#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-10-12

solrizehey is openssl on the nanonote?  can someone run "openssl speed rsa1024" and paste the output?  thanks!08:04
rejon_solrize, yes it is09:16
rejon_solrize, great to get you using a nanonote :)09:16
jow_laptopxiangfu: to make udhcp send the hostname, simply add "option hostname whatever" to /etc/config/network file12:41
jow_laptopwithin the config interface lan section12:41
xiangfujow_laptop, oh. yes. thanks12:42
xiangfuthen I need send another patch to upstream. :)12:42
xiangfuI will do that. 12:43
xiangfujow_laptop,  by the way I have send some naonote linux 3.0 patches to openwrt mailing list. so far no one reply. maybe you can take a look of those patches. it compile fine(the buildhost build it everyday :) 12:43
jow_laptopI think its up to larsc to integrate those12:45
jow_laptopthats why nobody else replied12:45
jow_laptopdoes not mean they're wrong or not appreciated, just that the platform maintainer did not react yet12:45
xiangfuok. 12:46
jow_laptopI can take a look of course when I find time12:46
xiangfuthanks.12:47
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/plot-cdf: added option -i to interpolate empirical results (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/13479e112:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/plot-corr: make scatter plot of time between corruptions (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/bb2589312:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/Makefile (list): remove the -stat suffix (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/ffe45cb12:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/Makefile: target "tar" to collect raw data files needed for further analysis (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/1c331b312:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/plot-corr: options -n and -i to set samples and interval (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/36b52a912:51
xiangfuC-Keen, I am creating one package frotz-games that include all your list zcode games. :)13:16
xiangfudownload and test in nanonote now.13:17
C-KeenI don't have it with me atm but will gladly do so later13:17
xiangfuC-Keen, LostPig.zblorb Savoir-Faire.zblorb give me error 'Fatal error: Unknown Z-code version' 13:22
xiangfuC-Keen,  anchor.z8 give Fatal error: Illegal opcode13:23
xiangfuphotopia.z5 vgame.z8 awaken.z5 adverbum.z5 works just fine.13:24
xiangfuC-Keen, sure, take your time.13:25
C-Keenxiangfu: I wonder whether they are in the correct format. I will come back to you with a solution13:26
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: frotz: add 4 zcode games (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f5a7f9413:26
C-Keen4 games are a start :)13:27
xiangfuC-Keen, yes.13:27
xiangfuC-Keen, if you find the game is works fine and license is ok. you can just upload them to : http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/frotz/files13:28
xiangfuthere are quit a lot games : http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/  :)13:29
C-Keenyep13:30
C-Keenand each year there are a couple of new games13:30
C-Keensee ifcomp.org for the ongoing competition13:30
xiangfucool13:32
C-KeenI love those :)13:37
wolfspra1lC-Keen: are those new games typically free? is there awareness for the need to specify licenses, or people just upload their stuff without much attention to licenses?13:39
C-Keenwolfspra1l: there is only a rule about that which might be a bit vague: All entries must be freely playable by judges, no strings attached. While you retain the copyright to any games you enter, by entering you are granting the competition and the Interactive Fiction Archive the non-exclusive right to distribute your game for free, and granting judges the right to play your game for free. No shareware, donorware, commercial products, etc. may be entered.13:43
wpwrakso IFA would have to acquire qi-hw and all ben users would have to become judges, and we'd be almost there ;-)13:45
C-Keenor I can try to mail authors and ask them for permission13:45
C-Keensome of them might still be reachable13:46
C-Keenwolfspra1l: The files and games on the archive14:01
C-Keenmay not be compiled for commercial distribution without permission14:01
C-Keenfrom each and every author of the files you would like to14:01
C-Keendistribute. Note that commercial distribution includes selling games14:01
C-Keenor game compilations on online auction sites.14:01
C-Keendoes preflashing in on a nanonote qualify as commercial? I'd say yes14:01
C-Keens,in,it14:01
wpwrakNC licenses are so much fun :) (and yes, that would qualify. even including it in the official distribution for later upgrades should be considered that way)14:05
