| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: bonnie: useful tool to determine the speed of your filesystem (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/114eb6b | 02:34 |
|---|---|---|
| wpwrak | hmm, if anyone has a "normal" Ben | 11:15 |
| wpwrak | up and running, could they please run these commands ? | 11:16 |
| wpwrak | poke 0x10000068 | 11:16 |
| wpwrak | poke 0x10021008 | 11:16 |
| wpwrak | that'll show how fast the MMC bus is running. my bens are all in a bit of a weird configuration :) | 11:17 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: 0x10000068 = 0xd, 0x10021008 = 0x6 | 12:42 |
| ps2chiper | how much does the milkymist soc cost? | 12:45 |
| wolfspraul | it's free | 12:46 |
| wolfspraul | the lm32 core is under a permissive open source license, the rest that was mostly/all written by Sebastien under gplv3 | 12:47 |
| ps2chiper | to put it another way, how much do you need to pay the fab to make it for you? | 12:47 |
| wolfspraul | oh that's a long subject | 12:47 |
| ps2chiper | thats what beoran4 wants to know | 12:48 |
| wolfspraul | I'm glad you are interested though :-) | 12:48 |
| wolfspraul | yes but with any good questions the answer is not easy | 12:48 |
| wolfspraul | running the design in an fpga is also a chip, right? | 12:48 |
| wolfspraul | and if you like another process, there are many to choose from | 12:48 |
| wolfspraul | wait, I lookup a nice 3-series article I read recently | 12:48 |
| ps2chiper | beoran4 just wants a avr chip that is similar in power to the gameboy advance so he can make his own shanzhai handheld | 12:49 |
| beoran4 | well, I'm not against using fgpa's as long as they can be very cheap | 12:49 |
| beoran4 | ps2chiper: yes, that's the goal really, | 12:49 |
| ps2chiper | when you look up articles, there not cheap | 12:50 |
| beoran4 | it doesn't even have to be avr | 12:50 |
| ps2chiper | well i think for your simplicity it does | 12:50 |
| ps2chiper | if you start using external ram and flash, your pcb complexity goes up | 12:50 |
| beoran4 | ps2chiper: yes, or something similarly simple :) | 12:50 |
| wolfspraul | here, not bad... http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/chip-design-open-source-and-diy-part-1-indie-chip-design | 12:52 |
| wolfspraul | but it sounds like you guys are still in high-level/dreaming mode :-) | 12:53 |
| ps2chiper | to put it another way, how much money do you spend per soc to the fabs? | 12:53 |
| wolfspraul | me? nothing, I have never worked with a foundry | 12:53 |
| wolfspraul | not there yet | 12:53 |
| wolfspraul | (and not needed right now) | 12:53 |
| ps2chiper | im working on opencola | 12:54 |
| wolfspraul | he, cool | 12:55 |
| wolfspraul | I had never heard of that before | 12:55 |
| ps2chiper | its the gpl cola | 12:55 |
| ps2chiper | Beoran4 is a master chemist | 12:55 |
| beoran4 | master's degree... but my programming is more masterful :p | 12:56 |
| beoran4 | since that's my day job | 12:56 |
| beoran4 | hmm, designing a chip myself would take this project too far | 12:56 |
| ps2chiper | beoran4, you cant get a straight answer from this channel, only helpful nudges | 12:57 |
| beoran4 | sure | 12:58 |
| ps2chiper | wolfspraul, do you know of any avr chips that have 512KB of ram and flash? | 12:58 |
| beoran4 | right now, some hinds on what cpu to use would be useful | 12:58 |
| wolfspraul | no I don't know | 13:00 |
| wolfspraul | beoran4: what do you want to design/manufacture exactly, and for what purpose? | 13:00 |
| beoran4 | a hand held game, that is as cheap and simple as possible , but still open and relatively easy to program for everyone | 13:01 |
| beoran4 | in othe rwords, an open source GBA/GBA SP | 13:01 |
| beoran4 | equivalent | 13:01 |
| beoran4 | but the cards shoulkd probably be SD cards | 13:02 |
| wolfspraul | wow, big project | 13:02 |
| beoran4 | so you can have many games on one card | 13:02 |
