#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-11-04

wpwrakwolfspraul: (customs) they've basically closed all commercial imports if they're not matched by exports by the same importer/exporter. i don't know to what extent this also affects private imports. even if there are no bureaucratic obstacles there, i would expect their volume to have increased, slowing things down.01:32
wolfspraulare you reading too much news/laws/regulations again?01:33
wolfspraul(hope you don't mind I ask this first :-))01:33
wpwrakwell, i read about shops closing, having to search 4-5 shops to find a simple MIDI cable (all of them the kind that normally would have it), etc.01:34
wolfspraulhmm01:34
wolfspraullet's just try01:34
wpwraki read about customs delays for cars or car parts of 1+ years. tires don't seem to enter the country at all.01:34
wolfspraulI can imagine it's messy01:35
wolfspraultoll booth is the oldest idea how to make money, no?01:35
wpwrakcompanies that are importers buying local products they can export, so they can maintain that import/export balance, etc.01:35
wolfspraulbut let's just also ignore it, how about that?01:35
wpwrakit's not just money01:35
wolfspraulI'm partially Chinese now. there is always a backdoor.01:35
wpwrakit's some terribly misguided plan to strengthen local industrial production01:35
wolfspraulunderstand01:36
wolfspraulbtw, this may go a little unnoticed here, but I'm super happy to see a healthy stream of cleanups and activities to upstream more jz4740 stuff into kernel.org01:37
wolfspraulhttp://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/jz47xx-kernel/2011-November/000010.html01:37
wolfspraulthe only question now is how we can carry all this goodness forward into new products01:38
wpwrak1) make lots of money. 2) start ya ;-)01:39
wolfspraulsure, but I mean very practically - this is all 4740 stuff01:39
wolfspraulI need to talk to Liu Qiang (Ingenic CEO again)01:39
wolfspraulcan't be worse than talking to Sebastien :-) (***SEBASTIEN: THIS IS A JOKE***)01:40
wolfspraulI need to ask about 4760/4770, see whether we can get meaningful sponsorship (a couple hundred thousand USD), demo Milkymist (he's an old-school chip designer)01:41
wpwraki guess 4740 and 4760 have a lot in common. at least the few bits i looked at did. so some drivers are probably shared01:42
wolfsprauljust fired a meeting request mail to Liu Qiang02:51
wolfspraullet's see whether he's in town and still up for it...02:51
wolfspraulI will just ask for a half million USD to develop the NanoNote successor :-)02:52
wpwrakjust R&D or also initial production ?02:53
wolfspraulnah, I didn't calculate seriously02:54
wolfspraulproduction hopefully, right?02:54
wolfspraulI highly doubt he will come around and really do something, but I need to keep the door open and make reasonable proposals.02:54
wpwrakah :) my R&D estimates are in the 200-300 kUSD range. but then you'd need some money to see production as well.02:54
wpwraks/see/seed/02:54
wolfspraulI will tell him the main guy who helped with Ingenic's support in kernel.org now works full-time for Analog Devices, ha ha02:54
wolfspraulthe Chinese are sensitive to this kind of 'loss'02:55
wpwrak;-))02:55
wolfspraulnot that he will then move, I think. they take the pain...02:55
wolfspraulfirst I need to see whether he's still in charge and up for a meeting, so one by one02:55
wolfspraulI just noticed last meeting was in March, how fast time is running02:56
wolfspraulI delayed it several times because I wanted to demo m102:57
wolfspraulnow I can02:57
wpwrakwill you demo it with some interaction ?02:57
wolfspraulnot your level, I'm a little behind02:57
wolfsprauljust camera, simple mode02:57
wolfspraulshow the gui02:58
wpwrakmaybe you should try to catch up :)02:58
wolfspraulthis demo is just to show him our seriousness and ability in making products02:58
wolfspraul#1 Ben NanoNote02:58
wolfspraul#2 Milkymist One02:58
wolfspraulit's not to downplay Ingenic chips02:59
wpwrakit's not that hard. you don't have to wait for usb-midi. you can do that via a laptop and a USB-MIDI cable. they're ~USD 15 in argentina. so that's probably a microcent in china :)02:59
wolfspraulso I needed the box and accessories etc.02:59
wolfspraulif I ask for money for a nanonote successor, it's because we make a product02:59
wolfspraulnot a random board02:59
wolfspraulI highly doubt he will move, as I said I just go there for intel, chit-chat, and to keep reasonable proposals on the table03:00
wolfspraulto be taken out on a rainy day :-)03:01
wolfsprauland first I need the meeting03:01
wpwrakhe may already be impressed by you still being alive :)03:01
wolfspraulnah03:01
wolfspraulin China, even a failed business never really dies03:02
wolfspraulnever really :-)03:02
wolfspraulit's because of face loss etc.03:02
wpwrak;-))03:02
