#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-11-25

kristianpaulantgreen: hello, 01:16
kristianpaulantgreen: i was wondering (just for intelectual curiosity) where i can find the bsp for moxie in newlib01:17
kristianpauli just noticed you have lots of libraries in src :-)01:17
kristianpaulxiangfu: seems you are near to have the first nanonote build host for debian :-)01:20
wolfspraulxiangfu: can the Ben detect whether the USB cable is inserted?01:31
wolfsprauland/or whether it is charging, I guess (I think it always tries to draw power from USB when connected)01:32
wolfspraulthe reason I am asking is because I find the screen blanking so annoying, so I thought when the Ben is connected to USB, we could disable screen blanking entirely. I think as long as it's connected the screen should stay on.01:33
rohthat should be possible, one way or another01:34
kristianpaulhow i do recover "stashed" changes so i can commit?..01:37
kristianpauloh, dear trying to remenber what did one month ago, and found some verilog bubbles wpwrak may find interesting :-)01:38
pabs3kristianpaul: git stash pop/apply01:42
kristianpaulpabs3: thanks !, but..01:44
kristianpaulwhat is actually pop?01:44
kristianpaulbranch?01:44
pabs3applys the top patch in your stash, then removes it from the stash01:44
kristianpaulah i undertand is like a cp /tmp/garbage /repo01:44
pabs3if you run gitk --all you'll see that the stash is just another branch01:45
kristianpaulk01:50
kristianpaulyeah a picture of this is very apreaciated01:50
xiangfuwolfspraul, yes. the /sys/devices/platform/gpio-charger.0/power_supply/USB/online will indicate that if USB cable is inserted.02:07
kristianpauloh :)02:10
wolfspraulxiangfu: nice02:14
wolfspraulis it possible to disable screen blanking when the USB cable is connected?02:15
xiangfugmen2x: is kind of easy. we can add some code to gmenu2x detect the usb cable then disable/enable the screen blanking.02:16
xiangfutty0: it needs a daemon app I guess. :) 02:16
xiangfugmenu2x and tty0/1/2/3 use different blanking method. 02:17
xiangfu:)02:17
wolfspraulok02:17
wolfspraulI was trying the 11-13 image a bit and I'm super excited. great work!02:17
wolfspraulhow do you like it?02:17
xiangfuI think it getting better. 02:18
xiangfu:-)02:18
wolfspraulyes, definitely02:18
xiangfuI start to exciting when the 08-27 come out. :)02:18
xiangfuthis 11-13 is better then 08-27.02:19
wolfspraulis the nanonote support in u-boot upstream now so that we can remove the special u-boot from openwrt?02:19
wolfspraulI'm a little worried that >80% of the 512mb image are full though (in 11-13)02:19
xiangfuwhen 11-13 come out. all I want is copy more media file to my nanonote. picture/video/music.02:19
wolfspraulI think we already had to remove some sw from the image in the past, and we will run into more trouble there02:20
wolfspraulwe need the full 2gb I think02:20
wolfspraulin some way02:20
xiangfuwolfspraul, u-boot. yes. needs some work. since the openwrt uboot-xburst support 3 device, I will try to merge them to new u-boot. or create another uboot-nanonote maybe. not sure.02:21
xiangfuwolfspraul, yes. we removed gcc stuff. 02:22
wolfspraulyeah02:23
wolfspraulbad02:23
wolfspraul:-)02:23
wolfspraulI wanted to use irssi, but not there02:23
wolfspraulhow do I disable screen blanking in tty0?02:25
wolfspraulanother thing that confuses me is our long list of terminal selections02:26
wolfspraulwhen I'm in a terminal, is there an easy way to iterate over console fonts?02:27
wolfspraulI think there should be some hotkey that just flips through all fonts and redraws the screen02:28
xiangfu(tty0) use setterm  -blank 002:28
wolfspraulperfect, thanks!02:30
xiangfuwolfspraul, (fonts) yes. since we have triggerhappy. it not hard to write a script file do that. 02:30
xiangfulet me try to do that now. :)02:30
wolfspraulopkg list shows 6365 packages!?02:32
wolfspraulare we really building over 6000 packages?02:32
wolfspraul495 installed02:33
wolfspraul(I installed a few manually, maybe it was around 490 in the 11-13 image)02:33
xiangfu49302:33
xiangfunanonote have totally 2900+ packages in package repo.02:34
