#qi-hardware IRC log for Thursday, 2011-06-02

lunavorax_frizzlThere's a lot of things that I'm very unhappy with, with computing00:00
wolfspraulwhy unhappy? about what?00:00
lunavorax_frizzlIt's like everything was going in the very wrong way because of commercial stuffs00:01
lunavorax_frizzlCloud computing, smartphones,etc..00:02
wolfspraullike above, maybe you think too much00:02
wolfspraulthe tech industry is quite self-referential sometimes00:02
wolfspraulbut actually it's only a small part of life00:02
wolfspraulso if the marketing departments of a few companies are working in overdrive, so what?00:02
lunavorax_frizzlMaybe you're right wolfspraul 00:03
wolfspraulalso I think journalism is going through a lot of changes00:03
lunavorax_frizzlWhat would it takes to reduce the production cost of the NanoNote down or close to the hypotetical price of the Raspbery Pi ?00:03
lunavorax_frizzlJournalism ?00:03
wolfsprauland we need it to come out well, 'we' not as tech poeple, but for society00:03
wolfspraulyes sure, journalism00:04
wolfspraulnewspaper subscriptions falling like a rock00:04
wolfspraulso a lot of what you read is written by companies for marketing reasons00:04
wolfsprauldon't take it too serious :-)00:04
wolfspraulmeanwhile new forms of paying for independent journalism are growing slower than the old ones are disappearing - right now00:05
wolfspraulso naturally in a lot of places you actually look at advertisement now00:05
wolfspraulbecause you talk about 'smartphones/cloud computing'00:05
wolfspraulthe media are full of it, because they copy/paste articles written by companies with vested interests in this00:05
lunavorax_frizzlOh ok00:06
wolfspraulbut no matter how much they repeat the same thing, I'm sure >90% of people don't give a damn, they just wait and see what actually works for them00:06
lunavorax_frizzlHum that explains00:06
wolfspraulwhich is typically maybe 1% of what marketing claims, no? :-)00:06
wolfspraulwell this is my thinking00:06
wolfspraulI'm all relaxed00:06
wolfspraulI survived the Symbian dark age00:07
wolfspraulthe Symbian dark age was a time where seemingly everybody agreed that Symbian = smartphone00:07
wolfspraulSymbian = great apps00:07
wolfspraulSymbian = great for developers00:07
wolfspraulonly problem, it was all not true00:07
wolfspraulend users knew, because nobody used those smartphones for anything but phone calls, because...00:07
wolfspraulyour guess :-)00:08
wolfspraulthe other stuff didn't work :-)00:08
wolfspraulfinally we made it through the Symbian dark age00:08
wolfsprauland who remembers all the wild claims they made back then, on good pay? nobody...00:08
wolfspraulbecause it doesn't matter00:08
lunavorax_frizzlHehe indeed00:09
lunavorax_frizzlWhy was it great for developers ?00:09
wolfspraulit wasn't00:09
lunavorax_frizzlAh ok sorry00:09
wolfspraulbut it's very hard when you go against the 'commonly accepted wisdom', at that time00:09
lunavorax_frizzlPropaganda from the past still fools me00:09
wolfspraulmaybe that's how you feel right now about cloud, smartphone, etc.00:09
lunavorax_frizzlHum yeah00:09
wolfspraulbut you are just arguing with an imagined enemy00:10
wolfspraulmaybe your own fears00:10
lunavorax_frizzlIs Android still equal to "code in Java or die" ?00:10
wolfspraultry to talk to someone on the street, they will agree with you about 'cloud computing' :-)00:10
lunavorax_frizzlMy cousin does but he's an ingeneer00:10
wolfspraulit's cool, no? computers in the clouds now? great!00:10
wolfspraulwhat do you do on a perfectly sunny day?00:11
wolfspraulno computing?00:11
wolfspraulmakes sense! can enjoy the beach then!00:11
wolfspraulyeah, this is great stuff00:11
wolfspraulyes I think in Android you need to code in Java00:12
lunavorax_frizzlWell maybe I just need to relax00:12
lunavorax_frizzlOh damn :(00:12
lunavorax_frizzlI'll just focus on complaining about gnome 3 then :P00:12
lunavorax_frizzlSomething funny I see on forums theses days00:13
lunavorax_frizzlEverybody is talking about forking Gnome 2 but nobody is doing it. I think I can understand why :P00:13
wolfspraulthe Internet seems to becoming a cluster of talkers00:14
lunavorax_frizzlAlso yeah00:14
wolfspraulI've noticed the quality of comments sections in online publications to go down dramatically in recent years00:14
lunavorax_frizzlBut also Gnome 2 is a seriously heavy project, I don't need (and can't) to dive into such an amount of code.00:14
wolfspraulnow you basically have a competition between extremist opinionists00:14
wolfspraulpeople who have nothing to do, and I guess draw satisfaction from this sports00:15
wolfspraulthe only thing the reader can get from it is that sometimes those comments are so freaking extreme that you just have to laugh00:15
lunavorax_frizzlStill you haven't aswered my question about the NanoNote wolfspraul :P00:18
wolfspraulah sorry, one sec00:18
lunavorax_frizzlNo problem00:18
wolfspraulthe raspberry pi is an announcement only now00:19
wolfspraulit's basically yet another proprietary breakout board00:19
wolfspraulif he can use the software stack from the chip maker 1:1, then his cost should stay under control00:20
wolfspraulit has no screen, no keyboard00:20
lunavorax_frizzlSoftware stack ?00:20
wolfspraulkernel mostly00:20
wolfspraulwith the current ingredients, we cannot bring the nanonote to 25 USD00:21
