#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-08-09

kristianpaulArtyom, okay i think i missed that implementation the control register :), btw i noticed you implemnted I/Q separate inputs for namuru, any advantage noticed so far?00:46
wolfspraulwpwrak: thanks for the epiphan link (vga grabber), and yes, I did find them before00:56
wolfspraulproblem is that the 300 USD lowest-cost version really only captures 640x480 well (fps), once the resolution goes up fps goes down quite fast00:57
wolfspraulat 1024x768 it could only record 10 fps00:57
wolfspraulso most likely that 300 USD grabber would only be good for a limited timeframe00:57
wolfspraulnext, ironically, by the time I have this in China, it will cost at least 500 USD00:58
wolfspraulChina is great for anything made here, but has steep import duties for foreign made electronics00:58
wpwrakah, just like argentina. except that nothing is really made here :)00:59
wolfsprauland it's not like the iphone that is (or was) smuggled into the country in the millions in hand-luggage and thousands of other ways, but for something rare as this, I need to order it and it will be taxed in the official way00:59
wpwrakor find some traveler who can just "hand-carry" it00:59
wolfspraulso for example when I bought my Samsung projector, US price at amazon was something like 420 USD, in Beijing I paid 660 USD01:00
wolfspraulyes totally [hand-carry]01:00
wolfspraulmountains of goods are being imported that way all the time01:00
wolfspraulI have never, not once, seen any customs official at the airport open anything01:00
wolfspraulthere's a lot of professional mules who fly all the time for that purpose01:01
wolfsprauland you have no idea what's going on at the HK/Shenzhen border :-)01:01
wolfspraulbut... that's not practical for rare devices like this01:01
wolfspraulso, for me it's 500 USD01:01
wolfsprauland the resolution/frame-rate locks me in and will quickly make it obsolete, if we assume progress on m101:01
wolfspraulit just doesn't feel right01:02
wolfspraulI rather just use a camera for now, and hope that the native m1 resolution goes up, or some form of streaming becomes possible01:02
wpwrakoh, i have some ideas. don't you remember how our HXD8 flashing setup was replicated at the fab ? :)01:02
wolfspraulor maybe the additional support of tv-out or digital video01:02
wolfspraulI rather work on the product itself, than on something like this vga grabber that makes me feel as if we are stuck :-)01:03
wpwrakthe problem is that the demo videos don't do the product justice01:03
wpwrakin 1970, they would have been quite alright. but in 2011 ?01:04
wpwrakof course, you could also try to find someone who already has such equipment, and let them do the recording. dunno how difficult that is.01:05
wolfspraulSebastien knows someone I think01:05
wolfspraulbut whether it will happen is another question, it's very time consuming01:05
wolfspraulwe have a lot of patches, we would want videos with different kinds of music, etc.01:06
wolfspraulI will _not_ move forward on the vga grabber01:06
wolfspraulso that opportunity is up for grabs :-)01:06
DocScrutinizerI thought a lot of gfx cards come with video-in?01:07
wolfspraulcomposite video-in?01:07
DocScrutinizererr yep01:07
wolfspraulm1 currently does not support composite tv-out01:07
DocScrutinizerwhat else?01:08
wolfspraulit's possible, we sourced adapter cables already, but it needs changes in the Milkymist SoC to support01:08
wolfspraulso many things are possible in the Milkymist SoC :-)01:08
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: if you run into anybody at the camp good at Verilog, tell them about Milkymist ;-)01:08
DocScrutinizerI think I wil simply send them to the milkymist talk01:09
wolfspraulfirst of all tell them there is this exciting project, but more people need to work together, rather than on their own isolated island01:09
wolfspraulit's like the real cold fusion hasn't happened yet :-)01:10
DocScrutinizerisn't this supposed to be part of milkymist talk?01:10
wolfspraul1-man project still, at the core of it (the SoC itself)01:10
wolfspraulI would hope, I don't know01:10
wolfspraulit's a bit of a chicken & egg problem01:10
wolfspraulif a second person would show up that could seriously join forces with Sebastien, that'd be awesome01:11