wolfsprauldo we have a nanonote-docs or so where we can start to write up tutorial/faq/tips/etc ?02:35
wolfspraulI see we have man, no info02:36
xiangfudon't have a nanonote-docs for now. that is the plan. haven't start. :)02:36
wolfspraulok sure, great02:36
wolfspraulmaybe we just use html and one of the many text browsers we have02:36
wolfspraulwow, netsurf is so cool!02:37
wolfspraul:-)02:37
wolfspraulI think I have a new use case for my Ben - I leave it connected to my notebook, and move apps to the Ben02:38
wolfspraulI probably start with chat & email02:38
wolfspraulmy emails will get shorter :-)02:38
rejonxiangfu, can you come to that meeting tomorrow at 3 at fisheye?03:01
rejonwithout you, going to be like me and wolfgang talking in hand gestures03:01
wolfspraulI tried listener, and then mplayer to play the .wav, but it couldn't play because of missing codec...03:15
xiangfuyes. 03:16
xiangfu'aplay' works. 03:17
xiangfustill needs some work on mplayer :)03:17
wolfspraulI think now that the base system seems more or less under control (bootloader, kernel, rootfs/console/gui), we have chance to improve big time on the following 3 major features:03:17
wolfspraul1) backup03:17
wolfspraul2) encrypt03:17
wolfspraul3) update03:17
wolfspraulI keep thinking how to achieve it, and the most promising idea I can come up with is to look for existing small utilities/tools, even command line, to help with those.03:18
wolfspraulfor update, can we rely on opkg to just keep updating packages?03:18
wolfspraulnot sure whether we can update the bootloader or kernel that way, or how this interacts with major openwrt releases03:18
xiangfurejon, oh03:21
xiangfuupdate. yes. the only one we should case is kernel. the openwrt kernel package is just a empty package only have some version file. 03:23
xiangfuwe should add some post-install. flash the uImage to kernel partition. 03:24
xiangfu(updating packages). yes. we should try. 03:24
xiangfuif the uClibc and gcc update that maybe more trouble? 03:25
wolfspraulprobably03:26
wolfspraullike you said we need to experiment carefully03:26
wolfsprauland in parallel continue the full image releases and reflash_ben.sh we use today03:26
xiangfuyes.03:26
wolfspraulhow do most openwrt users update their devices? (mostly routers I guess)03:28
wolfspraulin my own openwrt usage, it was typically some serious focused effort to get it to a router, say a few hours or days full-time, and then I leave that router alone until the hardware fails x years later :-)03:28
wolfspraulno security updates, nothing03:28
wolfspraulis that the typical openwrt usage model? I hope not :-)03:28
xiangfuopenwrt update is like 'upload a image file to router' since mostly router only have 4M or 8M flash. 03:37
xiangfuI think this image include kernel and rootfs I guess. (forget the detail)03:37
wolfspraulI'm wondering how people continue after that03:39
wolfspraullike I said - I just leave it like that until the hardware fails03:39
wolfspraulnot the most secure approach03:39
wolfspraulI am sure a lot of people at least will install security updates incrementally, via opkg (?)03:39
wolfspraulhow about upgrading to the next major openwrt version? maybe everybody just reflashes everything?03:40
wolfspraulwe probably should not try something that is not in line with the typical update model of most openwrt users03:40
wolfspraulbasically we can just do what is easy to do with openwrt03:41
jow_laptopwolfspraul: there is sysupgrade nowadays which simplifies reflashing03:43
jow_laptopand configs remained largely compatible during the last few years03:43
wolfspraulsysupgrade03:44
wolfspraulsounds good03:44
wolfspraulthanks!03:44
wolfspraulwill check out03:44
wolfsprauljow_laptop: how about backup or encryption - any tools you are aware of?03:44
jow_laptopsome people use loop-aes afair03:44
jow_laptopas for backup, don't know, what do oyu envision? something networked or more an archivier?03:45
wolfspraulsomething that protects me in case of nanonote loss or total failure03:45
wolfsprauldrop in water, stolen, etc.03:45
wolfspraulso I want to have a backup on my notebook, then restore from that backup03:46
