#qi-hardware IRC log for Tuesday, 2011-07-12

DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: moin01:51
DocScrutinizeryou are on a constant chase to pick up technology that might get orphaned by Nokia? Aegis seems to qualify for this class (though it's a really extraordinary useless piece of crap): http://library.developer.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_API/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_6cbe.html01:55
wolfspraulmorning01:56
wolfspraulwhy should I even click the link if it's not good stuff?01:57
DocScrutinizermaybe to wonder what nonsense FOSS community develops. I'm really amazed to find this age old trusted-computing nonsense getting support from open source community recently, as if all the concerns of experts were moot if only you had the right spirit when developing it. Sounds kinda like Oppenheimer02:32
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: maybe the community is a bit defocused :-)02:34
wolfspraulif they come here, we have enough real problems for them02:34
DocScrutinizerhehe02:34
wolfspraultrusted computing for me means I trust the source of packages/updates I install02:34
wolfspraulI want a secure link to those servers, I want signed binaries, and most of all I want to trust the organization that is running those servers02:35
DocScrutinizerthis can be done by simple means like md5-hashes you compare manually02:35
wolfspraulthe entire path of signed bootloader etc. makes no sense to me. it seems to be driven by paranoia.02:36
DocScrutinizertrusted-computing is about industry trusting in the hw keeping you (the user) out from their valuable IP02:36
wolfspraulthe movie studios have nightmares that people will steal their valuable Transformers XII02:36
wolfspraulso they try to encrypt the entire path the data takes02:36
wolfspraulwhat a complete abysmal failure02:36
wolfsprauleventually the 'data' has to reach my eyes and ears02:36
DocScrutinizerindeed02:37
wolfspraulI just setup a camera right in front of the big flatscreen TV, and for 90% of the world population that will produce a wonderfully watchable copy02:37
DocScrutinizerif they could the'd issue a revokable crypo-cert for your brain as well02:37
wolfspraulfine02:37
wolfspraullet them spend their dollars on this :-)02:38
wolfspraulso I also want 'trusted computing', why not. I want to trust the servers that my 'apt-get update' reaches out to.02:38
wolfsprauldefinitely02:38
DocScrutinizernah, it's guys like Carsten Munk (mer) who actively paricipate in development of this security framework crap02:38
DocScrutinizervoluntarily02:38
wolfspraula really trustworthy cloud backup service would also be nice02:38
wolfspraulmeaning that what is in the cloud is stored in such a way that it is completely and irretrievably encrypted without a key only I am holding on02:39
DocScrutinizerthat's age old PGP aka PKI02:39
wolfspraulnot that the cloud provider sniffs my data for whatever reasons, subjects it to legal action, break into their servers, etc.02:40
DocScrutinizerno need for a chain-of-trust with a root cert burned into the rom of your PC02:40
wolfspraulyes of course02:40
wolfspraulwe agree02:40
wolfspraulI'm just saying the word 'trusted computing' is cast so carefully it's hard to say no02:40
DocScrutinizerindeed02:40
DocScrutinizerhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing#02:41
DocScrutinizeractually what's written at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing#Criticism in first indented paragraph >>[...] software suppliers can make it much harder...<< was not exactly a scenario I had on my radar. But it's one of the most plausible reasns why industry is pushing this crap02:54
wolfspraulnice, some spam in the wiki06:34
wolfspraulcleaning up spam is so rewarding, immediate satisfaction :-)06:34
wpwrak;-))06:34
wpwrakspam indicated that people think their message will be read. sort of a seal of approval :)06:35
wpwraks/ed/es/06:36
wolfspraulI think nowadays it's mostly either bots, or seo side-effects06:39
wolfspraullike some kid sitting in some office trying all sorts of things06:39
wolfspraulhis screaming boss behind him all the time to reach whatever stupid metric the company has to measure 'success'06:39
wolfspraulit's sad, but I guess everything needs to be tried...06:39
fossrox_hi guys, this is really a crap http://fossforce.com/2011/07/microsoft-tax-on-linux-devices/06:40
wolfspraulaha06:40
wolfspraulwithout clicking on the link, Werner said nobody would get worked up over such stories...06:40
wolfspraul:-)06:40
wolfspraulbut there comes our first angry fellow06:41
wolfspraulI knew those stories would come...06:42
wolfspraulfossrox_: so what do you think about it? can you elaborate a bit more what you mean with 'is crap'?06:42
wolfspraulwhat's your action plan?06:43
fossrox_i get worried because of few reasons: 1. patent is an attack on freedom of thought in a world where kids are able to make great designs, 2. if development is driven by entities forcing contributors to resign from copyright (specifically copyleft), such entity can be sold, become danger and cause harm to community since the sold entity would be exclusive copyright holder able to change policies06:45
wolfspraulhow do you translate your worries into actions?06:46
fossrox_wolfspraul, my stand is to not use any proprietary work in life, including hardware, software, and culture, and i do what i can to achieve that and help others06:46
fossrox_i started with friends this project: http://robse.org06:46
wolfspraulif you live in a patent infested country, you can try to lobby against patents06:46
wolfspraulif you want to make me happy, you can buy a Ben NanoNote or Milkymist One from me :-)06:47