wolfspraulkristianpaul may be one day, with his GPS baseband :-)01:11
wolfspraulbut the wishlist in the SoC is really big01:11
wolfspraultv-out is one of those01:11
kristianpauli will just the patch.. after that well :)01:11
wolfsprauland real-time video encoding another (that would solve the entire 'grabbing' discussion for good)01:11
kristianpauli think mwalle already seems to team up well with Sebastien01:12
wolfspraulyes there are hopeful beginnings, we all try, right?01:12
Action: DocScrutinizer just wonders what weird video format MM is supposed to output then01:12
wolfspraultoday it outputs vga01:12
wolfspraulsupport of tv-out and s-video is not hard, but still work (according to Sebastien, he said he would do it together with a bigger cleanup/rewrite of the video subsystem)01:13
DocScrutinizerthere's been that TV<->VGA converter, for some xx bucks01:13
wolfspraulsupport for digital video out the same, more work (we would need to add a digital video out connector first, like dvi)01:13
DocScrutinizerI bet it was made in China01:13
wolfspraulwell, yes01:13
wolfspraulbut it won't work :-)01:13
wolfspraulbecause it's not implemented in the SoC01:14
wolfspraulI have the adapter with me, and Sebastien has one01:14
wolfspraulnow only the software is missing01:14
DocScrutinizersorry I can't follow01:14
wolfspraulyou can connect that adapter to Milkymist One, but it won't work01:15
DocScrutinizerhow's a CVBA<->VGA converter box dependent on anything inside SoC?01:15
wolfspraulask Sebastien01:15
wolfspraulit's not working today01:15
wolfspraulif it's easy, send a patch :-)01:16
DocScrutinizerI fsckng have no clue what to patch on a equipment and setup that's supposed to *just work*01:16
aw_0x7d histories: 1. After reflash, D2/D3 is dimly lit. 2. http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/hardware/milkymist_one/production/rc3/test_results/7D-reflash-results 3. couple days later d2/d3 is off after power on. 4. d2/d3/ dimly lit after pressed middle btn. 5. stopped at 'Bitstream length: 1484404' after using shorter BEN cable/reflashed. 6. replaced a new diode and c238 7. Let it fully dried over night 8. Reconfiguration->boot01:16
aw_(D2 ON)->rendering(D3 ON) when power on and pressed middle btn01:16
kristianpaulDocScrutinizer: thats not the case for all in milkymist 01:17
kristianpaulbut it prety do cool video sinthesis :-)01:17
aw_not bad results that replaced new diode and C238. ;-)01:17
Action: DocScrutinizer is *completely* puzzled01:17
wolfspraul*just work* is for vga01:18
wolfspraulyou started to talk about tv-out (composite video), and I told you it's possible in hardware, but needs a software (ic design) update01:18
kristianpaulI think i understand DocScrutinizer, i would spect as well that if something is VGA that chinesse adapter just will work01:18
DocScrutinizerno, I talked about TV-IN, NOT TV-out01:19
wolfspraulkristianpaul: no way, very few graphics cards support that01:19
wolfspraulyou cannot plug this into any vga connector and think it will work: it will not01:19
kristianpaulah, is not just the cable magic ;)01:19
kristianpaulgot it01:19
wolfspraulthe cable is just a passive part, I sourced it for 1 USD01:20
DocScrutinizer*you* started to talk about TV-out, while I pointed at a converter box available for some 4A$, that converts *any* VGA to CVBS01:20
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: ah, now I got it :-) we talk about different converters01:20
wolfspraulyou want to first convert vga to cvbs, then feed that into a recorder01:20
wolfspraulah no, you confused me too now01:21
wolfspraulthat is what I am talking about :-)01:21
wolfsprauland it will not work on m101:21
wpwrak(time-consuming) why ? having at least one video that looks good would already be a vast improvement.01:21
wolfsprauland it will not work on most vga, not if it's a 4$ passive part01:21
wolfspraulcheck the matrox url I just posted, this is what these adapters typically do01:22
DocScrutinizerRCA-CVBS, SCART, VGA01:23
DocScrutinizersorry, been some 9 months back when I looked at it01:23
wolfspraulhe. pretty good price memory for 9 months back :-)01:23
DocScrutinizermaybe it was 29$ maybe 89$01:23
DocScrutinizerthough I think it's been more like 2901:24
wolfspraulI know of two solutions right now01:24
