#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-07-06

wpwrakhmm, my pc is getting fat and slow. almost 200 seconds for a cache-cold kernel build :-(01:38
wolfspraulI read that Microsoft is now asking for, and getting, 5-12 USD per Android device02:35
wpwrakwe should do that too :)02:35
wolfspraulI find it interesting because it creates a communication challenge for copyleft hardware02:36
wpwrakmaybe a little more, because microsoft are already rich, so we need it more :)02:36
wolfspraulfirst it devalues copyright, the whole concept02:36
wolfspraulthen it goes about the 'microsoft tax' that some people still feel passionate about in totally new ways02:36
wpwrakhow does it devalue copyright ?02:37
wolfspraulthen it creates this impression that "unless you pay for patents _somewhere_, it's 'illegal'"02:37
wpwrakwell, the patent system is pretty much like that ...02:37
wolfspraulbecause it doesn't matter who owns the copyright (free software / open source), what matters is who owns strong patents :-)02:37
wolfspraulso it definitely devalues the entire concept of copyright, _especially_ for free software02:37
wpwraksomeone will certainly have some patent that you can be interpreted as interfering with, whatever you do02:37
wolfspraulsure, of course02:38
wolfspraulwe are protected by our size, etc.02:38
wolfspraulbut that is hard to communicate, and hard to get passion behind02:38
wolfspraulif this Android trend really continues, Microsoft may make more money from it than Google!02:39
wpwraki'm not sure it devalues the copyright per se. both systems are restrictive - by default, you're not allowed to do anything. you can only be granted rights.02:39
wolfspraulsure it devalues copyright, to the outside02:39
wolfsprauloutsider02:39
wpwrakof course, it devalues the assertion that Free whatever is truly free02:39
wolfspraulyes02:39
wolfsprauland that 'free software' has anything to do with 'microsoft tax'02:39
wolfspraulAndroid proves that it does not. wrong subject guys, the rules have changed. :-)02:40
wolfspraulwhile you are still perfecting your signed-by chains, the money is already following completely different rules...02:40
wolfspraulwhile it was only some trolls, we could dismiss it as something like a natural disaster02:41
wolfspraulbut now it's Microsoft taxing Android, and it seems to be growing02:41
wolfspraulI already expect the press articles that the 'free software' concepts are a thing of the past, etc.02:42
wpwrakperhaps the best approach is to just set up a proxy company for each product. bill it all the cost, including R&D. if it's successful and the then inevitable patent strike happens, let it go bankrupt02:42
wolfsprauloh sure, in the real world I'm not worried one bit02:42
wolfspraulit creates a perception/motivation challenge02:42
wolfspraulnot on my end :-)02:42
wolfspraulbut with others, I think (that's my question)02:43
wpwrakis M1.org set up accordingly ?02:43
wolfspraulwhat do you mean?02:43
wpwrakor, rather, who will be the business end behind M1 ?02:43
wolfspraulmy point is that it may demotivate people to engage in free software02:43
wolfspraulnah, there is no patent risk in Milkymist/NanoNote/OpenWrt/any of this02:44
wpwrakit may02:44
wolfspraulI'm not worried about that at all.02:44
wpwrakalways the optimist ;-)02:44
wolfspraulno it's not02:44
wolfspraulI take that risk, done.02:44
wpwrakdon't you think there are *some* patents that cover *something* in M1 ?02:44
wpwrakc'mon :)02:44
wolfspraulthat's the wrong question02:44
wolfspraulbecause that is already true for every line of C code for at least 10 years02:45
wpwrakthe real question is if it has a chance to appear on the patenteer's radar02:45
wpwrakso if you succeed, you die02:45
wolfspraulof course not, way too small02:45
wpwrakif you fail, you can do so in peace02:45
wolfsprauland too risky (for them)02:45
wolfspraulbut if you grow (and make money), many people will be attracted by the money that they know you have02:45
wolfspraulthe patent guys will be just one of 10-20 groups to watch out for02:46
wolfspraulyou misunderstood my point02:46
wpwrakconclusion: you should make sure no money accumulates02:46
wolfspraulit's not me who is worried or demotivated02:46
wolfspraulI'm wondering what this development means to the bigger copyleft hardware/software picture, and how to communicate it to newcomers02:46
wolfspraulno no02:46
wolfspraulyou can accumulate money, but then you need to deal with who comes and wants a share :-)02:46
wolfspraulthat's natural02:46
wolfspraulmy point is - don't you think that the development that Microsoft, of all people, is taxing Android, makes a difference in the free software world?02:47
wpwrakthis mess is a completely normal consequence of the way the patent system works. absolutely nothing new there. maybe it will help more people to understand why patents are evil.02:47
wolfspraulthe 'avoid microsoft tax' argument is definitely mood now02:48
wpwrakmaybe some will have a rude awakening02:48
wolfspraulat least that needs to be removed from all sites, I'm sure it's still somewhere on gnu.org or fsf campaign pages...02:48
wolfspraulyou can't continue to make that claim while Microsoft is counting the money it makes from free software02:48
wpwrakandroid could still avoid it. but then they'd have to give up control. sell bare linux machines.02:49
wolfspraulthat won't happen. all the big players will pay.02:49
wolfspraulI think after HTC and Acer did, it's a done deal.02:49
wpwrakyeah, of course. but it's for their control that they're really paying.02:49
wolfspraulit creates a perception/communication problem02:50
wolfspraulok, let me ask this way02:50
wolfspraulimagine you run a site that explains the advantages of free software to newbies02:50
wolfspraulok?02:50
wolfsprauland somewhere you have the 'avoid microsoft tax' argument02:50
wolfspraulwould you remove it? or keep it? add some notes to it?02:50
wpwrakperhaps we should then communicate the subtle difference between a blank and clean linux system and the bundle with all sorts of patent infringements. for all we know, the patents that affect android may even be on non-free code.02:50
wpwraki think the argument is still valid. maybe explain why this case doesn't invalidate the argument but merely adds some constraints.02:51
wpwraklike you can't sell a freerunner with lovely free mplayer and open source mp3 codecs. at least not for long without trouble ;-)02:52
wolfspraulyes but that was contained, now it gets bigger02:52
wpwrakthere is no containment with patents ;-)02:52
wolfspraulthe amount ms charges is roughly the same as they would get for a winmobile license02:52
wolfspraulso you admit that:02:52
wolfspraulfree software is only about copyrights, it's a specialist thing for lawyers02:53
wolfspraulcopyrights are not that important in the business world, when it's about making money02:53
wolfspraulthat's how you want to tell newcomers about free software?02:53
wpwrakcopyrights are very important. you're mixing things incorrectly.02:53
wpwrakyou create revenue by imposing restrictions02:54