lunavorax_frizzl25usb still is super good00:21
lunavorax_frizzlusd sorry00:21
wolfspraulmaybe 49 is possible, it would require higher volume which would require more orders which would require a much more valuable software experience00:21
wolfspraullet's say I make 10K units of 49USD nanos now, can I sell 10K units? I doubt it.00:22
lunavorax_frizzlI'm deeply thinking theses days about how the NanoNote can do what the Raspberry Pi can't. For now it only need a good doc for kids... still 100usd is too expensive for00:23
lunavorax_frizzlEven me, I'm not poor but I know my parents would have chocked if I told them the price of the NanoNote00:23
wolfspraulI think a cheap Android phone with touchscreen is not bad, no?00:24
wolfspraulproduction cost is about 30 USD, so they should exist in Europe for ca. 50 USD I would think00:24
wolfspraulunderground China import channels of course00:25
lunavorax_frizzlI don't know, you already told me about that. I'm skeptical about the touchscreen, why not a keyboard like the Blackberry ?00:25
wolfspraulah I said the same thing earlier, great00:25
wolfspraulI passed the consistency check :-)00:25
wolfspraulI thin keyboards will go away00:26
wolfspraulover time00:26
lunavorax_frizzlI honeslty think that a ZX Spectrum look alike NanoNote (composite out, usb in) would definitely outburst the Raspberry.00:26
wolfspraulthe reason I like it on the NanoNote is because it was what we could really pull off at the time, and make a lot of good free software (not Android) usable00:26
lunavorax_frizzlOh how sad :(00:26
wolfspraulbut in the long run, over years, I cannot see how it won't all move to capacitive touch or some other even better touch technology00:26
wolfspraulthat's yet another big challenge for free software, we'll get to it00:27
lunavorax_frizzlhow sad --> keyboard disapearing00:27
wolfspraulif you are typing away on a piece of glass, what's the difference?00:28
wolfspraulif I think about my experience with keyboards, I started training how to type with an old typewrite of my parents, before I had my first computer00:28
wolfspraulbecause I wanted to be able to type when the great day arrived and I got my first computer :-)00:28
wolfspraulthose were big clunky keys!00:28
wolfspraulhave to press down 2 cm or so, even more00:29
wolfspraulthen the first keyboards arrived, and they were also clunky00:29
wolfspraulthen the keys got lighter and lighter00:29
wolfspraulthe notebook keyboard I'm typing on now doesn't require much pressure at all. if it were a flat glass, ok I would have no tactile feedback. so?00:30
wolfsprauldo I really need that or did I just become used to it over the years?00:30
wolfspraulif you try with a 5-year old now, would they miss the keys? or just happily type away on the glass?00:30
lunavorax_frizzlwolfspraul, you mean on all devices or only mobiles one ?00:30
lunavorax_frizzlAlso, if childrens need to have a computer to learn about computing, the hardware need to stay the same as long as possible. Goal is to educate, not to make money and make a new machine every 6months. That's something incompatible (unfortunately) with a lot (all?) of companies.00:30
wolfspraulwell wait00:30
wolfspraulcapacitive touch is here to stay too00:31
wolfspraulyou run some wires, build up a field00:31
mthI don't think you can do blind typing without tactile feedback00:31
wolfspraulhave a little firmware running at a few megahertz measuring changes to the field, and computing where you pressed00:31
mthand non-blind typing will likely be slower than blind00:31
mthbut over 90% of people probably can't type blind anyway00:31
lunavorax_frizzlhum interesting point from mth 00:32
lunavorax_frizzlafair I've seen works on virtual keyboard on touch screen made for blind typing00:33
lunavorax_frizzlwith positionate and rotate the screen depending on where you type on the screen00:33
wolfspraulI like to try new things. If someone would give me a glass/touch keyboard as a replacement of my notebook keyboard, I would put it in right away and try for a few weeks00:33
lunavorax_frizzlBut still is no tactile feedback yes00:34
wolfspraulbut it's a bit too early for that I think00:34
lunavorax_frizzlYeah I don't know, I may sounds old for saying so but I don't want to change that habits at least for me.00:34
wolfspraulI can imagine typing away on glass.00:34
lunavorax_frizzlI tried it on an iPad in a store, it's weird00:35
lunavorax_frizzlBut maybe I would have no troubles after a few days ? I don't know really.00:36
wolfspraulwe all don't know until we try :-)00:36
wolfspraulI would not want to go back to the types of keyboards I had in the 90's00:37
lunavorax_frizzlThat must be Asperger or something but so far I hate changing my habbits :P00:37
wolfsprauldo I want to go back there? no. compared to that my keyboard now is already 80% flatter, remove another 20% and I'm on a flat glass surface...00:38
lunavorax_frizzlAlso Linux maybe need to get rid of X in order to be ready for multitouch ?00:38
lunavorax_frizzlwolfspraul, I'm typing on this http://km.support.apple.com/library/APPLE/APPLECARE_ALLGEOS/HT1171/HT1171_01-wireless_keyboard-001-fr.png00:40
lunavorax_frizzlAnd so far I don't mind staying with this :/00:40
wolfspraulhe, nice00:41
lunavorax_frizzlBut I need to try the dvorak fr key arrangment 00:41
