| whitequark | wpwrak: I've found the cause; the USB just cannot provide the current required | 00:35 |
|---|---|---|
| whitequark | it works just fine from 13V 300mA power supply | 00:35 |
| wpwrak | quite power-hungry then | 00:35 |
| wpwrak | or your USB is too weak | 00:35 |
| whitequark | yep, CCFL backlight isn't very energy-efficient | 00:36 |
| whitequark | also: the LCD itself eats 120mA@5V, and backlight wants 300mA@12V | 00:36 |
| whitequark | that's at least 720mA@5V total | 00:37 |
| wpwrak | seems that you need your own power supply, too | 00:38 |
| whitequark | ah, and also the module is powered through a FET (which was not selected by me). looks like additional 0.5V are falling on it | 00:38 |
| whitequark | I should have checked that in first place :/ | 00:38 |
| whitequark | that FET thingy is quite mysterious I'd say. see: it's a P-channel FET and the INVTOFF signal is active low, so I've added two inverters on BC547 | 00:39 |
| whitequark | when I feed it low level, it turns off, when I set it high, it turns on | 00:40 |
| whitequark | well, it works just the same if I cut the wire from the inverters to FET gate in two | 00:40 |
| whitequark | exactly. | 00:40 |
| whitequark | so it's floating in the air. | 00:40 |
| whitequark | how the hell it manages to work?! | 00:40 |
| wpwrak | ;-) | 00:41 |
| whitequark | (I've simply forgot to solder in the gate. And when I noticed it... that was a shock, to say at least.) | 00:42 |
| whitequark | the inverters do not alter supply voltage in any way | 00:43 |
| whitequark | they just do some black magic, and FET does too, and it works. | 00:43 |
| wpwrak | a circuit designed by wizards ;-) | 00:47 |
| whitequark | then I'm a wizard | 00:48 |
| whitequark | which is doubtful :D | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | wpwrak: ( how do you like that ? ) Well, it's OK if needed. I just don't see the exact purpose - rather contact the whole metal sheet with only one metallic spacer and use 3 plastic spacers | 01:27 |
| wpwrak | not sure if mechanically compatible plastic spacers are available | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually such RC is used for "floating" GND that may have DC offset, or 50Hz, and you still want to make sure it's effectively grounded for ESD and RF | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, just make those R and C NC, same effect :-D | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gather you do all this to avoid GND loops? | 01:30 |
| wpwrak | NC ? then the feet/spacers wouldn't be grounded anymore | 01:30 |
| wpwrak | i don't know why all this is there :) | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 01:31 |
| wpwrak | i would just isolate them :) | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought you're trying to sell it to me | 01:31 |
| wpwrak | naw, i | 01:31 |
| wpwrak | 'm trying to figure it out ;-) | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3 of 4 are nonsense anyway, better make them NC | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and after you did, you can make the 4th 0R | 01:32 |
| wpwrak | the only use this would have would be to ground the conductive tape, right ? | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | right, then you would need 2 times 0R | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | when using that alu tape idea | 01:34 |
| wpwrak | 2 times ? | 01:35 |
| wpwrak | ah, for each leg of the X ? | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, the 2 stripes are not connected, so each one needs a post to gnd it | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | just ONE post per stripe | 01:35 |
| wolfspraul | aw_: hi good morning! | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | more like good night :-D | 01:36 |
| wolfspraul | nah | 01:36 |
| wolfspraul | I'm sitting with my Venti Coffee here in bright morning sunlight | 01:36 |
| aw_ | wolfspraul, good morning hi | 01:36 |
| wolfspraul | aw_: since it's Monday morning, let's chat a bit about the plan going forward | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm afraid I'll do the same when I don't manage to get some sleep next 3 h | 01:37 |
| wolfspraul | slowly rc3 is settling down | 01:37 |
| wolfspraul | let me look at the wiki page a bit :-) | 01:37 |
| wolfspraul | what's your plan this week? | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi aw_ | 01:38 |
| aw_ | since the remaining 'packed for sale' is only 7 sets now and 23 set 'Avail-fix2b-l3' ready already; so need to do packing/assemble first this week | 01:39 |
| aw_ | DocScrutinizer, hi | 01:39 |
| wolfspraul | 41 units have been sent out | 01:40 |
| wolfspraul | just counted | 01:40 |
| kristianpaul | :o | 01:40 |
| kristianpaul | :-) | 01:40 |
| wolfspraul | ok, those 7 need to be reflashed/locked again | 01:40 |
| wpwrak | pretty good for no real launch :) | 01:40 |
