#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2011-10-01

DocScrutinizervbus=3.3V --- see definition of OTG session. >>small world and it smells funny, I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money"02:59
DocScrutinizerA small world and it smells bad, I'd buy another if I had --- Vision Thing03:01
wpwrak(otg) ah, tell me ? does 3.3 V do something "magical" >03:02
DocScrutinizernah, I think ~4V do sth magical03:02
DocScrutinizerthen also 0.8V and some dunno Volt do something03:03
wpwraknice. the goal is then to have one codepoint every 100 mV ? :-)03:03
DocScrutinizerthere are like 3 thresholds for VBUS voltage, 3V3 is clearly outa range03:03
wpwrakyeah, i was thinking more of the non-standard but common case that you just LDO those 5 V down to 3.3 V. your logic probably works at 3.3 V anyway03:05
wpwrak(simple USB devices, of course)03:05
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.stericsson.com/technical_documents/CD00222700.pdf  8.7.2 VBUS comparators03:05
DocScrutinizer The ISP1704A minimum threshold for the VBUS valid comparator is 4.4 V. Any voltage on VBUS below this threshold is considered invalid.03:07
wpwrakwow. fancy signaling indeed.03:07
DocScrutinizerThe session valid threshold of the ISP1704A is between 0.8 V to 2.0 V.03:08
DocScrutinizerThe session end comparator determines when VBUS is below the B-device session end threshold of 0.2 V to 0.8 V. The B-device uses this threshold to determine when a session has ended.03:08
wpwrakso a "B-device" has its own power ? or can it sensibly buffer power received from the other device ?03:10
DocScrutinizerB has no own power03:10
DocScrutinizerthat's the def of B afaik03:11
wpwrakthen it has to buffer .. or run on a very very low voltage :)03:11
DocScrutinizer(unless it's OTG and wants to initiate HNP)03:11
DocScrutinizer(we exploited HNP for hostmode on N900 before we got our shit sorted)03:12
DocScrutinizer>>I've seen the best of man go past; I don't wanna be the last<<03:14
DocScrutinizergnite o/03:15
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: reverse solipsism ? :)03:22
DocScrutinizermeh, just give "vision thing" a try03:31
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sisters+of+mercy&aq=f  and  http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sisterhood&aq=f03:35
DocScrutinizerhow's Zecke?03:35
DocScrutinizeractually http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sisterhood+gift  - to get rid of pr0n and dunno what03:42
grvrulzhello everyone! I'm pl'anning to buy a nanonote. I was wondering if one can change the keymap to dvorak, coz i'm used to it and cant use qwerty efficiently.03:53
DoctorJeepit's linux04:00
wolfspraulgrvrulz: hi welcome!04:00
grvrulzwolfspraul: hi :)04:00
wpwrakgrvrulz: the physical layout, not really. (that is, you can cut the existing one into pieces and glue them together in a different way, but that's messy at best)04:00
DoctorJeepo/ wolfspraul 04:00
wolfspraulchanging the software should be easy, and if you need help we surely will do it together, and feed it back into our images04:00
wolfspraulyeah, changing the hardware (physical keys) - I'd say 'no'04:00
wpwrakgrvrulz: and wolfgang already answered the logical layout ;-)04:00
grvrulzwpwrak: I cud use stickers04:00
wolfspraulthey will come off04:01
wpwrakah, maybe that works04:01
wolfspraulmy very first business as a 15-year old was to sell stickers to change keyboard layouts from German into Russian :-)04:01
wolfspraulI had a nice cutting tool made, but the problem was the glue04:02
DoctorJeepglue improved a lot since04:02
wolfsprauloh don't let me stop you04:02
grvrulzdoes it follow the debian pattern of settings? I mean i should find the keymap setting in some rc file?04:04
wolfspraulunfortunately I don't know exactly where they are, and xiangfu who might know is offline over the Chinese holidays04:05
wolfspraulbut some googling may help, as we had this discussion several times04:05
wolfspraullemme see :-)04:05
wolfspraulok if you google for 'nanonote change keymap' you find a number of sites talking about it04:05
grvrulzwolfspraul: i found some.. I'll go buy it n start hackin then04:07