wpwraklike a corrupt customs official who doesn't let your goods through02:54
wolfspraulyep02:54
wolfspraul:-)02:54
wolfspraulthe oldest business model in the world, probably02:54
wpwrakthen you get paid for relaxing the restrictions on a case by case basis02:54
wolfspraulsetup a toll booth02:54
wpwrakand have some thugs nearby02:54
wpwraktoday the thugs wear suits, but their ethics haven't changed much02:55
wolfspraulbut if free software focuses on copyrights, its reach and power is limited by the growing power of patents?02:55
wolfspraulwe will have a hard time countering such an argument02:55
wolfspraulit goes so far that someone will say "unless you pay one of the big guys, your stuff is illegal"02:56
wolfspraulwhich we've heard already 1000 times when we still did phones02:56
wpwrakof course it is limited by patents. where have you been the last one or two decades ? ;-)02:56
wolfspraulnah02:56
wolfspraulbefore there were trolls, or big corps in cross-licensing deals02:56
wolfspraulnow we have Microsoft taxing Android02:57
wpwrakin europe, they've waged a little war against software patents02:57
wolfspraulthe 'open source posterchild' by some, still02:57
wolfspraulthat is a strong story, and it will spread02:57
wolfsprauland what we discuss here in our niche 50-people copyleft hardware irc channel is completely irrelevant compared to that02:57
wpwrakduh. truth be told, that story doesn't bother me much. what bothers me is the patent system that allows all such niceties.02:58
wolfspraulHTC and Acer pay now, I think everybody will over the next 12 months02:58
wolfspraulbut it may create a motivation problem for newcomers02:58
wolfspraulwith HTC and Acer paying, they got all of Taiwan. Every Taiwanese OEM will now enter negotiations and pay.02:59
wpwrakthey can't limit the sharing of information this way. they can only limit production, shipping, and sales02:59
wolfspraulyou know that02:59
wolfspraulnext they need to tackle South Korea and Japan, they are probably on it already02:59
wpwrakalso, you can try to find regional work-arounds02:59
wpwraklook at pharmaceuticals. there, they had the same things happening03:00
wolfspraulgood thing that we don't use Android, phew03:00
wpwrak;-)03:00
wolfspraulsoon if you have an Android device without paying for patents, the automatic assumption will be 'illegal'03:00
wpwrakyou seem really rattled :)03:00
wolfspraulI think about the impact on newcomers.03:01
wolfsprauland I do think it makes a difference, but we see03:01
wolfspraulthe 'microsoft tax' was a big thing to attract people to free software03:01
wolfspraulyou will certainly agree03:01
wpwrakwell, you can try to find out which patents exactly they pay for. see which apply to the free part of android, which to the non-free part.03:01
wolfspraulnah03:01
wolfspraulnobody will talk about that03:01
wpwrakthen see which apply to sectors we already know are poisoned03:01
wolfspraulit will just be "Android patents - Microsoft"03:01
wolfspraulthe smaller OEMs won't even look at the details03:02
wolfspraulHTC & Acer pay - we pay as well03:02
wolfsprauldone03:02
wpwraki thought you were worried about newcomers ?03:02
wolfspraulI mean individuals that discover free software.03:02
wolfspraulpeople, not companies03:02
wpwrakso explain to them why this doesn't mean the end of free software. see above.03:03
wpwrakandroid just happens to be set up such that the MS tax can be collected. that's part of their strategy. the problem is there (and in the patent system) not in free software or hardware per se.03:04
wpwrakwith the provisio that free hardware is always more vulnerable than software, which is also something we know well03:05
wpwraknow what you can do is write some witty and insightful posting to the qi-hw list that ridicules stupid android for feeding the microtroll :)03:07
wpwraka practical consequence of patent risks is that you should build firewalls against attacks, in case a project actually does take off. i don't think you've considered that yet.03:08
wpwrakwhen the attack comes, you can't do much to protect your future revenue. but you can at least protect your past revenue.03:08
wpwrakthe best strategy is probably to just throw the towel and get a lot of press attention03:09
wpwrakbut make sure your past revenue is secure. the patenteers don't usually come before you've made some substantial amount of money03:09
wpwrakthus it would be good to know what assets are protected. e.g., salaries most likely are. compensations for external providers not involved in the decision process probably too. not sure if this changes if they are part of the decision process.03:11
wpwrak(salaries) of employees. not sure about management.03:12
wolfspraulhe03:15
wolfspraulunderstood03:16
wolfspraulyou worry too much03:16
wolfspraulI will not write any mail about this, waste of time. And also I try to stay positive, not sure what the positive angle here is.03:16
wolfspraulfor you and me nothing changed, whether Acer pays for the MS patents or not03:17
wpwrakyou're funny. first you complain about the sky falling, then you say i worry too much ;-)03:17
wolfspraulor HTC or others03:17
wolfspraulI wonder whether this development makes a difference to _NEWCOMERS_ who look at free software in 2011 for the first time03:17
wolfspraulsomeone born in 199803:17
wolfspraulI expect many stories along those lines in coming months. And at least the old 'microsoft tax' arguments, which rely on copyright, won't work anymore. Since this is a tax beyond copyright.03:19
wolfspraulso it may impact someones willingness to learn more about copyright, overall03:19
wolfspraulif that's not what matters anyway...03:19
wolfspraulI am strictly thinking this through from the perspective of a newcomer.03:19
wpwrakpatents have been the big enemy for a very very long time. copyright is our tool, not our problem.03:21
wpwrakif you take copyright away, all GPL becomes BSD, all CC-BY-SA becomes CC-BY. not the end of the world, but a difference.03:22
wpwrakif we don't actually steal code from somewhere, copyright is not against us. attempts to plant false accusations against us have been quite unsuccessful, even if spectacular (e.g., SCO)03:23
wpwrakpatents are the enemy. have always been. patents are evil. if you think what is the foundation of what we consider humanity, they are crimes against it. patenteers should be judged and hanged ;-)03:25
wolfsprauland why should someone join a free software project if it's uneffective against this 'evil' thing anyway?03:27
wolfspraulyou basically say the two are completely unrelated03:27
wpwrakbecause free software still escapes patents while it remains pure03:27
wolfspraulalright03:28
wolfspraulI got it03:28
wolfspraulthe Microsoft-Android thing will still hang very big over this though, I'm sure03:28
wpwrakand you can create an incentive for parts of the world that have less to gain from patents to seek a different path. because doing so, they allow themselves to benefit from free software also when "impure"03:28
wpwrak(android) yeah. perhaps the ambiguous nature of android could use some rehashing03:30
wpwrak*grin* found something :)03:31
