#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-08-16

qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Updated modules/INFO and modules/Makefile for ssop.fpd (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/57d235600:10
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Added PIC18F46J50 (28QFN) symbol (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/f0ad80700:10
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: Enable the SDL timer subsystem only if the backlight timeout is enabled. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/e282f8a00:19
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: GMenu2X does not need to init the audio subsystem of SDL. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/bffef7c00:19
xiangfu_Hi there are 'pending' message in mailing list. I just approved some of them, I saw the message in 'Archives' do we will receive those email ? seems not. I still not receive them.01:31
wpwrakxiangfu_: from Uli Raich ? i got them01:35
wpwrak(three of them)01:35
xiangfu_oh. then my network is very slow. :(01:36
wpwrakand an old one from Jedidiah Johnson01:36
xiangfu_still not get them. yes three from Uli, and one message that reply to you 01:36
xiangfu_oh. yes01:36
wolfspraulxiangfu_: just wait a little01:42
rejonxiangfu_, 01:43
rejoni need to clone you01:44
kristianpaulseems xiangfu is not the only with net problems today01:44
rejonmy net in beijing working well today01:44
kristianpaulipv6/4 or tunnel to the US?01:44
kristianpaulbtw how i can tell grep to match regexp just from the begining?01:46
kristianpauli'm using $ but i think is not working01:46
wpwrak^ is beginning $ is end01:48
kristianpaulhe ;)01:48
kristianpauloh, i can use regex on vim/ex/sed too?01:53
kristianpaulwell not going yo try that today01:53
kristianpauland the prn_key_enable was the missing register to care about..01:56
wpwrakkristianpaul: sed, grep, vi, perl, ... :)02:08
kristianpaulNOT to alarm everybody here, but i think i fully understand that meaning of the dimly led, but my case with D1, as just five minutes ago my m1 after plugging power wasnt detected by urjtag and i just noticed D1 slighlt dim 02:41
-:#qi-hardware- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp03:46
wolfspraulhmm, back03:47
kristianpaulyou did something?03:47
wolfspraulprobably Hetzner (the server hosting company) is upgrading routers03:47
wolfspraulnot yet :-)03:47
wolfspraulkristianpaul: you said namuru is working now?03:48
kristianpaulif acuumulators show something that changes over time i should said yes is working :)03:48
wolfspraulcongratulations! sounds like progress :-)03:49
kristianpaulof sure, bit a bit..03:49
kristianpaulbut i'm working on it ;)03:49
kristianpaulhe interesting wikipedia article, brought trought pikik stats https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_NO-OS_and_Open_Source_Laptop_Manufacturers03:52
kristianpaulnow i'm wondering if qi-hardware is on europe..03:53
kristianpaulactually should i said china or world wide?03:53
wolfspraulkristianpaul: what a list :-)03:57
kristianpauli stop reading when saw hp there..03:58
wolfspraulI think we are on a good track. new and different understanding of the hardware-software boundary, definition of copyleft hardware that leads to a new lineage of computing03:58
wolfsprauloh that list is wonderful, totally messed up :-)03:58
wolfspraulit shows one thing above all - confusion03:58
kristianpaulviric: page downd http://vicerveza.homeunix.net/~viric/cgi-bin/nanonixos/ ?03:59
wolfspraulbut that's ok, we are also still confused, but working on clarity03:59
kristianpaulxiangfu: in can i avoid to commit certain lines of a file?04:02
xiangfukristianpaul, no.04:03
kristianpaulI'm just added some test points to my designa at the same time i want commit other changed and dont want to messup more commit log with two comments in same commit04:03
kristianpaulxiangfu: a shame ;)04:03
kristianpauljust kidding,  i need to improve my developing practices :)04:03
kristianpaulthere is a quit way to add commit from vi... hum it should be..04:04
kristianpaulbah, what plugin if i can alwayys do !whatever :)04:10
kristianpaulxiangfu: when i want to be a bit expensive in the comment for a commit i just ran git commit and start writing right?04:13
xiangfugit commit -a or git commit FILE04:13
