#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-11-23

wolfspraulkyak: twitter parentheses still there02:17
wolfsprauleven more clutter. now we get a "Tweet created" message. Can we remove it?02:21
kyaknow it's probably too less information06:36
kyakwolfspraul: what do you think? Could you mention @qihardware, too?06:37
wolfspraulkyak: don't understand06:51
wolfspraulcan we not have the "Tweet created" line at all?06:52
wolfspraulI mean, we know already because we just had the tweet command in the chat...06:52
kyakthen what's left?06:52
wolfspraulwhen someone tweets here, why have another confirmation from the bot?06:52
kyakthen how do you know if the command actually succedded?06:52
wolfspraulsince the tweet command itself is already in the channel06:52
kyakit could be a netspliy06:53
wolfspraultrue we don't know, but what can go wrong?06:53
kyakor a loss of connection06:53
kyakwho know06:53
wolfspraulpeople can just check twitter if they really want to confirm06:53
kyaki can't be sure that my tweet was actually created, and i need to go to web, and then it doesn't make sense at all :)06:53
kyakthat's what i'm saying :)06:53
kyakneed to open twitter anyway06:54
kyakthere must be some confirmation06:54
kyakthat's a basic concept of irc commands06:54
wolfspraulwell then :-)06:54
wolfspraulis it hard to remove? or easy?06:54
kyakit's super easy06:55
wolfspraulI still think that second line is just noise06:55
wolfspraul100% noise06:55
kyakthe second?06:55
wolfspraulyes, this one: <@qi-bot>  Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware06:55
kyaki'd sa, this is the first line :)06:55
wolfspraulno, the first thing I see is this: < kyak> !tweet a humble test 306:56
wolfsprauland that's enough, I can assume that it went through06:56
kyakyou can't be sure i actually received your last message, can you?06:56
kyakno say something and imaging i just disconnected my cable; or you were disconnected06:57
kyakdo you like it? :)06:57
wolfspraulok if you like that second confirmation, so be it06:57
wolfspraulI think the tweet command itself is enough06:58
kyakthis is the first confirmation, why the second??06:58
wolfspraulthat is a confirmation as well, or if there really is a network failure one can track down and double-check in twitter itself06:58
wolfspraulbut you know this stuff better, maybe you are right and many others would feel like you07:00
wolfspraulleave it so that you think it's good07:00
kyakok.. let's see how mentions work07:16
xiangfuis the kernel.org build kernel for nanonote(jz4740) ?07:28
xiangfuhow can we make that happen. 07:35
kyaki think it has the nanonote_config07:36
Action: xiangfu try to compile xburst-tools under ben nanonote. try to fix : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=61361008:56
wolfspraulxiangfu: cool! :-)09:08
dvdkxiangfu: about debiang bug 613610: I have a loongson MIPS server running 24/7 here, installed with debian squeeze.  if you need login access, just mail me your public ssh key.09:54
xiangfudvdk, great. 09:55
dvdkit's on dyndns, ip-address changing once per day, but as long as you login w/ 'screen' that shouldn't be a problem09:56
xiangfudvdk, let's see how debian under nanonote works. :) if not works well , I will try to do that in your MIPS server. :)10:08
kyakdvdk: cool, where did you get the machine?10:48
dvdkkyak: it's a fuloong 6004 bought from hackable devices10:54
dvdk(fuloong 6014?)10:54
dvdksee here http://mosquito.dyndns.tv/opentrac/free10:54
kyakvery nice :) but there is only one Ethernet port?10:57
dvdkkyak: that's not a problem.  extensively using vlans10:57
dvdk(one vlan fed from a openwrt router, directly bridging the wlan into it)10:58
kyakdid you disassemble it?10:59
dvdkonly to mak ethe fotos/check the cooler and add a larger hard-disk.  11:00
dvdkit's assembled now, serving the web-page you saw11:00
kyakand this is my server :)11:01
kyakslightly less cool11:01
dvdknot bad.  does it sit on the public internet?11:02
kyakthough much more powerful11:02
kyakyes, it's on the internet; but not so public11:02
kyaki'm talking now from this server11:03
