#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-07-26

rejoncheck out this vapour: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/7668a9d46a43e48201:50
wolfspraulakiwiguy: good morning01:56
wolfspraulI have good news for you - I received an anonymous donation of 50 USD towards the purchase of your Ben NanoNote! Seriously! It's amazing...01:56
wolfspraulshipping to New Zealand is about 25 USD or so btw, so the total you will need is still about 75 USD...01:57
kristianpaulI still wondering what kinda of keyboard wolfgang tought for the Ya tablet idea02:08
kristianpaulwpwrak: xula still nice board for that price, shame that sdram share bus with spi flash...02:09
wolfspraulkristianpaul: I'm just thinking about continuity, I have no silver bullet for the whole device.02:26
wolfspraulso for the time being I continue to improve software on the Ben, until the magic moment hits that we can somehow advance the hardware02:26
kristianpaulsure sure, just wanted to heard your idea :)02:30
kristianpaulpersonally, i like table-like devices like kindle, but anway just saying...02:31
kristianpaulbecause keyboard location not ebook think at all02:34
akiwiguyHello, wolfspraul 03:13
akiwiguywolfspraul: You're kidding me, right?03:13
akiwiguyThat is pure awesomeness. :D 03:15
wolfsprauldo you think you have the rest saved up already? ca. 75 USD?03:15
akiwiguyI'd have to have a look, but I'm on holiday at the moment03:16
akiwiguySo I can't check03:16
akiwiguyI get back home on Saturday so I shall let you know03:16
wolfspraulyes, email me at wolfgang@sharism.cc03:18
wolfspraulthen we take it from there03:18
akiwiguyOkay then03:19
rjeffriesVelocity® micro Cruz T301 7" 2GB Tablet $199 USD uses Ingenic 4760 has capacitive screen03:26
rjeffrieson Amazon, for example it is $160 http://www.amazon.com/Velocity-Micro-7-Inch-Android-Tablet/dp/B0051VFVJ803:27
rjeffriesit would be cool to make it a Linux tablet03:27
akiwiguyBtw, do we have any feasible way of rearranging the keyboard on the NanoNote? I saw Jane used some glue to do it03:27
akiwiguyBecause I'd be changing mine to azerty03:28
wolfsprauldon't do it03:30
akiwiguyWhy not?03:30
wolfspraulit's not meant to be rearranged, you will essentially destroy the keyboard and device ;-)03:31
akiwiguyOh well.03:31
wolfspraulwell that's my opinion03:31
wolfspraulyou saw that Jane just did it anyway...03:31
akiwiguyI shall just remap it in software and find some stickers to put over the keys :P 03:34
kristianpauli think osgps make its own inb/outb implementation..03:58
kristianpauloh, wow osgps commits from  6 days ago 04:15
wolfspraulkristianpaul: you should tell them about your Milkymist work04:17
wolfspraulit takes time for people to understand new things, especially as fundamental as Milkymist, so you may have to repeat a few times etc. but start early is good...04:17
kristianpaulI did already (tell)04:17
wolfspraulany feedback?04:20
kristianpaulwell, dual gps receiver was a recomendation for long run, that came from Fabrizio Tapper04:25
kristianpaulgps and galileo i think it was04:26
kristianpaulfrom Clifford Kelley and Peter Mumford, no more feedback than best wishes :)04:27
wolfspraulhe :-) that's a start04:27
kristianpaulah, almost forgot, Fabrizio saids milkymist related work with gps stuff, should work as a toolkit04:27
wolfsprauldon't understand04:28
kristianpauland the usual, wow that expensive board !!04:28
kristianpaultoolkit i think he meant, to make easy for people to get involve04:28
kristianpaulbut of course too soon, to think about it think04:28
wolfspraulyes I wasn't thinking about the board as much as about the Milkymist SoC and integration04:29
kristianpaulsure sure04:29
wolfspraulwe are in a tough spot always (we = Milkymist One) because pure software folks will look at the hardware and compare specs and complain about 'low' specs04:29
wolfspraulwhile pure hardware folks look at the board and say 'expensive' because they compare with the most subsidized stuff they can find on the market04:30
