#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-06-03

wpwrakwhitequark: for atben, they're in tools/lib/atben.c00:01
wpwrakwhitequark: atusb doesn''t bit-bang but uses the SPI controller in the MCU. code in atusb/fw/spi.c00:01
wpwrakwhitequark: there's also unusual bitbanging in tools/atrf-xtal/atben.c (unusual in the sense that they're not used for the regular register interface)00:03
wpwrakwhitequark: of course, none of this has anything to do with the kernel :) for that, you need to look at the qi-kernel tree. there, i just use the regular spi-bitbang driver, slow as it is00:04
wpwrakwhitequark: so the answer depends a lot on what exactly you're looking for ;-)00:04
Model_MDoes the libncurses-dev package provide the libraries for gcc-mips?00:07
wpwrakhmm, what is "libcurses-dev package", what are "the libraries" and what is "gcc-mips" ? ;-)00:10
wpwrakthere are certainly libcurses-dev packages in existence that provide libraries compiled with gcc for some MIPS target00:11
whitequarkwpwrak: I'll decide tomorrow probably. it's 4:10 already...00:11
wpwrakwhitequark: ;-))00:12
Model_MHmm, well I just recently got the nanonote, so I'm only familiar with the packages provided at qi-hardware.com So I refer to the libncurses-dev package provided there. As well as the gcc compiler provided there. The libraries would be the libraries required to compile a program using ncurses.00:19
wpwrakthere are two distributions there, openwrt and jlime. they're unfortunately not library-compatible. but as long as you pick things consistently from the same, what you wrote ought to be correct.00:21
wpwrak(the distribution the ben comes with is openwrt)00:22
wpwrakah, and i don't know which version they pre-install. so if it's very old, you may have to upgrade first00:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: gtkguitune: for tuning guitars and other instruments by using the method of Schmitt-triggering http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/6c1f17402:54
kyakxiangfu: note that link from qi-bot is not working -\05:26
kyakThe build was successfull, see images here:05:26
kyakshould be "openwrt-xburst.trunk-full_system-06012011-1849/"05:26
wolfspraulkyak: which link is not working?05:33
kyakwolfspraul: the one qi-bot is announcing once the build has finished05:35
wolfsprauloh it does?05:57
Fusini guessed it ;)06:09
kyakFusin: you might've noticed that qi-bot is referring to him as just "Bill"06:11
kyakthey are good friends06:12
wpwrakfirst nokia, now qi-hw ... what's the world coming to ?06:14
Fusini thought his name came from the fact, that those who use his software are passing a Gates of Bills, hence Bill Gates :P06:15
Fusinshitty waiting-day 06:17
Action: Fusin waits technician from telco to reconnect his DSL-line... 06:17
wpwrakFusin: always fun to have to wait for some to ring your doorbell :)07:03
wpwrakinteresting ... if i have two pointers  volatile uint32_t *foo, *bar;  and i use them in an assignment of the type  *foo = *bar = value;  then gcc seem to drop one of the stores08:04
wpwrakhah, worse. it does the equivalent of08:15
wpwrak*bar = value;08:15
wpwrak*foo = *bar;08:15
wpwrakit has a certain logic to it ... but seems wrongish nevertheless08:16
Fusinas Mr. Spock said: fascinating.08:17
wpwrakANSI C leaves this ambiguous. the value of the assignment should be "the value stored". that could be either.08:18
wpwrakah well, splitting the assignment then08:18
Fusinand Yoda says: Not the logic important is, results matters08:18
larscwpwrak: the compiler did exactly what you told it08:20
wpwrakFusin: atrf-gpio says "hzHhhl"08:20
wpwraklarsc: depends on how you interpret what the "stored" value of an assignment expression ought to be. the value that was _written_ or the value that can be _read_ after writing.08:22
whitequarkwpwrak: regarding the bitbanging, I was interested in the method used to access atben, so it probably rules out atusb stuff and in-kernel spi driver (you don't use that right?)08:33
whitequarkwpwrak: particularly, I was looking for a 'good' way to remap mcu registers to userspace08:34
wpwraklarsc: but yes, in the ANSI C standard, it reads more like the second interpretation. and also in the narrative of K&R 2nd ed.08:35
wpwrakwhitequark: for atben, i have all sorts of access methods :)08:36
wpwrakwhitequark: perhaps the bit of code i use for ben-blinkenlights can help you, though: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/ben-blinkenlights/source/tree/master/bbl/bbl.c08:36