kyakit mostly serves my screen session :)11:03
dvdkBTW, my emacs, running the irc-chat, is also running on my fuloong box (ssh -X)11:04
kyakwhat are other distros supporting mips besides debian? i think it's arch, gentoo..?11:05
dvdkbut debian is all one needs, no?11:05
kyaki was talking about fully-fledged distros, of course :)11:06
kyaki've migrated to arch linux on my desktop 11:07
kyakfrom mandriva/mageia11:07
kyakdue to their rolling releases11:07
dvdkmy desktop is ubuntu, but latest release is pretty broken.  thinking about migrating back to debian (testing is also quasi rolling release)11:07
kyaki have a dream of never reinstalling OS on my PC again :)11:07
kyakarch has also got testing, but i'm not so brave as to try it11:08
kyakit's bleeding edge enough11:08
wpwrakwolfspraul: by the way, for the quarterly news, if it risks getting just too large, maybe make several volumes and post them 2-3 days apart ?11:11
wolfspraularch seems nice, how about Fedora? I'm thinking about trying Fedora again (was a RedHat user back when it was 6.x)11:14
wpwrak(tweet creation) in fact, if it truncates, it should probably not create the tweet, but rather wait for a new command that already includes the trimming11:18
wolfspraulyes I agree. in fact that's a real use-case for feedback, an error message.11:20
wolfspraulit should not auto-truncate, it should reject saying how long the maximum is11:20
kyaklet me see if there is such a setting11:22
kyakbtw, you can explicitely split the message by inserting \n (literally)11:23
wpwrakwolfspraul: not only say how long but show where. else, you get ten attempts trying to figure out where exactly this limit ends up :)11:26
wpwrakwysiwyg is good in this case :)11:27
kyakthere is a "splitlong" script for irssi :)11:28
kyakit can split input messages in strings of arbitrary length and combine them with defined symbols11:28
wpwrakkyak: you mean specifically for the irc-twitter-relay ?11:42
kyakno, it does it globally :)11:44
kyakok, so i can send the "String is too long to post"11:44
kyakis it sufficient?11:44
kyaki can show where the limit ends up11:45
wpwrakcanit indicate where it would have to be cut ? like the >|< ?11:45
kyakbut it means posting the string to the channel again :)11:45
wpwrakjust make it a single message. or send it directly to the originator :)11:48
wpwrakbut better keep the response in the channel. that way, others can understand when someone keeps on re-posting a message11:54
kristianpaulxiangfu: afaik i have mipsel machine... but still interested i get xburst tools to run on it, what and how i should compile?11:59
kristianpaulah yes fuloong is cool too :-)12:01
xiangfukristianpaul, apply this patch to xburst-tools. and compile as usual. 12:03
xiangfukristianpaul, or just apt-get -b source xburst-tools12:03
kristianpaulfor the record this is  my server http://pcengines.ch/alix3d3.htm and you also can listen a stream live sound from my city here http://locus.creacast.com:9001/buga_valle.ogg12:04
xiangfukristianpaul, there is a dog. :)12:09
xiangfukristianpaul, two dogs. :)12:10
wolfspraulI think no problem in showing the text a second time - this is an error case12:12
kyakhow does it look?12:13
xiangfukyak, great. 12:15
jason_hey guys13:07
xiangfudebuild needs real15m12.473s under nanonote.13:08
wpwrakkyak: so where exactly would you split ? :) after "whatev" ?13:10
wolfsprauljason_: hi13:11
xiangfukristianpaul, http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/13:20
xiangfu!twtte compile xburst-tools under nanonote: http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/13:20
jason_I think the new jz4755 kernel from dingoo will be out soon13:21
xiangfukristianpaul, check out http://downloads.openmobilefree.net/NanoNote/xburst-tools/mipsel/. you can try in your mipsel machine. :)13:23
wolfspraulxiangfu: I keep thinking what we can do with the 1.5 gb data partition on the Ben13:27
xiangfumost people here don't want that. 13:28
wolfspraulon one side the 512 mb is pretty full and there are probably other neat things we could bundle13:28