wolfspraulthat's life :-) the only way to break through is to make products that sell to real users who care about neither comparison04:30
wolfspraulI know too little about osgps to even begin to think whether any integration with Milkymist SoC makes sense or not...04:31
kristianpaulha, thats not all, he only mentioned something i understand to he want to manufacture04:32
kristianpaulPCB from here http://gnss-sdr.ru/index.php?blogid=204:32
kristianpaulwich is nice i think, but no more comments came from my side04:32
kristianpaulosgps, well i'm very positive about it04:32
kristianpaulfirst it was ran 10 years ago i a PI computer.04:33
kristianpaulsecond, it already worked with a gp2021, wich namuru is a clone04:33
wolfspraulkristianpaul: that's a nice blog [gnss-sdr.ru], unfortunately I cannot find an rss feed04:50
wolfspraulI'll add it to the watchlist :-)04:50
kristianpaulthere is rss. i'm following04:53
Action: kristianpaul zzz05:02
wolfspraulthat's in Russian05:08
wolfspraulcool I think this works: http://gnss-sdr.ru/xml-rss2.php?blogid=205:09
kristianpaulbetter :-)05:13
wolfspraulkristianpaul: added to the qi planet, thanks again!05:16
wolfspraulif you know of more links in that direction, sdr, rf - please share05:17
kristianpaulnot the floss one..05:20
kristianpaulat you choice05:20
kristianpaulhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kristianpaul/13-099-Presentation_ENC10_presentation_Ruegamer.pdf <- future front end for GPS and GALILEO.05:26
akiwiguyHmm. Looking at txt2tags and it looks quite good. I could use that on my Nano with vi for all of my school work instead of using my netbook 06:34
akiwiguyWhen I get my Nano, that is06:37
kyakakiwiguy: what does txt2tags do?06:48
akiwiguyIt converts plain text with some markup (**bold** //italics// __underline__) etc to many different formats like HTML, tex, MediaWiki syntax06:51
akiwiguyAlso, ugh i hate touchscreen keyboards06:53
kyaksounds cool07:00
akiwiguyUgh, stupid iPad, crashing all the time07:05
wpwrakkristianpaul: (xula) i don't think the shared flash/ram is an issue. i think you use the flash only when booting.08:49
solrizehttp://www.gradolabs.com/page_headphones.php?item=7882e729321fad6256d8d77c0629dbb4   now THIS is CE packaging... amplifier case machined from a block of mahogany09:00
wpwraksweet ;-)09:00
wpwrakwood would be so nice to use if it didn't have that nasty infatuation with water and was a bit stronger09:01
Jay7kyak: hi, have you seen this http://www.ak-systems.ru/jml/ru/production/item/58-ip-plug ?09:07
Jay7btw, Ya Plug may be another idea :)09:07
Action: Jay7 gone09:08
kodeinlooks like a decent idea for a small home gateway09:10
wpwrakthe plug form factor is interesting. but ... it puts you right into regulatory hell. anything that connects to mains is heavily regulated, mandatory certification, and there are countries with unique local certifications.09:10
wpwrake.g., look at a power supply from a major laptop vendor and count the little logos on it. you'll easily find 10 of them. each of them is worth a few thousand dollars. plus, for the plug form factor, you need to design a different connector for each type of wall socket in use. that's at least 5-6 different types.09:15
wpwrakmaybe you can find pre-made partial plugs that you can integrate into case, though. or maybe even a case system with modular plugs. that should save you a lot of money :)09:16
kodeineuroplug covers you for around 50 countries, though09:17
wpwrakkodein: doesn't help you in the US, australia, uk, argentina, south africa, and i think it would be a problem in switzerland and brazil, too. that's quite a large part of the planet you're missing :) and i don't remember what they have in russia, china, japan, and such. taiwan has US, so at least there you're good :)09:19
wpwrak(taiwain) that is, once you add a US plug :)09:19
kodeinquite a few of my adapters I've gotten with snap on plugs for different parts of the world09:20