fossrox_http://www.rbose.org/ <-- this is the correct link, sorry06:47
wolfsprauldoes it make Android a bad thing that Microsoft uses patents to tax it?06:47
fossrox_wolfspraul, i want to see production means distributed as much as possible, educate people how to make their own, make the society happy :)06:49
wolfspraulnice site, never knew about it before - thanks!06:49
fossrox_yw, we linked to qi-hardware there :)06:50
wolfspraulI think it's very broad though, when I see this kind of thing I actually want to make Qi more narrow/focused :-)06:50
wolfspraulthat's just my gut feeling06:50
stefan_schmidt*yawn* morning folks06:50
wolfspraulmorning :-)06:50
wolfspraulthanks for linking!06:50
fossrox_http://www.rbose.org/wiki/OSH_list <--- in the General section :)06:51
fossrox_an in computer section as well06:52
fossrox_wolfspraul, do you know maybe this video http://vimeo.com/19950597 ?06:56
fossrox_from my perspective as long we are more happy that people buy stuff from us, than we are happy because they easily copy it and build it on their own, we are doing it the wrong way, enjoying scarcity, but that's my perspective07:00
wolfsprauljust watch out that one day, the only thing that remains of free software/culture in the world are theories... that's the danger of being too far high up there somewhere...07:14
wolfspraulso make it real07:15
wolfspraulyou can also make something and give it away, but the other day I was lectured about 'learned helplessness', so maybe that's also not it07:16
wolfspraullet's stop the world until everybody knows everything. then things should be perfect. :-)07:17
fossrox_let me add to wiki something what might be interesting for you, was working on that last days07:22
fossrox_wolfspraul, http://www.rbose.org/wiki/Free_Spectrum_list do you know about such solutions?07:26
wolfspraulsaw the video, and I've heard about openfarmtech.org before07:26
wpwrakwolfspraul: (nobody would get worked up) i didn't say that ;-) my statement was that this wouldn't be perceived as invalidating the objectives of free software.07:26
wolfspraulnot my thing07:26
wolfspraulI feel in the end it's very distrustful of other people's work, I think that's the main thing that makes me feel uneasy07:27
wolfspraulwhy distract everybody and everything?07:27
wolfsprauldistrust07:27
wolfsprauldon't get it07:27
wpwrakwolfspraul: also, the atrocity is in the patent system. mere applications don't change that, though they may serve to drive the point home07:27
wolfspraulbut of course it's a nice project. I'll watch the next video in a year or so :-)07:27
wolfspraulbut I enjoy my Latte at Starbucks07:27
wolfsprauland I like a modern world and modern stuff, like my new video synthesizer07:28
wolfspraulI want to build trust with more people and companies, not less07:28
wolfspraulsourcemap.org is pretty cool imho07:28
wolfspraulthat's my feelings after watching the video...07:29
wolfspraulfossrox_: guifi.net07:30
wolfspraulhttp://fabfi.fablab.af/07:31
fossrox_thanks :)07:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x00-0x7f (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c47f52d09:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/1ad868309:15
xiangfu`http://milkymist.org/wiki/index.php?title=Patches 11:09
jow_laptopkyak: didn't you want ctrl-r support in busybox ash?14:02
jow_laptop07:37 < CIA-79> vda.linux master * ra669eca3a230 busybox/libbb/ (Config.src lineedit.c): libbb/lineedit: implement optional Ctrl-R history search14:02
kyakjow_laptop: yeah, that was partly my effort. My two patches basically got rejected, and then one of busybox developers reworked it and commited16:26
kyakguess he just felt pity looking at my code :)16:31
kyakit would be great to backport it to our busybox version and use it in openwrt16:35
kyaki will have a look, since i anticipated this feature so :)16:36
kristianpaulcontro -r will be sweet16:42
kristianpaulwelll ther is history than can savbe you typing16:42
kristianpaulbut all is valid on small keybaord[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cs16:42
kristianpauldamn ipv6 link is slow...16:46
kyakjow_laptop: https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9695 - could you please have a look occasionaly?18:15
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/board_app.c (INT0_vect): limit interrupt serials to 0x80-0xff (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/7cae01b20:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/Makefile (bindist): new target to upload and describe atusb.bin (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e700b8120:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: added "HardMAC" support (not yet using the TRX's MAC) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c10713020:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: libatrf: added HardMAC functions (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/862b55420:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/lib/: added HardMAC functions to the atusb drivers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/49d606720:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: tools/atrf-txrx/: added option -H to enter simple HardMAC mode (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/562128220:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: some small "HardMAC" fixes (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/da7803a20:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:ben-wpan (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/23c24f620:51
--- Wed Jul 13 201100:00

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