wolfspraula simple cable like the one on the url I just posted01:24
wolfspraulor the epiphan solution with some ics that grab/capture stuff and convert to digital01:24
wolfspraulthere may be something in the middle that just goes to tv-out01:24
wolfspraulI will check with Sebastien, if such a 'more active' adapter it exists, it must do whatever the SoC is not doing right now01:25
DocScrutinizerit was actually amazingly cheap01:26
wolfspraulthis will only allow us to go to analog tv-out though, not sure whether this results in a better recording in the end01:26
wolfspraulI find 30-80 USD quite expensive, must be some ICs inside01:26
DocScrutinizerI triple-checked it actually does framerate and sync freq conversion01:26
DocScrutinizersure, it does a complete AD and DA and one frame or two frames buffering01:27
wolfspraulwpwrak: maybe one could post-process the camera recordings for more contrast or sharpness01:27
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: if you find it again or remember the name, let us know01:28
wolfsprauleven though AD and then DA and then another AD is a bit depressing01:28
wolfsprauland I'm not sure whether the end result is any better than what we have now01:28
wolfspraulhey, the total would be DA -> AD -> DA -> AD01:28
kristianpaulArtyom, yes, i'm aware of this behavior for STATUS and NEW_DATA, but i was wondering for example about the internal chx_prn_key_enable, how it is disabled..01:31
DocScrutinizerprobably you want the second linked one above then, only one time DA->AD -->HDMI01:35
kristianpaulArtyom, oh, wait a second i think i missundertood initialization after reset and initialization after every clk? (from line 276 in your vhdl gps baseband code)01:36
DocScrutinizerwandelt analoges VGA in digitales HDMI High Speed um01:37
DocScrutinizererreicht Auflösungen bis 1080p, ist HDTV kompatibel, 5GBit/s01:37
DocScrutinizerEUR 35,7501:37
kristianpaulArtyom, wich actually differ a bit from the namuru upstream code i have...01:37
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: yes but we are trying to record. Maybe the other idea works, first vga -> tv-out, then tv-out -> usb01:38
wolfspraulboth are cheap little things that I most likely can find in China for a few USD01:38
kristianpaulcant you record from s-video?01:39
DocScrutinizererr, you got no camera with HDMI input for recording? Or a graCa?01:39
kristianpaulArtyom, i think i got it now, you reset enables and new_data_read every clk, but i'm amazed this is not on my namuru verilog code, thats why i was thinking the only way was writing back to some registers..01:46
kristianpaulArtyom,  i mean i got upstream namuru code from here http://www.gmat.unsw.edu.au/namuru/logic/baseband_verilog.zip, same as you i guess?01:50
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: alright, xiangfu ordered both the vga->tv converter (15 USD), and a tv->usb grabber (18 USD)02:03
wolfspraullet's see whether it works and how good the quality is...02:03
wolfspraulthanks for the link, I got stuck at the expensive epiphany vga grabbers before... didn't think of the path through an active tv-out converter02:05
DocScrutinizerI searched a bit for recorders with HDMI-INput but couldn't find any02:10
DocScrutinizerfor normal PAL/NTSC TV resolution the quality should be fine though02:11
DocScrutinizerjust try to use component or SCART for the analog TV signal connection02:13
DocScrutinizerCVBS is probably the worst quality you can get on analog TV02:13
DocScrutinizerthose small hosiden are also good quality signal allegedly, think the name is S-Video02:15
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: somehow I doubt that this whole conversion path will lead to better quality in the end, but we see02:21
xiangfuDocScrutinizer, ok. those two device have S-video 02:21
wolfspraulI just need something practical and cheap that works fast, because as important as having good videos is, it's even more important to advance the state of m1 so that m1 itself can produce higher-resolution output, can stream it, etc.02:22
wolfspraulunfortunately Google (for example) makes big press releases about 'open' WebM, but the openess stops right where the Verilog sources of their encoder start02:23
wolfspraulthey probably mean open press release, or open marketing02:23