Action: wpwrak likes the look of four screens around himself03:37
Action: wpwrak should add a fifth for a ben with ubb-vga :)03:37
kristianpaulso now we can said "patent free, or almost patent free" ?03:50
kristianpaulwhen talking about M1 :-)03:50
Action: kristianpaul hides from wpwrak 03:51
kristianpaulhe, just kidding 03:52
wpwraki wouldn't use "patent free". i don't like that this has been tagged on ben-wpan either. you can only declare something as "patent-free" in a retrospective perspective03:52
kristianpaulsure sure i know that03:53
kristianpauldicuss that with rejon first :)03:53
wpwrakkristianpaul: naw, he has to do some money-begging missions to do. i'll be nice to him until that's done ;-)03:59
kristianpaul:-)04:00
wpwrakkristianpaul: how's your data gathering ? i lost a bit track of it, sorry. does it look better now ?04:05
kristianpaulwpwrak: i dint tried offline processing (even now that finally got SoftGNSS code for complex numbers), i finishing the port for one channel correlator from namuru04:10
kristianpauli dint tried again*04:10
wpwrakso maybe next weekend will be the moment of the breakthrough ? :)04:11
kristianpaulat least i know what to do,and where look for 04:12
kristianpaulyou maybe remenber i pastebin some mail from namutu developer with some comments about the porting04:12
kristianpaulvery usefulls btw, plus i know what can fail and with scope i can debug it 04:13
kristianpaulwpwrak: breakthrough for C/A matching i think so, if all went okay04:13
kristianpauls/matching/tracking04:14
wpwrakheh, cool :)04:15
wpwraki admire your endurance. i don't know many people who wouldn't have given up months ago.04:15
kristianpaulwell, 8 months ago i dint knew  nothing about GNSS/GPS, now i cant said that :-)04:16
rejonha04:33
kyakwpwrak: do you know if lowpan-tools would work fine with libnl-2?07:51
kyakor libnl-1 is a must?07:51
kyakoh yea, libnl-1 is a msut07:55
qi-bot[commit] kyak: libnl-1: initial port (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/a92f8c408:36
qi-bot[commit] kyak: lowpan-tools: initial port (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f4a8c6a08:36
lekernelanyone knows about gunnplexers here?08:37
lekernelI scavenged three 24-GHz ones yesterday from automatic door radars, and they have an empty diode slot marked "IF2"08:37
lekernelI'm wondering if I could throw a varactor in there to make tunable gunnplexers08:37
lekernelthe IF2 slot is the same as the (populated) IF1 slot, and it'd even be better if I could use the reverse-biased detector diode from another gunnplexer as varactor (since those critters are usually extremely expensive and difficult to order...)08:40
wpwrakgrmbl. shouldn't lit down to "briefly think about a problem"09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: drivers/spi/Kconfig: clarified description of CONFIG_SPI_ATUSB (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c211a3309:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: drivers/spi/atusb.c: some cleanup (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/2c9194d09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: corrected freeing of setup packet in atusb_read1, maybe atusb_write (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/bccb41009:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: don't allow writes to TRX_CTRL_0 (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c28c1cb09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: converted atusb_get_static_info to use usb_control_msg (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/429510e09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: ignore interface unless class is USB_CLASS_VENDOR_SPEC (0xff) (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/23d5eb709:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: merged USB control message submission into common function (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/e803b8109:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: clean up interface of atusb_read1 and atusb_write (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/191d55a09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: make atusb_transfer access x[0] less (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/548e7cf09:40
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: corrected error and message length handing for transfers (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b12e0e709:40
wpwrakat least not before first pushing :)09:41
qi-bot[commit] kyak: lowpan-tools: install the ieee802145.h header in build root (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f0e3a3309:46
qi-bot[commit] kyak: ben-wpan tools: initial port (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3d9355709:46
wpwrakwhee !09:46
kyak:)09:47
wpwrakkyak: with -g (using SDL_gfx) for atrf-rssi and atrf-path ?09:47
kyaklemme check it09:48
wpwrakzrafa: now it has happened: jlime has fallen behind openwrt on the features. you don't have these packages yet (at least ben-wpan tools didn't exist in this form back then :)09:48
kyakwpwrak: how do i select the SDL_gfx driver?09:49
wpwrakkyak: by compiling for jlime ;-) back then, SDL_gfx wasn't in the openwrt SDK and i haven't rebuild that one for a while. is it now there ? i also need libgsl (GNU Scientific Lib) for atrf-path09:50
wpwrakerr, no, atrf-xtak09:50
wpwrakxtaL09:50
kyakwpwrak: SDL_gfx is in openwrt for.. a while now09:51
wpwrakwhat's the easiest/recommended way to get a host cross-development environment now ?09:52
kyakthe easiest would be to follow the steps from "Compiling your own image"09:54
kyakperhaps it is possible with SDK, but i didn't try it for real09:54
wpwrakah, no gsl requires for now. that's only used in the atusb variant. may come later, though. it's such a useful library :)09:55
wpwrakhmm, the instructions in http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Compiling_for_the_NanoNote aren't nice10:04
wpwrakvery intrusive way of setting up a cross-compilation, with STAGING_DIR exposed in the Makefile ...10:05
wpwrakand http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image still has the mystery dependency on jikes :)10:06
kyaki wouldn't follow these instructions10:06
kyakthe best way for Compiling_for_the_NanoNote is creating an openwrt Makefile10:07
wpwrakso .. where are the good ones ? i didn't find anything for "Compiling your own image"10:07
kyakBuilding_Software_Image will leave you with a cross-development environment10:07
wpwrak(jikes) ah, there's a download link now. seems that it's still needed then10:07
kyakjikes - not needed10:08
kyaknot really necessary to build the whole image of course10:08
wpwraksp can the jikes dependency be safely dropped then ?10:08
kyakhttp://dpaste.com/563756/10:09
kyakwhat's wrong here? how do i activate the SDL_gfx driver?10:09
kyakyeah, just ignore the jikes10:09
kyakdon't worry, openwrt will tell you about missing dependencies10:10
wpwrak(paste) funny: lemme check10:10
wpwrakyou'd need MACROS_ben_openwrt += -DHAVE_GFX10:11