wolfsprauldon't want what?13:28
wolfspraullast time we changed the partition from 256mb to 512mb it took us a year or so until we had the last cases of people running into problems :-)13:28
wolfspraulour boot time got significantly faster, maybe good to have the remaining 1.5gb on/mounted by default13:29
xiangfujust ignore my message. (mis understand)13:29
jason_wolfspraul, ive been spending my days at what you would call a sweatshop, except its november13:29
wolfsprauland even if we plan to do some backup or encrypted or usb-mass-storage stuff, maybe all of this will be handled best with a loop-mounted file on the underlying ubifs?13:30
wolfspraulso a lot of things to consider13:30
wolfspraulbut somehow I feel we should address this otherwise by default we only use 25% of the local storage capacity on the Ben13:31
wolfspraulbut what's the best way - not sure13:31
wolfspraulhow long does ubifs mounting of the remaining 1.5gb take now?13:31
xiangfuwolfspraul, openwrt will do that background. will not change boot time.13:32
xiangfuwolfspraul, let me check the mounting time now.13:32
wolfspraulwhat we need to consider is better support for full backups, for encryption, for updating from and on the device (as opposed to reflashing)13:33
wolfspraulI want some way to very easily backup my entire Ben, and restore when needed13:33
wolfspraulalso I want an easy way to encrypt it, whatever the details are exactly needs to be determined, but that whole thing should be encrypted... :-)13:34
wolfspraulfinally we should update from the device13:34
wolfspraulI need to think about it more I guess. somehow those 1.5gb bug me :-)13:35
xiangfutime mtd.nn mount data /data : real 0m 1.80s13:36
wolfspraulI don't know exactly what I want or what we should do, it just keeps bugging me13:37
wolfspraulthe rough goals I think are: easy backup, easy encryption, easy update (from the device), easy access to full 2gb13:38
wolfspraulmaybe we can go there step by step13:38
wolfspraulyes, I think we should not break usability for our existing users first. not another experience like the 256->512 switch.13:39
jason_wolfspraul, would you like to see the copy left obamagotchi?13:50
wolfspraulthanks for asking :-)13:53
kyakwpwrak: you can refine the message, if you wish14:20
kyakwpwrak: but they say, "Enough is as good as a feast" :)14:21
wpwrakkyak: what i mean is that it's not obvious where the boundary is. e.g., does the ...text... mean that the boundary is somewhere inside the "text" ? i.e., i first thought it was the ">" until i realized it was part of the original message14:24
wpwrakkyak: it's not uncommon for systems that indicate a position in a text to show text before and after that text. so if you use ...text..., it can easily be interpreted as ...beforeafter...14:26
wpwrakkyak: in fact, i'm not entirely sure yet what is the intended interpretation ;-)14:26
wpwrakkyak: also, what does "somewhere after" mean ? how many characters after this do i have ? i would think the limit is "somewhere before" (<) or "not after this" (<=)14:28
kyakduh, just make your suggestion!14:30
wpwrakmaybe "this would be the limit: ...text|" ?14:33
kyaksure, why not14:38
kyakwpwrak: is it good? :)14:41
wpwrakexcellent, thanks !14:43
kyaki'm glad everybody is satisfied (i hope) :)14:44
wolfspraulkyak: THANK YOU for helping the twitter challenged...14:48
kyakwolfspraul: i have a feeling this is not the end :) but it's ok till we get it polished14:51
wolfspraulkyak: do you have any thoughts on the Ben software features I mentioned earlier: backup, encryption, update15:03
wolfspraulwhich one is most important to you? (if any)15:03
wolfsprauland how do you solve it right now?15:03
wolfspraulthey all seem to be intertwined to me15:04
wolfspraulI want my Ben to be fully backed up, fully encrypted, and always up-to-date :-) but how?15:04
wolfspraulany thoughts would be very appreciated (no rush, getting this right will require some time)15:04
wolfspraulalso I want to do this in the most natural way possible, no big Ben-specific system that will just become a maintenance headache15:05