wolfspraulat least Sebastien managed to extract an actual answer from them (that their sources are not open), he can consider himself privileged (others tried and only got silence back :-))02:24
DocScrutinizeryou probably will want to test the VGA->TV converter with a real TV first, to make sure the quality is OKish until there02:24
wolfspraulxiangfu ordered both, 35 USD between them, in a few days we can see the results02:25
wolfspraullike I said, what we really need is encoding and streaming right on m1 itself, so like I said earlier - keep your eyes open for Verilog hackers :-)02:26
DocScrutinizerall days better than camera shots from a VGA display02:27
wolfspraulmaybe there is something simpler than full theora/webm/dirac encoding, something that just streams unencoded over Ethernet?02:27
wolfsprauldon't know02:27
wolfspraulthe frame grabber should grab it right out of m1 memory :-)02:28
DocScrutinizerumm, don't think so02:28
wolfspraulnot through all these external converters...02:28
DocScrutinizerhmmm yeah, sure02:29
DocScrutinizerfirst see what it yields, maybe you'll be surprised02:29
wolfspraulat 640x480, 16bpp and 24fps, we have about 14 megabytes of data per second02:30
DocScrutinizerhonestly I don't get it why MM can't output at 50fps/16kHz rather than 32kHz VGA02:31
DocScrutinizerafaik VGA is TV RGB on double speed02:32
DocScrutinizerso reduce the clock to 1/2 and you should have fine component TV signal02:32
DocScrutinizerjust made for SCART02:33
DocScrutinizerok, you won't get interlace this way02:34
DocScrutinizerand that's also the difference to VGA02:34
DocScrutinizerVGA is basically "progressive" on double Hsync freq, or sth like that02:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, for the interlace you need a little trick to mark each other frame as odd one02:36
DocScrutinizerand your videobuffer scanning scheme is a bit weird02:36
wolfspraulthis is all understood, and you are right02:37
wolfspraulit's 'not much' work, but it's work02:37
wolfspraulit's one thing to think it through and describe in irc, another to send a functioning Verilog diff02:37
DocScrutinizerVerilog :-)02:37
wolfspraulbut of course your thoughts are very appreciated, you hit it exactly02:37
wolfspraulSebastien said next time he cleans up/restructures the video subsystem, he'll add tv-out with it. that's the last I heard on this.02:38
DocScrutinizeryou need somebody to hack interlace tag and videobifer scanning into verilog?02:38
wolfspraulit's not super urgent I agree, just a nice feature02:38
DocScrutinizershould be simple enough02:39
DocScrutinizerI think the odd-frame tag is a "half" line with a long hsync black shoulder02:40
DocScrutinizerso old analog TV would advance vertical sawtooth oscillator by one line, while scanning one line and flyback usually allows vertical to advance 2 lines during that period02:42
DocScrutinizeractually it's the vsync black shoulder that's extended by one half line duration02:44
DocScrutinizerI'll look it up02:45
DocScrutinizeryup, half line: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Balayage_entrelace_affichage_trames.svg/500px-Balayage_entrelace_affichage_trames.svg.png02:48
DocScrutinizerblack shoulder for even frame starts and ends half a hsync phase earlier than that for odd frame02:50
kristianpaul(ethernet) cant achieve more than 512Kb/s last time i check02:51
kristianpaulbecause the lack of dma lekernel said02:51
wpwrakplan B would be the simulation route. if M1 has a fixed frame rate, it would be a matter of processing the audio stream, extracting the control (input to the gfx) information frame by frame from it, then individually rendering the frames, which qemu apparently already can do (render, i mean, not individual frames)03:03
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes, we looked at that too, but it's ... more work :-)03:11
wolfspraulhow to feed audio to qemu, let alone camera...03:11
wolfspraulthe best route is to make things work right inside m103:12
wolfsprauland keep investments into workarounds to a minimum, because they all get deducted from m1 investments03:12
wolfspraulof course, I know, we need videos... just saying the emulation route was considered03:13
wpwrakwolfspraul: yeah, the more direct, the better :)04:30