wpwrakbut let me just check if i can get a host toolchain with sdl_gfx. if yes, i'll just drop the whole SDL_gfx or not option10:11
kyakok :)10:12
wpwrakpulling openwrt-xburst changes from the last 8 months ...10:13
wpwrakgrr. tons of merge conflicts10:14
wpwraklet's try a fresh clone ...10:14
kyakwpwrak: sdl-gfx had been there in openwrt since Feb 2010 :)10:21
wpwrakhttp://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image says release_2011-02-23, so this seems to fit10:22
kyaki thought you would follow "Building OpenWrt on last git commmit" :)10:25
wpwrakoh, there's another :-(10:26
kyak(that would actually break your binary compatibility if you using release image)10:26
wpwrakvery well. deleting ...10:26
wpwrakurgh10:26
kyaksorry :)10:26
wpwrakso what should i do ? 10:26
wpwrakcan i use release_2011-02-23 ?10:26
kyakwhat is your current version on Ben?10:27
kyakif you want to keep binary compatibility, build basing on release_2011-02-2310:28
kyakif you plan to reflash the latest trunk image, build using the latest git commit10:28
wpwrakdoes release_2011-02-23 have SDL_gfx ?10:29
kyakyes10:29
wpwrakexcellent. then i'll go for that :)10:29
stefan_schmidthi all10:30
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: any progress last night?10:30
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: ah, you just pushed something10:30
Action: stefan_schmidt looks10:30
wpwrakmake V=99 IGNORE_ERRORS=m  -> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.10:32
wpwrakshould there be a  cd ../..  somewhere after  cd feeds/qipackages/  ?10:32
kyakfeeds/qipackages/ is nothing but a collection of openwrt Makefiles10:35
kyakyou need to be in a top dir of openwrt-xburst10:35
wpwrakso i  cd ../..  right after the  cd feeds/qipackages/ && git checkout release_2011-02-23  ?10:36
wpwrakor after "you may need patch the upstream packages for compile fine. please read the README-**. for example:" ?10:36
wpwrakor after  wget "http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/config" -O .config  ?10:36
wpwrak(i've skipped the manual patches for now. are they required ?)10:37
kyak(reading the instructions) yeah, you need to cd ../..10:37
kyakpatches are not needed for now10:37
wpwrakkewl. make -j4 is running10:39
kyaki'm afraid it is going to build a ton of unnecessary stuff10:39
wpwrakyeah, i know :)10:39
wpwrakthere's no pre-compiled .deb for the SDK, is there ?10:40
kyakyou should've created your .config from scratch10:40
kyakor taken the minimal config and only selected SDL_gfx10:40
wpwraknaw, i want the "standard" SDK. if the standard is loaded with junk, so be it :)10:40
kyakthere is a tar.gz for SDK, but as i said i didn't really try it10:40
wpwrakokay, let's keep this for later :)10:41
Action: wpwrak wonders if that V=99 is such a good idea10:42
kyaknot a good probably :)10:42
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: oops, I freed the wrong urb. The clock disabling is something I was not even aware of. :)10:42
wpwraksubtle, eh ? ;-)10:43
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: sync for the static info is what we had before. I just changed it to get started with async.10:43
kyakyou could restart it without V=99, it shouldn't hurt anything..10:43
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: fine with having it back sync10:43
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: now i'm wrestingling with "long" read and write. read has the little quirk that the first byte does matter. i had overlooked that.10:44
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: (sync) ah, that's why ;-)10:45
wpwrakkyak: naw, then my "time" would reset, too :)10:45
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: hmm, the ignoring of all but vendor spec is an option.10:45
kyakwpwrak: are you into challenge with buildhost? :)10:46
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: and merging the functions was also on my list. Just wanted to have somethign working before doing to much cleanup and make my life even more harder :)10:46
stefan_schmidtheh, and some cleanup in all the tx[0], tx[1], rx+1 naming mess :)10:47
wpwrakkyak: yeah, i want to see how long this should really take :) how good is my competition ?10:49
kyakwpwrak: you are probably about to embarass qi-bot badly :)10:50
wpwrakkyak: let's see. my pc is something like 4 years old. old q6600.10:52
stefan_schmidtheh, the good old openmoko machines. :D10:53
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: yeah, similar specs. bought it in buenos aires, though10:54
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: thought that something harald has spent half a year on spec'ing can't be too bad ;-)10:54
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: yeah, got that far. Would not have make sense to put that one into your luggage ;)10:54
wpwrakkinda invoncenient ;-)10:55
Action: stefan_schmidt has to wait for a complete new kernel build after and gcc upgrade of his distro...11:00
kristianpaulmorning11:02
kristianpaulhttp://spectrum.ieee.org/static/hacker-matrix :-)11:02
wpwrakquick breakfast break ...11:03
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: integrate "buffer" into struct atusb_local, avoiding allocation (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/dfd0ed711:06
kristianpaulkyak: do you know how i can tell qi-bot to follow a github repo for commits?11:08
kyakkristianpaul: currently, it only follows those commits to projects.qi-hardware.com (it is done via integration with git post-receive hooks)11:13
kyaksee here: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Server_Setup#git11:14
wpwrakkyak: btw, regarding http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image, i did the  git checkout -b local-build a0cb48741e20e3f2dd7eb546e57e0ae085eb7a31  variant instead of  git tag; git checkout release_2011-02-2311:20
wpwrakkyak: the  cd feeds/qipackages/ && git checkout release_2011-02-23  later on didn't seem to mind. hope that's good.11:21
wpwrakkyak: (i haven't used git tags yet)11:21
wpwrakmeanwhile, the build is somewhere in a libc ...11:21
wpwrakdoing stuff in parallel, which is a good sign11:22
kyaklet's see how it goes :)11:23
wpwrakGRRR. make[1]: *** [/home/qi/openwrt-xburst/staging_dir/target-mipsel_uClibc-0.9.30.1/stamp/.package_compile] Error 211:27
wpwrakhttp://pastebin.com/Sm9J13Tb11:29
kyakhm.. python build requires tcl libs?..11:30
kyakah. probably just a glitch of multiple jobs11:31
kyakcould you rerun the build, and if it fails again, try without j= ?11:31
wpwrakokay. rerunnig ...11:34
wpwrakbtw,  real    48m29.510s  so far11:34
wpwrakit seems to procees. now it has troubles connecting to http://doolittle.icarus.com/ntpclient/ntpclient_2007_365.tar.gz11:36
wpwrakwhy does it wget stuff from all over the place anyway ? that's deeply unreliable11:37
wpwraknew failure11:38
wpwrakhttp://pastebin.com/z9vEnZFL11:39
wpwrakaah, i like the smell of failed openwrt builds in the morning ;-)11:41
kyakthe problem here is that you are using the latest openwrt feeds while sticking at older openwrt base11:44
kyakthis problem is solved with autoreconf feature, which wasn't probably in 2011-02-23..11:44