xiangfuor git commit -a -m "commit log" 04:13
kristianpaul.a ok04:14
kristianpaulno no, i want avoid write all down in that ""04:14
kristianpaultoo short :)04:14
xiangfuEDITOR=vim git commit FILE :D04:20
GitHub191[milkymist] kristianpaul pushed 3 new commits to gps-sdr-testing: https://github.com/kristianpaul/milkymist/compare/5ac6a7d...d4b632605:40
GitHub191[milkymist/gps-sdr-testing] Blocking to Non-blocking assignment - Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas05:40
GitHub191[milkymist/gps-sdr-testing] load PRN key/set clear flag added to accumulator/status loop, - Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas05:40
GitHub191[milkymist/gps-sdr-testing] sample enable signald wired to high, prn key enable is now cleared in every clock cycle [HACK] - Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas05:40
wpwrak(vendors) no tuxbrain ? aww ...05:41
Aylais errno always set by ioctl()?06:34
Aylaor are there cases where it is not set?06:34
wpwrakhmm, if python can't be fixed, maybe we can call the upcoming owrt release a "technical release", that isn't recommended for general use13:28
wpwraknot having python seems like a major regression. i'm not surprised that people hate the idea :)13:28
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes they do :-)13:32
wolfspraulbut the reality is that we may need to kick out a lot more broken stuff, and should13:32
wolfspraulthe alternative is that our releases slow to a halt, we don't even have enough time to update the kernel, etc.13:32
wpwrakit's also a communication problem. xiangfu basically wrote "python has issues, so we'll drop it. basta." that's not nice13:33
wolfspraultrue, but he toned it down from what I told him to get my point across :-)13:33
wolfspraulbut yes I agree, it's a subtle13:34
wpwrakyou should try to be a better example :)13:34
wolfspraulthe reality is that the NanoNote is a very very niche platform, I think one could even make that point about all of OpenWrt, but that is kept alive due to the routers13:34
wolfspraulso we have to be careful13:34
wpwrakdvdk seems to be on it. so let's see13:35
wolfspraulto make it through the Android dark age, I think we need to be very selective in only the best and stable free software we are able to maintain13:35
wolfspraulonce more people join, we need the documentation and tools ready to welcome them and guide their contributions13:35
wpwrakwell, but python is pretty essential these days13:35
wpwrakkicking it out is a bit like not having bash (to many people at least)13:36
wolfspraulyes sure13:36
wolfspraulI would kick that out too if it caused problems :-)13:36
wolfspraulit's just thought from result backwards13:36
wolfspraulwhat are we able to pull off?13:36
wolfspraulI'm not getting stuck in wishful thinking13:36
wolfspraulI told xiangfu that I have no problem going back to a boot to command line ;-)13:37
wolfsprauljust rip everything out that doesn't work13:37
wpwraka bit radical :) but okay for a technical release13:37
wolfspraulcall it whatever you like13:38
wpwrakjust don't make people think this is what they should install in general13:38
wolfspraulsuch nuances are lost in our small community, those few people will happily take whatever we are able to build13:38
wolfspraulI need to uptick the buildhost too13:38
wolfspraulxiangfu told me something about scary 31h compile cycles13:38
wolfspraulmost important I think is closely following openwrt upstream13:39
wolfsprauland then especially making sure the Ben kernel patches stay clean, get upleveled within openwrt and also to kernel.org. make sure lars is not alone, find out how we can help there.13:39
wpwraki don't think they're lost. just say "we followed the release process, but there are these regressions, so please only install it if you're okay with them or want to help fixing. for the rest of you, please be patient, we're working on making things better."13:39
wolfspraulthat's my lifeline13:39
wolfspraulnot Python13:39
wolfspraulPython comes next13:39
wolfspraulyes definitely, totally agree with you13:39
jivswpwrak,  I am trying to setup the ben-wpan using qi-kernel and rootfs. I have copied the binaries to ben 14:17
jivsbut when i run iz add wpan-phy0 i am getting this error: Receive failed: Netlink Error (errno = No such device)14:18