| ps2chiper | wolfspraul helped make the nanonote | 13:02 |
| beoran4 | in essence it's "simple"r than tha nano note | 13:03 |
| beoran4 | I'd probaby resue exising case designs too | 13:03 |
| beoran4 | reuse | 13:03 |
| ps2chiper | you can use the gba advance carts and make it usb programmable if you want a nonelastic effect on people. | 13:04 |
| beoran4 | I know it's a big project, so it will take time | 13:04 |
| ps2chiper | I think right now, for wolfspraul, its beer o'clock | 13:05 |
| beoran4 | ps2chiper: hmmm, the cards are not that ubiquituous, and programmable gba cards are illegal in several european countries (due to piracy) | 13:05 |
| beoran4 | if he wants beer, we have plenty tasty ones here in belgium | 13:05 |
| beoran4 | wolfspraul: can I bribe you with belgian beer? :) | 13:05 |
| ps2chiper | wolfspraul is the frenchmans natural enemy | 13:06 |
| ps2chiper | a german | 13:06 |
| beoran4 | ah, but I'm not french | 13:06 |
| ps2chiper | no, but your beer may be | 13:06 |
| beoran4 | French beer? What a joke. :) | 13:06 |
| ps2chiper | thats how world war 1 was started, by that joke. just kidding | 13:07 |
| beoran4 | Ok, we have beer in wallonia (french speaking belgium) ,but france? That's just like dutch beer, whihc we call "camel's p*ss" | 13:07 |
| ps2chiper | how do you say "camel piss" in french? | 13:09 |
| beoran4 | http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_parameters.asp?category_id=163&family_id=607&subfamily_id=2138&part_id=4544&ListAllAttributes=1 | 13:10 |
| beoran4 | this is probably the best possible | 13:10 |
| beoran4 | 256kb flash | 13:10 |
| beoran4 | 128sram | 13:10 |
| beoran4 | if you take more flash then there's no SD card | 13:11 |
| beoran4 | although they have with 512bk flash but that would be USB programmable only | 13:11 |
| ps2chiper | hmm, is 128KB enough ram for you? | 13:12 |
| beoran4 | it's not much, you'd need external ram I think | 13:13 |
| beoran4 | so, maybe not this one then? | 13:13 |
| beoran4 | perhaps I should go for SAM7 in stead? | 13:13 |
| ps2chiper | then i dong suggest an avr chip | 13:13 |
| ps2chiper | i suggest you go for a regular soc using spi flash and 1 sdram | 13:14 |
| beoran4 | 128 kb is the maximum on AVR32 | 13:14 |
| ps2chiper | I guess so, i havent sen any larger | 13:14 |
| wolfspraul | beoran4: what was the last device you designed or manufactured? | 13:15 |
| beoran4 | I'm a beginner, thank you | 13:15 |
| beoran4 | so I'm all ears wwhen it comes to listening to more esperienced people. as long as you don't say it's "impossible" :p | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | perfect, we are all | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | oh, you certainly wouldn't and shouldn't care about "impossible" | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | I have long given up on that | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | it's natural that people don't listen to that, I woudln't | 13:16 |
| wolfspraul | you will go in this direction for a while (the one you plan now), then you will learn a lot of things, then you will regroup/refocus around what you care about the most, etc. | 13:17 |
| ps2chiper | Then your wife will ask you to make more money, so you quit | 13:17 |
| beoran4 | heh | 13:18 |
| beoran4 | I already have been going in this direction for a while though, mentally speaking | 13:18 |
| beoran4 | it's why I was interested in the ND and eon projects | 13:19 |
| wolfspraul | what you are planning there, also with your comparisons to GBA etc. is typically done by a total of hundreds of people | 13:19 |
| wolfspraul | so you either have to scale up a lot, or zoom in on what you exactly want to do | 13:19 |
| wolfspraul | imagine you want to fly to your cousin in Florida next summer, ok? | 13:19 |
