| Action: kristianpaul biking around | 00:23 | |
| kristianpaul | oops | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| folkz0 | hey | 07:01 |
| folkz0 | anybody in here awake i have a serioius hardware question | 07:01 |
| folkz0 | server related | 07:01 |
| wolfspra1l | awake yes, but server question, let's see... | 07:01 |
| folkz0 | good finally | 07:02 |
| wolfspra1l | wait until you hear "don't know" :-) | 07:02 |
| wolfspra1l | shoot your question... | 07:02 |
| folkz0 | ok heres the example say we had 2 xeon dual core processors and 1 desktop core i7 quad core proccesor | 07:02 |
| folkz0 | same clock same ram speed etc | 07:02 |
| folkz0 | now say we had a program that fully utilizies quad core and all it's features, basically makes use of it | 07:02 |
| folkz0 | wouldn't the server system with 2 dual cores perform better then the single quad core | 07:03 |
| wolfspra1l | hypothetical questions, don't we love them... | 07:03 |
| folkz0 | a single die cpu with 4 cores would be using up all it's caches within each other | 07:03 |
| folkz0 | 2 seperate die cpu's would have more space | 07:03 |
| folkz0 | but then somebody else mentioned the issue about the latency | 07:03 |
| wolfspra1l | I'd say that depends very much on who designed the board and the many details that make up the eventual performance of your server application | 07:03 |
| wolfspra1l | so the answer is no answer | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | the latency shouldn't be that big of a impact | 07:04 |
| wolfspra1l | best is to try and compare :-) | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | thats what i said | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | but i mean | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | i guess on paper wouldn't the cache | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | have effect | 07:04 |
| wolfspra1l | imho you cannot predict how all these things work together | 07:04 |
| wolfspra1l | that's probably harder than trying your actual load and comparing | 07:04 |
| folkz0 | well if anybody can care to jump in | 07:05 |
| folkz0 | the latency might be a little higher, but again the design of the board, regardless of that | 07:05 |
| folkz0 | wouldn't those extra 2mb caches being split up by 2 cores instead of 4 | 07:05 |
| folkz0 | give some notieable performance or is it no for both statements | 07:05 |
| wolfspra1l | if you have to pick one system and cannot afford to compare with the other one, pick the cheaper one | 07:05 |
| folkz0 | i could have sworn i read extra cache helped | 07:06 |
| folkz0 | no i'm not buying anything | 07:06 |
| folkz0 | i'm trying to prove a dispute | 07:06 |
| folkz0 | and this information | 07:06 |
| folkz0 | would be beneifical as well | 07:06 |
| wolfspra1l | sounds like :-) | 07:06 |
| folkz0 | xeon proccesors can communicate to each other | 07:07 |
| folkz0 | i7's can't | 07:07 |
| wolfspra1l | in my experience you cannot easily calculate the performance difference | 07:07 |
| wolfspra1l | but that's not what you need, you need something to settle the dispute | 07:07 |
| wolfspra1l | buy a bottle of wine, get drunk, dispute solved | 07:07 |
| folkz0 | i get it you dont know | 07:07 |
| folkz0 | man anybody awake | 07:07 |
| folkz0 | ;x | 07:07 |
| folkz0 | i'm bored | 07:12 |
| wpwrak | wolfspra1l: bah, his problem had a simple answer ;) if the system with more cache is already fully loaded and uses exactly _every_ bit of resources, going to a different system will slow you down :) | 10:30 |
| wpwrak | wolfspra1l: alas, the same is true for the system with less cache, as long as it's better in some other regard (e.g., communication latency) | 10:31 |
| wpwrak | wolfspra1l: thus both lose their bet ... and you get the wine ;-) | 10:32 |
| wolfspra1l | wpwrak: well, of course he dismissed my good faith answer. it's a typical question of people who just pick a fight over something, too little practical problems to take care of :-) | 11:26 |
| wolfspra1l | once you are down to such details, on any production server, you cannot tell in advance. That's my experience. so pick the cheaper system, and done. | 11:27 |
| wolfspra1l | and if it's so important, compare both systems with real load in advance (though that will rarely be economical) | 11:27 |
| wolfspra1l | 2 dual core xeon vs. 1 i7 quad, with some cache differences etc. - bah | 11:29 |
| wolfspra1l | try the load | 11:29 |
| wolfspra1l | the boards probably designed by two different companies, different chipsets, different memory, etc. | 11:30 |
| wolfspra1l | what a question | 11:30 |