kyakand now i'm also wondering why are you basing on 2011-02-23 anyway11:45
wpwrakso the instructions on http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Building_Software_Image don't work ?11:45
kyakthe latest image is 2011-05-2811:45
wpwrakyou said getting anything newer would break binary compatibility ?11:45
kyaki think you'd need to replace 2011-02-23 with 2011-05-28 :)11:45
kyaknope, i said the trunk image would break it11:46
wpwrakis 05-08 still binary-compatible ?11:46
kyak2011-05-28 (the lates release) is still ok11:46
kyakyeah11:46
wpwrakkewl. let's try this then11:46
wpwrakkilling the tree, just to be sure ...11:47
kyakthese dates always confuse me11:47
kyaki thought February was not so long ago11:47
wpwraktime flies when you're having fun ;-)11:47
kyaki will go have something to eat and perhaps update these instructions once and for all11:48
wpwrak*grin*11:48
wpwraki wonder how others get their toolchain. maybe everyone is just using whatever they built the very first time ...11:49
wpwrak(like i did so far)11:49
wpwrakthe  wget "http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/latest/VERSIONS"  also looks a bit suspicious11:53
Action: wpwrak cowardly changes it to wget http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/images/NanoNote/Ben/2011-05-28/VERSIONS11:54
wpwrakbuilding again. i now changed all the "latest" to 2011-05-2812:00
wpwraki think it would be good to have a snapshot that conserves all the external dependencies (downloads) at the time of building. otherwise, the whole thing is a moving target12:01
kyaklatest is a symlink to 2011-05-28 atm12:01
kyaksuch kind of snapshot is saved12:01
kyakthe VERSIONS file12:02
wpwrakah, good. so you'd just need the source tarballs12:02
kyakyou always know what was the base system and feeds state at the moment of release12:02
kyakonce the image is released, source tarballs are also moved to http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/mirror-openwrt-sources/12:03
wpwrak(latest == 2011-05-28) could be. the dates look the same12:03
kyakmust be!12:03
wpwrak(mirror) yes, it seems to fall back to the mirror. but first, it tries the original places. that's risky.12:04
kyakin any case, openwrt download system tries several download urls, and checks the md5sum of a package12:04
kyakso it's not risky12:04
wpwrakyou can still fail because some random site at the far end of the intertubes is congested12:05
wpwrakwell, maybe not fail12:05
wpwrakbut spend a lot of time waiting12:05
kyakso? &12:05
kyakyou have to download the tarball anyway12:05
kyaki'm angry when SF feeds me some mirror every time12:05
kyak*some crappy mirror12:05
wpwrakyeah ;-)12:06
kyakand so i wait12:06
wpwrakSF sucks12:06
kyakthat i won't argue with :)12:06
wpwrakwell, their download system. i have a few projects there but never touched that evil download system. just use them as free web space :)12:06
wpwrakqi-hw projects also has the problem of giving non-downloadable download links if using the download system12:07
wpwrakalmost through toolchain :)12:21
wpwrakthree bored cores are eagerly awaiting what comes next :)12:22
viricAnyone here using some working voip software?12:28
viricbetween computers would be fine, like skype.12:29
viricand I meant free software, ofc.12:29
wpwrakgrmbl. need to do a full distribution upgrade of my test pc before even iz will run :-(((12:51
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: tentative addition of "long" read/write (untested) (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/09294c512:55
kyakwpwrak: i've finished updating the "Building OpenWrt base on release files" section12:55
kyakwpwrak: could you check if your eye catches on something, cause you just went through it?12:56
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: ah, I just hit the long read write case when doing iz attach12:58
stefan_schmidtheh, an XXL buffer12:59
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: maybe you can try to see if it works with this patch. you should be able to send one frame with izchat before it hangs due to the missing interrupt12:59
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: ging to do this right now12:59
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: and you can see if anything actually got sent by watching with atrf-txrx from another pc12:59
wpwrakkewl :)13:00
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: no other pc around right now. And my sniffer hardware is in the lab and I'm at home13:00
wpwrakkyak: thanks ! is the  git branch -a  really useful ?13:03
kyakjust to see what branches are existing13:03
kyakso that you could know which one to checkout13:03
kyakand which one is the latest13:03
wpwrakhmm. but then you should mention that there's a decision to take. most people will read this as a cookbook and just copy and paste13:04
xiangfukyak: (updating the "Building OpenWrt...) thanks13:04
wpwrakso the  cd feeds/qipackages/ && git checkout release_2011-05-28  wasn't necessary after all ? :)  (i remember seeing it say that i'm already here)13:05
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: Async USB succeeded with length 1913:05
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: thats after a write2 classification13:05
wpwrakstefan_schmidt: sound promising :)13:06
kyakwpwrak: yup, not necessary13:06
stefan_schmidtwpwrak: will try to setup something to sniff on the air :)13:06
kyakif you've fetched the feeds.conf13:06
kyakxiangfu: np!13:06
kyakwpwrak: and i added a comment to git branch -a13:08
kyakwpwrak: "sed -i 's/=m$/=n/g' .config" is very important, if you don't want to build a whole bunch of staff (that is not even in release image, and just build as separate packages - "modules")13:09
wpwrakkyak: kewl. the rest looks good. i'm a bit uncertain about the "make" variants. seems that  V=99  would be used for debugging the build process while  IGNORE_ERRORS=m  would be used for just the opposite scenario. so shouldn't it be either   make V=99 (distro-developers)  or  make IGNORE_ERRORS=m (users)  instead of  make V=99 IGNORE_ERRORS=m (first recommendation)  vs.  make (offered as an afterthought)13:09
wpwrak(s/=m/=n/) ah, it's building now ...13:10
kyakperhaps IGNORE_ERRORS=m could be removed at all after there are no =m lines in config13:10
wpwrak(s/=m/=n) will i save more than the hour of build time i've already spent, most of it in the evil single-threaded bootstrap part ? :)13:10
Action: wpwrak wishes it would parallelize packages not inside packages. most spend 90% of their time in configure or similar nonsense, so there's hardly any effect13:12
kyakyou will save a lot of time without =m packages13:13
kyakand it also parallelizes not only inside pacakges13:13
wpwrakthe 6 hours are with or without =m ?13:13
kyakthough it may lead to strange results13:13
kyakfor me it's around 3 hours without =m13:13
kyaki.e. building onyl those pacakges included in official image13:14
wpwrak(parallize) hmm. i rarely see more than one active process at a time13:14
stefan_schmidthmm13:14
kyakdo you run make with j= ?13:14