| aw_ | wolfspraul, hopefully you don't have a 10-Pack shipped in 2 ~ 3 days. :-) | 01:40 |
| wolfspraul | probably not | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | so first you re-lock the 7, then finish another 23 | 01:41 |
| aw_ | so I may need to fo a batch work for 23 set in one time. | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | nice | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | that will bring the total that are 100% good to 71 | 01:41 |
| wolfspraul | then we look at the other 19 | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | aw_: how about that other rc2 board? | 01:42 |
| aw_ | i can do re-lock later | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | it sounds like you need another week or so before we start looking into the 19, and talk about next runs such as rc4, labsw, or some other power supply I am currently investigating | 01:42 |
| aw_ | aw_, no further on that bad rc2 board which I'll back to see it after 23 assembles and 7 relock. | 01:42 |
| wolfspraul | ok | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | Werner continues with the NOR corruption, it sounds like he will get to the real bottom of that this week | 01:43 |
| wolfspraul | the relay keeps clicking away :-) | 01:43 |
| Action: DocScrutinizer joins in on a bit NOR curruption, it's fun | 01:44 | |
| wolfspraul | aw_: how much does a cheap ESD gun cost in Taipei? | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | phaser | 01:44 |
| wpwrak | "your life" ;-) | 01:44 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: actually we are shipping out nice rc3 units almost as fast as Adam can make them | 01:45 |
| kristianpaul | *g* | 01:45 |
| aw_ | wpwrak, hi i just realized the dumpotp, and 'poke' peek' cmd in jtag, ignore my email on list, i should have tried script then asked. ;-) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 01:45 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: i'm actually a little worried about that ;-) | 01:45 |
| wolfspraul | nah | 01:45 |
| wolfspraul | rc3 was work intensive, so be it | 01:45 |
| wolfspraul | we learn from that, and then rc4 will be better, hopefully (ahem) | 01:45 |
| aw_ | wolfspraul, a cheap ESD gun? mmm...need to ask or/ check here wen first. | 01:46 |
| wolfspraul | yes | 01:46 |
| wpwrak | i think you need to find an assistant for adam, to help with those routine tasks. as runs get larger, the workload will even get worse | 01:46 |
| wolfspraul | if we can find a cheap one, maybe you can get one... | 01:46 |
| wolfspraul | one by one | 01:46 |
| wolfspraul | no customer was turned back, because we don't have more customers either | 01:46 |
| wolfspraul | it needs to scale in sync | 01:46 |
| wpwrak | what number do you have in mind for rc4 ? | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | yeah well | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | wolfspraul: I can send you some fractions of the lightning that hit my house a few weeks ago - I bottled it ;-D | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | I was hoping nobody asks for a while ;-) | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | I don't know | 01:47 |
| wolfspraul | there's a lot of things I want to achieve with rc4, including maybe boom and digikey sourcing (for some parts, not all) | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | from a manufacturing standpoing, it should be 150 or so | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | standpoint | 01:48 |
| wolfspraul | but then I want to improve the quality & product as much as possible, the whole dvi-i thing standing out | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | or DocScrutinizer's 'X' | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | what's the speed of rc3 sales? can we find new customers? distributors? | 01:49 |
| wolfspraul | some parts may have long lead times, such as power supplies (2 months) | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | the cases took 8 months ;_) | 01:50 |
| wpwrak | how are rc3 sales composed ? mainly people who have been waiting already ? | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | no | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | new random people from here and there | 01:50 |
| wpwrak | (case) ouch ! | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | well | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | roh can probably do it faster, but for 150, it's at least a month or so | 01:50 |
| wolfspraul | and it's very expensive | 01:51 |
| wpwrak | try kristianpaul's shop ? | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | maybe we can improve the metal sheet, buttons | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* I get you those in < 1 week | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | nah | 01:51 |
| wolfspraul | you guys are doing easy superficial talk :-) | 01:51 |
