#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2011-11-17

whitequarkwhat do you think about having a convenient and directly searchable irc log archive for #qi-hw?00:12
whitequarkit's just me being fed up with stupid html-only logs which get badly indexed by Google, and I wrote a proper solution, and maybe it will be useful for someone.00:13
whitequarkcan be seen here: http://irclog.whitequark.org/00:16
wolfspraulwe have a simple searchable one at en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs00:41
wolfsprauluses logs2html by Marius Gedminas00:42
wolfspraulbut sure, if there is something better, let's try it out00:42
wpwrakwhitequark: i think most of us are just "always on" ;-)00:46
wolfspraulwhitequark: looks nice! :-)01:40
kristianpaulnot bad indeed02:06
kristianpaula single window to broswe is atractive too02:07
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu:  this commit break the ks7010 driver. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ae1b77707:13
kyakxiangfu: have you tested if ks7010 works on your side?07:16
xiangfukyak, yes. just tested.07:16
kyakdid you check with WPA2 as well?07:16
xiangfukyak, no. I just run 'ifconfig -a' 07:17
kyakxiangfu: i think this is not sufficient.. i see the interface in ifconfig -a, but it doesn't actually work07:19
kyaknot with OPEN, WEP or WPA207:19
kyakif you confirm that it really works on your side, then i would be sure that i'm having hardware issues with this card07:24
xiangfukyak, I will test that now.07:31
kyakxiangfu: thanks!07:37
xiangfukyak, http://pastebin.com/0Rz566vM08:01
xiangfuI can connect to an open network. 08:01
xiangfuI have to manually set ip address.08:01
xiangfubut RX and TX are all 0.08:01
kyakAccess Point: Not-Associated  08:02
kyakthis is because you are not actually connected08:03
kyakand you are not connected because nothing can be sent or received, indeed08:03
kyakwhen i try connecting via wpa_supplicant, i always get "no data received"08:04
kyakor something like this08:04
kyak"iwlist scan" says "no scan results"08:04
kyakas far as i remember08:04
xiangfukyak, just reboot and try again. now it is working: 08:06
xiangfuoh. I have enable the DEBUG options of ks7010. now it's working.08:08
kyakxiangfu: great! i'll try it at home with the latest image :)08:08
kyakdo you mean it only works with DEBUG option?08:09
xiangfukyak, maybe some 'timing' issue. I am not sure. more ourput mean there are some delay inside. :)08:12
xiangfukyak, just recomple the ks7010 and re-install it. then reboot. 08:12
xiangfukyak, iwlist scanning only give me one open network 'xiangfu' . there are a lot of WPA2 wireless around me.08:13
xiangfukyak, maybe I just enable this 'KS_WLAN_DEBUG=9' in the next release. at least it make the wifi card working. 08:13
xiangfuit needs some time to fix the ks7010 driver. the 'KS_WLAN_DEBUG=9' and another issue: ' SDIO IRQ handling for single irq under linux-3.0'08:15
kyakxiangfu: i just hope this debug output is not going to console :)08:16
kyakdamn this card (or driver?) is weird..08:16
kyakso i guess it is currently working with OPEN networks and with DEBUG=9 only08:17
xiangfukyak, I disable the debug try again. now it is working without the KS_WLAN_DEBUG=9. 08:21
xiangfunow I try to reboot 5 times. see what happen.08:21
xiangfu1. ks79xx: firmware load failed !! retern code = 808:24
xiangfu2. works fine.08:24
xiangfu3. ks79xx: firmware load failed !! retern code = 808:28
xiangfuseems there are some other SDIO wifi card. support by linux 3.008:28
xiangfu4. works. fine.08:28
xiangfu5 works fine.08:28
xiangfuso the SDIO wifi card, hardware(or software) not stable. 08:28
xiangfukyak, you makebe can modify the command line disable the 'console' , check 'fw_printenv' the 'bootargs' 08:29
kyakxiangfu: ok, thanks. Will try that at home08:55
whitequarkwolfspraul, kristianpaul: so I'll then let it flow11:20
whitequarkby the way, I think I'll convert all the old logs for the sake of convenience. that's quite trivial11:20
wpwrak(irc log) hmm, contrast is extremely low. please have some mercy with us living in sunny places :)12:20
wpwrakeven with the blinds down, the calender is almost unreadable12:20
wpwraki like the overall look, though. tidy and modern.12:23
whitequarkwpwrak: sure12:27
whitequarkI'm almost done converting your archives12:28