whitequarkwpwrak: the code in tools/lib/atben.c is simple enough08:37
whitequarkjust an mmap08:37
wpwrakwhitequark: (atben) my tools use bit-banging from user space, but usually encapsulate it in a library. in some cases, they bypass the library, though. for "real" use, you'd use the kernel driver, which is currently based on the bit-banging spi driver. (but i have to try and see if i can't make it a lot faster with an optimized driver. speed may matter here.)08:39
wpwrakyeah, if you look past all the power cycling stuff, atben.c isn't too bad08:39
whitequarkwpwrak: talking about power cycling, how did you determined the right intervals (the ones you provide as a reference, i.e. 2ms and not 10 for poweron)?08:41
whitequarkjust used a scope and measured them directly?08:41
wpwraki don't remember. maybe i just tried some values until it worked ;) but a scope may have been involved, too08:43
whitequarkcould you point me to atben schematics?08:44
wpwrakone click from here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/08:45
whitequarkwpwrak: looks like it is not very complicated. at least not significantly more than cc2500-based circuit08:49
whitequarkthere is one problem for me through. atrfs are not imported to russia08:50
wpwrakstrange. the ti stuff has US export restrictions (or at least had it last time i checked), while the atmel stuff doesn't. i thought those restrictions were there mainly to keep you evil commies at a distance ? ;-)08:51
whitequarkthe problem is not with export restrictions at all08:52
whitequarkthere's just no people working with them here, and so no one buys them08:52
whitequarkthe same applies to any other non-very-common chip08:52
wpwrakany chance that digikey.ru could be of use ? they probably know how to get things through customs efficiently (if possible at all)08:55
wpwrakthe difference between knowing how to do international shipments and only thinking one knows it can sometimes be rather significant. such as 3x the shipping cost and 5x the customs processing cost08:57
wpwrak(from examples i have here)08:57
whitequarkfrom the banner on front page: "THE COST OF DELIVERY TO RUSSIA IS $120"08:58
wpwrakah, pricy ...08:59
whitequarkhuh, chipfind.ru promises delivery of anything from Farnell, from one part09:01
whitequarkthe minimal cost is around $20, and there's no delivery fee09:02
whitequarkthey deliver it for ~18 days, through09:02
whitequarkstill much better than nothing :)09:03
wpwraki.e., 7 days at customs :)09:03
whitequarkthere's still same problem with RF parts09:03
whitequark*passive RF parts09:04
wpwrakyou mean the balun ?09:04
whitequarkhm, there's no problem. farnell has them too, for like $0.509:05
wpwrakthere are two: the one from johanson and one from wuerth. the latter is more expensive.09:05
wpwrakWURTH 74842124509:06
wpwrakJOHANSON 2450FB15L000109:06
whitequarkdigikey has Wurth ones for $409:07
wpwrakthey should have both09:08
wpwrakUSD 2.58 @109:09
wpwrakthe johanson is USD 1.27 @109:09
whitequarkI've looked up costs on that russian proxy. also, johanson is ~$0.5 somehow09:10
wpwrakif you're determined, you can also make a discrete balun09:10
wpwrak0.50 for MOQ 1 ? or 1000 ? :)09:11
whitequarkfor 109:30
whitequarkfor 1000 it's even cheaper09:30
wpwrakyou have some funny pricing in russia :)09:33
whitequarkI guess it has something to do with nuclear physics09:34
whitequarkyou know, the particles with negative mass09:34
whitequarksomewhere customs will take away 5x the real cost, and that'll get compensated due to law of conservation of money09:36
wpwrakthat sounds like the most plausible explanation indeed :)09:39
whitequarkso I guess that my workflow should be like this:09:40
whitequarkorder ben, atben & atusb [wait a month], then play with RF stuff a bit to understand how it works, then order atrfs and related parts [wait a month while I can learn to make two-side pcbs], and then try to assemble something working09:42
whitequark(and then accidentally fry everything and start over.)09:43
wpwraksounds like a plan, yes :)09:45
wpwrakyou could of course even order the parts before the boards arrive. pipelining :)09:46
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: liballegro-digmid: make percussion instruments work. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7ce9a1210:10