C-Keenso I suggest that you withdraw these games again as much as I like them14:05
C-Keenthe legal status is too vague14:06
C-Keenyou could add a readme and point people to the archive of course14:06
wpwraki think the correct approach is to ask the authors and include only those where you get a favourable answer. not sure what licensing terms wolfgang would consider acceptable. i guess he'd prefer the simplicity of public domain, CC0, or WTF ;-)14:13
C-KeenI am sorry for having cause so much trouble14:15
wpwrakpity that there doesn't seem to be open source14:15
wpwraki don't think there's been much trouble. licensing issues are daily business ;-)14:16
C-Keenfor example the game adverbum contains a license that it needs explicit permission from the author to be distributed by other means than ifarchive or the author's website14:16
C-Keenwpwrak: well xiangfu already has comitted some games :/14:16
C-Keenthe awakening seems to be ok wrt license14:18
C-Keenbut that seems to be the only one :/14:20
C-Keenwolfspra1l: ^ 14:20
jow_laptopyou could include a downloader instead14:20
jow_laptopsome choice list + wget download script14:21
jow_laptoplike msttcorefonts are handled on major distros14:21
C-Keenyeah that's no problem14:23
wpwrakdownloaders are tricky, too. in general, automated inclusion should be considered the same as actual inclusion. except for cases where it merely enforces some click-through license.14:23
jow_laptopk14:23
wpwraknot that i'd expect trouble with those games. but, for example, if this was for, say, an H.264 or MP3 decoder, it would be dangerous14:24
wpwrakbecause those who style themselves "rights owners" could argue that this makes the "illegal" offer part of the whole product. and they could use this to, say, get things banned from distribution, import, etc.14:26
wpwrakprojects that produce only software downloadable from all over the internet are of course pretty immune to such threats. nobody will go after the meager pockets of some hacker in a distant country, not even "pour encourager les autres" (*)14:27
wpwrak(*) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pour encourager les autres14:27
wolfspra1lC-Keen: no problem, then we remove all others but awakening14:36
wolfspra1land we contact the authors about public domain / cc0 / cc-by / cc-by-sa etc.14:37
wolfspra1lC-Keen: you are not causing any problems btw. the links to ifarchive/ifcomp are great14:40
wolfspra1lunfortunately they don't care much about licensing other than their own needs, but there may still be good stuff there, we just need to do a little more homework14:40
C-Keenall is well then14:40
wolfspra1labsolutely14:40
wolfspra1lall is well14:41
C-Keenwhich reminds me to setup the cross compilation toolchain finally for a port of the chicken scheme compiler14:41
solrizehey wolfspra1l did you ever hear from sparkfun.com about them selling the nanonote?  they emailed me that they were going to look into it14:48
wolfspra1lsolrize: oh nice, thanks a lot for advocating this!14:49
wolfspra1lno I did not hear from them14:49
wolfspra1land from my perspective, my outside understanding of the sparkfun business, I think it would not fit14:49
wolfspra1lI think I also emailed them once or so, many moons ago - no response14:50
wolfspra1lwhich confirmed my suspicion that it's a mismatch14:50
solrizeoh well14:50
wolfspra1lbut I'm open minded, and it's great that you ping them too14:50
solrizehow about thinkgeek.com?14:50
wolfspra1lmy understanding of their business is a guess14:50
wolfspra1lhave never tried thinkgeek14:51
solrizeit was just a thought14:53
wolfspra1lyes, it's good14:54
wolfspra1llike I say: thank you for helping!14:54
solrizenp14:54
solrizeare you still planning a YA?14:55
wolfspra1labsolutely14:56
solrizecool14:56
wolfspra1ljust keep in mind we play for the long run here14:56
wolfspra1lI think Ben NanoNote develops very well14:56
solrizeit would be nice to have a microsim slot14:57
wolfspra1lnow Milkymist One, my second product. it interacts with the NanoNote in some ways in the future, which ways exactly is not clear yet :-)14:57
solrizehehe14:57
wolfspra1lmicrosim for 3g ?14:57
wpwrakthinkgeek may be a slightly closer match. the ben is actually a bit between the two. thinkgeek is more about geeky end-user products. so the ben may not be polished enough. while it may be considered too polished for sparkfun. tricky ;-)14:57
solrizemicrosim for security coprocessor14:58
wolfspra1lcan you be more specific technically?14:58
wolfspra1lwhich coprocessor do you have in mind?14:58
solrizemaybe basiccard.de at first but the idea is to have a generic slot14:59
solrizebasiccard.com14:59
