:09
blogic:)18:09
wpwrakwhat do you think is missing ?18:10
wpwraki think any eda system is obscure. goes with the territory :)18:10
blogicnothing missing18:11
blogicjust the flow is very different to others i used18:11
wpwrakah yes18:11
blogicthe whole sch->netist->pcb18:11
blogicand the component not being  linked to a footprint but the netlist bit doing the mapping18:11
wpwrakhehe :)18:11
wpwrakthere are some quirks in selections, too18:12
GordonFreemani am writing a pcb editor software for linux so i'd be interested in your problem18:12
Action: GordonFreeman is Dominating18:13
Action: GordonFreeman is Godlike18:13
blogicGordonFreeman: link ?18:16
blogicwpwrak: yes i found soem quirks already18:16
blogici did however just open a bottle of red wine for inspirational purposes18:16
blogic:)18:16
GordonFreemani'm writing the primitives rendering an core functions currently...18:16
blogicok18:17
wpwrakit'll all make sense when you've finished that bottle :)18:18
blogici know18:19
GordonFreemanwpwrak<< but if you have problems in general i may never let happen them in my software18:19
GordonFreemani design pcb-s too btw, so i'd like to make it comfortable 18:20
GordonFreemani'm not telling secret if i say it will have fractal components18:20
wpwrakdoes the chip industry know about that yet ? :)18:21
GordonFreemanno <;18:21
GordonFreemanthey'll have a concurrency18:22
GordonFreemanhttp://matrix.z-labor.com/tmp/C/sdltext_fps_d_asdf.c18:27
GordonFreemansome SDL example for linux18:27
GordonFreemanuses HRT18:27
blogicGordonFreeman: i see you dont like indenting :D18:38
GordonFreemanworking on that ;>>18:40
GordonFreemanbut i came from assembly18:40
blogichehe18:40
GordonFreemani use geany btw18:41
GordonFreemanrecently changed the tab to spaces so it will be the same in mc f4 now18:41
blogici use vi18:41
blogic:D18:41
GordonFreemani have it because it's not user friendly18:42
GordonFreeman*hate18:42
blogicvi ?18:42
GordonFreemanyes18:42
blogichehe18:42
GordonFreeman:quit to quit ?18:42
GordonFreemanlold18:42
GordonFreemando not want18:42
blogici find a mouse to be the most user unfriendly tool18:43
blogicapart from the fact that it is slow and kills productivity18:43
GordonFreemansometimes18:43
blogicbut then its everyones own personal preference i guess18:43
GordonFreemanbut if you have to draw a pcb then it is more user-friendly than no mouse18:43
GordonFreemanfeel free to give ideas for alternative input methods18:43
blogichehe18:43
GordonFreemanblogic<< btw, come to #theblackmatrix and kick logic18:44
GordonFreemanyou deserve that nick ;>>>18:44
lars_vim is power-user-friendly18:53
GordonFreemanpower users like comfort if they do actual work i guess18:55
viricwpwrak: so, I tweaked the circuit so it works now. I put a 6K8 resistor in parallel with another to make the opam schmitt trigger switch at a more normal temperature. :)18:57
blogiclars_: +118:57
viricbut I'm quite rusted at all this18:57
GordonFreemanblogic<< f9 compile, f5 run, syntax highlight, automatic tooltips/code-completion rulz18:58
blogicGordonFreeman: no whitespace error highlighting :)19:00
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