Artyomkristianpaul: (from line 276 in your vhdl gps baseband code) - this was done because of difference in connection FPGA and MCU on my board. The idea of this code is to make pulse that lasts only one-clock-period for these signals. But I don't know whether this is correct implementation.06:51
Artyomkristianpaul: I have added both I/Q-channels because I would like in future to add GLONASS implementation (because it's C/A-code bandwidth is wider).07:05
Artyomkristianpaul: yes, I took namuru source-code from the same place.07:07
xiangfuDocScrutinizer. I just got the VGA-->Video converter. http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/video-in-itself.png 08:07
xiangfuvideo-in itself make performance interesting .08:21
larscxiangfu: hehe :)08:45
LunaFrizzleHi everyone !09:03
LunaFrizzleHello xiangfu :)09:03
xiangfuLunaFrizzle, hi09:03
wpwrakxiangfu: oh. took me a while to realize what this screenshot is showing ;-) so this vga->video in converter will also be useful for recording demo videos, right ?09:17
wpwrakxiangfu: if yes, it looks pretty darn good :)09:18
xiangfuwpwrak, yes. but I still not get the usb-Video-grab device.09:18
wpwrakxiangfu: relax ;-)))09:18
wpwrakin any case, what your screenshot shows is the same as what such a device does, i.e., the same type of signal path. just that the destination is the M1 itself, not a PC09:19
wpwrakxiangfu: can you set a background image ("wallpaper") for the screen instead of just black ? something colorful ?09:21
wolfspraulpretty brave to plug the cable back into m1 itself :-)09:22
wolfspraulxiangfu has no fear09:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: it's a pretty clever idea :)09:22
wolfspraulmental stack overflow09:22
wpwrakwolfspraul: and see how well it seems to work !09:22
wolfspraulI'd be worried...09:22
wpwraknow, with a colorful background, we could also tell how well color information is preserved09:23
xiangfuwait one second09:24
wpwrakwolfspraul: what's also cool about this setup is that you can directly compare, side by side, the effect of 1-2 times going through the analog loop09:25
wolfspraulit also has a feeling of time machine to it09:26
wolfsprauland electrons going in circle09:26
wpwrakwolfspraul: i think you already have your first item for the 09-01 news ;-)09:26
wolfsprauland now you want to be able to zoom in...09:26
wolfspraulcan we catch up?09:26
DocScrutinizerxiangfu: optical feedback - nice09:27
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: you see that your input gives a quick echo here... xiangfu already received the adapter you suggested a few hours ago...09:27
wpwraki'm amazed by the speed of that as well09:28
wpwrakovernight delivery is so yesterday09:29
DocScrutinizeryes, and the feedback setup is a brilliant method to amplify any artifacts introduced by any part of the system09:29
wolfspraulin China it's not that unusual09:29
wpwrakwolfspraul: add "'s empire" :)09:29
wolfspraulkeep in mind that most Chinese cities are big, Beijing alone is bigger than most smaller European countries09:29
wolfspraulso as long as you buy within your city, there's always a delivery option that will get stuff to you within 2 hours, if you want to (will cost more, but not much)09:30
wolfspraulthen some kid will race through town on his bike to deliver your stuff :-)09:30
wolfspraulif you want to, that is (it will cost more)09:30
wolfspraulso xiangfu was lucky that that one vendor was in Beijing, the other one probably not, so that gets delivered a little slower09:31
wpwrakyeah, and in the US they prefer to have shops in states with a few customers as possible, to evade the sales tax. so there, shipments are generally non-trivial.09:31
wolfspraulif you are in shenzhen, you will have hardly heard about ANY electronic anything needing more than 2-3 hours to reach you, as long as you pay a few USD for a courier09:31
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: anyway you see there's not much loss on high frequencies (small structures smearing, edges fuzzy), and no change in hue and saturation09:32
wolfspraulwe are following your advice09:32
wpwraki like that. this way, home delivery begins to make sense09:32
wolfspraulxiangfu's last round of videos was a step up (camera on tripod)09:32
DocScrutinizereven when running things three times thru the whole AD->-DA process09:32
wolfsprauland if this is yet another step up - great09:33