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Merge branch 'trunk' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-packages into trunk http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/7dc3d4410:10
aw_wpwrak, hi i remembered that there's a tool you did to have a graphic history(pdf) about KiCad.10:12
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: liballegro: make allegro-setup operate on correct config file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/58cdfd410:16
aw_wpwrak, is there info linked to how can i get that graphic history? tks.10:18
wpwrakaw_: the easiest approach is to add your project to the list of things that get automatically processed10:30
wpwrakaw_: i.e., the ones you can see here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/10:30
wpwrakaw_: all this is being run by fidelio:/home/schhist/schhist_update_all10:31
wpwrakaw_: if you only want to run it locally, then you'd use schhist2web from the eda-tools project, directory schhist/10:33
wpwrakaw_: first argument is the path to the target project's top-level directory, then the relative path from there to the top-level schematics, and finally the name of the output directory10:34
wpwrakaw_: e.g., if your project is called "foo" and your schematics begin at foo/bar.sch, you could simply cd to foo, then run ../eda-tools/schhist/schhist2web . bar.sch whatever10:35
wpwrak(where "whatever" is the name of the output directory)10:35
wpwrakyou can then fire up a browser on that foo/whatever/index.html10:36
aw_wpwrak, okay, thanks a lot. seems that i need to run it locally. since http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/m1/source/tree/master/jtag-serial already moved to https://github.com/milkymist/extras-m1/tree/master/jtag-serial10:43
aw_wpwrak, do you think that PCBnew can still have possibility this graphic history on routings?10:45
wpwrakah, guthub makes things more complicated, indeed :-(10:45
wpwraksure. just need to find the time :)10:45
aw_got it. as long time, the KiCad is good for projects, it would be great if PCBnew tool can be fit schhist tool though. :)10:47
wpwrakyeah, agreed :)10:49
aw_wpwrak, e.g. i sometimes needs to compare both (before/after) KiCad routings, so i did as this way: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/JTAG_Serial_Cable_run2_for_Milkymist_One#Change_Notes10:49
aw_wpwrak, but it's okay though on picture or graphic view. :-) well...thanks for hints on schlist. :)10:50
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Use the destructor as intended. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/0a9229f10:52
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Load image with factory method instead of constructor. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/52f468610:52
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Minor cleanups. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/25e8e6210:52
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Made "raw" field private. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7861e0710:52
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Make pixel format conversion explicit. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/8a8183710:52
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: PNG: Only add alpha channel on surface if loaded image has an alpha channel. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/36260e910:52
wpwrakaw_: np. let's hope it works :)10:59
Fusinso, finaly I'm back with WiFi & DSL :)11:54
jow_laptopkyak: qi-bot told me you wa looking for me?13:09
kyakjow_laptop: he, right :) What a smart thing!13:11
kyakjow_laptop: may i ask you to have a look at bugs 9410 and and 9478?13:11
kyakthey have proposed patches, should be working fine...13:11
kyakthanks a lot :)13:17
qi-bot[commit] kyak: moc: pushed upstream http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/244708213:18
whitequarkrussian glibc translation is hilarious18:45
whitequarkthey've translated errno=0 (Success) as "Victory"18:45
whitequarklike "Cannot exetute binary file: Victory"18:46
wpwrakwell, the binary file may escaping execution quite a victory ...18:46
wpwraks/may/may consider/18:46
whitequarkheh. that's a nice cross-lingual joke18:49
kyakwhitequark: "button accordion" :)19:09
whitequarkkyak: such a great potential for localization abuse19:11
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-06032011-0001/21:10
--- Sat Jun 4 201100:00

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