wolfspraulmaybe Apple will force upgrade you one day00:41
wolfspraulforced happiness00:41
lunavorax_frizzlI'm sure they'll do00:41
lunavorax_frizzl"forced happiness" that's the worst combinaison of words I ever saw00:42
lunavorax_frizzlSomeone here is asking me to go to sleep00:44
lunavorax_frizzlI have to go then00:44
lunavorax_frizzlthanks wolfspraul :)00:44
lunavorax_frizzlsee you00:45
wolfspraulwow this is nice http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Neue-Nanonote-Firmware-verbessert-Booten-und-Video01:34
wolfsprauldid anybody talk to them or did they write this themselves?01:34
wolfspraulI'm surprised because at least I didn't do anything, and they must have picked this up from somewhere, maybe xiangfu's announcement mail on the list01:34
kristianpaul11:14 < dvdk> http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Neue-Nanonote-Firmware-verbessert-Booten-und-Video01:35
wolfspraulyes but where does it come from? they are subscribed to the list and saw xiangfu's mail and then wrote this themselves? that'd be pretty cool...01:36
kristianpaul233139-11:14 < dvdk> hey, the freshmeat release announcement triggered an article in linux-magazine.de :)01:36
kristianpaul233141-11:14 < dvdk> so this is what freshmeat is good for :)01:36
wolfspraulah, interesting. thanks!01:37
kristianpaul233144-11:17 < dvdk> same story on http://www.linux-community.de/Internal/Nachrichten/Nanonote-Firmware-bootet-schneller01:37
kristianpaul233145-11:17 < dvdk> wolfspraul: ^ might want to link that from the wiki01:37
wolfsprauladded http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/What_others_are_saying#201101:38
wolfsprauldraft only, will cleanup later01:38
wolfspraulbut that's more important is to document the root event, so that's freshmeat here I guess01:39
wolfspraullet me find the url...01:39
wolfspraulmust be this one http://freshmeat.net/projects/nanonote-firmware/releases/33258701:40
wolfspraulok next time we have software updates, we need to make sure there is an announcement on freshmeat01:40
kristianpaulhey, i dint knewt it about sftp. thats good 01:40
wolfspraulmaybe we should make a milkymist-firmware project too on freshmeat01:42
wolfsprauland when there's an update, post an announcement there with a nice summary/changelog01:42
kristianpaulgood idea01:42
wolfspraulthe linux-magazin.de post brought about 750 visitors or so, that's nice as every visitor matters01:46
wolfspraulmakes me want to go back to the qi-hardware.com homepage and bring it to a much higher level in cleanliness etc...01:46
wolfspraulI think it can be far more seductive and interesting still :-)01:47
xiangfu_Your project has been submitted for verification. This process typically takes less than 24 hours. (Milkymist on Freshmeat.net)02:00
wolfspraulxiangfu: nice!02:23
kristianpaulhum, i dont see the in ICD- GPS-200 the ionosphere word... may be they just call it diferent ;)02:34
kristianpaulargg, my fault, missing capital letter..02:45
wolfspraulhow is the GPS data analysis going? I mean from the live data you capture, can you tell anything already?02:46
kristianpaulwell, same, still on Pull-in state, so no tracking yet02:48
kristianpaulPull-in is third state for channels in osgps02:48
kristianpaulnow checking i have a good/proper setup of osgps, like update alamanac and utc, now checking ionosphere model parameters02:49
kristianpaulso no mor updates so far wolfspraul :-)02:50
wolfspraulI'm a glass half-full guy, so 'third state' sounds good02:51
wolfspraulI guess first and second state already passed, so there is light at the end of the tunnel02:51
wolfspraulor maybe first state is only "successful fopen()" and second state is "successfully read into ram"?02:52
wolfspraulbetter don't tell me...02:52
kristianpaulalso i can ping Clifford Kelley (osgps developer), but i need be sure i have a good explanation of my issue, wich acording last conversation this format i'm using per byte (IIQQIIQQ)  is keep i should not have problems02:53
kristianpaulno no, nothing about fopen and such02:54
kristianpaulwolfspraul: http://home.earthlink.net/~cwkelley/OSGPS_chapter_4.pdf page 402:54
wolfspraulgreat link, thanks!03:03
wolfspraulof course I was joking about my states...03:03
kristianpaulno, is okay, actually i found in osgps code, some values were harcoded to fix another sige fronted sampling clock, so well, i need to keep in mind too just in case03:10
qi-bot[commit] Sergey Kukunin: Add powersaver class http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/240286d03:40
vladkorotnevhello everyone05:02
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Removed unused code and restricted access. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b6a5d8905:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: Refactored string drawing methods. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b2896d605:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Removed duplicate constructor. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/52c89d605:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:gmenu2x http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/af3ed7805:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: SurfaceCollection: Removed alpha flag. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/44ca4e305:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Remove alpha flag. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7877fee05:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: PNG: Make loadPNG() responsible for creating an RGBA surface. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/8b17e2e05:21