| wolfspraul | summer 2012 | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | and on TV you have seen those nice large Boeing & Airbus airplanes that can take you there | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | well. you decide to build and fly in your own | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | should certainly be possible before the summer vacation? | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | and you can make it more fuel-efficient than the big ones too, surely. which means you save money! | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | off you go | 13:20 |
| wolfspraul | at least until summer 2012 you will have your hands full :-) | 13:21 |
| wolfspraul | then maybe until end-of 2012 you can have all sorts of excuses for the delays | 13:21 |
| wolfspraul | and sometime in 2013 maybe you decide to just buy a regular economy ticket and fly with the stuff that already exists :-) | 13:21 |
| beoran4 | sure | 13:22 |
| beoran4 | but that's saying "it's impossible" :) | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | nah | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | go build it | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | I say: IT'S GREAT! | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 13:22 |
| beoran4 | german humar | 13:22 |
| ps2chiper | The chinese are trying to build their own aircraft | 13:22 |
| beoran4 | humor | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | but seriously - what is your main interest? | 13:22 |
| wolfspraul | can you zoom in a little? | 13:23 |
| beoran4 | this is a bit simpler than an aircraft, though | 13:23 |
| wolfspraul | you can of course start like you describe above, but man, yes, I just know - you will not get very far :-) | 13:23 |
| ps2chiper | he wants a open source hand held video game he can dick around with | 13:23 |
| beoran4 | ok, what do you mean "zoom in" | 13:23 |
| wolfspraul | how well can you read and design electrical circuits? | 13:23 |
| wolfspraul | do you have any mechanical engineering experience? | 13:23 |
| wolfspraul | I take it you are a software dev - all levels? kernel etc. all no problem? | 13:24 |
| beoran4 | I can read circuits, no mechanical design, but I programmed on the bare hardware, I programmed atari2600 games | 13:24 |
| ps2chiper | wolfspraul, i already brow beaten him for a few months about these issues | 13:24 |
| wolfspraul | my analogy with the summer vacation and "let me quickly design my own airplane" may not be too far off | 13:25 |
| wolfspraul | you want to achieve a small goal. you want to have a game console for yourself? that's all? | 13:25 |
| beoran4 | it's not an idea that I has suddenly | 13:25 |
| wolfspraul | maybe I just donate one to you to make you happy :-) | 13:25 |
| ps2chiper | you can use my atmega168 to make your own atari2600 | 13:25 |
| wolfspraul | or you have a big goal in mind? | 13:25 |
| ps2chiper | the big coal is opencola | 13:25 |
| wolfspraul | if you have a small goal, and you try to reach it in the most difficult way, well. hard to help... | 13:26 |
| beoran4 | ps2chiper: that's also one "big goal" yes. | 13:26 |
| beoran4 | wolfspraul: I see what you mean, howeber, I'm not a teenager | 13:26 |
| wolfspraul | maybe it's just a hobby | 13:26 |
| ps2chiper | You can try making a toned down fuzebox for atari 2600 type games | 13:27 |
| beoran4 | well, I want a bit more thna atari 2600 though :p | 13:27 |
| beoran4 | and not only for myself | 13:27 |
| ps2chiper | yes, but i can donate the atmega168 chips to you | 13:27 |
| beoran4 | ah I see | 13:27 |
| wolfspraul | there you go | 13:27 |
| wolfspraul | you almost made it | 13:27 |
| beoran4 | rofl | 13:28 |
| ps2chiper | no, seriously, you can use the fuze box as an example | 13:28 |
| ps2chiper | that is atmega644 | 13:28 |
| beoran4 | wolfspraul: I get the distinct impression of not being taken serious, but I understand wy, too man ydreamers here, heh? | 13:28 |
| ps2chiper | the only difference is the ammount of pins and flash | 13:28 |
| wolfspraul | no no | 13:28 |