jow_laptopprovide an httpd server with a simple backup tar.gz download?03:46
jow_laptopthats what we do for the webui03:46
jow_laptopthere is "opkg list-changed-conffiles" which is useful to find user edited package configs03:46
jow_laptopplus home03:47
wolfspraulsince we talk about openwrt - how about updates through opkg?03:47
wolfspraulis that possible/supported?03:48
jow_laptoptechnically doable03:48
wolfsprauleven across major releases?03:48
wolfspraulor totally unsupported?03:48
jow_laptopthere are two big issues of one doesn't apply for you03:48
jow_laptopone problem is that kernel updates through opkg are not pssoible03:48
jow_laptopthe other is space on the squash+jffs2 combo03:48
jow_laptopoh and of curse the uclibc binary compat03:48
jow_laptopbut that depends on how you develop03:49
jow_laptopI mena whether you choose to update it or not03:49
wolfspraulwhy are kernel updates through opkg not possible?03:50
jow_laptopbecause the kernel image is usaully in a dedicated flash partition03:50
jow_laptopwithout any fs03:50
jow_laptopwhich various from model to model03:50
jow_laptop*varies03:50
jow_laptopso there is no generic mechanism03:50
wolfspraulok makes sense03:51
wolfspraulbut we could have a dedicated package or post-install script03:51
jow_laptopif there is a way to write a new kernel from within a running openwrt then this is solvable as well03:51
jow_laptopone can encode the process in a postinstall script then03:51
jow_laptopso the bits and pieces for upgrade are all there03:52
wolfspraulhow do most openwrt users upgrade?03:52
jow_laptopsysupgrade03:52
jow_laptopwhich is basically reflash + config restore03:52
jow_laptopit does not retain installed packages though03:53
jow_laptopmost targets are still in the 4MB..8MB flash memory range03:54
jow_laptopthere simply is no space for packaging overhead03:54
wolfspraulok03:55
Action: kristianpaul havent update his routers since a year..03:55
wolfspraulno regular/automatic security updates?03:55
wolfspraulkristianpaul: hey :-) sounds like my model :-)03:56
wolfspraulI get openwrt to setup the way I want to, then leave it untouched until hardware failure :-)03:56
kristianpaulwell not that i wait for that, i regulary load new image as a RC is avaliable03:57
jow_laptopthere are package upgrades, but binary releases are not openwrts strong point and we're still figuring it out03:57
jow_laptoporganization-wise03:57
wolfspraulok good03:57
wolfspraulso for now the Ben follows the common/regular openwrt model03:57
wolfspraulthat's good03:57
jow_laptopthat is basically up to the people building openwrt based distros :)03:57
wolfspraulhow is usage of openwrt proper or distros developing actually?03:58
wolfspraulmostly routers?03:58
kristianpaulabout backup, at lest consider that most apps will use root home folder, including at least for me some games and nanonote03:58
wolfspraulthe number of supported models increasing/decreasing?03:58
wolfspraulI don't follow routers at all I have to admit...03:58
jow_laptopwolfspraul: it is becoming more models03:59
kristianpauli have loose my maps and game leves after every relfash, but i'm really lazy to backup it up :)03:59
kristianpaulfor the rest of precious content i just use a memcard03:59
kristianpaulwolfspraul: you dont need follow, use they work well you ignore :)03:59
wolfspraulkristianpaul: yes, I don't think you are alone. So we need to improve that and make those 3 things dead simple: backup, encryption, update03:59
jow_laptopwolfspraul: you should build a backup facilityi nto reflahs-ben.sh04:00
jow_laptopmake it connect the ben and download a tar.gz with changed configs plus user root04:00
jow_laptopthen reflash04:00
jow_laptopthen connect the ben again and restore it04:00
wolfspraulgood idea04:00
wolfsprauldo you have stats on the number of openwrt users?04:01
jow_laptopno04:01
jow_laptopI suppose we could evaluate the http server logs04:01
jow_laptopbut that is skewed as dd-wrt uses openwrt packages too04:01
kristianpaulor include rootkits in next release ;-)04:01
kristianpaulopenwrt is getting really nice those days, the other days i was consider even use like for a swtich OS04:02