| Action: kristianpaul lacks QA | 01:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | not really, I got my acrylic shop here, and they do awesome things | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | incl arbitrary CNC iirc | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | the screws are still not right | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | even though roh already spent an ungodly amount of time on them | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | the feet cost a fortune | 01:52 |
| wpwrak | buttons should probably be milled. not sure how smooth the surface would be, but there doesn't need to be any fancy gluing and such | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | the metal sheet and insulation layer is a pain | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | gluing the buttons out of 3 pieces is a pain | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | acrylic tolerances cause a lot of issues | 01:52 |
| wolfspraul | width tolerance | 01:53 |
| kristianpaul | indeed, noo way | 01:53 |
| wolfspraul | ok just trust me - a lot of work | 01:53 |
| kristianpaul | superficial* | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | the width tolerances are a bit outlandish, yes | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | gluWHAT? | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | i dont think i could find any acrylic with such wide tolerances around here ;-) | 01:53 |
| wolfspraul | so with rc4, I want to improve a lot of things | 01:53 |
| wolfspraul | cheaper, easier to manufacture, etc. | 01:53 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: when did you do your last acrylic project? | 01:53 |
| wpwrak | i haven't worked acrylic yet | 01:54 |
| wolfspraul | ah :-) | 01:54 |
| wpwrak | but i've been looking around for sources. problem here is to get it in reasonable quantities | 01:54 |
| wolfspraul | there is always some problem | 01:54 |
| wolfspraul | the magic with rc3 is that we actually ship a good product | 01:54 |
| wolfspraul | not some 'but' included | 01:54 |
| wpwrak | the suppliers sell it in large sheets, often 1 x 2 m or such. | 01:54 |
| wolfspraul | so with rc4, I want to do my absolute best | 01:55 |
| wolfspraul | improvements all over | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | wpwrak: you need a better shop | 01:55 |
| wolfspraul | from a volume perspective, it should be 150 | 01:55 |
| wolfspraul | but I also need to be careful that I don't sit on a lot of unsellable junk later | 01:55 |
| wolfspraul | hardware inventory is nasty | 01:55 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: the small shops want to do the engraving, so they don't sell the raw material :) | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, no | 01:56 |
| wolfspraul | the pixels of the 'M' logo should be surface scanned, that would look much nicer I think | 01:56 |
| wolfspraul | anyway, there are hundreds of little things | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | not here, they do, but also sell raw | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | any qty | 01:56 |
| wolfspraul | first step, let's make the electrical & layout as good as we can | 01:56 |
| wolfspraul | ah, I will add Joerg's 'X' idea now... | 01:56 |
| wolfspraul | to here http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC3_Known_Issues | 01:56 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: hmm, there's one next door. haven't asked them yet. maybe i can get a little piece from them, to get started | 01:57 |
| wolfspraul | we could even explore a metal case | 01:57 |
| wolfspraul | what are the priorities? | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | also add my concerns about a VGA connector with no real mech support from anything but PCB | 01:57 |
| wolfspraul | #1 find as many paying customers as fast as possible | 01:57 |
| kristianpaul | may be metal will be friendly with tolerances? | 01:58 |
| wpwrak | i wouldn't change the case a lot. it currently "works". | 01:58 |
| wolfspraul | #2 never go 'out of stock', whether rc3 or rc4 or ever, we must always be able to sell a 'video synthesizer' | 01:58 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: it changes by it self :) | 01:58 |
| wolfspraul | #3 improve rc4 as much as possible, make it the best possible product we can make | 01:58 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: isn't that pretty much "industry standard" ? | 01:58 |
| wolfspraul | #4 from a numbers perspective, I'd like to double the run size, i.e. from 80 to 160 | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think so | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe on 2mm PCB gfk | 01:59 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: who do you think should have a labsw? | 01:59 |
| wolfspraul | what is the future potential of the board? | 01:59 |
| wolfspraul | I'm wondering whether we should make a labsw before/during/after rc4 | 02:00 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: do you want to manufacture some labsw? :-) | 02:00 |