whitequarkthat python thingy chokes on some messages and emits garbage :/12:28
whitequarklike here http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs/qi-hardware_2010-07-10.log.html at the bottom.12:28
wpwrakthe \e } of gbraad ?12:33
wpwrak\'e even12:33
whitequarkwpwrak: yeah13:28
Artyomhi KristianPaul! :)13:39
Action: C-Keen reflashes his nanonote14:22
whitequarkok, archive conversion is complete14:51
wolfspraulwhitequark: cool, great initiative, thanks a lot!14:52
C-Keenwho is logged there?14:53
wolfspraulwhitequark: how about the #milkymist and #homecmos logs?14:53
whitequarkwolfspraul: no problem14:53
whitequarkcan you point me to urls?14:54
whitequarkah, already found14:54
kristianpaulArtyom, hey, gps clock working now wiht milkymist, still some freezes but for now it seems boot to bios ;)15:00
whitequarkC-Keen: what do you mean by "who"? The criteria for selecting channels?15:02
C-Keenwhitequark: I mean by "who" that stuff I type is not showing up in your logs15:02
whitequarkC-Keen: http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware/2011-11-17#1321542159;15:03
C-Keenah k, nvm :)15:03
whitequarkthere was a small glitch due to conversion of old logs. a 40 Mb SQL file, mind you15:03
whitequarkwolfspraul: done15:18
C-Keenhm how can I switch off the audible terminal bell again?15:18
whitequarkC-Keen: setterm -vbell off IRIC15:18
whitequarkah no15:19
whitequarksetterm -blength 015:19
whitequarkoh no, my mysql is red hot15:20
whitequarkI guess the indexes were invented for a reason...15:20
C-Keenthanks whitequark 15:22
LunaVoraxHello everyone!15:42
LunaVoraxHow is everyone doing?15:42
whitequarkwpwrak: an attempt to make it more readable: http://kaunan.whitequark.org:4567/15:54
wpwraknice works better, thanks !:)15:57
whitequarkok, then I'll put that to production15:57
whitequarkwolfspraul, wpwrak: ok, it looks like someone finally needs that piece of software. so feel free to poke me with any features16:04
kristianpaula good feature will be cool to indentify thread talks in irc :)16:15
whitequarkkristianpaul: thread talks?16:17
whitequarki.e. highlight a chain of messages replying to one another?16:18
whitequarkI doubt this could be done automatically unless all participants always put the name of the one they're talking with at the start of message16:20
whitequarkand not everyone has that habit16:20
wpwraksemantical recognition with automatic summaries ? :)16:20
whitequarkI think that for 99% of conversation two summaries would suffice16:20
whitequarklike "bullshit" and "flamewar"16:21
whitequark*of conversations on irc16:21
whitequarkso, that's not a very hard task16:21
wpwrakhmm, i don't think it's quite so grim around here. but there are certainly channels where you'd be quite right :)16:22
whitequarkyeah, not here indeed :)16:22
whitequark#qi-hw logs have circa 290000 messages16:25
whitequark203153, to be precise, including this one.16:26
kristianpaulwhitequark: yes16:33
kristianpaulyes indded not here, but nice feature16:34
whitequarkkristianpaul: well that's trivial to implement16:34
whitequarkmight be a bit cpu-hungry, through, but not a lot I guess16:35
whitequarkirclog currently costs me like $0.15 a day16:36
kristianpauli just now electricty bill at home is 10usd per month :)16:36
whitequarkit's hosed on a VDS16:36
whitequarkthe whole VDS eats $0.516:36
whitequarka day, that is16:36
kristianpauli see16:37
whitequarkkristianpaul: http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware/2011-11-17 and click on some yellow arrows.18:07
whitequarkwpwrak: (semantic analysis) check out http://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby/2011-11-17#1321483534-chain;18:39
wpwrakso where the part where it summarizes ? "<...200 lines of mindless drivel...>" or such :)18:40
whitequarkI only implemented semantic analysis :/18:41
whitequarknote the absence of nicks on several lines through18:41
wpwrakas in <nick> or as in nick: ?18:42
whitequarkthe latter18:42
wpwrakah, i guess i would only notice when comparing with the original :)18:43
whitequarkwell, there's a sophisticated algorithm which tracks the chains and tries to guess whether one had replied or not18:44
lars_not bad18:46
wpwrakdoes it reorder messages ?18:47
lars_and it is realtime18:47
wpwraklet's see18:47