grvrulzwolfspraul: DocAvalanche wpwrak : thank you for the help :)04:08
wolfsprauloh he left so quick04:27
wolfsprauland now even xiangfu is there :-)04:27
wolfspraulxiangfu: happy holidays!04:27
DocScrutinizerisn't it fun? Nokia rolls out a N9 with an OS that'S actually good ol' maemo but hey think they need to call it meego. Then 1 day later intel announces meego is dead ;-P04:31
wolfsprauldid you read about Tizian yet?04:32
DocScrutinizersure I did04:32
wolfsprauland the latest twist, metemi or something?04:32
DocScrutinizermelt-me err meltemi - a meamo-lite04:33
DocScrutinizeror QtMoko04:33
wpwraki actually have a good feeling about all this04:33
wolfspraulfree software is setup to benefit from chaos04:34
wpwrakit shows us just how visionary we were at openmoko ! radical gui u-turns every ~6 months. see, now also the big guys are doing it. we were pioneers !!04:34
DocScrutinizerwell chaos there's plenty04:34
wolfspraulif the chaos is driven by clueless management with still too much money, please please, by all means: SPEND IT! :-)04:34
Action: DocScrutinizer wipes away a tear from laughing04:35
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: I actually think you're the first one to have a good feeling abut all that madness - it's quite exhilarating04:37
wpwraklet's see ... how many GUI iterations did we have ? first, there was ... om2007 (?) with the big round black button with an orange wheel that wasn't a scroll wheel. with all the textures and fancy rendering one could possibly imagine. nimble as a beached whale.04:38
wpwrakthat one was hard to kill. eventually, o-hand did it. and they made something very lean (good) and not comprehensive for mere homo sapiens. alas, our user base wasn't given the time to evolve into this one ...04:39
xiangfuwpwrak, seems GUI is big problem in all Linux base system. :)04:39
wpwraknext up was Qtopia, closely followed by an external parallel Android port04:40
DocScrutinizerandridiot \o/04:41
DocScrutinizerbut back when it was actually cool to see it running on OM hw04:41
wpwrakand then, finally raster's e*. i actually don't remember why qtopia was binned. maybe lack of control.04:42
wolfspraulnever ask why04:42
DocScrutinizeraka OM2008 ?04:42
wolfspraul(I also don't know, but too clear memories about the reasoning (or lack thereof) behind decisions makes my mind refuse to go there :-))04:43
wolfspraulright DocScrutinizer ?04:43
DocScrutinizerI think it must still ripe on some 5 ..7 devices here04:43
wolfspraulthe only man to stand up in a room of 30+ people and declare something along the lines of "for this nonsense you don't need me"04:44
wpwrakraster's stuff may have been great ... if he had been given a bit more artistic freedom. he may have his set of crazy ideas, but he also sees pretty clearly what works and what doesn't. alas, his task was to implement what clearly doesn't work ...04:44
wpwrakwow ;-)04:44
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: (nonsense) seems I was right, no?04:45
wolfsprauloh yes, totally04:46
wolfspraulnot only factually (engineering-wise), but also on the impossibility of finding any remedy, i.e. leaving was indeed the best remaining option04:46
wolfspraulhardware development and manufacturing is indeed a tricky beast04:48
wpwrakah, sweet memories :) well, i have to hit the sack. got a major barbecue today, with something like 17 people.04:51
DocScrutinizerI'm afraid I'll need my sunglasses if I stay any longer04:52
wolfspraulwpwrak: wow, enjoy04:52
Action: DocScrutinizer waves04:54
wolfspraulwpwrak: labsw comes out a bit strange http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/labsw/05:45
wolfspraulbefore I dig deeper - did you try it locally? I am using -S, no -f or --order05:47
wolfspraulI point to labsw/labsw.sch05:48
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09302011-0420/08:29
Artyomkristianpaul look at the http://gnss-sensor.com/ Very interesting idea. They implement acquisition and tracking inside hardware (FPGA for example) without external cpu. The same approach as I've already pointed you on http://code.google.com/p/cu-hw-gps/ 11:57
wpwrakwolfspraul: (labsw) thanks ! where is the strangeness ? at a fist glance, it looks quite reasonmable11:57