jivsAm i missing any obvious step? what does this error indicate?14:18
wpwrakjivs: does your kernel detect the board ?14:21
jivs spi_atben spi_atben: atben_reset14:23
jivs saw this on dmesg14:23
jivsi think it means it detects, isn't it?14:23
wpwrakthat looks at least promising. what does   dmesg | grep at86rf231   say ?14:24
wpwrakshould be: at86rf230 spi32766.0: Detected at86rf231 chip version 214:24
wpwrak(or similar)14:24
jivsyes i got that14:26
wpwrakokay, then iz add should work. hmm. how did you configure your kernel ? or did you take a precompiled one ?14:26
jivsnow, i am using the precompiled one14:27
`antonio`wpwrak, I don't have any result from dmesg | grep at86rf23114:27
`antonio`does that mean that my kernel was not built properly14:28
wpwrak`antonio`: that's bad. do you get any for  dmesg | grep at86rf230   ?14:28
wpwrak`antonio`: could be a kernel configuration problem, yes14:28
`antonio`nothing from dmesg | grep at86rf23014:29
jivswprak now it registered the device14:29
wpwrakjivs: you mean "iz add" worked ?14:29
jivsis it necessary to reboot after installing ip and ldconfig14:30
wpwrak`antonio`: then you kernel doesn't seem to have the driver14:30
jivsyes it works now,14:30
jivsbecause i rebooted it after that error and now it is working 14:30
wpwrakjivs: shouldn't need a reboot, but you never know :)  if this happens again, iz listphy   should list the available interfaces14:30
`antonio`wpwrak, I am following these instructions http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/install/INSTALL-Ben14:31
`antonio`how do I check if the kernel has is properly configured ?14:31
jivswprak thank u. 14:31
`antonio`and the patch was applied 14:31
wpwrak`antonio`: which patch ?14:32
wpwrak`antonio`: what does  ls /sys/devices/platform/  show on your ben ?14:33
wpwrakjivs: you're most welcome :)14:33
`antonio`gpio-charger.0    jz-udc            jz4740-codec      jz4740-i2s        jz4740-pcm-audio  matrix-keypad     pwm-beeper        serial8250.0      spi_gpio.114:33
`antonio`gpio-keys         jz4740-adc        jz4740-fb         jz4740-nand.0     jz4740-rtc        power             serial8250        soc-audio         uevent14:33
`antonio`line 16 - 17 apply the configurations and patch right? http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-wpan/source/tree/master/install/INSTALL-Ben#L1614:35
wpwrakah yes, these are the config and a hack that's needed to make openwrt boot14:37
wpwrakwhat does  git branch -a  say ?14:38
wpwrakthe "ls" doesn't show spi_atben, so there's definitely a lot missing14:38
`antonio`wpwrak, master14:40
`antonio`no wait,14:41
wpwrak`antonio`: in the kernel tree ? should say   * ben-wpan14:41
`antonio`* ben-wpan14:41
`antonio`  master14:41
wpwrakand then some more, including "master", all the others without asterisk14:41
`antonio`yeh and all the rest14:41
wpwrakyou're using the openwrt toolchain ?14:42
`antonio`master 14:42
`antonio`i'll show u the kernel instructions I am following 14:43
wpwrakhmm, i'm not sure the "make vmlinux.bin" does what you want14:45
wpwrakmaybe try  make -e vmlinux.bin14:45
wpwrakor if this acts weird,  make ARCH=$ARCH CROSS_COMPILE=$CROSS_COMPILE vmlinux.bin14:50
wpwrakwhen compilation is done. check   grep ATBEN .config14:51
wpwrakshould say  CONFIG_SPI_ATBEN=y14:51
`antonio`ok i'll try again14:52
rjeffrieswpwrak your suggestion that the new Ben release be called e.g. a technical release is sound IMO. Losing Python (while admitedly temporary) is removing a significant mainstream capability. 14:53
rjeffriesand no, I am not qualified to help. //that's for my pals kristianpaul and rejon /smile/14:55
wpwrakwolfspraul: you'll like this (apple vs. samsung): http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/107599/apple-levert-onjuist-bewijs-in-zaak-tegen-samsung.html15:02
wpwrakwolfspraul: apparently, in their petition (?) for the preliminary injunction, they changed the aspect ratio of the image of the galaxy tab, making it a bit more similar to the iPad15:03
erikkugelYes, and of all countries to do it in, Apple had done this in Germany, where they are really serious about their measurements...15:04
wpwrakhehe, yes :)15:04
wpwrakmaybe it's like in the movies. they bad guys compulsively have to do evil, even if it clearly works against them ;-)15:11
kristianpaulwha heppended?15:23