wpwrakERROR: package/feeds/packages/dante failed to build.13:14
wpwrakluckily, this seems to have been one of those modules :)13:14
wpwrakwith -j 413:14
wpwrakerr, -j413:15
kyakhm... if it is module, it should've been removed13:15
wpwrakno, i this run didn't have the s/=m/=n/13:15
kyakdamn13:15
wpwrakyou did that later :)13:15
kyakhow stupid am i?13:15
wpwrakmmh ?13:15
kyak=n won't work ):13:15
wpwrakhehe ;-)13:15
kyakit has to be # bla bla is not set13:16
wpwrakmaybe /=m/d ? :)13:16
kyakyep. something like you said + make oldconfig..leemmm double check13:16
wpwrakmaybe  make allnoconfig  else it'll ask about the things it forgot about13:16
kyakthere is a yes "" | make oldconfig trick we already use :)13:17
wpwrakhehe :)13:18
wpwrakafk for a bit13:19
kyakok, much better now13:24
wpwrakstefan_: you keep atusb->ctrl_urb for cleanup ?13:31
wpwrakhmm .. nobody seems to use spi->bus_lock_flag. so perhaps we shouldn't either. tricky ...13:37
wpwrakERROR: package/feeds/packages/elfutils failed to build.13:39
wpwrakfairly peaceful so far13:39
stefan_wpwrak: I'm using one atusb in my kvm test system and the other one directly from my host for atrf-txrx but so far nothing showed up during iz attach13:47
stefan_wpwrak: (ctrl_urb) maybe its now longer needed after your reworks. need to check13:48
stefan_wpwrak: (bus_lock_flag) its only useful when we have more then one device on the same SPI bus?13:48
wpwrak(ctrl_urb) i could imagine a role during driver removal, in case there's still something pending. but i'm not entirely sure we need to worry about this case.13:50
wpwrak(bus_lock_flag) let's hope for the best :)13:50
wpwrakERROR: package/feeds/packages/libmicrohttpd failed to build.13:50
wpwrak(still going. all smooth so far.)13:51
stefan_wpwrak: looking through the code it does not make much sense to keep it in the struct. IIRC it was there to get passed around13:51
stefan_wpwrak: I don't see much use of driver removal of it.13:51
stefan_wpwrak: I would say we move it out of the struct and have it only local in submit_control_msg13:52
kyakwpwrak: the list of packages that will fail almost for sure: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-07042011-1513/failed_packages.txt13:54
kyakwpwrak: btw, if sdl-gfx has already built, you can try it13:56
wpwrakkyak: (list) ah, good. still a few more to come then :)13:57
wpwrakkyak: (already built) naw, i'll wait for the whole thing to settle. don't want to chase ghosts :)13:58
kyakhehe, ok :)13:58
stefan_wpwrak: should I kill ctrl_urb from the struct or do you already have it done?13:58
wpwrakno, i haven't touched it yet14:00
stefan_wpwrak: ok, I'll go ahead then14:01
wpwrakwe also don't really need to keep the static info in struct atusb_local. i think you killed the reference to it by kicking out the sysfs files14:04
stefan_wpwrak: hmm, right14:05
wpwraki'll remove it once you push14:05
wpwrakwill make things quite a bit simpler :)14:05
stefan_wpwrak: we don't need the infos if we have different firmware versions with different features?14:05
wpwrakwe can still retrieve and display it14:06
qi-bot[commit] Stefan Schmidt: drivers/spi/atusb: Remove some TODO items (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/2592a9214:07
qi-bot[commit] Stefan Schmidt: drivers/spi/atusb: Remove ctrl_urb from local struct. (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/a7cf06c14:07
wpwrakbut things like atusb_build aren't really necessary beyond that. we can keep major/minor/hw_type, though14:07
stefan_wpwrak: I would keep printing it during probe. Helps for faster debugging14:07
stefan_wpwrak: yeah, major, minor and hw_type have been values I expected we may need later for different fw versions14:08
stefan_Say we have a more intelligent fw later that does beacon handling or have a different protocol14:08
stefan_but we can ignore this for now I think. Just priting them during probe is fine14:09
kristianpaulwiki instructions for building image and toolchain we're nice until some months ago all changed to what you can do on your own14:09
stefan_wpwrak: all changes pushed here14:09
wpwrakpulling ...14:10
wpwraki would just ignore sram read/write for now14:11
wpwrakand i would rename ctrl_urb just to urb ;-)14:11
stefan_wpwrak: please do when you are killing of the other elements14:11
wpwrakyup14:12
stefan_wpwrak: (sram) thats needed for hw address filtering and auto ack later?14:12
stefan_wpwrak: we can leave it out for now but I would need to get it working later14:12
stefan_wpwrak: but having something that works is more important right now14:13
kyakwpwrak: one note: you won't "see" openwrt Makefile for ben-wpan tools because your qipackages feed is pinned to release_2011-05-28 branch14:17
kyakthe best would be to checkout this particular Makefile from the master branch and run make package/symlinks14:18
wpwrakstefan_: i think hw filtering is still in the registers. AES is in SRAM. but that's probably slower than doing it on the host ;-)14:19
kyakor, since you prefer to do it from your own Makefiles, just disregard my comment :)14:20
wpwrakkyak: ;-)14:20
kyaki'll adapt openwrt's Makefile to fit your's then14:20
stefan_wpwrak: (hw filter) ah, thats also different from cc2420 then. Crypto I don't need at all.14:20
wpwrakkyak: maybe you can just reuse mine. if you need any variables, please let me know14:22
wpwrakbuild is at "sed" now14:23
kyakwpwrak: yea, i'll try to do as much work as possible "upstream" (at your side)14:24
kyakwpwrak: though it seems we can't get rid of these: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/openwrt-packages/source/tree/master/ben-wpan/Makefile#L3114:25
kyak-I$(STAGING_DIR)/usr/include for ieee header provided by lowpan-tools14:25
kyakunless you just keep it locally14:25
kyakok, have to go now..14:25
wpwrakkyak: STAGING_DIR sounds very distro-specific. isn't there a more generic name ?14:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: removed atusb_build from struct atusb_local and streamlined "static info" (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/6dfb2e514:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: renamed ctrl_urb to just "urb" (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/0d21f4514:26
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: remove atusb_read2 (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/67a52a614:26
kyak$(STAGING_DIR) expands to something like /home/bas/build/openwrt-xburst/staging_dir/target-mipsel_uClibc-0.9.3214:27
wpwrak(still waiting for my test pc to finish upgrading. then i'll be able to ru(i)n kernels again)14:27
kyakby openwrt build system14:27
zrafawpwrak: there is no a lot of motivation to maintain a distribution for a machine with a fixed number of users. At least we have not gotten many requests from jlime users..14:27
zrafawpwrak: sujan who is using the nn in nepal for schools is using jlime. He did some request which I will try to help 14:27
wpwrakzrafa: maybe they're all quietly happy ? :)14:28
zrafawpwrak: but no for all of them :) (one was: is there some way to watch ppt (M$office) on nn screen for teachers?14:28