wolfspraulmaybe the strangeness is in my iceweasel12:35
wolfspraullemme try chromium12:35
wolfspraulwpwrak: looks the same. maybe this is on purpose now?12:36
wolfspraulthe columns seem mixed up12:37
wpwraklooks good in konqueror .. let's see with firefox ...12:41
wpwraklooks good there, too12:41
wpwrakor do you mean the order of he columns ? (i.e., you'd expect "labsw" to come before the others, or such)12:41
wolfspraulwpwrak: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/wolfgang/tmp/labsw_sshot.jpg12:46
wolfspraulzoomed out but you see all sheets and get the idea12:46
wolfspraulis that how it's supposed to be?12:46
wpwrakoh, that looks wrong indeed12:47
wpwrakseems that these browsers suppress columns with just the vertical bar inside12:47
wpwrakdo they get any of the other schhists right, atusb for example ?12:48
wpwrakah, found it ;-)12:48
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: schhist/schhist2web: > was missing in IMG tag for unchanged.png (vertical bar) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/41a65ca12:50
wpwrakplease update :) konq and firefox are just a little too good at fixing HTML bugs :)12:50
wolfspraulk will try, great!12:54
Action: kristianpaul click13:15
kristianpaul32 channels, wow13:20
kristianpaul64 bits specialized procesor :)13:31
kristianpaulArtyom, is this place where you work? ;)13:56
qwebirc68379hi I would connect nannote openwrt to my ubuntu laptop13:57
qwebirc68379I am using swat13:57
kristianpaulbut i agree, implement acquisition and tracking as hardware/firmware is a way to go13:57
qwebirc68379ping is fine13:57
kristianpaulhello qwebirc68379 13:57
qwebirc68379using squid proxy13:57
qwebirc68379hello to all13:57
qwebirc68379the squid.conf has been modified 13:58
qwebirc68379as indicate con qi-hardware wiki13:58
qwebirc68379On nn13:58
kristianpaulwhere is indicated?13:58
qwebirc68379I set up export http_proxy13:58
kristianpaulare you installing debian on the nn?13:59
kristianpaulyes, export should work13:59
qwebirc68379but I am using the same gearings for openwrt14:00
qwebirc68379and should work again14:00
qwebirc68379The Debian installer loads all installation data over the internet. Configure your Desktop PC to allow the Nanonote's Ethernet-over-USB interface access to the internet. A simple way to do that via NAT-forwarding is described here. As an alternative to NAT, you could install the squid proxy on your Deskotp (which is somewhat safer security-wise). On the Desktop, type:  sudo apt-get install squid  Then uncomment the follow14:00
kristianpaulwhat are you looking exactly? configure a http proxy in you nanonote so opkg could work?14:01
kristianpaulopkg and others programs of course14:01
qwebirc68379I did it14:01
qwebirc68379here you are the output14:01
qwebirc68379just wait for a while14:01
kristianpauloutput of?14:01
kristianpaulSorry, i'm lost, what are you trying to do?14:01
qwebirc68379ssh on nn14:02
qwebirc68379the set up http_proxy on nn14:02
kristianpaulok, what about telnet first?14:02
qwebirc68379no I did not14:02
qwebirc68379I did it a just a ping14:02
kristianpaulping from ... to .. ?14:02
qwebirc68379from both sides14:03
qwebirc68379from unbuntu to nn14:03
qwebirc68379from nn to ubuntu14:03
qwebirc68379and it works fine14:03
kristianpauland it works OK ?14:03
qwebirc68379No it does not14:03
qwebirc68379that is why I am here14:03
qwebirc68379first step sudo ifconfig usb0 up14:05
qwebirc68379on ubuntu14:05
qwebirc68379once squid has restarted with squid.conf wiki-modified14:05
qwebirc68379second step on ubuntu laptop ssh -l root
qwebirc68379the on nn terminal I type export http_proxy=
qwebirc68379is it correct14:10
qwebirc68379ping works fine on nn14:11
qwebirc68379but opkg update does not work14:11
qwebirc68379ping www.hotmail.com does not work on nn14:12
qwebirc68379do I have to modify resolv.conf on nn?14:13
qwebirc68379I am using a usb dongle on ubuntu14:13
qwebirc68379for the Internet connection14:13
qwebirc68379Is it useful the squid log?14:14
qwebirc68379any hints?14:14
qwebirc68379Am I clear?14:18
kristianpauli think it should be export http_proxy=
kristianpaulresolf.cong not related tot his14:19