| wolfspra1l | reminds me of those card games I played in school, with cars, motorcycles, airplanes etc. where various specs won over each other :-) | 11:31 |
| wpwrak | yeah, of course. the question was nonsensical as asked | 11:36 |
| wpwrak | (card games) ;-)) | 11:36 |
| wpwrak | those were nice. one i remember was with ships. beat a carrier with a speedboat :) | 11:37 |
| wpwrak | roh: by the way, why choose acrylic over polycarbonate ? PC should be lots cheaper than acrylic. is it too brittle ? | 11:43 |
| wpwrak | roh: and another question: can you also "print" something with a laser cutter/engraver ? i.e., not just make a groove, but change the color (e.g., transparent to black) | 11:47 |
| rjeffries | free open FPGA tutorial http://www.xess.com/appnotes/FpgasNowWhatBook.pdf | 16:06 |
| rjeffries | he also has XuLa a $70 USD little FPGA dev board http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php | 16:06 |
| Ayla | rjeffries: note that there's also the XuLa-50 which is cheaper | 16:07 |
| Ayla | $40 | 16:07 |
| rjeffries | Ayla cool. is that from the same guy? he makes everything free and open as best I can tell | 16:08 |
| qi-bot | The build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-09112011-0411/ | 16:08 |
| Ayla | rjeffries: yes, see http://www.xess.com/prods/prod047.php | 16:11 |
| wpwrak | wolfspra1l: how do you see the possibility of shortening things like http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ at some point in the future ? e.g., dl.qi-hardware.com/p/ ? | 16:15 |
| wpwrak | ... /p/werner/, of course | 16:15 |
| wpwrak | alas, i made the mistake of not simply picking "w". that would already have saved 5 characters | 16:16 |
| wpwrak | trimming downloads and people would save 12 characters | 16:17 |
| wpwrak | of course, URLs into git are still much worse ... | 16:18 |
| kristianpaul | i think there is already a qi-hw.com | 16:25 |
| wpwrak | yes, but i don't think it does anything. at least i haven't found any useful url so far that wouldn't fail if changing qi-hardware to qi-hw | 16:27 |
| wpwrak | (i usually check this before complaining, just in case :) | 16:27 |
| roh | wpwrak: i think pc was bad to get and it doesnt cut well with a laser | 16:32 |
| roh | i think it was too 'thermoplastic' ... it melts at much lower temperatures.. ah.. and i cannot cut anything emitting chloride vapour... | 16:33 |
| wpwrak | roh: ah, i see. odd. pc should be a lot more common than acrylic. | 16:33 |
| wpwrak | open the window ? ;-) | 16:33 |
| roh | because that vapour will not only be bad for me but also the machine. it corrodes the mechanics and is bad for the optics. | 16:33 |
| wpwrak | yeah, the cutter may dislike it a bit. that is, if a significant amount of Cl is actually liberated. | 16:34 |
| roh | i know nobody who puts stuff containing cloride into his cutter | 16:36 |
| wpwrak | so just milling then | 16:36 |
| roh | for pc? yes.. but actually it depends on what i need to do. | 16:37 |
| wpwrak | actually, are you sure that they add Cl to PC ? i couldn't find any reference | 16:40 |
| wpwrak | or do you mean PVC ? | 16:40 |
| roh | same game | 16:41 |
| roh | ah. could be.. not sure entirely (just awoke from a long night after a long party) | 16:42 |
| wpwrak | ;-) | 16:42 |
| roh | anyhow.. pc isnt avail in colors by choice. | 16:42 |
| wpwrak | i see Cl only in the maufacturing process, but not in the final product | 16:42 |
| roh | and material costs are not important compared to the machine running cost anyhow | 16:42 |
| lekernel | roh, where did you party? :-) | 16:48 |
| roh | stattbad | 16:49 |
| roh | always a lot of fun if you got a clubmarke and your own 'backstage' | 16:50 |
| wpwrak | interesting according to wikipedia, PC is more expensive than acrylic. hmm. | 16:50 |
| roh | eh whut? funny | 16:50 |
| wpwrak | yeha, i'm not quite sure i belive this just yet :) | 16:51 |
| roh | me neither.. i thought pc is what the coca cola bottles are made from. or was the PET` | 16:53 |
| wpwrak | may be PET | 16:54 |
| lekernel | ah, another one of those berlin clubs that never tell you the price of the entrance in advance. it's only after you've traveled x kilometers to get there that you know. how annoying. | 16:54 |
| roh | ? | 16:54 |
| roh | its not a club. and the price is different every time | 16:55 |
| wpwrak | hm, accordig to at least one shop, acrylic is indeed a little cheaper than PC: http://acrylicparts.com/lexanprice.html http://acrylicparts.com/acrylicprice.html | 16:55 |
| lekernel | depending on how you look? :-) | 16:55 |
| roh | no. depending on the group organizing it. | 16:55 |
| lekernel | well... they put flyers online for each party, why the heck don't they write the price on it? | 16:56 |