| wolfspraul | I pay, you export from Colombia to the world! :-) | 02:00 |
| kristianpaul | hum, interesting :) | 02:00 |
| wolfspraul | yes, I think technically it's within reach for you and the shops you have easy access to in Colombia, no? | 02:01 |
| kristianpaul | yes i can do all remotelly from home :) | 02:01 |
| kristianpaul | almost* | 02:01 |
| wolfspraul | my problem with labsw right now is that I don't fully understand who should have one, ideally, or what the long term potential could be | 02:02 |
| wolfspraul | definitely, that's the way to go | 02:02 |
| wolfspraul | and use local shops, whenever possible | 02:02 |
| wolfspraul | pcb, smt/dip | 02:02 |
| wpwrak | (labsw) adam should have one. after that, i don't care ;-) | 02:02 |
| wolfspraul | come on, be more visionaire | 02:02 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 02:02 |
| wolfspraul | no other usefulness? | 02:02 |
| kristianpaul | production side i see, and agree wpwrak | 02:03 |
| wolfspraul | I see I need to do the homework myself | 02:03 |
| wpwrak | oh, sure. but "productizing" it would be tricky | 02:03 |
| wolfspraul | read more about what it is :-) | 02:03 |
| wolfspraul | oh no, I don't want to productize it | 02:03 |
| wpwrak | e.g., you probably can't sell it as 220 V capable | 02:03 |
| wolfspraul | it works with 110v now? | 02:03 |
| wolfspraul | and only that? | 02:03 |
| kristianpaul | at least you want to sell a board to extress M1 | 02:04 |
| wpwrak | there's also the problem with sourcing case parts | 02:04 |
| wolfspraul | no need | 02:04 |
| wolfspraul | my current understanding is that it's just a hacker tool | 02:04 |
| wolfspraul | for use in production environment, of course | 02:04 |
| wolfspraul | or stress testing | 02:04 |
| wolfspraul | or whatever yet unthinkable use | 02:04 |
| wpwrak | (110 V) currently it's not designed to be suitable for voltages unsafe to touch. the coming design will be designed with 220 V in mind (with the usual safety margins, etc.) | 02:04 |
| wpwrak | but i have no clue what safety regulations would have to be observed to make it really marketable as 220 V-ready | 02:05 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: next version will allo to add temperature probes? | 02:06 |
| kristianpaul | that will be very usefull, all in a box | 02:06 |
| kristianpaul | no need for extra hubs or hacked usb cat5 adapters :) | 02:06 |
| wpwrak | for a usage point of view, i'd consider it "safe for ~30 VDC" and "can operate with 220 V, but treat the whole unit as if it was a live wire" | 02:06 |
| wolfspraul | come on, no safety regulations | 02:06 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: naw, no temp probes ;-)) | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | it's so amazing to me | 02:07 |
| kristianpaul | why?!! | 02:07 |
| wpwrak | wolfspraul: right, china :) | 02:07 |
| kristianpaul | :) | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | Chinese stuff is flooding the world | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | well, but better | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | its' flooding the world, right? | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | it's everywhere | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | and I know how it's made | 02:07 |
| kristianpaul | yeah | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | I feel it's like a global conspiracy | 02:07 |
| wolfspraul | on one side you have people who just totally don't care, don't know, dont' want to know, how they are randomly throwing shit together that maybe works or maybe not | 02:08 |
| wolfspraul | and they sell | 02:08 |
| wolfspraul | and on the other side you have those fine, sophisticated, suit-wearing and PhD possessing intellectuals | 02:08 |
| wolfspraul | that are debating about paragraph A.3 subsection 15.9, some tiny detail in their regulations | 02:08 |
| wolfspraul | but at home, everywhere in their lifes, they are using the crap from the monkeys | 02:09 |
| wolfspraul | what is going on??? | 02:09 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 02:09 |
| wolfspraul | it's hilarious to watch | 02:09 |
| wolfspraul | so whatever | 02:09 |
| wolfspraul | if you care about "safety regulations", then do so :-) | 02:09 |
| wpwrak | i think it's a question of exposure | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | I know one thing for sure - whatever you make will be 100 times more thought-through and more secure than a lot of things that are surrounding me and that I use every day | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | even if you think you are not meeting "safety regulations" | 02:10 |
| wpwrak | if we do something bad, we're easily exposed to the consequences | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | yeah yeah | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | I wouldn't touch anything metallic in CHina on the street | 02:10 |