| wolfspraul | dreamers is good | 13:28 |
| wolfspraul | please continue down your path, and keep us posted | 13:28 |
| wolfspraul | I'm just saying: zoom in to what is really important to you | 13:29 |
| wolfspraul | the faster and the more you can zoom in, the better imho | 13:29 |
| ps2chiper | hey wolfspraul, im trying to get into router business again, do you have any openwrt devs you can toss my way? | 13:29 |
| wolfspraul | how would I do that | 13:29 |
| ps2chiper | like drawf tossing at the bar | 13:30 |
| wolfspraul | fire up your text editor, improve something, send a patch | 13:30 |
| beoran4 | xwhat's really important to me is that it's a design that's easy to clone | 13:30 |
| beoran4 | and easy to (mass) produce | 13:30 |
| beoran4 | but also easy to make just one of | 13:30 |
| ps2chiper | I think wolfspraul finished beer o'clock | 13:31 |
| ps2chiper | now is drunk o'clock | 13:31 |
| beoran4 | in other words, so I and othe rhobbyists can make it easily, but it could also be mass produced in a later stage | 13:31 |
| beoran4 | fuzebox is not a bad idea but it's not handheld | 13:32 |
| ps2chiper | like i was saying, you could use the atmega168 for a tomagochi style device | 13:32 |
| ps2chiper | like a tomogochi obama | 13:32 |
| beoran4 | hehehe | 13:33 |
| beoran4 | would that sell well in china? | 13:33 |
| beoran4 | it will need to say "yes we can!" | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | yes it would | 13:34 |
| beoran4 | and you have to feed it fried chicken | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | OFC | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | obama fried chicken | 13:34 |
| beoran4 | rofl | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | and waffles | 13:34 |
| beoran4 | actually, the fusebox is a nice design just a tiny bit weaksauce for me | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | or it can be a countdown to the next reelection | 13:34 |
| beoran4 | but! | 13:34 |
| ps2chiper | well start low | 13:35 |
| beoran4 | maybe it could be adjusted to a AVR32 | 13:35 |
| ps2chiper | grind up | 13:35 |
| beoran4 | 64KB flash and 4KB of RAM | 13:35 |
| beoran4 | if you look at that, then 128kb of ram isan ocean to swim in | 13:36 |
| ps2chiper | i suggest you stick to atmega168 since I have 2500 of them | 13:36 |
| beoran4 | just have to page a lot to sd card | 13:36 |
| beoran4 | how much ram/flash does that have? | 13:37 |
| beoran4 | the atmega 168? | 13:37 |
| ps2chiper | ram, i need to check, flash 16KB | 13:37 |
| ps2chiper | 20mhz speed | 13:37 |
| beoran4 | probably too few ram to do color screens | 13:39 |
| beoran4 | but monochrome would be possible | 13:39 |
| ps2chiper | hmm, well a black and white screen would suit obama well | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | http://www.microtipsusa.com/product.asp?LCD=graphics | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | something like those | 13:40 |
| ps2chiper | Its 1KB ram | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | heh, this idea is so crazy it might work :) | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | 1kb | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | hmmm | 13:40 |
| beoran4 | let me see, 512bytes vidoe memory? | 13:41 |
| ps2chiper | http://tamagotchi.sourceforge.net/ | 13:41 |
| beoran4 | 512 bytes program memory | 13:41 |
| ps2chiper | if your trying to make a classic tamagotchi with obama as the character, it will work well | 13:41 |
| ps2chiper | the bom would be about 5 dollars | 13:41 |
| beoran4 | and coudl you sell it? | 13:42 |
| beoran4 | can we use existing casings and screens? | 13:43 |
| ps2chiper | sure it would be a huge hit | 13:45 |
| beoran4 | ok, let's try to make a design then | 13:46 |
| beoran4 | cpu: atmega168 | 13:47 |
| ps2chiper | no, you start with an atmega168 emulator | 13:47 |
| beoran4 | ah, to see if I can implement it? :) | 13:47 |