| wpwrak | and acrylic can be injection molded, too. excellent. seems that i have a winner :) | 16:56 |
| roh | well..if i can injection-mold.. i would use abs+pc | 16:56 |
| roh | because its 'schlagfest' | 16:56 |
| lekernel | this seems to be an annoying Berlin specialty... | 16:57 |
| wpwrak | we'll need that for the death metal edition of M1 ;-) | 16:57 |
| wpwrak | specs: "must survive impact of fists, boots, musical instruments" | 16:58 |
| lekernel | wpwrak, next version will be probably encased in metal :-) | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's punk | 17:01 |
| lekernel | (next major one) | 17:01 |
| lekernel | like mixing consoles etc. | 17:01 |
| wpwrak | metal would be nice. a lot more stage-proof :) | 17:02 |
| wpwrak | roh will need a mean laser then, though. or bring the mill back up :) | 17:02 |
| lekernel | I think CNC and a bending machine are more appropriate there | 17:04 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: hmm, i wonder if any of the wilder styles refrains from smashing their instruments. well, at least they should be relatively safe with ambient and synthpop ;-) | 17:04 |
| lekernel | how are mixing console enclosures manufactured? | 17:05 |
| lekernel | they look like bent/drilled metal to me... | 17:05 |
| wpwrak | lekernel: benging machines sound interesting. i have no idea about that technology. | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually are | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | good ole blacksmith business | 17:06 |
| wpwrak | yeah, ancient | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | simple steel folding machines (err tools) can be found in virtually each steel workshop | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | then usually you do "pulverbeschichtung" after drilling & folding | 17:11 |
| wpwrak | what does that do ? | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulverbeschichtung | 17:12 |
| wpwrak | ah, coating | 17:13 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: labsw/README: described situation with respect to high voltage (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/b2c8481 | 17:47 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: m1rc3/norruption/LOG: latest result (showing failure to reproduce NOR corruption) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/165d799 | 17:47 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: labsw/fw/labsw.c: improved debouncing and cleaned up button logic (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/a400f9a | 17:47 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: labsw/README: all opto headers need wider spacing for high voltage (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/f9c4bb6 | 17:47 |
| qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: labsw/web/: Web-based overview page (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/28cdb89 | 17:50 |
| roh | lekernel: mixing consoles etc are usually stamped out metal sheets, then folded and pulverized.. as werner said | 18:12 |
| roh | stamping is much cheaper than milling or drilling | 18:12 |
| wpwrak | the pulverizing came from joerg | 18:13 |
| roh | ah. sorry ;) | 18:13 |
| wpwrak | i wonder if we can mill a usable stamp | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way | 18:13 |
| roh | well.. i think so. atleast on our mill. (use hardened steel and active flood cooling) .. but we havent done that yet | 18:13 |
| roh | DocScrutinizer: you should visit us at the congress (we will keep raumfahrtagentur open this year) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure if I join congress this year | 18:14 |
| roh | already mounted the first canvas for the beamers, second one will follow soon. | 18:15 |
| roh | meh. storm (tm) http://www.t-online.de/wetter/info/niederschlagsradar.html | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, we're talking about that event between xmas and new year? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | (storm) here as well | 18:16 |
| Action: DocScrutinizer runs closing windows | 18:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | YAY | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 18:18 |
| Action: DocScrutinizer away for dinner, hoping to arrive at pub dry | 18:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.unwetterzentrale.de/uwz/getwarning_de.php?xpos=250&ypos=190&bland=bayern&lang=de | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | too late :-/ | 18:26 |