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Fixed bug: wallpaper does not use alpha channel. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5b6d92205:21
vladkorotnevwho could please create me a folder in http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people? 05:40
vladkorotnevhello everyone ;)06:24
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: (energy harvesting) victor asked me whether it would be possible to strap an RF-equipped sensor (with very low duty cycle of course) on a power cord and i wanted to find out if there's really enough power there to do something useful with it.07:31
DocScrutinizerhmmm, interesting07:33
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: well, there are RF lightswitches to stick on the wall and power is from piezo when pressing the switch, so...07:34
wpwrak(piezo) oh, that's nice. didn'07:35
wpwrakt know of these07:35
wpwrakof course, all proprietary system/protocols, i guess ?07:35
DocScrutinizer\o/ my 10min experimental art shortmovie is almost uploaded07:36
DocScrutinizertook only like 6h07:36
Action: DocScrutinizer is waiting for "Sorry, file too large for OVI" ;-P07:37
wpwrakhollywood will hate you. a 1:36 movie to production ratio would mean that a 1.5 hours move should be done within 7 days :)07:38
DocScrutinizer244MB, it got to ~200MB when my DSL had reconnect and OVI-share upload started new instantly - smart sucker 07:38
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: it's spontaneous art, a live act with N900 the main character :-)07:39
DocScrutinizeractually I think you'd have a hard time coding this if you planned07:40
DocScrutinizereven with soundtrack ;-D07:40
Action: DocScrutinizer is wondering if he can find a purchase receipt for asking Logitech for a MX Revolution replacement07:41
DocScrutinizerdamn critter should last longer than 3..4 years, at a price tag of almost 90EUR07:42
wpwrakphew. the cost of the logistics of filing all receipts for that long would probably exceed that value ;-)07:43
Action: DocScrutinizer glares furiously at that OMRON D2C-F-7N horseshit, which is infamous for breaking after 1y avg07:45
DocScrutinizernot that the SMT switches used in MX Rev are any much better07:46
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: 4th: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/56f94ee07:54
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: what prevents you from replacing the switches yourself?07:54
DocScrutinizerthe fact I did that last time like 6 months ago07:55
whitequarkmaybe you should get better replacement switches? :)07:55
DocScrutinizer(movie) no error msg, just got silently redirected to /dev/null :-(07:56
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: indeed, but for the SMT ones the replacement sucks, and for the microswitches it's not really easy to find an exactly fitting better replacement07:57
wpwrakwolfspraul: (kbd) you could try a "flat keyboard" experience already with exiting technology. there are those laser keyboards that just use a table. e.g., this one (alas out of stock) http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/07:59
DocScrutinizerheard it sucks08:00
wpwrakme too08:00
wolfsprauland then you want me to try?08:01
wpwrakbut wolfgang thinks keyboard without tactile feedback may be great08:01
wpwrakand he hates those http://www.dansdata.com/images/clicky/ballboard1024.jpg08:01
wpwrakwhich are ironically some of the most sought-after by people who type a lot :)08:01
wolfspraulnah :-) I said none of those things08:01
DocScrutinizerthe reason I don't want tablets nor phones w/o hw-kbd08:01
wolfspraulI said I don't want to go back to that one08:02
wolfspraulwpwrak: are you using one of those?08:02
wolfspraulyes, I like the easier to type notebook keyboard I have now better than those old ones08:02
wpwraki use the HHKB, which is somethat similar. i know the ibm keyboards and i loved them.08:02
wolfspraulback then. but now we have something better :-)08:03
DocScrutinizerwow IBM kbd *with trackball* ???08:03
wolfspraulanyway everybody can choose whatever they like. I don't see a point of pressing hard being good.08:03
wolfspraulzero tactile feedback is another matter08:03
wolfsprauland I didn't say I like that, I said I would like to try08:03
wpwrakthe layout of HHKB is a bit similar to that apple keyboard. even more compact, though. and more unix-ish08:04
wpwrak(like to try) that's why i mentioned it - you can already try it :)08:04
wolfspraulif it's bad there is no need to try08:05
wolfspraulI wait until you tell me there is one with zero tactile feedback that is good because you tried, and then I will try08:05
wolfspraulhow about that?08:05
DocScrutinizerisn't a kbd with zero tactile fb exactly what you get on any tablet?08:05
wolfspraulI don't think they are ready for fast 10-finger typing, not sure08:06
wolfspraulI don't want my keyboard to slow me down, in fact I want my keyboard to make me speed up as much as posible08:06
DocScrutinizernor will they ever be08:06