jow_laptophttp://pastebin.com/CVZQSKQp04:03
jow_laptopthis code finds all user changed package configs plus all paths matched by shell globs in /etc/sysupgrade.conf04:03
jow_laptopon my home router this currently looks like this: http://pastebin.com/kfqpQ2tJ04:05
jow_laptopan important thing w.r.t. opkg based upgrades is that package maintainers must be careful04:06
jow_laptopand one needs to establish versioned depends04:07
wolfspraulmaybe the idea to enhance reflash_ben.sh is good04:07
wolfspraulas a first small practical step04:07
jow_laptopyes04:07
kristianpaulposible depency issues?04:07
jow_laptopright now one can only depend on "libfoo", not on "libfoo >= v1.0"04:07
kristianpaulat lest that nannonote can upgrade it self (like M1 :D) 04:07
wolfspraulbut there will be details, for example reflash_ben.sh normally starts right now when the Ben is in a special usb boot mode04:08
jow_laptopthis leads to issues like: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=14893304:08
jow_laptopyeah, I think its will be tricky to establish some kind of communication with the ben04:08
jow_laptopyou need to establish some ip connectivity over udp I suppose04:09
jow_laptoperm *over usb04:09
jow_laptopso that in the end the reflash ben.sh is like itunes to the iphone04:09
wolfspraulwe have a lot of options I think, but need to find the smallest step that delivers results04:09
wolfsprauloh my god, that sounds scary :-)04:10
jow_laptopyeah I know04:10
wolfspraulI hope people are not inspired by *that* analogy :-)04:10
jow_laptopi just mean the aspect of bundling backups, reflashes, recovery aetc. into one app04:10
wolfspraulyou could also say "maybe the Ben will be as easy to use as AOL one day"04:10
jow_laptopwe also experiment with web based image builders04:11
wolfspraulgo on04:12
jow_laptophttp://openwrt.linux-appliance.net/ib/wizard.cgi?target=xburst04:12
jow_laptopthis way one can assemble a desired package collection online, provide additional files to embed and let it build on the server04:13
wolfspraulnice04:13
jow_laptopthe final image is tailored to the custom needs then04:13
jow_laptopin the upload step one could upload the backup archive for example04:13
wolfspraulbut it probably contains patent encumbered software04:14
jow_laptopwell that entriely depends on what components are provided in the repo04:14
jow_laptopthe link I sent is based on http://downloads.openwrt.org/backfire/10.03.1-rc6/xburst/OpenWrt-ImageBuilder-xburst-for-Linux-i686.tar.bz2 04:15
wolfspraulyeah it's nice04:15
wolfspraulcan it build bootable images for the nanonote now?04:16
wolfspraulI'm wondering whether we have more things left to upstream still, or all there already...04:16
jow_laptoptbh I never tried :)04:16
jow_laptopit will probably boot and drop to a busybox prompt04:16
jow_laptopno gmenu etc.04:16
wolfspraulthat would be great04:19
wolfsprauljow_laptop: if you feel there is anything we can do better for openwrt upstream, please speak up04:19
jow_laptopcan't think of anything04:19
jow_laptopsome things will never be applicable mainline04:19
wolfspraulxiangfu worked hard to get nanonote support into u-boot upstream, we can probably cleanup a bit on the openwrt side now04:19
jow_laptopand the other stuff slowly trickles in04:20
jow_laptoplike package updates04:20
wolfsprauloh sure, that's fine04:20
wolfspraulyes04:20
wolfspraulI also hope we get a bigger push behind OpenWrt on Milkymist One at some point04:20
wolfspraulLars has been starting and made good progress, but very few people use that right now (understandably since there are serious limitations right now)04:21
wolfsprauljow_laptop: have you heard of Milkymist? :-) (you probably did, just checking...)04:22
jow_laptopyes, I follow the lists and the channel here04:22
wolfspraulto improve Linux and OpenWrt on it a lot of pieces are missing, such as mmu, lots of work in the Linux kernel, C++ compiler or even more recent gcc compiler support, dynamic linking missing as well I think04:23
wolfspraullet's say 1 year :-)04:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1/patches: added soc11_2.diff posted by Sebastien on Nov 23 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/94fd59908:22