wpwrakyou still have to reload, i guess18:48
Artyomhi KristianPaul! :)19:01
kristianpaulArtyom: hey19:02
ArtyomI've read about your success ^)19:03
kristianpaulnot quite, i still not understand why system hangs when i ran a bios read command (mr 0xa0000000)19:03
ArtyomAnd I also have good news: I wrote e-mail to Carlos and he updated the code on github :)19:04
kristianpaulbut i guess or is a simple mistake when disabling the usb core or milkymist soc timings are not friendly with a 65535 clock19:04
kristianpaulnice !19:04
kristianpaulso you have a milkymist soc with sdram suport for your board? 19:04
ArtyomNow I could synthsis the SoC19:04
ArtyomI have again questions ;)19:05
kristianpaulthats not a problem :)19:05
ArtyomWhere is bios stored? In flash? Or in block ram? Or it depends on some settings?19:06
kristianpaulit depends19:06
kristianpaulit shoudl be on flash,19:06
kristianpaulbut as you saw the tdc-core port uses a block ram19:07
ArtyomAnd how is it copied to flash?19:07
kristianpaulwell, it depends on your board port :)19:07
kristianpaulfor examplo, for the Milkymist One board19:07
kristianpaulthere is something called fjmem19:07
kristianpaulits a bitstream (open source of course)19:08
kristianpaulthat allow to write that NOR chip in the board19:08
kristianpaulas there is notaditiona MCU on the pcb19:08
ArtyomAnd how this program works? What interface is used?19:08
kristianpaulfor M1 is urjtag19:09
kristianpaulfjmem talks with urjtag19:09
Artyomand what is urjtag? (didn't hear about it before)19:09
kristianpaulis a tool basically to talk some jtag based programers (as i understand)19:11
ArtyomBTW bios is used only for testing? And if I need to run my program what should I do?19:11
kristianpaulso you can talk flash chips, or even cpu for debugging19:11
kristianpaulArtyom: bios couod be hacked to run your own programs.. :)19:12
kristianpaulif you need run own program well, you have three options19:12
kristianpaul1. link it again mmilkymist libc and include proper board intialization code (bios have then in boot.c if remenber well)19:12
kristianpaul2. Link it agains rtems operating system (not evry recomended at early development stages?)19:13
kristianpaul3. Compile it for milkymist uclinux port19:13
kristianpaulArtyom: is this program osgps? :-)19:14
kristianpaulcause i think it can even be already "called" from the bios19:15
kristianpaulit dint havent threads or such isnt?19:15
ArtyomAt first I want to run bios. Then something like hello_world. And finally 19:15
ArtyomI want to test some OS19:15
ArtyomRTEMS at first19:16
Artyommay be something else later19:16
kristianpaulhello world, let see there is one template somewhere..19:16
ArtyomI also want to ask you about programs in "tools" folder. Where are they used? (what for?)19:18
kristianpaulcheck the base directory then main.c19:18
kristianpaulyes, well therare some tools19:19
kristianpaulfor example flterm is used as a uart terminal and also to load binaries to milkymist19:19
whitequarkwpwrak: what do you mean by reordering?19:21
whitequarkand yes, it does every operation on client except for changing the date and searching19:21
whitequark300 lines of ruby and roughly the same amount of js19:22
kristianpaulmakeraw is for migrating images so can be loaded by bios at startup like logo19:22
Artyomuart terminal = receives and transmits data through uart? And what does it mean "loads binaries to milkymist"? It loads binaries to milkymist flash?19:22
kristianpaulothes to generate crc i think..19:23
kristianpaulno load to ram19:24
kristianpaulArtyom: 19:25
kristianpaulit uses its own handshake protocol19:25
kristianpaulso the bios ask for boot and flterm talks to ti and transmit binary19:25
wpwrakwhitequark: (reorder) does it change the sequence of messages. e.g., put this one below your question instead of after the other dialog by Artyom and kristianpaul ? 19:27
lars_as far as i can see not19:31
kristianpaulDocScrutinizer: Hi, what you think about a 65535000 clock for a SoC, or what multiple of xx clocks are actually be?19:46
whitequarkwpwrak, lars_: no it doesn't. I considered implementing it, but as the detection is less than perfect (and will always be so), such a feature will be very inconvenient19:49
whitequarkand the way it works now, it does not prevent you from reading all possibly-incorrectly-not-detected messages19:50