wolfspraulit just hangs around in deeper and deeper zombie states03:02
wolfspraulOm anyone?03:02
wolfspraul:-)03:02
wpwraki should have anticipated that :)03:02
wolfspraulthey cannot admit to failure, culturally03:03
wolfsprauljust not that word03:03
wolfspraulof course everybody still knows03:03
wolfspraulif I don't arrive in a big mercedes, my business failed03:03
wolfspraulthat simple03:03
wolfspraulseriously03:03
wolfspraulthat's the sign03:03
wolfspraulI chatted with a textile entrepreneur once03:04
wolfspraulfirst time I sat in a S600 mercedes03:04
wolfspraulreasonable guy, my age03:04
wolfspraulI asked: WHY DO YOU DO THAT?03:04
wolfspraulwhy spend 200,000 USD on this piece of metal03:04
wolfspraulhe acknowledges it's a lot of money, waste, etc.03:04
wolfspraulbut...03:04
wolfspraulall the other business people do that too03:04
wolfspraulit's their code language03:04
wolfspraulhe cannot afford to arrive in an Audi A603:05
wolfspraul:-)03:05
wpwrakso you'll rent one for the meeting ?03:05
wolfspraulstrange stuff, different cultures03:05
wolfsprauloh I can totally imagine this happening, yes03:05
wolfspraulno not me03:05
wolfsprauldefinitely not03:05
wpwrak;-)03:05
wpwrakpity you're so far away. i could lend you my BMW. that one's lot quite so expensive but looks nice, too :)03:06
wpwraks/lot/not/03:06
wolfspraullast China joke for today: BMW = be my wife03:09
wpwrak?03:10
wolfspraulyou don't get it?03:11
wolfspraulcome on03:11
wolfspraulyou buy a BMW03:11
wolfspraulwhy?03:11
wolfspraulto send out a message!03:11
wolfspraulto all the pretty girls03:11
wpwrakyou use it to go hunting ?03:11
wolfspraulnah03:11
wolfspraulit's a joke/saying here03:11
wolfspraulinteresting perception03:11
wolfspraulmakes perfect sense to me (maybe I do need to get out of here soon :-))03:11
wolfspraulit sends a message that you are rich and strong and attractive03:12
wolfspraulnot to me03:12
wolfspraulto me it sends the message that the driver/owner is stupid03:12
wpwrakokay, so "come to my bed". not necessarily with marriage plans :)03:12
wolfspraulhow different perceptions can be03:12
wpwrakhey !03:12
wolfspraulseriously03:12
wolfspraulit does03:12
wolfspraulsomeone who buys a 200,000 USD car???03:13
wolfspraulstupid03:13
wolfspraulin a few years it's rusty03:13
wolfspraulI see totally dusted and rusting fancy Mercedes coupes and what not standing around here03:13
wolfspraultop-model of course. s600, amg s65, etc.03:13
wolfspraulmaybe the owner got cold feet (depending on where the money came from)03:13
wolfspraulmaybe lost interest03:13
wolfspraulmaybe upgraded to lamborghini03:14
wolfspraulwho knows03:14
wolfspraulall stupid, imho03:14
wolfspraulbut here bmw = be my wife03:14
wolfspraulwell then03:14
wolfspraulgo for it03:14
wolfspraulit saves jobs in good old Germany, right? :-)03:14
wpwraki strongly disagree with any suggestion of the owner of this car being stupid: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/car.jpg03:14
wolfspraulha ha03:15
wolfspraulwait03:15
wolfspraulchecking03:15
wpwrakof course, i didn't pay USD 200'000 for it ;-)03:15
wpwrakand it's not rusty either :)03:15
wpwrak328ci, 1996 model. they should be around 20k EUR these days03:15
wolfspraulvolkswagen has a Lamborghini and Bugatti Veyron in their show-room right a block down from where I am. and the Maybach showroom is also right here.03:16
wolfsprauleach of those cars could finance the NanoNote successor03:16
wpwrakheh :)03:16
wolfspraulsometimes the people that buy them don't want to pick up their car right away, but ask to put a sign with their name or their company name into the car :-)03:16
wolfspraul"bought by Sharism Ltd"03:16
wolfspraulha ha03:16
wolfspraulcrazy, eh?03:16
wolfspraul"no sorry, can you keep it here another month with this sign?" "I come pick it up later"03:17
wpwrak;-))03:17
wolfspraulyep03:17
wolfspraulI think the Bugatti Veyron that Volkswagen has here costs 1 million EUR, no?03:17
wpwrakwell, there are cars that have a decent price/value ratio and others that don't :)03:18
wolfspraul1.2 million03:18
wolfspraulin China probably 2 then03:18
wolfspraulI should just ask03:18
wpwrakmaybe complain that it's too cheap. you'd look like a tramp in such a car.03:19
wpwrakwell, you could say you're looking for one for your butler. for many years of faithful service. make sure other customers overhear :)03:21
wolfspraulremember the Chinese guy who smashed his Ferrari to complain about bad service?03:22
wolfspraulhilarious03:22
wolfspraulI want more of this stuff03:22
wolfspraulwho else is doing that kind of thing nowadays?03:22
wpwrak(bought by signs) perhaps you could also just rent such a sign ?03:22
wpwrak(smashed ferrari) naw, i think i haven't heard of that03:23
wolfspraulha ha03:23
wolfspraulwait I find the video03:23
wolfspraulwe wouldn't want that kind of fate for a Ben or M103:23