kodeinI seem to recall the sheevaplug eventually going with a C7 instead, though09:21
wpwrakkodein: one question is whether you can commercially import a device with them. and then you also need to certify the adapters. also, adapters kinda obscure the whole "neat and simple" plug idea .09:22
kodeinwell, what I was getting at was the thingamajig to the right on this picture: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/skins/skin_1/images/gpsp_pa.jpg09:24
wpwrakah, europlug should work in switzerland too. then it ought to be good for brazil as well. that helps.09:25
wpwrakkodein: yes, that would work (not in australia, argentina, and apparently china, though). but then you need to find a supplier with such modular cases.09:29
wpwrakkodein: and you still need to certify the electronics in all those domains. same plug != same certificate.09:29
kodeinyes, certainly.09:30
kyakJay7: i've seen it now09:33
kyakand very strange comments09:33
kyakin order to buy it, you need to inform how you plan to use it - wtf?09:33
kyaki know only so many places to plug this IP Plug, and i would suggest one of them to that company09:34
wpwrakkyak: would that be a place where a lightbulb could make a difference, if it wasn't for the lack of electricity ? ;-)09:39
wolfspraulI don't think the mains power situation is quite as desperate as Werner describes it. but still a question of whether that is an area worth spending limited resources on, so at the bottom line I agree with Werner.09:55
wolfspraulkodein: C7 is cool, problem is that you will mostly only find it with larger supplies, 25W or up09:55
wpwrakwolfspraul: i'd say mains are a good thing to eventually know how to handle, but due to the large external costs, it's probably not a thing you'd want to do on a tight budget and a tight schedule10:03
wolfspraulbtw, I just saw your mail about the m1 circuit improvement - great!!!10:05
wolfspraulthanks a lot10:05
wolfspraulthe original wasn't delivered to my Inbox for some reason10:06
wolfspraulI only saw Sebastien's reply now10:06
wolfspraulAdam just finished fix2 for all 90 boards, it will get interesting very soon :-)10:06
wpwrakyeah. the moment of truth approaches :)10:07
wolfspraulI don't know whether he starts testing today though, I'm sure it was a long soldering day already.10:08
wolfspraulbut definitely tomorrow10:08
wolfspraulalready 6 PM here10:08
wpwrakstill 6 good working hours left in the day ;-)10:08
kyakwpwrak: yeah, that place :)10:16
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-07252011-0745/11:10
methril_workmorning all11:18
kristianpaulmorning 11:18
wpwrakwolfspraul: well, with all the board cleaning and drying, i guess it'll be tomorrow before the first tests12:26
wpwrakwolfspraul: there's this wonderful "no clean" flux, but the one i have isn't much fun to use (sort of feels like heavily diluted "real" flux), and you probably still want to wash it off in the end, or worry about readily dissolved ions forever12:28
wpwrakthose ions are tricky. you can easily get a flux-made bridge between traces/pads with a resistance around 100 kOhm. sometimes that's enough to defeat a pull-up, or - in conjunction with parasitic capacitances - slow the pull-up's effect enough to cause trouble12:29
wpwraktook me a while to figure that one out when i had a bunch of atusb boards that mysteriously wouldn't come out of reset after a bit of rework :)12:30
kyakdvdk: hi! Just wondering, if the project statistics at ohloh is updated by itself, or it must be triggered manually? I noticed that nanonote-firmware project was last updated 3 months ago :)12:41
wolfspraulah yes, it's nice that we care about ohloh, good idea!12:42
dvdkkyak: it's auto-updated usually.  unless checkout errors occur, then you might have to drop a forum message for the administrators.13:07
dvdki wonder, whether the latest branch renaming made it fail?13:07
kyakdvdk: could be. Perhaps you should re-add the project?13:38
dvdkkyak: not the project, just the git repo should suffice13:42