qwebirc68379I will try to follow this link for ubuntu http://www.ubuntugeek.com/setting-up-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-server-with-squid-3-as-a-transparent-proxy.html14:23
kristianpaulqwebirc68379: just curios, you have this proxy on your own laptop right?14:24
qwebirc68379yes sir14:25
qwebirc68379I try to use squid 3 istead of squid 214:25
qwebirc68379as indicated in the link for ubuntu14:25
qwebirc68379No sir14:29
qwebirc68379Now I am modifing the /etc/squid3/squid.conf on ubuntu with14:29
qwebirc68379http_port 3128 transparent14:30
qwebirc68379acl our_networks src acl localnet src http_access allow our_networks http_access allow localnet14:30
qwebirc68379and it shold work after a restart14:30
kristianpaulOkay, if the proxy is not in your laptop you could try to setup a brower in that ubuntu, and make sure it work there first14:30
qwebirc68379so in other words what could I do on ubuntu14:34
qwebirc68379what program do I use?14:34
qwebirc68379is there a guided interface?14:34
qwebirc68379This is the output of squid14:36
qwebirc683792011/10/01 16:35:16| WARNING: Netmasks are deprecated. Please use CIDR masks instead. 2011/10/01 16:35:16| WARNING: IPv4 netmasks are particularly nasty when used to compare IPv6 to IPv4 ranges. 2011/10/01 16:35:16| WARNING: For now we will assume you meant to write /3214:36
qwebirc68379even with squid3 does not work on nn14:42
qwebirc68379only ping works14:42
qwebirc68379I do not know what to do14:56
kristianpaulqwebirc68379: first make sure your proxy works in nother not device, no the nanonote14:59
kristianpaulsorry i nevr had setup a quid proxy from scratch so i cant help too much on it :)15:00
wolfspraulwpwrak: after updating eda-tools, eeschema now gets stuck in the X server with "File <--plot=ps.sch> not found."15:03
wolfspraulmaybe we updated the kicad patches as well and the server is behind? will check tomorrow. the joys of updates ;-)15:04
qwebirc68379now it works15:11
qwebirc68379with export http_proxy= no " or ' no http://15:12
kristianpauloh, ok :)15:13
wpwrakwolfspraul: sounds as if you had fallen back to an unpatched version15:21
qwebirc68379I would know if it is possible to use a lighter openwrt festival (probably flite) with russian cyrillic words?15:21
qwebirc68379it is the latest openwrti15:22
qwebirc68379I updated it yesterday 15:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: there's only one change to the patches since your last one: from march 14, 984a6de70ac5d9247a022875b622a5453c08e49e15:24
wpwraki don't see it affect --plot, though. and i've used --plot=ps recently. (well, the makefiles i used recently use --plot=ps somewhere deep down :)15:26
wolfspraulok I will check15:31
qwebirc68379Is it possible to use gftp to tranfer file to qtdict on nn?15:35
qwebirc68379I would add some russian dictionarie...15:35
qwebirc68379thanks to all for your patience15:39
qwebirc68379Now I have to go15:39
Clik-EAhola, alguien habla espaƱol?17:45
kristianpaulClik-EA: si17:50
kristianpaulClik-EA: tienes un nanonote? :)17:51
Clik-EAando buscando un experto en laptops17:53
kristianpaulhum ..17:53
Clik-EAeste canal que temas se tratan?17:53
kristianpaulCopyleft hardware17:53
kristianpaulClik-EA: http://qi-hardware.com17:54
Clik-EAentonces debe de haber algun experto en reparacion a laptops aqui17:55
kristianpaulno creo ;) pero uno nunca sabe17:55
kristianpaultalves estas buscando el canal #hardware ?17:55
kristianpaulaqui tenemos expertos en Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb, milkymist, labsw 17:56
kristianpaulArtyom, http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/GPS/Main.htm18:59
kristianpaulamazing, even the fron-ent diy18:59
kristianpaullink via dsptb at #labsurlab19:00
kristianpaulhe works listening to satellites, so he tought i would like that link ;)19:00
ArtyomKristianpaul, oh, source code is released now :) But very little comments...20:43
wolfspraulkristianpaul: nice projects from Holme http://www.holmea.demon.co.uk/Projects.htm22:40
wolfsprauldo you know how well he publishes/documents his works? is it all open?22:40
wolfspraul(too lazy to click through, maybe you already know :-))22:40
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