wolfspraulso I would choose the one where my typing speed is fastest, done08:06
wpwrakon small devices you have to compromise :) and indeed, there's where is see most potential for non-feedback keyboard. below a certain size, you basically can't win.08:07
wpwrakbut then, if you consider things like the OQO keyboard, you can go pretty small and it still feels good08:08
wolfspraulif a flat, no-feedback keyboard that supports full 10 finger typing comes out, and I can type faster on it than on my current notebook kbd, I'll switch08:08
wolfspraulthat's basically my point08:08
wolfsprauland until that comes out, I continue on my notebook keyboard :-)08:08
DocScrutinizeranyway, printing and tinkering a paper kbd together is a nice weekend project : use tin foil and/or silver varnish to get the electrodes, and attach a simple sensitive matrix scanner08:08
wpwraki think you need some form of feedback for fast typing. just seeing that you messed up on the screen probably isn't enough. besides, that means that you can basically type blindly08:09
wpwrakpart of the feedback could perhaps be static. e.g. a shaped surface that lets you feel whether you're at the right position or not08:10
wpwrakof course, a shaped touch screen would be a hard sell ;-)08:11
DocScrutinizerhmm, you can inplement this to my paperkbd as well :-)08:11
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: looking forward to your paper keyboard movie then ;-)08:11
DocScrutinizermeh, I'm not interested in such a type of kbd 08:11
DocScrutinizer(movie) the html upload page on OVI has a little note "not more than 100MB per file" :-/08:16
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I can offer you a spare server you can upload your movie to08:21
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: thanks, got a server. just no "website" so it's not that attractive to try and watch a movie there. Pondering youtube... :-/08:22
Action: DocScrutinizer never uploaded *anything* to YT08:23
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I heard vimeo is much more friendly08:23
whitequarkI've seen a lot of movies like that there08:24
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote-files: reflash_ben.sh: add -b -k -r to help message http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/35f515108:26
wolfspraulyou can upload Ogg Theora to qi-hardware.com08:28
wolfspraulof course youtube/vimeo etc. are dedicated platforms and probably have 1000 features...08:28
DocScrutinizervimeo has problems to get their verification mail thru openmoko.org spamfiler :-/08:52
DocScrutinizerthat's such a PITA with these registrations08:52
whitequarkahem, a sane SA install should just mark mail as spam IMO, and then your client may filter it08:54
whitequarkat least that's how it works in my setup08:54
DocScrutinizernot my setup, not my SA08:55
DocScrutinizerI actually don't want to know how many spams run in every minute on joerg@open moko org08:57
DocScrutinizerchinese hacked gmail again X-P08:58
wolfspraulI'm not surprised at all by the Chinese hacks09:15
wolfspraulthey will attack any resource in the free Internet that they can identify as a worthwhile target09:15
wolfspraulgood thing that we always anticipated worst case malitious behavior when designing everything09:16
wolfspraulso the Chinese are welcome to play the bad boys now, I am confident about the survival of the free Internet09:16
wolfspraulAlice and Bob...09:16
whitequarkwolfspraul: why are you saying it like the chinese hackers are special somehow?09:16
wolfspraulbecause they are sponsored by the Chinese government09:17
wolfspraulso it's a large and homogenous group09:17
wolfsprauland simply other than the Chinese government there is no entity on earth that would attempt something like that09:17
wolfsprauleven if some leaders in some other countries may feel similar, say Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Cuba, Syria, Libya, etc. etc.09:17
whitequarkoh. never heard about that. why would Chinese government want this?09:17
wolfspraulbut they don't have the guts and resources to actually pull off attacks09:17
wolfspraulbecause the free Internet threatens the stability of mainland China09:18
whitequarkthey already have their great firewall, isn't that enough?09:18
wolfspraulyes and no09:18
wolfspraulfirst there are many holes09:18
wolfspraulwhich they keep plugging, so the (free) Internet experience keeps getting worse and worse09:19
wolfspraulI think if the separation were perfect, they would not attack resources outside.09:19
wolfspraulbut it's not perfect, so they attack09:20
wolfspraulwell they might even attack in a perfectly separated scenario, that's pure speculation though09:20
whitequarkthis is a weird way. like saying "if we can't control internet in China, then let's destroy it entirely"09:21
wolfsprauloh absolutely. the need for control of the Internet in China is without question.09:22
wolfspraulthe Chinese government will do _whatever they can_ to create full control over the Internet in China09:22
wolfspraulall the way to completely separating the inside from the outside, or attacking things on the outside if that is not possible09:22
DocScrutinizerthere are also mere spying purposes for doing that - gmail probably driven 50/50 by spy and counter-dissident10:04