solrizethe idea is to run gnupg on the nano with the keys on the sim15:02
solrizeanother interesting product might be a server version of the nano... basically a nano w/no keyboard screen or battery, perhaps 4 or 8 of them on a single board15:08
solrizewith an ethernet port and built in switch15:09
solrizei've been messing around with ultra cheap vps hosting (lowendbox.com)15:09
solrizeand sometimes you really want a physically separate server that doesn't have to be powerful15:10
DocScrutinizermicrosim port for this purpose is way to specific. I'd suggest a USB host port with a USB microsim dongle15:56
DocScrutinizerif you build the USB into a bay to avoid protruding parts when dongle got plugged, this could be a very rugged and useful design15:56
DocScrutinizerwait, PC-card slots come with a USB port afaik15:57
wpwraksounds all very bulky15:58
DocScrutinizerso a PC-card -> generic USB receptacle adapter might be a friggin nice "peripheral"15:58
Action: DocScrutinizer looks at all his USB dongles and thiks most of them are all but bulky15:59
DocScrutinizerseems a length of 40mm excl plug * 18mm * 9mm is pretty much a defacto standard formfactor16:01
DocScrutinizerthough some storage sticks are like 56mm long16:02
DocScrutinizerstill < 9mm * 18mm, so such a stick would protrude from that bay a 16mm16:03
wpwrakergo such a thing wouldn't really fit _inside_ a future nanonote16:04
Action: DocScrutinizer registers patent of a sliding USB receptacle, to both slide out dongles to pull them and also protrude "shirt" dongles just enough to expose LEDs etc16:05
DocScrutinizershort*16:05
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: I stopped censoring my ideas ruled by some case designer's idea of the product's formfactor, when I seen gta03 go down basically for "WHAT?! 5mm longer?"16:08
DocScrutinizerbtw I really warned Tully about exactly that would happen when he contacted me about that +5mm idea16:09
DocScrutinizerIt still hurts I missed to utter a "toldya!"16:11
wpwrakyeah, but here's it's more like 5 cm ;-)16:11
wpwrakyou can still send him a mail :)16:12
DocScrutinizer5cm?? err - your next device is meant to be 15*15*15mm?16:13
wpwraktaking into account that is should contain more than just your internal USB bay ;)16:14
wpwrakand yes, 15mm cubed would be pretty cool ;)16:14
DocScrutinizerif that case is at least 60mm wide and 12mm thick, then I can't see such a bay adding anything more than a 20mm height16:15
wpwrak20 mm !!16:15
wpwrakwhy not a 19" rack ? ;-)16:16
DocScrutinizermeh16:16
Action: DocScrutinizer runs to sell his patent to Nokia rather than wasting it here16:16
wpwraknew market niche: portable computes to sell at fitness studios ;)16:17
Action: DocScrutinizer registers a sequel patent: dual use for the bay: audio transmission line16:18
DocScrutinizeror reflex volume16:19
DocScrutinizeraka closed chamber16:19
Action: DocScrutinizer waves16:20
rjeffriesthis talk might be interesting: http://ossg.bcs.org/2011/10/17:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/2/upset: take address and value from command-line; report outcome (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/d6e1e8b17:43
viricthe milkymist takes only 5W?18:19
viricimpressive.18:19
kristianpaulviric: considering that this fpga actually aparently dont do too much power saving yes :) 20:03
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-10112011-1539/20:11
virickristianpaul: the fpga or the circuit there programmed?20:47
kristianpaulviric: last one i guess. tought i havent readt too much about powersaving in fpga20:48
viricok20:48
viricI imagine it's about keeping lines steady20:48
kristianpaulbut seabiesten saids short cirtuits are very common :)20:48
kristianpaulinside it20:48
kristianpaulsebastien*20:48
viric'short circuit', meaning, circuits too short?20:49
viricor some other meaning?20:49
mthit means it has too little resistance, like when you accidentally connect two paths that shouldn't be connected20:52
virican abnormal situation then20:53
mthyes, I think the term is only used for when bad things happen20:53
mthsome stray solder or wire connecting +5V to ground, for example20:54
viricyes, clear.20:57
virica current circuit made too short, compared to how it would be if working fine20:58
mthyes20:58
viricI don't really get that about FPGAs then; bad manufactured? Bad units?20:58
mthI don't know how they work internally; maybe bad programming can create short circuits21:00
viricinteresting.21:00
viricI've always worked with fpgas at the level of expecting "they work fine, only me introduces problems" :)21:01
kristianpaulhttp://www.media.mit.edu/events/medialabtalk/21:20
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