wpwrakzrafa: e.g., i use jlime all the time and it just works :)14:28
zrafawpwrak: haha.. maybe :)14:28
wpwrakkyak: (STAGING_DIR) yes, i understand. but isn't there a more generic name for such things ?14:28
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: renamed atusb_read1_cb to atusb_ctrl_cb (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/7b4018514:31
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: remove more unused items (usb_irq, urb_completion) (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/272378714:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: added section titles and moved code in a more logical order (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/0d9f58b14:43
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: honor thine card-punching ancestors (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/300050814:43
stefan_wpwrak: we should also move the prink's to dev_info or dev_dbg14:44
wpwrakmerge some of them away first :)14:45
stefan_heh14:46
wpwrakhere we are14:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: merged error checking and request completion for control transfers (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/247b48a14:58
wpwrak*hmm* ...15:01
wpwrak./configure: line 11314: syntax error near unexpected token `NL,'15:01
wpwrak./configure: line 11314: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(NL, libnl-1)'15:01
wpwrakbut it's installed ... (libnl-dev)15:02
Action: wpwrak hates autocrap15:02
wpwrakblargh make -r world: build failed15:07
wpwrakprobably  make[3] -C feeds/qipackages/ne compile15:08
wpwraktrying the demodularized approach now15:08
stefan_wpwrak: All still working after all the cleanups. Good. :)15:09
stefan_wpwrak: now we need to find out what happens during iz attach and more15:10
wpwrakkyak: yes "" | make oldconfig  still accepts a number of things15:10
wpwrakyup. something gets sent15:22
stefan_wpwrak: seen it on the air?15:23
stefan_wpwrak: With atrf-txrx?15:23
wpwrakaye15:24
wpwrakmaybe you receiver was on the wrong channel15:24
stefan_wpwrak: hmm15:25
wpwrakand the message looks the same as from a ben with atben. nice :)15:26
stefan_wpwrak: aye, 11 != 1515:27
stefan_wpwrak: Really impressed by your remote analyze skills ;)15:27
stefan_same channel gives a packet, yay15:27
wpwraknow, the interrupt ...15:28
roh*g*15:37
wpwrakkyak: make -r world: build failed. Please re-run make with V=99 to see what's going on16:39
wpwraklet'e V=99 then ...16:39
wpwrakgrmbl. fighting ubuntu takes about 80% of the time, the actual driver maybe 20% :-(16:56
wpwraki've now replaced /sbin/init with a shell script. sanity restored.16:57
wpwrakit's amazing just how much doesn't break if you don't launch all their junk16:57
Action: stefan_ re16:58
stefan_wpwrak: heh16:58
stefan_wpwrak: to fancy distro choosen? ;)16:58
stefan_I'm wondering if I have any partial PC around to do some testing between two atusb's as well16:59
wpwraknaw, some 8.10 that lacked packages they had already deleted and that didn't handle an update to ludicrous well either16:59
stefan_hmm, maybe I just use the laptop of my gf with the same kvm setup I use here on mine17:02
stefan_yup, seems the easiest solution17:11
kyakwpwrak: $(STAGING_DIR) - not sure what you mean by "more generic". It also doesn't really matter how you name it, does it?17:36
kyakwpwrak: where does it fail this time? Must be some package belonging to image17:37
wpwrakkyak: seems that it was a parallelism glitch. i let it run for ~1 h with V=99 and without -j and it just kept on going17:39
wpwrakkyak: now back to -j417:39
kyakwpwrak: i dared to do a full build with -j2 once, it failed only once during the process :)18:01
kyak-j4 might be too much for it18:01
stefan_re19:20
stefan_wpwrak: having my test setup with two different pc's now19:20
stefan_wpwrak: starting izcoordinator crashes badly :)19:21
stefan_wpwrak: somewhere from at86rf230_channel19:21
stefan_Interesting. It does not happen if one tried iz assoc before with the same channel19:23
wpwrak(izcoord) ah, how ?19:34
wpwrakjus jad a little nap to refresh my brain :)19:35
wpwrakmeanwhile, OpenWRT build failed around libsdl_mixer .. let's see if this was another parallelism glitch19:36
wpwrakah .. that's why  my interrupts don't get handled ;-)19:44
wpwrakstefan_: shall i just revert 88bf9af396b0ad297328394c29d6ab5ea04e5aac ?19:44
wpwrakopwnwrt build now fails at  make[3] -C feeds/qipackages/pygame compile19:45
wpwraknext at  make[3] -C feeds/desktop/data/hicolor-icon-theme compile. the failures now become more frequent. may have reached some convergence point19:47
kyak))))19:47
kyakyou sould definitely plot it19:48
wpwrakit's a pity that "make" doesn't give any hint at all what happened19:48
kyakmaybe it some kind of a new law19:48
wpwrakit would be nice to at least know which package failed ...19:48
kyakyou mean, not without V=99?19:49
wpwrakyup19:49
wpwrakwith V=99, you get drowned. without it, you're blind. there's something roughly in the middle that's missing ;)19:49
kyakyeah, it's hard to understand what exactly has failed when using more than 1 jobs19:49
wpwrakstefan_: reverted your patch. let's see if the interrupts now get handled ...19:51
wpwrakmeanwhile, in the openwrt camp: next stop,  make[3] -C feeds/qipackages/qstardict compile19:52
wpwraki wonder if openwrt build just randomizes the package order for each run19:53
kyakthat's unlikely :)19:54
wpwrakah, and where do the colors come from ? somebody seems to use a black xterm background. this is very nice, except for those who don't, and who then see things like lime text on beige :-(19:54
wpwraknext stop:  make[3] -C feeds/qipackages/surfraw compile19:54
kyakit's failing on something else19:55
kyakrun in a single job if you need to see it19:55
wpwraklast time i went to single job, it didn't hit anything for more than an hour19:57
wpwraki don't quite trust that build process :)19:57
kyakit just didn't get to the failure point, it must be in another branch of tree that make is building19:58
wpwraknow running single-threaded ...20:00
wpwrakhmm. i get one interrupt, but not two. everything else looks okay. weird.20:04
stefan_wpwrak: (revert) please do. It was just for debugging and failed in earlier stages due to expecting an int20:13
wpwrakkyak: the single-threaded build now runs well, as before when i tried single-threaded20:13
stefan_wpwrak: ah, you already reverted20:13
wpwrakfascinating. now i've managed to hang dmesg ;-)20:14
stefan_heh20:14
Action: stefan_ updates20:14
wpwrakah not, it only becomes invisible :)20:15
stefan_quite useful such an invisible dmesg ;)20:16
wpwrakstefan_: shall i push my current heavily hacked-up version ? (tons of printks all over the place)20:17
stefan_wpwrak: no need20:17
stefan_I stay with what I have and see if I can figure out why it dislikes the channel setting20:17
stefan_Not that easy to debug as it hangs kvm completely20:18
wpwraksounds suckish20:22
wpwrakkyak: single-threaded build seems fine. just horribly slow.20:23
stefan_hmm, need to route the serial console out of kvm it seems. Can't make a clue of the problem without it20:30