DocScrutinizerI mean, attacking German gvmt directly and with high precision can't be related much to controlling their mega-LAN10:05
DocScrutinizerWestern companies other than IT also not exactly related to censorship and hunting chinese opposition10:06
DocScrutinizers/IT/IT as a target of centalized attacks from China/10:07
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: liballegro: fix demo and setup programs for 32bpp video mode; move data-files http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/77f424b10:07
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: Merge branch 'trunk' of projects.qi-hardware.com:openwrt-packages into trunk http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3fe0b2e10:07
DocScrutinizerplus then of course it's an accepted fact WW3 won't use nukes but viruses and trojans10:09
DocScrutinizerfunny enough first threat (forgot the name... S.*?), to those Siemens SPS, been driven by Isreal/USA10:11
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: Stuxnet10:14
whitequarkthat sounds even more funny in Russian, like "it will rot"10:14
whitequarkwolfspraul: so there is another question you may know answer to. I always wanted to develop hardware, particularly digital stuff with microcontrollers (FPGA's too)10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: cleanups in text write methods. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/1bc553910:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: merged SFontPlus class into ASFont class. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b4f3cde10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: removed duplication of horizontal alignment code. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/bff04d210:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:gmenu2x http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/859203810:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Fixed debug print. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/db5ebff10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: only convert font surface if it is not already in a 32bpp format. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/41e6e4610:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: access font pixels efficiently. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/a382a4210:17
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add color ash shell, add the method to gmenu2x.sh as comment http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/e0831be10:17
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: fix setfont path http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6087e2310:17
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: using color font http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b068aa010:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Removed unused code and restricted access. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b6a5d8910:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: ASFont: Refactored string drawing methods. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b2896d610:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Removed duplicate constructor. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/52c89d610:17
qi-bot[commit] Sergey Kukunin: Add powersaver class http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/240286d10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:gmenu2x http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/af3ed7810:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: SurfaceCollection: Removed alpha flag. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/44ca4e310:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Remove alpha flag. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7877fee10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: PNG: Make loadPNG() responsible for creating an RGBA surface. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/8b17e2e10:17
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Fixed bug: wallpaper does not use alpha channel. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5b6d92210:17
qi-bot[commit] Ayla: Merge branch 'master' of projects.qi-hardware.com:gmenu2x into install_locations http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/ef4b01210:17
whitequarkwhat is the best way to learn doing that?10:17
wolfspraul'digital stuff with microcontrollers', hmm10:18
wolfspraulyou mean you want to design and manufacture a small embedded system?10:18
wolfspraullike Werner did with the ben-wpan boards?10:18
wolfspraulhe is making 2-layer PCB at home, plus PCB antenna design10:19
wolfspraulor you mean purely the programmable fpga part, on an existing board?10:19
wolfspraulI don't understand how 'digital stuff with microcontrollers' and 'fpga' connect together...10:20
wolfspraulwhat kind of app/use case do you have in mind?10:20
whitequarkwolfspraul: I don't think I can really do the full cycle for some piece of hardware, at least not now10:20
whitequarkso I think I should begin with working for some company to gain experience10:21
whitequarkbut again, I must have something to show them so that they'll hire me10:21
wolfspraulwhat app/use case do you have in mind?10:21
wolfspraulwhat should the device be able to do in the end?10:21