wolfsprauloh it was a lamborghini03:24
wpwrakthere are iphone-smashing videos. very viral :)03:24
wolfspraulhttp://forums.finalgear.com/general-automotive/chinese-man-pays-men-to-smash-his-gallardo-with-hammers-48721/03:24
wolfspraulyeah but that tops it03:24
wolfspraulnot a cheapo iphone03:24
wolfspraulthat's true customer passion there03:25
wpwraksick03:31
wolfspraul"Angry about the service, the owner felt his consumer rights were ignored. So he decided that the best way to gain attention was to destroy his car on the 15th of March, which is also World Consumer Rights Day. Apparently, he hired people to publicly destroy his car with hammers and make his statement. This protest was made to provoke public support and goad the manufacturer to respect his consumer rights."03:31
wolfspraulhttp://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/03/video-angry-chinese-owner-destroys-lamborghini-gallardo-/103:32
wpwraki found the comment about the sexual context more intersting :)03:32
wolfspraulcome on the logic could be yours03:32
wolfspraulthis guy just doesn't want to give up on a bug he found with his car03:32
wolfspraul"The Lamborghini Gallardo was bought six months ago, but the engine failed to start on Nov. 29, 2010. The owner contacted the Lamborghini dealer in Qingdao and they transported the Gallardo to their maintenance center.03:32
wolfspraulThe engine problem wasn't solved, but instead the bumper and chassis were damaged by the transport. The owner complained by the dealer but they refused to take responsibility in this matter, so the angry owner contacted Lamborghini CEO Stephan Winkelmann, the brand's China headquarters, its after-sales service manager for Asia-Pacific region, and the brand's owner Volkswagen Group, but the problem was not solved."03:32
wolfspraulfrom bug to emotions03:33
wolfspraulI'm actually wondering what Volkswagen did in the end03:33
wolfspraulthis story definitely went viral03:33
wolfsprauldid they give him a new one?03:33
wpwrakwell, he could probably have found some independent mechanic ... :)03:34
wolfspraulthis kind of decision making can easily spread in China03:34
wolfspraulthen volkswagen suddenly sits on a whole bunch of smashed lamborghinis03:34
wpwrak(volkswagen) do as any chinese would do with something unpleasant and ignore it ;-)03:34
wpwrakanyway, back to M1. if you want to catch up on controls, all you need are:03:35
wolfspraulyeah maybe03:35
wpwrak- one of those cheap USB-MIDI controllers (http://www.korg.com/nanoseries2  http://www.akaipro.com/lpd8  etc.)03:36
wpwrak- a USB-MIDI adapter (~USD 5)03:36
wpwrak- a linux laptop03:36
wolfspraulI think I wait a little longer to understand how hard it is to add usb-midi support03:37
wpwrakinstall jack, fire up qjackctl, open the "connect" dialog, plug the controller(s) into the laptop, watch them appear in the list of devices,03:38
wolfspraulxiangfu already bougth some of those usb-midi adapters03:38
wolfspraulso yes, this is all moving03:38
wolfspraulalso me and Jon need to have them, and document setup with controllers and so on03:38
wpwrak(usb-midi to m1) probably not terribly hard. just needs a lot of context. e.g., it's not only "kernel" drivers but also some of the processing is offloaded to that navre, if i understand things right03:38
wpwrak(you and jon) yes03:39
wpwrakit's not so good if jon is going around, showing everyone what a cool screensaver the M1 is :)03:39
wolfspraulyes well, one by one03:39
wolfspraulfor a while he had no camera03:39
wolfspraulnow he has a wireless one even03:40
wpwrakhis M1 travel case is quite nice. just needs the right feature set :)03:40
wolfspraulwpwrak: I apologize for going offline, that was a good discussion04:57
wolfspraulso let's see04:57
wolfspraulin mechanical controls, we have a lot now, I will draft them into the wiki as a simple list04:58
wolfsprauloh, thread was in #milkymist, continuing there...05:04
wolfspraulwpwrak: nice, Liu Qiang confirmed right away, meeting next Wednesday05:21
wpwrakkewl !05:22
wolfspraulyeah well, you know the disclaimers05:22
wolfspraulif I had a son that could marry his daughter, things would be different :-)05:22
wolfspraulthen we would be talking business!!! :-)05:23
wpwrakhmm. do i sense a lack of willingness to self-sacrifice ? :)05:24
wolfspraulwhat do you think about controller interfaces?05:24
kyakjow_laptop: without this patch, compilation fails on x64 host07:33
kyakjow_laptop: it's used really in many projects, just try googling "cache amnesia patch" :) we pulled it from one of the threads when had issues on x64 hos07:37
kyakt07:37
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-11032011-0147/07:37
kyakthank you, humble bot07:38
ps2chiperDo you guys know of any tamagotchi style dot matrix screens07:38

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