| beoran4 | I'd need to know what LCD screen to use though, but any way | 13:47 |
| ps2chiper | they have a ton of lcd to atmega168 project | 13:48 |
| beoran4 | let me see | 13:49 |
| ps2chiper | i have a tv show for you, its called top secret recipe, its a food hacker so to speak, and he reverses secret recipes | 13:50 |
| beoran4 | cool | 13:50 |
| beoran4 | hmmm, can't seem to find an atmega168 emulator just yet | 13:51 |
| beoran4 | muts be out there somewhere | 13:51 |
| ps2chiper | lets take it back to eon | 13:51 |
| beoran4 | ok | 13:54 |
| Ayla | awesome project :D | 15:17 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: (registers) thanks ! | 15:20 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: 068 = 0d | 15:47 |
| kristianpaul | 21008 = 0 | 15:47 |
| wpwrak | hmm, interesting | 15:57 |
| wpwrak | 0x0d means 336/14 -> 24 MHz for the MMC controller | 15:58 |
| wpwrak | 0 means bus_clock = mmc_clock/1 | 15:59 |
| wpwrak | 6 means bus_clock = mmc_clock/64 | 15:59 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: so your MMC should be able to transfer up to 12 MB/sec (minus overhead) | 16:00 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: while yours would do about 187 kB/sec | 16:00 |
| wpwrak | ps2chiper: (512 kB flash and ram) would that be flash+ram == 512 kB ? or flash == 512 kB && ram == 512 kB ? | 16:06 |
| ps2chiper | the 2nd part | 16:06 |
| wpwrak | (memory) ah .. you already went beyond that point | 16:14 |
| qwebirc88488 | Hi | 16:31 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: wpwrak : you there? | 16:31 |
| zrafa | qwebirc88488: hi | 16:31 |
| qwebirc88488 | Are you "in the know" about the Nanonote? | 16:31 |
| wpwrak | (memory) the biggest atmel chip (any family) has 25 kB of RAM | 16:32 |
| wpwrak | zrafa: aye | 16:32 |
| zrafa | qwebirc88488: you can change your nick writting: /nick nickyouwant | 16:32 |
| zrafa | wpwrak: are you getting something from sharism these months? :) | 16:33 |
| harrkev | I was wondering if Nanonote was dead. No update to the web site in months... | 16:33 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: indeed, where are the monthly news ? :) | 16:33 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: wpwrak : Miriam wants to buy a super embedded linux computer, and she would like to buy it from sharism. The one I got was paid by jlime so we do not know | 16:34 |
| wpwrak | zrafa: dunno ... so far, nothing is planned | 16:34 |
| harrkev | I have also read rumors of a Nanonote 2, but nothing in a year... | 16:34 |
| wpwrak | harrkev: these are just that, rumors. work on a NN2 (that would be the "Ya") hasn't started yet | 16:35 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: wpwrak : how to buy it using our money :).. And if the shipping is okey from sharism -> arg (okey=no many surprises from customs) | 16:35 |
| wpwrak | harrkev: right now, most of the attention of qi-hw folks is on the milkymist one: http://milkymist.org/ | 16:35 |
| harrkev | wpwrak: Thanks. I am considering getting a Nanonote and wanted to know that work was still on-going on the OS, but fixes, etc. Thanks. | 16:36 |
| wpwrak | customs are tricky these days. i hope they're still letting personal shipments through | 16:36 |
| wpwrak | harrkev: yes, the distribution is still being maintained. if you look at the mailing list, there's still a fair bit of activity. and especially around distribution issues. | 16:37 |
| harrkev | K. Thnx. Bye | 16:37 |
| Action: mstevens looks for tuxbrain | 16:38 | |
| kristianpaul | :_D | 17:10 |
| kristianpaul | with that MMC speed a 2 bit SDR could be posible :) | 17:12 |
| kristianpaul | or 1 bit at least ;) | 17:14 |
| wpwrak | hmm, one bit may actually work | 17:19 |
| wpwrak | MMC has a stream mode. i don't think ingenic implemented it as truly infinite, but at least with fewer limitations as SD | 17:19 |
| wpwrak | unfortunately, it's limited to 1 bit. if you try to set the bus to 4 bits, the controller won't even start | 17:20 |