| wpwrak | ;-) | 02:10 |
| wolfspraul | after you've watched the 'electricians' repairing stuff once, you won't | 02:10 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: I do not touch any wall in my building outside my apartment | 02:11 |
| zrafa | wolfspraul: I saw the electricians here as well :) | 02:11 |
| wolfspraul | I don't step on any drain covers on the streets either | 02:11 |
| wolfspraul | just as any chinese wouldn't | 02:11 |
| zrafa | and I am not in china | 02:12 |
| wolfspraul | because still so many people are badly injured and die from falls into crappy covers that are loose, breaking, flip over, etc. | 02:12 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: you need to show more leadership, for the good of the world. you are the 'safety regulation' | 02:12 |
| wpwrak | ;-)) | 02:12 |
| wolfspraul | 100 times better than any 'regulator' (read: totally incompetent bureaucrat) | 02:13 |
| wolfspraul | seriously, the system is broken. the regulation is just paper, totally meaningless except for the salaries of the people writing them, which are still real. | 02:13 |
| wolfspraul | we have to take care and make good stuff, and once we think it's good, it is. | 02:13 |
| kristianpaul | where is the plug to be pull? :) | 02:13 |
| wolfspraul | wpwrak: who do you think watches the consequences? :-) | 02:14 |
| wolfspraul | the regulators pouring over paper regulations? | 02:14 |
| wolfspraul | the factory workers? | 02:14 |
| wolfspraul | the business people selling what their workers produced? | 02:14 |
| wolfspraul | I think it's either you or nobody... :-) | 02:14 |
| wpwrak | well, one thing with high voltages is that i don't know that topic too well. i've been googling for the most obvious issues, but i may well be unaware of some others | 02:15 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 02:15 |
| wolfspraul | you never stop | 02:15 |
| wolfspraul | the fact that you even think that already makes the difference! | 02:15 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 02:15 |
| wolfspraul | anyway, just ranting, sorry | 02:16 |
| wolfspraul | reality is a funny game sometimes | 02:16 |
| wolfspraul | so... labsw only good for Adam? | 02:16 |
| wpwrak | plus, there are some compromises between safety and usability. e.g., the banana receptacles i use would be considered unsafe for the last 10-20 years | 02:16 |
| wpwrak | well, that's how many i plan to make :) | 02:16 |
| wpwrak | well, a 2nd one for myself, too :) | 02:16 |
| wolfspraul | what's the vision with this thing? | 02:16 |
| wpwrak | dunno. the electronics are be reproduced elsewhere. mechanics are a little harder. that is, front/rear panel and case | 02:17 |
| wpwrak | s/are/can/ | 02:17 |
| wolfspraul | I need to think about it more. | 02:17 |
| wolfspraul | where it fits in the Qi universe in the long run | 02:18 |
| wpwrak | (electronics) there are some electromechanical bits i'm not entirely happy about. e.g., the relays can be socketed. but the sockets are a sourcing problem. | 02:18 |
| kristianpaul | automate for sure | 02:18 |
| wpwrak | kristianpaul: it;s either labsw or throwing the power switch ~30'000 times ;-) | 02:19 |
| kristianpaul | oh yes :) | 02:19 |
| wolfspraul | I had a power strip once with built-in http server and remote control etc. | 02:20 |
| wolfspraul | forgot the brand, some German thing | 02:20 |
| kristianpaul | i was thinking too in remote control of a future M1 freedom box as rejon called | 02:21 |
| kristianpaul | ah yes that above | 02:22 |
| kristianpaul | but why not temp sensor wpwrak ? :) | 02:23 |
| kristianpaul | or i'm missing a i2c port somwhere ... | 02:23 |
| wpwrak | what would be the use of knowing the temperature inside the labsw ? | 02:23 |
| kristianpaul | no no, room temperature | 02:24 |
| wolfspraul | could labsw control a temperature chamber? | 02:24 |
| wpwrak | well, that should be similar. labsw shouldn't get very warm | 02:24 |
| kristianpaul | why? well check this freaking expensice thing http://www.nagios.org/products/environmental/esensors | 02:24 |
| kristianpaul | expensice/expensive | 02:25 |
| wpwrak | (temp chamber) you would probably start with the chamber, then add a controller | 02:25 |
| kristianpaul | cost same as M1 i cant beleive it | 02:25 |
| wpwrak | pricy :) maybe you can make one with a button cell and wpan :) | 02:26 |
| kristianpaul | wpwrak: hey wait, what about temp control for reflow process or something in a obven perhaps? (dunno how is that really usefull in SMT) | 02:26 |
| wolfspraul | kristianpaul: you need to get over pricey being bad | 02:26 |
| wolfspraul | a business creates value, so it can reinvest that money into more progress, more value | 02:27 |
| wolfspraul | the more it can charge, the better, even for its customers :-) | 02:27 |
| kristianpaul | yeah, they feel better etc.. :) | 02:27 |