rejon_xiangfu, if you want to come tomorrow great11:09
rejon_but now found others who can help bridge the lang. divide :)11:09
rejon_wolfspraul and I will meet at fisheye cafe and talk shop11:09
rejon_hopefully can look at the image stuff on m1 and more11:10
rejon_http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Content_Registries11:13
xiangfurejon_, if the JJ want setup the M1 tomorrow. I think I will come to fisheye tomorrow. :)11:15
rejon_ok cool, its up to you11:16
rejon_i know its your weekend11:16
rejon_so don't stress out11:16
xiangfurejon_, I will update the JJ's m1 to latest stable release. will not include image support. 11:16
rejon_is it still too risky?11:16
rejon_;)11:16
rejon_i'll see wolfgang there at 2 pm, others will arrive at 3 pm11:17
rejon_like the crowd11:17
xiangfurejon_, hmm... no. just don't want break normal webupdate. I think ender user follow the stable release is better. 11:17
rejon_totally agree11:18
rejon_who is JJ?11:18
xiangfurejon_, sorry. Jing jing.11:18
rejon_aha11:18
rejon_cool11:18
rejon_is she going to come there?11:18
xiangfuI am C developer. :D11:18
xiangfurejon_, no. I don't think so. but she said will wire the money today, and want setup M1 this weekend. 11:19
rejon_oh great11:19
Last message repeated 1 time(s).11:19
xiangfurejon_, oh. she didn't CC to you. 11:19
rejon_its ok11:19
rejon_i'm used to that11:19
rejon_chinese people don't like to do :CC11:19
xiangfurejon_, I will forward this email to you.11:19
rejon_ok cool11:19
rejon_we have a thxgiving party that evening11:20
rejon_so she must want to try it there11:20
rejon_gbraad, we having a meetup at 3 pm11:20
rejon_sharism11:20
rejon_at fisheye cafe11:20
rejon_we will flesh out openwrt + html5 more11:20
rejon_you should come!11:20
rejon_bring pasi11:20
xiangfurejon_, hmm... I think a people working on openwrt router in Beijing, do you want more people :)11:21
rejon_sure11:22
xiangfus/I think/I know11:22
rejon_will be like an openwrt flash mob11:22
xiangfuok. he buy a Nanonote. then switch to create his own openwrt router. :)11:22
rejon_want to flesh out how we can get test suite for openwrt + netsurf to get minimal html5 compliance11:22
rejon_yah, i need to flash mine11:22
xiangfurejon_, CC you another email. :)12:02
rejon_great12:04
xiangfurejon_, updated to latest version and packaged well12:21
kristianpaulmorning12:46
antoniodariushxiangfu, hi, the new toolchain now has the wpan support for the atben12:47
wolfspraulgood morning!12:47
antoniodariushdo I still need zigbee?12:48
lekernelwhat is that LED power supply?13:14
kristianpaulthere are some logs about it, you may found interesting uses a CPLD13:20
wpwraklooks like a hideously complex way of powering a LED :)13:22
kristianpaulfancy indeed, but still interesting13:24
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2011-10-15.log.html#t23:1213:25
kristianpaulhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2011-11-15.log.html#t08:0313:25
wpwraki kinda wonder what it does with all those coils. does it connect to mains ? 13:27
kristianpauli wonder how long batteries hold13:28
rohum.. why the fsck. does it need an cpld to drive a led?13:30
kristianpauli remenber, the person behind is involved the IC design13:31
lekernelthat's just a lamp?13:36
roh 13:38
rohseems so. a 70W led driver13:38
xiangfuantoniodariush, the new release support atBen.13:56
xiangfuantoniodariush, I think it still not support zigbee. there are some code in kernel but not enable.13:57
antoniodariushyes, I compile all the necessary packages on the toolchain successfully 13:57
xiangfuantoniodariush, (zigbee) depends what you want. the new release already support TCP under atBen.13:57
antoniodariushso it should work with just the packages from the toolchain ?13:58
xiangfuantoniodariush, you have both atBen and atUsb? or two nanonote and two atBen?13:58
antoniodariushtwo nanonotes and two atBen yes13:59
xiangfuantoniodariush, sorry. what packages you mean? the package you compiled?13:59
xiangfuantoniodariush, cool. great. 13:59