whitequarkI don't have any particular device in mind currently. (well, really I do, but any of the ideas I have won't be profitable on manufacturing; that's most one-time projects for myself)10:23
whitequarkfor example, I've been trying to do a home automation system for some time, which will connect most electrical devices (switches, lamps, sockets) in a wireless network and allow controlling everything in a centralized way10:25
whitequarkbut I clearly don't have enough RF experience to do that, as I understand now10:25
wolfspraulbut that does sound like ben-wpan a little, no?10:26
wolfspraulthere is probably no other project like that with such extensive, actually massive, amount of documentation as ben-wpan10:26
whitequarksounds great10:27
whitequarkmaybe I should then begin with replicating ben-wpan10:27
wolfspraulyou probably need to zoom-in/focus on something10:28
wolfspraulotherwise it may be overwhelming10:28
whitequarkthat's how it is10:28
wolfspraulmaybe Werner has an idea for you10:31
wolfspraulsomething that is both good for ben-wpan, and will also help you achieve your educational goals10:31
whitequarkhuh, I doubt I can really make anything useful at the moment10:33
whitequarkI'll talk with him anyway, through10:36
wolfsprauloh for sure you can do something useful!10:37
wolfsprauleven if you try something, and fail, as long as you talk about what you do, exchange your experience with others, that can be very helpful for the project overall10:37
whitequarkI'll then should get atusb/atben, to have a definitely working side10:43
whitequarkdoes tuxbrain sell them already?10:43
wolfspraulnot yet I think, last I heard was that SMT (the last production step) should be this week or next week10:47
whitequarkokay, I'll then begin with ben10:49
kyakwhitequark: if you decide about buying atben/atusb, i suggest that we consider group buying. Just need to think, maybe it's more reliable to buy it separately (the customs will more likely get suspicious with several PCBs, then just one or two)11:00
whitequarkkyak: sure11:01
whitequarkmaybe we can also buy a pack of UBBs11:02
kyaki already did :)11:02
kyakhave 5 of these thingies 11:02
whitequark... or maybe not, even my skill is enough to make them manually11:02
kyakthe price was so small, it's easier to buy UBB than to do it by hand11:02
dvdkgroup bying plans for atben/atusb: can i join? :)11:04
whitequarkwhy not11:05
kyakwhitequark: it was dvdk who suggested it in mailing lists http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007503.html11:05
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: liballegro: minor cleanup, fixes, tuning http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/617558311:06
whitequarkdvdk: so, are you too in Russia?11:06
dvdknope, but german mail is pretty cheap and reliable :)11:06
dvdkand i sit in between tuxbrain (spain) and you guys :)11:06
whitequarkI assume that all of you already have bens, right?11:07
dvdkbtw the UBB thing went really well. not one lost.  although sending (uninsured) to norway, us and russia.  11:08
lunavorax_frizzlhi all !11:08
dvdkbtw is atben/utusb already out?11:08
whitequarkdvdk: 14:47 < wolfspraul> not yet I think, last I heard was that SMT (the last production step) should be this week or next week11:09
dvdkwhitequark: btw if you need a low amount of ubbs, it's 2.40 eur/ubb + 0.80 shipment11:10
dvdk(atben) no preorders this time?11:13
DocScrutinizervimeo sucks like hell11:25
DocScrutinizeroptimized for FF, or even M$exploder11:26
DocScrutinizernone of the uploaders works in konq11:27
DocScrutinizerthey only got three of them, so it's probably gross to expect at least one of then would do the job11:27
Aylahi, does Nanonote supports double buffering?11:28
lunavorax_frizzlDocScrutinizer, stop using KDE ;)11:30
whitequarkAyla: AFAIK that's possible with NN hardware, but not implemented in current fbdev driver11:32
DocScrutinizerupload it to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ now11:36
DocScrutinizernice and clean11:36
whitequarkhuh, madBatShit?11:37
DocScrutinizern900 going psycho11:37
whitequarkokay, maybe I should just see that11:38
DocScrutinizerno cuts, no dubs, no storybook11:38
whitequarkstill interesting11:39
DocScrutinizerjust an occasional "Duh! WTF! Mehehehe" from background - that's me11:39
DocScrutinizercamera like blair witch 11:39
DocScrutinizerin ~3h it's upped11:40
Aylawhitequark: okay. So I believe I shouldn't make it default on gmenu2x then :)11:41
whitequarkAyla: if you're talking about SDL config, then it may still make sense11:43
AylaI have a question for you guys.11:46
Aylashould we drop gp2x support on gmenu2x?11:46
Aylathe code is over-complex and messy, and one of the causes is that the gp2x support hasn't been totally removed11:47
Aylasome parts are commented, some are still here11:48
wolfspraulAyla: wasn't there some activity in another gmenu2x somewhere?11:49
whitequarkAyla: I think yes, as that will make gmenu2x much more portable and usable on other devices11:49
Aylaeither we remove all GP2X stuff, or we un-comment all the GP2X stuff and encapsulate it into #ifdef/#endif11:49
AylaI *think* that the original author is still working on its own version11:50
whitequark(framebuffer) looking at linux/fb.h, there is no generic interface for double buffering, so it presumably should be done in SDL anyway then11:50