kyakyeah, that's what i meant :)13:42
dvdkjust looging into ohloh13:43
kyakdvdk: do you have just openwrt-xburst or openwrt-packages repo, too?13:44
dvdkno, look here:13:44
dvdki have gmenu2x, -packages and -xburst13:44
kyakah, cool13:44
kyakmaybe add all the projects of projects.qi-hardware.com then?13:45
dvdkno, maybe distribute it over different ohloh projetcs then.  i mean this project is named 'nanonote firmware' for a reason.  13:45
dvdkthis is all the sutff that goes into releases.  the other stuff is not (maybe the kernel, though?)13:46
wpwrakmost don't really qualify as "firmware"13:46
wpwrakif you want to collect all the qi-hw projects, perhaps this needs a new category13:46
kyakthat's strange that the project is "NanoNote Firmware", when the address bar shows "nanonote-software" :)13:47
dvdkyeah, hmm.  just not consistent then :)13:49
dvdkjust resubmitted the git repos13:49
wpwrakand not everything on qi-hw is "nanonote software" either13:49
dvdkbut didn't really help.13:49
dvdki guess we'll have to post in the forum then13:49
wpwrakhmm, how do i get from "enlistments" to the list of repositories ?13:51
wpwrakthe world map is fun ;-) 65 contributors, but just one user :)13:52
wpwrak(enlistments) duh, never mind. that is the list of repositories. dunno why i confused it with the summary page13:54
wpwrakanyone care to add ben-wpan ? i wonder how many phantazillions that one is worth :)13:55
dvdkwpwrak: you should start with freshmeat for such projects.  14:00
dvdkor maybe, better would be to add a 'Nanonote Hardware' (as opposed to software/firmware) projects to both freshemeat and ohloh, and list the ben-wpan and other nanonote hw-related repositories there14:01
wpwrakah, so you can't add it directly to ohloh to get the evalutation ? pity.14:02
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: fix spell (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/326700e14:04
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: debug_ops should be char not unsigned (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/d7801e114:04
dvdkwpwrak: you can directly add it to ohloh.  maybe misunderstood you.  just wrt to public visibility, freshmeat is certainly more important than ohloh.14:04
wpwrakah no, i'm just a little curious what that evaluation would return. i trust google to help people to find it :)14:05
dvdkbtw, just the live stream of the debconf presentation about debian multiarch support started14:06
methril_workwpwrak, now it has 2 users14:24
wpwrakwhee ! their metric is a little flawed ;-) i suppose they retrieve the contributors from the commits, but the users have to be told to register at ohloh ?14:28
methril_worki`m registered14:35
dvdkwpwrak: or maybe really nobody is using it :)14:51
wpwrakdvdk: yes, perhaps you're doing the most extreme version of "scratching one's itch" :)14:59
wpwrakdvdk: running a 11 million USB project, just to please your own desires. well, if the sheiks in oil-rich countries can do it, why shouldn't you ? ;-)15:00
kristianpauli jsut realize with osgps you can do soemthing like this:  # define outpwd(p, v) outw_p(v, p)18:29
wpwrakas opposed to .. ? :)18:30
wpwrakyou can redefine a function name. i got that. what's special about it ? :)18:35
kristianpaulwell, *i* dint knew it !! 18:36
kristianpaulit could save me lots of renames in the past..18:36
wpwrakaah :)18:42
akiwiguyGood morning all21:25
kristianpaulakiwiguy: hi21:43
akiwiguyHello, kristianpaul 21:44
kristianpaulakiwiguy: how fesible you think is to uset the txt2tags software you mentioned last time, to index and browse a XML dump from wiktionary?21:59
akiwiguyHmm, I don't know if it goes backwards - XML to text 22:01
akiwiguyI'd have to have a look at how wikitionary dumps it's info, I know nothing about it22:02
mthkristianpaul: for XML to text, XSLT could be used22:14
wpwrakbah, http://en.qi-hardware.com/ sucks. doesn't even have a proper title23:59
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