antoniodariushi mean in the toolchain we need to select all the required drivers and stuff 14:00
xiangfuantoniodariush, you mean SDK. yes. we needs select those tools: http://pastebin.com/Lg3sgCbS14:01
antoniodariushlet me check my toolchain 14:02
wolfspraulyes, led driver/power supply14:02
wolfspraulthere's not much else to the project right now than us helping Deng a little with review and feedback14:02
wolfspraulin fact I'm not sure whether/how Deng will continue, that's up to him14:03
xiangfuantoniodariush, sorry. I am a little lose. about toolchain: what do you mean? the SDK under here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/? or you compile the whole openwrt by yourself.14:03
antoniodariushthe second 14:04
xiangfuantoniodariush, ok. got it. 14:05
antoniodariushxiangfu, I had the atbens working but following werner's instructions http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/install/INSTALL-Ben14:06
antoniodariushbut now that everything is in the toolchain i'm looking forward to simplify few things :) 14:06
wolfspraulantoniodariush: if we can help you simplify more, on the software side, please let us know14:07
wolfspraulwe'd love to do that14:07
antoniodariushsure14:07
antoniodariushanyway I have these selected already http://pastebin.com/Lg3sgCbS14:08
wolfspraulwpwrak: kristianpaul lekernel roh : since you guys asked about the led supply, a quick background14:10
wolfspraulbasically it's a chinese friend who quit his job and is working on this board14:11
wolfspraulI don't fully understand the background of his work or business idea14:11
wolfspraulbut he understands the gpl, is very open minded about 'open', etc.14:11
wolfspraulso I offered help in hosting his files, helping a bit with review, cleanup, process, translation to English, etc.14:11
wpwrakthat's all very nice. but what on earth is the board doing ? ;-))14:11
wolfspraulbut he has to drive it forward, it's his board and project. if he stops, the project stops and the files stay there for whatever future benefit (or none)14:12
wolfspraulthere's a video, no?14:12
xiangfuantoniodariush, if you use the latest openwrt-xborst.git commit. it already included all patch about atBen. 14:12
wolfspraulit's a led power supply14:12
wolfspraulI cannot qualify this project14:12
xiangfuantoniodariush, yes. after you select those packages. you have everything you need :)14:12
wolfspraulI only provide the project server, translation, some review, process, etc.14:12
wolfspraulfor example it might be a good boom test case for me :-) (though I doubt I get to it)14:12
wpwraki wonder why the board is so complex. is it driven from mains ?14:12
wolfspraulyes I think so14:13
wolfspraulI know very little, that's one of the goals of pulling it out into the open14:13
wolfspraulwe have to see where Deng takes this14:13
antoniodariushxiangfu, excellent, thanks.14:15
xiangfuantoniodariush, keep up update about your two nanonotes. cool. what are you plan on this ? (just want know more about atBen :)14:16
xiangfuI mean keep us(people here) update. :)14:16
antoniodariushI (actually we) always keep you people updated :) 14:21
antoniodariushwolfspraul, did you watch the video ?14:22
wolfspraulyes14:22
wolfspraula little confusing :-)14:22
wolfspraulbut it looks cool - I think about all the Bens I sold!14:22
antoniodariushyes we have plenty 14:26
kristianpaulwolfspraul: mechanical side for this led lamp still WIP?14:33
wolfspraulhe14:35
wolfsprauldream-in-progress14:35
wolfspraulthe led array would be a standard one, this project is just the power supply14:35
kristianpaulok :)14:35
wolfsprauland no mechanical at all, the idea is to maybe look for automotive customers (deng's idea, not mine)14:35
kristianpaulhum i see14:36
wolfspraulled lamps are shooting up everywhere now, I really cannot tell much about the differences etc.14:36
wolfspraulbut I read for example that the new Boeing 787 has a spectactular LED lighting system, guess I have to fly with one to see it for myself :-)14:36
kristianpaulhhaha14:36
rohhmmm. http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/70w-led-driver.html14:37
xiangfuantoniodariush, oh. where is the video url?14:38