wolfspraulthe 300+ USD vga grabbers looked wrong to me09:33
wolfspraulnow we are down to 30 USD09:33
wpwrakhehe :)09:33
wolfspraulif this works (we only have one half now), I'll buy a few more sets for people who want to help with tutorials and recordings09:33
wolfspraulbut step by step09:34
xiangfuwpwrak, http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/video-in-itself-1.png09:35
wolfspraulwpwrak: yes it's nuts in shenzhen. I tried to do some rough math once and the value of components _IN STOCK_ within a maybe 1 mile radius of only one of the electronic shopping areas must be in the hundreds of millions of USD09:35
wolfsprauland within a range of about 50km, ca. 25% of the world's (!) consumer electronics are being manufactured, by tens of thousands of hungry smt machines hammering away09:36
wolfspraulthose 2 numbers give you an idea of the scale, and why you can get pretty much anything delivered to your office in a few hours09:37
wolfsprauland quick and flexbile reaction is so important in any run...09:37
xiangfuthe by-pass VGA out, have a little noise. but not much. the screenshot can show that.09:40
LunaFrizzlexiangfu, I'm having some troubles make-ing this exemple http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compiling_for_the_NanoNote The other guys told me to ask you whenit came to SDL related problems09:41
xiangfuLunaFrizzle, ok. but I am not SDL expert. I think someone in the mailing list is SDL expert. :) what is your error?09:42
LunaFrizzlexiangfu, first off, to be sure the file have to be compiled on my computer or on the Nanonote (I got the same error anyway, probably a dumb error)09:43
xiangfuthis device support PAL and NTSC09:44
xiangfuhere is NTSC screenshot: (it show NTSM-MJ) is m1.09:44
xiangfua little bigger then PAL in m1 [Video input preview]09:45
xiangfuLunaFrizzle, the 'main.c' cannot compiled? that is your compile commands? 09:46
xiangfuLunaFrizzle, oh. sorry. you also using the same Makefile in that wiki page?09:47
wolfspraulntsc fills out a larger part of the preview window09:48
wolfspraulnow we can also easily test pal & ntsc :-)09:48
wpwrakLunaFrizzle: if you don't tell anyone what errors you get, i'm afraid this problem will haunt you for a very long time :)09:49
LunaFrizzlesorry xiangfu, wpwrak I'm first digging in myself to be sure I'm not waisting your time09:50
wpwrakyellow fades quickly but the other colors look quite decent, even in the second iteration.09:50
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: anyway the VGA->TV converter looks pretty decent, I'd think with a proper digitizer you shall get acceptable quality for any demo videos09:51
wpwrakLunaFrizzle: a request for help with the error message is likely to waste less time than one without ;) you know, it's that sherlock holmes thing :)09:51
xiangfuwolfspraul, it have a little shift at the bottom when NTSC09:51
xiangfuwolfspraul, in the Video-in-Preview.09:52
wpwrakNTSC also seems to "overshoot" at the bottom09:52
xiangfumaybe a bug.09:52
wpwrakprobably :)09:52
wpwrakin any case, i think the days of lousy demo videos are counted ;-)09:53
DocScrutinizerisn't it amazing what you can get for some 13$? :-D09:53
xiangfuoh. one more device? 09:55
xiangfuNTSC video-in preview is not shift, it like http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/tmp/video-in-itself-NTSC-4.png09:58
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: by the way, what do the pros use if they want to power a little uC circuit from mains ? constraints: voltage 3.3 V, about 50 mA max, long-term average (> 1 min) very low, has a triac to switch mains (it's mainly a lamp control), circuit should be simple and should use as little volume as possible (needs to share the box in which the light switch normally lives with all the cables and stuff)09:58
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: things i've considered: resistive divider, capacitative divider, transformer09:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: i can't seem to find transformers that are really small. the smalles one is still some 6 ccm09:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: also, since i have the triac, i'm likely to be galvanically coupled to mains anyway (unless i use an opto-isolated one, but these have other undesirable properties)10:00