kyakwpwrak: as i mentioned, -j2 wasn't so bad for me.. perhaps you could try20:31
wpwrakinterrupts seem to work more or less. let's see if i can actually have some meaningful conversation ...20:32
stefan_wpwrak: yay20:34
wpwrakkyak: ah, now i'm hitting something.  make[3] -C feeds/qipackages/pygame compile20:34
kyakpygame.. not sure if it's a part of the image20:34
wpwrakstefan_: eceived short address 8001, status 00 ;-)20:34
wpwrakcleaning out some of the excessive debugging stuff20:35
stefan_wpwrak: wtf?20:35
stefan_wpwrak: hero!!20:35
stefan_wpwrak: izchat also working?20:35
kyakwpwrak: yeah, it is.. You can just disable it from menuconfig for now20:35
stefan_hmm, should if association works20:36
kyakwpwrak is also running in -j2 :)20:36
kyakbetween ben-wpan and openwrt :)20:36
wpwrakkyak: http://pastebin.com/FrN4Q99z20:37
wpwrakkyak: more like -j3 ... also wrestling with ubuntu :)20:38
kyakwpwrak: hm, that's interesting. You have smpeg installed on host?20:38
wpwrakapparently yes20:39
kyakit's a bug in pygame then20:40
kyaki'll write it down :) just disable it for now20:40
stefan_ha, -nographic and some serial foo for the kernel and getty gives me all the kvm output on the terminal I start it. great :)20:41
wpwrakoh, it gets even more interesting20:41
wpwrakah wiat, thats my xterm that's confused ...20:41
wpwraklemme fix that first20:41
wpwrakremoved. running with j4 again20:42
stefan_holy shit this stack needs some more checks on input data20:45
wpwrakstefan_: error checking ? i didn't see any ;-)20:45
stefan_wpwrak: giving no address behind -s for the coordinator let the whole kernel crash badly :)20:45
stefan_wpwrak: giving him the usual -s 1 and all is fine20:45
wpwrakstefan_: also launching izcoordinator regularly produces some erhm, interesting output20:46
stefan_wpwrak: waiting for your int code now to test myself between two stations20:46
wpwrakjust a moment. almost done trimming down the printks ...20:47
stefan_wpwrak: take your time. Need to get some sweets and something to drink20:47
stefan_feels great btw that its near to working now20:47
stefan_even if it took me over a week for the small steps and you only two days to get it into a working state20:48
stefan_I put this under experience ;)20:48
wpwrakget a baileys, drambuie, or jaegermeister, then you have both :)20:48
wpwrak(experience) yeah, it helps sometimes :)20:49
stefan_wpwrak: btw, HQ of jaegermeister is only 18km from here :)20:52
wpwrakwow. have you installed a pipeline yet ?20:52
stefan_wpwrak: but I had enough bear, whisky and rum the weekend. Partying until dawn two days in a row was pretty hard though20:52
stefan_wpwrak: quite funny that a lot people now about wolfenbuettel because of jaegermeister20:53
wpwrakstefan_: tell me about it .... FISL was taxing20:53
stefan_wpwrak: :)20:53
wpwrak*grin*20:53
wpwrakoopsie. now i broke something20:56
wpwrakhmm. seems that  can't defer interrupts the way i'm doing it now21:00
wpwrakguess i'll need a tasklet21:00
wpwraklet's see if the thing now always crashes ...21:01
wpwrakkyak:  make[3] -C target/sdk install takes an interesting amount of time21:02
wpwrakah, bzip2 :)21:02
wpwrakdoens't crash all the time. good. time to commit21:02
kyakwpwrak: yeah, but good news is that you are almost done :)21:03
wpwrakdone ! :)21:04
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: Revert "ieee802154/at86rf230: Be more verbose and disable irq handling for now" (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/7a7da9821:14
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: added tentative interrupt support (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/7fa3bd321:14
Jay7http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/nD-gaming-device/21:17
Jay7looks very alike NN :)21:18
Jay7someone should contact Robert Pelloni and show him NN :)21:19
stefan_wpwrak: yay, assoc works fine21:33
stefan_wpwrak: should we make atusb less chatty?21:33
stefan_wpwrak: like using vdbg or removing the prints completely21:34
kyakwpwrak: congratulations :)21:35
wpwrakwait .. first the functional bugs. converting to tasklets now ...21:35
stefan_wpwrak: ok21:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: converted interrupt delivery to use tasklets (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/edb55e121:54
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: added interrupt URB removal on cleanup (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/64e032221:54
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: moved firmware version info before AT86RF230 driver bringup (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/4c977e421:54
stefan_wpwrak: izchat works fine here22:02
wpwrakkewl :)22:03
stefan_wpwrak: thats really great. Finally I can go back to work on the layers above the kernel22:03
stefan_wpwrak: Need to start working on my basic lowpan perf tool again22:03
wpwrakthere are still a few issues left. fixing ...22:05
stefan_wpwrak: already tested dirtpan?22:05
wpwraknot yet. still have too many known bugs :)22:06
stefan_heh22:06
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: initially disable the interrupt delivery tasklet (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/206feca22:09
wpwrakone less22:09
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: correctly print the build date (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/c35f50f22:14
wpwrakand another small irritation less22:14
stefan_wpwrak: the junk behind the date? Buffer to long?22:14
wpwraknot NUL-terminated22:14
wpwraksee commit log ;-)22:15
wpwraknew acronym: RTFL ;-)22:15
stefan_ build[retval] = 0;22:15
stefan_Thats a neat way of express a NULL termination :)22:15
wpwrakpretty standard, no ?22:16
stefan_It should as the len is often given by the return value but I never seen it like this22:16
stefan_perhaps I just don't remember22:17
wpwrakkyak: interesting ... in my build from Oct 30  2010, my toolchain was toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.3222:28
wpwrakkyak: now it seems to be toolchain-mipsel_gcc-4.3.3+cs_uClibc-0.9.30.122:29
wpwrakkyak: does this make sense ?22:29
wpwrakhmm .. warning: implicit declaration of function 'strtof'22:31
wpwrakyet i #include <stdlib.h>, which is also what POSIX says i should do22:32
wpwrakit links okay, so the function is around22:32
wpwrakand no SDL, it seems :-(22:36
wpwrakyeah. no sign of it22:36
wpwraksigh22:37
wpwrakreverted to older but more up to date toolchain. let's give this another try in a while then22:41
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: implement interrupt synchronization via a 10 ms delay timer (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/eb1a51e23:18
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: updated to do list and added missing \n to dev_info (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/1b9d72f23:52
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb: adjusted dev_* severity levels (ben-wpan-stefan) http://qi-hw.com/p/qi-kernel/b00372523:52
--- Thu Jul 7 201100:00

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!