kristianpaulsorry at office today, i'll read backlog at lunch :)15:23
wpwrakkristianpaul: you know that apple got a preliminary injunction in germany against samsung, restricting sale of the galaxy tab ?15:25
wpwrak(that happened a few days ago already)15:25
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/qfn.fpd: added paste island ratio calculation, with NXP recommendations (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/d04a71415:29
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/qfn.fpd (QFN28-MCHP-ML): footprint for Microchip 0.65 mm 28QFN package (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/0f1829b15:29
jivswpwrak, it is now working with our own root file system as well15:35
jivsthanks alot15:35
wpwrakjivs: congratulations ! :)15:36
jivsthank u15:36
wpwrakoh, even better. apple also removed the "Samsung" logo, to suggest the device was intended for portrait orientation, while it's apparently more meant for landscape. a chance in aspect ratio could perhaps be explained away, but removal of a logo ? well, the judge still has a few days to think of a commensurate response :)15:45
kristianpaulwpwrak: no i dint knew that15:45
kristianpaulin mind my the only hot news was goolgle motorla bought15:45
wpwrakyeah, gootorola is the other recent big news15:47
kristianpaulwpwrak: they could hate not having python but i wonder if the really we're using it..15:48
kristianpaulactuaylly this "kick" will be good to see more people intrested in python15:50
wpwrakhehe :)15:50
kristianpaullike porting pygames or such or anything usefull15:50
wpwraki think the python issue is just a glitch. apparently, wolfgang told xiangfu to just go ahead if something doesn't work. and he presented it as if he himself would brazenly drop things that get in his way. subtle twists in communication :)15:52
kristianpaulrjeffries: what's is that meastrame capabillity? having a python partially working is not15:52
kristianpaulglitch, ahhh15:52
kristianpaulalso i recall again, i havent seen a _really_ usefull work of python on the nanonote, besides been there15:53
kristianpaulof course i talk about an aplication that requires it :)15:54
`antonio`wpwrak, thanks that solved everything 16:28
wpwrakgreat ! glad that it works :)16:28
wpwrakdo you have atusbs as well, or just atbens ?16:29
`antonio`yeh but i didn't put my hands on the kernel yet i'll let you know when i'll get that working 16:30
wpwrakatusb may be a bit more trouble (to use) until i've fixed the long delays. kernel configuration shouldn't be a bigger issue than with atben, though. the main obstacle there is probably to get a kernel that boots on the PC at all :)16:32
kristianpaulgood excuse to buy another ben and use it as atben bridge :)16:40
wpwrakyeah :)16:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: added option -p to show the path to the file (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/45031eb16:56
virickristianpaul: yes, I configured the router bad. Let me fix it17:01
virickristianpaul: I should think of taking down my website from time to time... A few hours not working bring me totally unexpected messages from unexpected people :)17:11
viricI think it should work17:16
viricthe web, I mean. now.17:16
viriccan you check?17:16
viricah I tried with a web proxy17:17
viricI wonder what's of your interest there :)17:18
kristianpaulnothing actually, i just was reading Ben Nanonote article in wikipedia last night17:18
kristianpaulwell no nothing, i discover nanonixos and wanted to read..17:19
virickristianpaul: ok18:42
virickristianpaul: and you did no think "Ché, esto es macanudo!"18:42
kristianpaulviric: jaja, algo tal ves :)18:48
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: Added a boolean function to know if the powersaver is running. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/f31828622:50
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: Create the powersaver instance on demand and destroy it when not needed. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/fca8c8e22:50
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: The input manager should check whether a powersaver instance is running, to not create one when it's not needed. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/8c1f4ab22:50
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