DocScrutinizercapacitive divider usually10:00
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: great. that was the approach that looked the most promising10:01
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: i wonder if it would be a good idea to toss in a switching DC-DC regulator and convert a relatively high input voltage (maybe 12-24 V) down to the 3.3 V I need, to keep the current on the high-voltage side low ?10:02
DocScrutinizer50mA is a lot though10:16
DocScrutinizerthose capacitive dividers are feasible for up to maybe 5mA10:17
DocScrutinizerif those 50mA are not spikes you can buffer in a 1000uF, you probably *will* need a trafo10:17
DocScrutinizeror a special solid state converter: there is at least one IC that can (switch?)regulate down from 300V input to 1digit volts output, but I think it also doesn't do 50mA10:19
DocScrutinizercomplete SPSU modules should be available as well10:21
DocScrutinizerso not 24V->3V3 but rather 300V->3V310:21
DocScrutinizerBOM is almost identical ;-D10:22
wpwrakhmm, i haven't found any regulator rated for such high voltages10:25
wpwrakalso, how big are those modules ? remember, i just have a few ccm10:26
wpwrak(spsu module) are you thinking of something like this ? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=285-1336-ND10:28
wpwrakwaaay too big10:28
wpwrakabout 1/10th the volume may be be acceptable, but just barely10:29
Action: stefan_schmidt sits at the cccamp and is watching daniel and jan to get the GSm up and running10:30
wpwraki have about 9 x 5 x 4 cm inside these boxes. and that's shared with all the cables going in and out10:31
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: there's hardly any other thing in life as satisfying as watching other people work, while sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying a cool beer, right ;-)10:32
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: heh10:33
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: actually I help as well10:33
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: But a cold beer would not be that bad10:34
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: Harald still have some small 5l kegs around...10:34
wpwrakjust the right quantity to wash down the breakfast10:36
LunaFrizzleok I got my problem10:49
LunaFrizzleI compiled the toolchain following the wiki's intruction10:49
LunaFrizzleit doesn't compile the bin in the staging_dir/toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc- folder10:50
LunaFrizzleI don't know what I got wrong10:50
kyakit's in staging_dir/toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-
LunaFrizzlethere's no such folder either kilae 11:00
LunaFrizzleI mean kyak 11:00
LunaFrizzlexiangfu is gone but here is my problem13:01
LunaFrizzleI donwloaded the toolkit from here http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/Ben_NanoNote_2GB_NAND/latest/13:01
kyakLunaFrizzle: can you post your Makefile and program you are trying to build with SDK?14:13
LunaFrizzlekyak, here it is >>> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compiling_for_the_NanoNote14:46
LunaFrizzlekyak, so ? no idea ?16:03
kyakLunaFrizzle: ah, can't reproduce it, the SDK is for x86_6416:32
kyakthe article is plain wrong imho16:32
kyakusing regular Makefiles to compile with openwrt toolchain? That's weird. Why not use openwrt SDK/buildroot as intended?16:33
kyaki'd suggest you to have a look at some examples of SDL programs in openwrt-packages, like nightsky16:33
qi-botThe build has FAILED, see log here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-08082011-1458/16:49
wpwrakkyak: for me, regular makefiles work quite well for cross-compiling basic things with openwrt (not SDL).17:45
wpwrakkyak: if the unfortunate split between gcc and the libraries hierarchy didn't exist, also SDL wouldn't be a problem17:46
wpwrakkyak: (what i did was simply symlink all the binaries to /usr/local/bin. gcc remembers its "true home", so it goes back there to look for things)17:46
kyakwpwrak: for me, openwrt Makefiles work quite well, without further remarks :)17:49
wpwrakyeah, but it'snot so nice if you have to modify your makefiles a lot for openwrt. it's a bit like as if Debian and Red Hat would need different Makefiles ...18:07
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