wolfspraulmaybe I start looking for some backup/encryption tools first, the only thing I know is rsync...15:06
kyaki don't store anything important on Ben, so making a backup is not so important.. Though it should be very hard to set up with rsync15:06
wolfspraulhe yes, me neither [store anything important]15:07
wolfspraulif I have anything only on the Ben, I copy it to my notebook at the end of the day15:07
kyakand so i don't need encryption, too :)15:07
wolfspraulthat's as much as I trust my Ben :-)15:07
wolfspraulbut I think we can do much better, we just need a strong and easily usable backup and encryption solution15:07
wolfspraulnow that the fundamentals are mostly in place and slowly continue to improve, I think about that more and more15:08
kyakyea, probably all the necessary tools are there15:09
kyakjust need to setup some scripts/hooks15:09
kyaki believe those or also available somewhere15:09
wolfspraulI will dig around for existing backup/encryption tools, maybe there is some good stuff15:10
wolfspraulkyak: two questions if you don't mind. how do you update your Ben? and do you use the 1.5gb partition?15:25
antoniodariushhi guys 15:39
antoniodariushwpwrak, i see now the software to run atben are inside the toolchain 15:40
antoniodariushand the compilation went fine!15:40
ps2chiperim back15:42
antoniodariushwpwrak, so do we still need zigbee? 15:43
wpwrakantoniodariush: i haven't tried the latest release yet, but for the basics, it may be fine. the code has been untouch^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstable for a good while15:50
wpwrakmeanwhile, some improvements have been posted to linux-zigbee. so it may make sense to update from there.15:51
antoniodariushwpwrak, so basically it's the same procedure we used to do but without the hassle of build the kernel and cross compile the library and software?16:12
antoniodariushmy previous nickname was `antonio`, i'm the one who made the video with lots of nanonote connected with atbens  :)16:14
wpwrak(same procedure) yes, that's what i think xiangfu has done. not sure if anyone has tested it yet, though. maybe he did and it worked so perfectly that he didn't even mention it :)16:15
wpwrakyeah, the wireless mystery network :)16:15
wolfspraulantoniodariush: which video?16:16
wolfspraulis it freely licensed and do you have a download link?16:16
antoniodariushwpwrak, ok, at least the kernel and some software are already in the toolchain 16:19
antoniodariushwolfspraul, http://vimeo.com/2792400416:19
antoniodariushyes and you can download it from the wiki http://theclashingrocks.org/wiki/doku.php?id=tcr:pics_video16:21
antoniodariushwe posted here few months ago16:21
wolfspraulwow I completely missed this16:26
wolfspraulI only get a "flash required" warning for the video though16:26
wolfsprauleven though I have flash installed16:26
wolfsprauldo you have a url to the video file?16:27
antoniodariushshould be on the server let me check16:30
wolfspraulI only get that error but nothing to click on, so I cannot find the video file right now16:31
kyakwolfspraul: i update my Ben via reflash_ben.sh. It doesn't affect my data partition. Then i have this script that sets up Ben for me (like: hostname, date, timezone, mount data partition). Every time i change anything in Ben that is going to be overwritten by upgrade, i change the script. It's not too hard, and saves a lot of time after reflash16:36
wolfspraulantoniodariush: ah ok it points to vimeo.com, which I currently cannot access16:36
wolfspraulif you have a download link for a .mp4 or so that would be great, otherwise I check vimeo tomorrow16:37
wolfspraulkyak: he, ok. roughly like I do, only more automated.16:37
antoniodariushwolfspraul, i'm checking on the server just a sec16:38
antoniodariushwolfspraul, here www.theclashingrocks.org/video/ben_wpan.ogv16:41
wolfspraulwill watch - thanks!16:41
wolfspraulI completely missed that video somehow...16:41
antoniodariushI hope you like the project16:43
wolfspraulwill read more about it16:43
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