antoniodariushhttp://theclashingrocks.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tcr:pics_video14:39
antgreenkristianpaul: newlib bsp for moxie?  it depends what you mean by that.  libgloss (in the same src repo as newlib) hooks into the gdb simulator and qemu port for IO, etc.14:39
rohuhm. seems there is a chip for that14:39
rohwww.micrel.com/_PDF/mic3230.pdf14:40
antgreenkristianpaul: for the gdb simulator, the simulator intercepts software interrupts (swi instruction) to do I/O.14:40
kristianpaulantgreen: sorry, i just wanted to know how you ported implemented stdio for your soc14:40
kristianpaulhum14:40
antgreenfor qemu, I model memory mapped IO devices14:40
antgreenlibgloss is built for both versions, and you specify one or another with different linker scripts.14:41
kristianpaulah :), well i need learn more about qemu later 14:41
antgreenis there a milkymist qemu port?14:42
kristianpaulyes14:42
kristianpauli thin is upstream now but be aware of http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Using_QEMU14:43
kristianpaulmust go, back later, thanks for explanation antgreen :)14:44
antgreennp14:44
xiangfu:)14:49
antoniodariush:-) 14:49
jivs:-)14:51
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: ping14:52
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: ping14:52
wolfspraulyes14:52
wpwrakpong14:57
kristianpaulhello Artyom 20:06
kristianpaulbtw i'm wokring to make my local changes to upstream20:09
kristianpaullater i will bug you about osgps, wich i notiched the isr is not fully implemented, just polling isnt?20:09
kristianpaulhum, good point20:13
Artyomyeah, I used polling. (I had some troubles with ISR for GPIO in ARM7 and didn't want to spent time on them)20:14
kristianpaulDo you think full osgs can run on that arm7 mcu?20:16
kristianpaulI tried it on my 333Mhz nanonote and it felt not very happy... ah but of course correaltors were gp2021 in software not namuru20:17
kristianpaulmay be algortym to get fix point is not very cpu ungry, i havent check it yet..20:18
kristianpaulbtw Artyom , had you seen this http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm ?20:19
Artyomarm7 should work fine because there is gpl-gps project which runs on ARM7 (about 30 or 50 MHz)20:20
kristianpaulah yes20:20
Artyomand gpl-gps is based on osgps20:20
ArtyomAnd position solution is not cpu hungry. Usualy position is calculated every second and it's not so often as tracking loops updating20:23
ArtyomI've seen this project (Homemade GPS Receiver) but I don't like it. The source code is poor commented and not very clear (like in MM ;) )20:27
kristianpaulyes i agree20:32
kristianpaulwhat call me atention is the RF DIY receiver part20:32
Artyom(Sorry, what is DIY stand for?)20:34
kristianpauldo it your self20:34
kristianpaulArtyom: so, you make flterm work your board also?20:36
ArtyomNot yet, I had no enough time to experiment with flterm. And there is one potential problem that must be solved before.20:37
ArtyomAnd I also have to prepare some demo-program. The stadard are not for my board20:43
kristianpaulwich kind of demo progam you mean? for osgps mod?20:47
Artyomno, I mean that for testing flterm I could use a program in /software/demo directory. But I can't do it because my board differes from M1. So I have to write my own, or simplify existing ;)20:50
kristianpaulah yes of course that demo.. (wich i never ran before... and i should :-))20:55
Artyom:))) (It seems that I do many stupid things that you didn't even try to ;) )20:56
kristianpaulhe no just i met milkymist when demo was not needed, i mean flickernoise wich is the VJ* apps was ready20:57
kristianpaulso i dint get interested,but seems it cames with some debug facilites i should try someday20:57
kristianpaulready written for rtems20:58
Artyombtw did you test RTEMS on your board? Did you write any additional (pgrogram/task/thread?)?20:59
ArtyomI think I've read that M1 uses RTEMS as a base?21:00
kristianpaulyeah well rtems is the better supporte OS in terms of working drivers21:00
kristianpauland yes i had tried rtems before21:00