| roh | ;) | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | FSCK, that's been the last hour of my DSL modem | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the differential current switch and fuses were ok after refenabling them, and TV survived too :-) | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | alive again \o/ | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, first time the lightning hit my own house | 19:53 |
| roh | DocScrutinizer: uh. everything ok? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | halfway back to normal, both my ears and nerves, and the infra | 20:15 |
| roh | uh. lucky.. usually quite some infra gets fried on real direct hits | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZyXEL DSL exploded | 20:15 |
| Action: roh already exchanged complete streets of ntba after only one house got hit | 20:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | has loose parts inside now | 20:16 |
| roh | heh. propably the overvoltage components *g* | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | some dimmers fried, here as well as some hoses away | 20:16 |
| roh | dsl/landline equipment has often even 'spark-gaps' on the pcb. be sure to take a look if you're nosy | 20:16 |
| roh | you're insured? or only cheap small stuff? | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it really stinks and got *very* hot while all LEDs were dead | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got no ensurance | 20:17 |
| roh | mmh. | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | gonna get me dinner now, finally | 20:18 |
| roh | :) have fun. food is good for the nerves *g* | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | then back to switching from PC driven PPPoE to a proper router setup | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks and o/ | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's been rather ok, I planned to hit this ZyXEL P660 with a sledgehammer since long | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I lured the lightning with my green laser - it *worked* X-P | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | (for those curious: ionizing effects on air need a bit more energy than a 200mW laserpointer can drive) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it hit the house, not my hand with laserpointer ;-) | 20:22 |
| roh | 20:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sub-elipsis statement? | 21:37 |
| wpwrak | DocScrutinizer: (laser) see, it hit the house because it wasn't powerful enough :) | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and it took 20s to ripe, after I stopped beaming up | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I'm not sure it was our house, or the neighbour 20m right or left | 22:15 |
| wpwrak | pretty potent then | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I'm sure the lightning didn't come from where I pointed at with the laser, but rather from the "backside" of our house | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | (potent) it killed a dimmer 60m away across the street | 22:16 |
| wpwrak | wow, you have realtime monitoring of all the dimmers in your street ? | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | only of those in my fav pubs ;-) | 22:18 |
| wpwrak | so the emergency evacuation procedure is to leave home and go to the pub ? sounds nice :) | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, yes :-D | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the fact I was about to leave for dinner when I posted [2011-09-11 20:26:01] <DocScrutinizer> too late :-/ | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 5..10min later lightning stroke, so I thought it's be best to finally get dinner after I checked there's no hidden fires anywhere in the house | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, NFC what blew up in this POS ZyXEL | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | BWAHAHAHA red water from the tap | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems the lightning properly cleaned all the rust out of the tubing | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already wondered which obscure path the lightning took from our 150yo house's roof down to the ground | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems now I got a clue | 22:35 |
| wpwrak | nice clean water ... soon :) | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | now for the tedious d-link config | 22:41 |
| Action: DocScrutinizer wonders if it might be simpler to access the config webpage of dlink router via WLAN rather than via a temporary set up wiring and network IP addr | 22:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 22:48 |
| --- Mon Sep 12 2011 | 00:00 | |
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