DocScrutinizerkristianpaul: sorry you lost me19:50
wpwrakgood :) machines subtly changing semantic connections are scary :)19:50
DocScrutinizerand it seems my IRC bouncer or freenode is ill19:50
kristianpauli was asking your opinion about what a a System On Chip clock is usually be, for example multiple of  ie, 1219:51
kristianpaularghh, usually is19:52
DocScrutinizerdang feenode! chat.eu.freenode.net failed19:55
DocScrutinizerkicking the eu. part fixed it19:56
kristianpaulodd you still been pinged at DocScrutinizer 19:56
kristianpaul14:56 CTCP PING reply from DocScrutinizer: 0.662 seconds19:56
DocScrutinizerthids is direct login, not via ZNC bouncer19:56
DocScrutinizer51this however was dead19:57
DocScrutinizer-> #freenode, ttyl19:58
kristianpaulhe, what you do if can go back to the past http://lwn.net/Articles/467852/rss ? :)20:10
DocScrutinizerk, freenode says one server here has hickup, nice20:11
DocScrutinizerkristianpaul: sorry, I have no idea how to answer your question about clock20:12
DocScrutinizercpu clock, time clock? what was the question?20:13
kristianpaulcpu clock20:13
DocScrutinizerstill no question detected20:13
DocScrutinizerI think CPU runs usually on NNN MHz, which gets synthesized internally by a programmable PLL20:14
kristianpaulwhat are common values for a cpu clock? do they need to be multiple of a specific number(s)?20:15
DocScrutinizerfrom a xtal master clock that can be anything from 1 .. 1000MHz20:15
DocScrutinizerkristianpaul: what are valid values for cpu clock depends largely on what you can set the PLL dividers to20:16
DocScrutinizerthere's no general rule20:16
kristianpaulok,so thats a green light for my 65535000 Hz clock :-)20:17
DocScrutinizerif the datasheet for your SoC agrees, then yes :-D20:17
kristianpaulmilkymist dont have datasheet yet but you pointed one more excuse for starting one :)20:17
DocScrutinizeroften secondary system clocks get generated from CPU clock by further dividers, and those can't handle arbitrary ratios to create a sane Example Given memory bus clock20:19
DocScrutinizerin new designs however this concept is frequently deprecated as it complicated cpufreq20:20
DocScrutinizeron S3C2442 it been a nightmare to adjust CPU clock without messing up for example UART by glitches in clock20:21
wpwrakkristianpaul: hmm, he may underestimate leadership skills. the whole BSD world also suffered from fragmentation due to incompatible egos. not sure this would have been different if the lawsuit hadn't happened.20:22
kristianpaulegos egos :-)20:22
wpwrakkristianpaul: basically, BSD had all the old guys who had a turf to defend. Linux was something new, so few pre-existing hierarchies were imported. and linus never went egomaniac20:23
kristianpaulyes acepting patches not from the club is important20:26
wpwrakin those days, there was the expression "BSD du jour", suggesting the BSD forks would pop up on a daily basis. usually because some guys couldn't get along, so one forked and then could implement his ideas. in linux, this kind of forking never happened. if someone forks, it's usually a dead end and doesn't get much public attention20:29
DocScrutinizerWhois DocScrutinizer51 20:29
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: identity crisis ? :)20:32
DocScrutinizernah, checking server20:32
DocScrutinizerZNC went apeshit when chat.eu.freenode.net each time again pointed to same server with a hickup, and timeout on login resulted20:33
DocScrutinizernow I'm on chat.freenode.net and got kornbluth.freenode.net (Frankfurt, Germany). So basically exactly what I wanted20:34
DocScrutinizerhad to restart znc "the normalk way" via initscript, as the prov instance was shell interactive to read debug prints, and that time I got some server in Budapest20:35
wpwrakwhitequark: maybe rename your logger so that "wh" doens't autocomplete to it instead of you ? a _ prefix (if that's allowed) may be good23:07
whitequarkwpwrak: oh well. I've missed that fact23:11
wpwrakwhitequark: much easier to talk to you this way  :-)23:13
wpwrakwolfspraul: https://sharism.cc/shop/product_reviews.php?products_id=123:44
wpwrak"The m.." and then the censor struck ;-) clicking on the name produces a cheerful greeting from PHP23:44
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