| wolfspraul | nah it's not that simple | 02:27 |
| kristianpaul | ah :) | 02:28 |
| wolfspraul | if you don't trust the business on the other side, maybe you should not buy from them at all | 02:28 |
| wolfspraul | everybody will be better off... | 02:28 |
| kristianpaul | (reinvest) yes thats very important | 02:33 |
| Action: DocScrutinizer calls it a day | 02:45 | |
| wolfspraul | n8 | 02:46 |
| wolfspraul | you might call it 2 days as well :-) | 02:46 |
| kyak | xiangfu: (building on 32bit host as well) - thanks! | 07:19 |
| kyak | though the only thing needed frmo 32bit host is the SDK and Toolchain tarballs :) i don't think it makes sense to provide two different images | 07:21 |
| xiangfu | kyak, I am working on it. already build. | 07:21 |
| xiangfu | kyak, yes. agree. | 07:21 |
| xiangfu | kyak, checkout: build.openmobilefree.net | 07:21 |
| kyak | cool, it started building :) | 07:22 |
| kyak | not without errors though | 07:23 |
| xiangfu | kyak, it is all same with the fidelio.qi-hardware.com. only it is 32bit. | 07:23 |
| kyak | yep, i see | 07:23 |
| xiangfu | I meet some errors. I will fix today. | 07:24 |
| xiangfu | I will buy two hard disks recently. my host don't have much space now. after build the openwrt full_system it maybe 90% used. :) | 07:25 |
| kyak | you are blogging to much ;) | 07:28 |
| xiangfu | backup my laptop hard disk :) | 07:29 |
| xiangfu | and the problem is laptop 500GB, Server 160GB :) | 07:30 |
| kyak | i thought everybody is keeping their stuff on a Cloud already :) | 07:33 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: add recently new packages (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e75b38e | 08:12 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: config.full_system: sort all sections (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3d86754 | 08:12 |
| blogic | tuxbrain: my package just arrived :) | 09:31 |
| blogic | hope i find the time to start playing with the dongles | 09:31 |
| blogic | ... on the weekend | 09:31 |
| wolfspraul | blogic: thanks for buying stuff from Tuxbrain! :-) | 09:36 |
| blogic | haha | 09:36 |
| wolfspraul | yes! | 09:36 |
| wolfspraul | :-) | 09:36 |
| blogic | its nice to see that the usb part of the dongle is a meag32u2 | 09:37 |
| blogic | wpwrak: you made these dongles, right ? | 09:39 |
| blogic | as in the atusb 802.15.4 thing | 09:40 |
| wpwrak | ah yes, guilty as charged ;-) | 09:48 |
| blogic | nice | 09:48 |
| wpwrak | glad you like them ! :) | 09:52 |
| wpwrak | blogic: you got a pair of atusbs ? | 10:00 |
| wpwrak | or atben+atusb ? | 10:01 |
| blogic | a pair | 10:02 |
| blogic | i have no nano note | 10:02 |
| blogic | i want to pair 2 openwrt devices | 10:02 |
| blogic | i have a spare tpl1043 and rspro | 10:02 |
| blogic | so i will probably use those 2 units | 10:03 |
| wpwrak | any specific application in mind ? | 10:05 |
| blogic | not sure | 10:08 |
| blogic | i was contacted by a few italians that wanna play with this stuff | 10:08 |
| blogic | and asked for me to port the drievrs and apps to openwrt | 10:08 |
| blogic | so i said, sure send me hw pr0n | 10:09 |
| wpwrak | heh, nice :) | 10:09 |
| jow_laptop | kyak: you should maybe backport the latest opkg fix from trunk, the current version contains a double free which may lead to a seg fault with a corrupted status db on certain package removal operations | 10:27 |
| kyak | jow_laptop: thanks for notifying; that would be pretty easy, since we are on trunk already.. Just a matter of catching up with trunk svn | 10:29 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: optimize for ben nanonote (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/42cfc61 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: [xburst] Improve mounttime (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/c389527 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote optimize (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/03f9977 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: add kernel patch for setfont2 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b5a9c9a | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: optimize for ben nanonote (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b274721 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: config-2.6.37: enable battery, disable RNDIS (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/948a9cc | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: patches-2.6.37: support for Ben NAND partitioning (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/1fdde47 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] David Kühling: linux kernel: add CONFIG_PROC_PAGE_MONITOR=y to allow for clean user-space DMA (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/9048c19 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: config-2.6.37: enable options needed for keymouse (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/252345f | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: trunk: fix kernel keymap for VolUp/Down and Del (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/75e7b56 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: trunk: build sound modules in kernel (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2d62caf | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: trunk: add ks7010 support patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cd6e232 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: base-files, move it to openwrt-package/nanonote-files (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/0eb17f7 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: Disable syslogd and klogd (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/0e98cca | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: update to 2010.06 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/67e619e | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: busybox: backport reverse history search patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/f718120 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: enable-silent-console.patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e956c56 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot silent console (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e64b1c6 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu Liu: ben nanonote: forward patches to linux-3.0 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/bfd4625 | 10:37 |
| qi-bot | [commit] kyak: kernel-3.0: add fbcon color fonts patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/87387eb | 10:37 |
| kyak | cool, all patches rebased on top even without conflicts | 10:38 |
| wolfspraul | kyak: thanks for helping, as usual! | 10:39 |
| kyak | wolfspraul: it's my pleasure to do at least something useful :) | 11:03 |
| kyak | i haven't been very active recently after changing my job.. | 11:03 |
| kyak | this employer sure does know how to make me busy | 11:04 |
| wpwrak | kyak: you gave up a job that let you do whatever you want pretty much 100% of the time ??! | 11:12 |
| wolfspraul | kyak: he, understand :-) but I'm not so worried about slow, as long as we keep chugging away things will be fine | 11:28 |
| wolfspraul | and slowly but surely the software on the Ben actually becomes usable :-) | 11:28 |
| Ayla | hi | 11:30 |
| Ayla | how can I copy a full directory with /usr/bin/install from a makefile? | 11:31 |
| jow_laptop | $(CP) ... ... ? | 11:33 |
| Ayla | is that a clean way to do it? | 11:35 |
| Ayla | everything seems to use $(INSTALL) instead | 11:35 |
| jow_laptop | depends | 11:35 |
| jow_laptop | many openwrt packages use $(CP), especially in conjunction with PKG_INSTALL as the inner Makefile takes care of moving files to the right palces with correct permissions then | 11:36 |
| Ayla | I'm using buildroot :) | 11:36 |
| jow_laptop | buildroot follows the same principle | 11:36 |
| Ayla | $(CP) is not defined here | 11:36 |
| jow_laptop | ok, then the answer is you can't | 11:37 |
| jow_laptop | afair you can use wildcards to install more than one file | 11:37 |
| Ayla | that would be surprising | 11:37 |
| Ayla | ah, ok | 11:37 |
| jow_laptop | e.g. install foo/* target/foo/ | 11:37 |
| Ayla | but here the 'foo' directory has subdirs... | 11:38 |
| jow_laptop | well, bad luck ;) | 11:39 |
| jow_laptop | afaik install is not meant for recursive operation | 11:40 |
| jow_laptop | either name each dir explicitely or use some find | xargs construct or use cp | 11:40 |
| Ayla | meh. | 11:40 |
| Ayla | I'll just use cp then | 11:40 |
| kyak | wpwrak: yeah, basically i did what you said :) | 12:02 |
| wpwrak | got tired of living in paradise ? :) | 12:02 |
| kristianpaul | brbr 19°C and cold mornings again | 13:45 |
| kristianpaul | but is nice i want do something usefull today ;) | 13:46 |
| kristianpaul | cool 0,0041 error% now one more flip flop and i guess will be enought | 17:40 |
| wpwrak | it's kinda scary that you approach the correctness of register accesses with statistics ... :) | 17:43 |
| kristianpaul | oops, how i should then? | 17:48 |
| wpwrak | it should just work 100% ;-) | 17:49 |
| kristianpaul | ah sure ! | 17:49 |
| kristianpaul | I'm on that, my concern still :) | 17:49 |
| larsc | wpwrak: all modern memory is based on statistics | 17:51 |
| larsc | probability theory is right word i guess | 17:52 |
| wpwrak | larsc: flash is evil ;-) | 17:56 |
| larsc | harddisk use similar algorithems | 17:57 |
| larsc | and even ram does | 17:57 |
| kristianpaul | he, well hardisk are always dying is it? :) | 17:58 |
| wpwrak | ECCs are like safety belts. they're good to have, but if your actions depends on them being there, you're probably doing something very wrong :) | 18:00 |
| larsc | uhm, all modern memory uses some kind of ecc | 18:03 |