| jow_laptop | kyak: can you explain me the purpose of "001-cache-amnesia.patch" in gcc-mips? | 17:35 |
| jow_laptop | kyak: I worked on an updated gcc package based on the Qi one which works on more platforms and got along without this patch | 17:36 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: did something get worse with Argentine customs? | 22:38 |
| wolfspraul | and for rafa, maybe we can send it together with the next m1 board | 22:39 |
| wolfspraul | the one where Adam applied the final rc4 reset ic circuit (after we know what the final should be) | 22:39 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: when would that be? .. Miriam is going to BA in december for sure. Maybe she can bring his new computer at that time? | 22:48 |
| wolfspraul | that could work, speed also depends on when Werner finalizes his rc4 recommendation | 22:49 |
| wolfspraul | Adam is on standby | 22:49 |
| wolfspraul | in fact I am constantly asking when Werner thinks Adam can start, but Werner is operating at a level that Adam cannot contribute to, so we have to wait for the result of Werner's analysis. | 22:49 |
| wolfspraul | but I think it's just a few days out, maybe a week | 22:49 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: we will try to pay with our credit card today or tomorrow (real one :P ) .. and then we will talk with Yi (Yi is the name of her?) to coordinate the shipping. I will ask customs here in Neuquen as well | 22:50 |
| zrafa | so when we already decided the best way we can tell her and then to do the shipping | 22:51 |
| wolfspraul | huh? don't understand | 22:52 |
| wolfspraul | can we wait a week? | 22:52 |
| zrafa | yes, we can. sorry. I meant. We will buy it today or tomorrow, but we want to wait a while before sharism sends it , until we know the best way | 22:53 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: ^ | 22:53 |
| wolfspraul | if we combine into a shipment for Werner, shipping will be a lot cheaper | 22:53 |
| wolfspraul | so don't just buy in the webshop now, let me coordinate this with Werner first | 22:53 |
| zrafa | okey. great | 22:53 |
| wolfspraul | and THANKS A LOT for wanting to buy one! | 22:54 |
| zrafa | tell that to Miriam :) well... I will tell her ;) | 22:54 |
| wolfspraul | yes, please | 22:54 |
| kristianpaul | oh nice :) | 22:54 |
| kristianpaul | zrafa: what you plan to do with M1. i'm really curious :-) | 22:59 |
| kristianpaul | i guess you bring it to the Uni for some development* course? | 22:59 |
| kristianpaul | as on of the plans :) | 22:59 |
| kristianpaul | gottat go,i hoep get internet in the bus station :) | 23:00 |
| wolfspraul | not m1 - Ben | 23:02 |
| ignatius_ | Is it possible to use USB devices with the Ben's USB port? Like, for example, a USB mouse? I've compiled "USB Host" into the kernel, and now, at boot up, it detects "usb0" with a MAC address. Does it work as a USB device? Or does it just support USB "Gadget" support? Not having a usable USB port seems like a waste of motherboard space to me. | 23:27 |
| zear | ignatius_, ben's usb port has no host support | 23:28 |
| zear | you can connect to it only devices that act as hosts themselves | 23:29 |
| ignatius_ | What is the "usb0" than? | 23:29 |
| zear | usb networking? | 23:29 |
| ignatius_ | Gadget? | 23:29 |
| zear | i'd say | 23:29 |
| ignatius_ | Ok. I see. Thanks for the clarifications. | 23:30 |
| zear | moreover, usb port in ben is probably unpowered | 23:30 |
| ignatius_ | I wish it did have USB. :( | 23:30 |
| zear | so even if it has the host functionality, you couldn't plug devices that aren't self powered | 23:30 |
| zear | *has/had | 23:30 |
| ignatius_ | Nod. | 23:30 |
| ignatius_ | I was trying with a mouse and a wireless modem. | 23:31 |
| ignatius_ | Oh. Well. I guess I still have the ks7010 card. | 23:31 |
| --- Fri Nov 4 2011 | 00:00 | |
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