kristianpauli just moved to baremetal meanwhile i get sure all works fine (as i got some hangs in the pst)21:01
ArtyomWhat drivers do you mean?21:01
kristianpaulethernet (best tcp/ip stack than bios too), memory card (read only support), yaffs for NOR wich is a big plus as the only non-volatile file system with write support21:02
kristianpauland framebuffer21:02
kristianpaulthere is also a fpu but i dont know how usefull could be for us21:03
kristianpaulabout programs.. well i tried a bit very basic sstuff, i dont get in to task/threads21:03
Artyomfpu can be usefull for tracking loops and for position calculation (What math functions does it support?)21:04
kristianpauli need to learn more about that, also rtems have a messae passing system21:04
kristianpaulsorry is pfpu21:05
kristianpauldatasheet here http://milkymist.org/socdoc/pfpu.pdf21:05
Artyomyeah, this part I've already seen...21:05
kristianpaulsomething usefull in there?21:05
kristianpaulcos sin.... well i dont know all the math in position calculation, i guess is a kind of big matrix? :-)21:06
ArtyomNot sure... But I think that new operations can added. It's open source :)21:07
kristianpaul:-)21:07
kristianpaulfor tracking loops how usefull can be?21:09
kristianpauli was actually thinking in a dedicated lm32 core for that maye be to much ?21:10
Artyommay be atan calculation... But many thing must be checked...21:10
Artyomdedicated lm32 core only for tracking? ;) Sounds unusual but interesting ;)21:11
kristianpaullol21:12
kristianpaulwell as i said i was checking some gps baseband chips other days21:12
kristianpaulmost of then include an arm procesor and a minimal soc with the correlators and other stuff21:12
kristianpaulbut anyway just an idea21:12
Artyomwhat chips did you check?21:13
ArtyomI remember nj1006 (or similar) It contains leon+peripheral+correlator21:13
kristianpauloh leon :)21:13
kristianpauljust a  ATR0625P from atmel21:14
Artyomand gp4021 (or similar): arm+correlator21:14
ArtyomDo you leon? Did you test it?21:14
kristianpaulafaik no21:14
kristianpauli just know it was in space because have a fault tolerance system21:15
ArtyomI think Carlos know more about it... ;)21:16
kristianpaulyes he was doing benchmarking lm32 vs leon :D21:16
kristianpaulwith linux21:16
ArtyomHave you seen any results?21:17
kristianpaulnope, actually long time since i dont see carlos here21:17
kristianpauli think was univesity asigment, dunno if got in a hurry and... 21:18
Artyombtw is it possible to have couple lm32 cores in one FPGA? Did you try to do it?21:22
kristianpaulgood questions, lekernel said yes is likely posible21:23
Artyomand how to transmit data between them?21:24
Artyomis it possible to have two cores on one wb-bus?21:24
kristianpaulyes21:24
kristianpaulseveral masters and use DMA21:24
kristianpauli guess21:25
kristianpaul(dma part)21:25
kristianpaulor implement a wishbone switch (milkymist used it before)21:25
ArtyomHave you ever seen FFT implementation for FPGA (as a separate core)?21:26
kristianpaulurghh no :)21:26
kristianpaulFFT is very ungry in reources i think21:27
Artyommay be, I didn't think about it ;)21:27
kristianpauland most sutiable for software based processing (Ghz..)? (correct me in that one)21:28
kristianpaulat least in some books about GPS software aprouch imedialy skip serial processing and jump to fft21:28
kristianpaulof course they dont use a fpga likes us :)21:28
ArtyomFFT for software? I think it can be parallelized and that's a good task for FPGA.21:29
kristianpaulhum.. perhaps i need read more21:29
ArtyomIn books they don't use serial approach because it's toooooo slow for software. 21:29
kristianpaul:D21:30
ArtyomBut at the same time it's very simple for hardware :)21:30
kristianpaulbut fft is required for acquisition , tracking loops and ...21:30
kristianpaulyeah21:30
Artyomfft is for acquisition only (as I understand)21:30
kristianpaulfft also needs too much routing, oh  hell21:32
kristianpaulback in a minute out for a snack21:33
ArtyomKristianpaul, it's time to leave for me...21:33
Artyomtoo late...21:34
kristianpaulhave nice sleep then21:34
Artyomthanks! bye! :)21:35
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