| larsc | otherwise you wouldn't be able to get such high densities | 18:04 |
| wpwrak | oh, they have ECC (well, most do). but few depend on it as extensively as flash. particularly NAND flash. | 18:08 |
| wpwrak | not sure about what disks do internally, though | 18:09 |
| larsc | sure? | 18:11 |
| wpwrak | and in any case, there are parts of a system that are generally considered error-free. registers of local peripherals tend to be among them. | 18:12 |
| larsc | you can stop progress ;) | 18:13 |
| wpwrak | well, look at the data sheets. NAND is only guaranteed after ECC. NOR without. DRAM is very often even used without any error correction. | 18:13 |
| larsc | i was more thinking about hdds | 18:14 |
| wpwrak | ah, dunno about HDDs. they do it the way i like it - present a nice and fairly reliable interface, keep the quantum physicals out of my view :) | 18:16 |
| larsc | hehe | 18:16 |
| wpwrak | s/physical/physic/ # gah | 18:17 |
| kristianpaul | weee, i listened a noaa satellite, now be prepare to record, what was that sox command? | 18:21 |
| kyak | hm. i'm playing with Ben under Windows right now by chance. Since there was no luck using RNDIS, it was disabled at all. Now i'm trying with linux-cdc-acm.inf | 18:24 |
| kyak | now i have the COM6 device named "Gadget Serial" | 18:24 |
| kyak | it seems running fine - i.e. Windows doesn't report any error codes | 18:24 |
| kyak | but i try to connect to COM6 with putty, and get "Unable to open connection" | 18:25 |
| kyak | i wonder what is this driver even doing... | 18:25 |
| kyak | it seems like USB serial | 18:25 |
| kyak | but what needs to be done from Ben's side to accomplish it? | 18:25 |
| kyak | kernel doc says that i need to have either RNDIS or CDC ECM. This is already accomplished since RNDIS configuration is disabled in linux kernel | 18:26 |
| kyak | and i can't have both on Windows | 18:27 |
| kristianpaul | ah, rec :) | 18:27 |
| kyak | i would expect linux-cdc-acm.inf to create a network interface instead of some non-working serial// | 18:28 |
| kristianpaul | kyak: Great !! so just enable gadget serial when compiler kernel and done? | 18:29 |
| kristianpaul | i guess the ethernet usb must be disabled? | 18:30 |
| kristianpaul | over usb* | 18:30 |
| kyak | this IS ethernet over usb :) | 18:30 |
| kristianpaul | ahh | 18:30 |
| kristianpaul | ;) | 18:30 |
| kyak | at least when i plug Ben in on LInux | 18:30 |
| kyak | hold on, i'm reading http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/gadget_serial.txt | 18:30 |
| kyak | it seems that i should have a serial interface on Ben's side now | 18:31 |
| C-Keen | you will get both, a host and a target serial device | 18:31 |
| kristianpaul | thasts why i was asking :) | 18:31 |
| kristianpaul | oh | 18:31 |
| kyak | how do i know the name on target? | 18:31 |
| kyak | it has a bunch of /dev/tty* devices | 18:31 |
| kyak | dmesg is not very usefull | 18:32 |
| C-Keen | kyak: some ttyU0 or something there? If not check the module options and the driver docs | 18:32 |
| kristianpaul | /dev/ttyS2 or P2? perhaps | 18:32 |
| kristianpaul | ah | 18:32 |
| C-Keen | might as well be ttyUSBsomething | 18:33 |
| C-Keen | this should be the name on the host. *or* if it has anything in common with g_printer, which I have worked on lately it will be g_serieal | 18:33 |
| C-Keen | serial | 18:33 |
| C-Keen | this gadget stuff is still a bit a mess | 18:34 |
| kyak | there are tty[0-9][0-9], ttyS[0-1], ttyp[0-1] | 18:34 |
| kristianpaul | same here | 18:34 |
| kyak | so it wasn't created then | 18:34 |
| C-Keen | is there a udev running? | 18:34 |
| kyak | nope | 18:35 |
| kyak | i'm not sure if there is any | 18:35 |
| kyak | there is udevtrigger and hotplug2 | 18:36 |
| kyak | though hotplug is probably for network stuff | 18:36 |
| kyak | could it be that i'm confusing ACM with ECM? | 18:37 |
| kyak | it should be ttyGS0 | 18:37 |
| C-Keen | get the major / minor from sysfs and mknod it yourself | 18:38 |
| kyak | it's not in sysfs either -\ | 18:38 |
| kyak | i can try the major/minor from the doc though | 18:39 |
| C-Keen | the driver is loaded and it is not in sysfs? | 18:39 |
| kyak | well, i'm looking in /sys/class/tty/ - is that right? | 18:40 |
| C-Keen | I am not sure. I will check tomorrow at work, if your problem still persists ping me again in 13 hours or later ;) | 18:41 |
| kyak | ok, if i have windows in 13 hours :_) | 18:42 |
| kyak | http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/gadget_multi.txt | 18:46 |
| kyak | also a good reading | 18:46 |
| kyak | it says CDC ECM should work with CDC ACM inf file? | 18:47 |
| kyak | CONFIG_USB_G_MULTI is not set - probablt this explains.. | 18:48 |
| whitequark | screen -rD | 19:43 |
| whitequark | oops. | 19:43 |
| qi-bot | The build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-10162011-1650/ | 21:31 |
| --- Tue Oct 18 2011 | 00:00 | |
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