wolfspraulthis one https://github.com/mtorromeo/gmenu2x11:50
wolfspraulat some point it seemed like he applied some/a lot of our changes back to his version11:51
Aylathat's it11:51
Aylayes he did11:51
whitequarkwe can discuss it with him11:51
wolfspraulif he's active, I'd say it's not a bad idea to work towards one clean codebase, no?11:51
whitequarkmaybe the GP2X changes may be re-implemented cleanly, by creating additional interfaces11:51
Aylawhitequark: currently, gmenu2x implements its own double-buffer...11:52
Aylainstead of using SDL's11:53
Aylathe problem of gmenu2x is that it's an overcomplex piece of crap11:53
Aylait would be easier to rewrite it from scratch than cleaning it11:54
wolfspraulAyla: ok got it. Well I only wanted to suggest to communicate with him. If we already know that's not worth it, then fine.12:00
wolfspraulI guess that means we forked gmenu2x, unless he applies some of the patches again, even without us talking to him :-)12:00
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: new package: liballegro-digmid: package 'freepats' samples for midi synthesizer http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/eb32f8d13:03
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: liballegro: add config file to configure audio out & midi synthesizer http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b17ce1813:04
wpwrak(ben-wpan) i have no updates yet. they needed some clarifications on a file earlier this week, for the boards to "enter smt" this week. but nothing since.14:25
wpwrak(ben-wpan) i pinged them again some 5-6 hours ago ... (all the experience working with uncommunicative chinese comes rather handy in this case ;-)14:26
wpwrakwhitequark: for learning to do things with microcontrollers, depends a bit on what you already know. you generally need a bit of understanding of general electronics, resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, nothing too fancy, just the basics, because you;ll run into them in one way or another all the time14:31
wpwrakwhitequark: then there's a lot of architecture-specific knowledge about specific microcontrollers. larger embedded SoCs (the ben's ingenic, anything ARM and such) tend to have similar features but in a more orderly patters. the smaller you get the less orthgonal the peripherals become.14:33
whitequarkwpwrak: well, I already know most of the basics. given that our XZ0032 board is comparable with Ben by complexity, I'd say that it is not a problem for me to understand a board of this level14:33
whitequarkI've got a lot of experience with atmel uCs, some with 32-bit ARMs (simpler STM32 ones), and Ingenic mips14:34
wpwrakwhitequark: okay, you're already quite far then ;-) your earlier experiments suggested as much :)14:34
whitequarkbut I'm still quite stupid when it comes to RF circuits and switch-mode power supplies (in the latter case, I was not able to implement even a single one which would have 80% efficiency :/)14:36
whitequarkeven when fully following instructions in datasheet14:36
wpwrakwhitequark: rf is tricky. there's a lot of black magic there. i only started exploring that area myself not too long ago. basically with ben-wpan, some 9-10 months ago.14:37
wpwrakwhitequark: (switchd mode) you mean for low (:battery") or high (mains) voltages ?14:38
whitequarkwpwrak: I've built several variants of 3.6V->5V converter on different chips14:38
whitequarkwell, they worked somehow, but the efficiency was ranging from 10% (first ones) to maybe 50%14:39
whitequarkand I have no idea why they were working so, or how should I have designed them the right way14:40
wpwrakthat's surprisingly bad. were they just the usual 2-3 caps + inductor + chip type ?14:40
whitequarkyeah, I've used ones with integrated FET and sensing resistor14:41
whitequark(I don't currently have schematics here on work, and so cannot say which ones exactly)14:42
wpwrakodd. external diode ?14:42
wpwrakwhat kind of inductor ? small smt type, with some generous margin for the maximum current ?14:43
whitequarkthe one on board with highest efficiency I've used SMT one, through it was quite large, and rated a lot higher than the maximum possible current14:44
whitequarklike 4 times14:44
whitequarkwell, it was the only one of the needed inductance I found in local store14:45
wpwrakthat should be a healthy margin14:45
wpwrakmaybe DocScrutinizer knows more about the pitfalls of such things14:45
wpwrakhe's the resident electrical engineer. i just make things work ;-)14:46
DocScrutinizercan I get a sum up?14:46
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: whitequark made a switching mode up-converter but got poor efficiency (<= 50%). FET is in the chip. he used a schottky. inductor has 4x the max current rating. what else could be the problem ?14:47
DocScrutinizerparasitary capacitance14:48
DocScrutinizerinductor operating out of spec'd freq range14:48
DocScrutinizeralso calculating "max I" for step converter inductors is a science14:49
DocScrutinizerthat's NOT average current!14:49
DocScrutinizerif freq low, the inductor will saturate14:50
whitequark600k IIRC14:50
DocScrutinizerif high, you get loss in the ferromagnetics14:50
DocScrutinizertoo high freq also makes parasitary C show up everywhere14:50
DocScrutinizerstepping converters are a bitch to pound to shape14:52
DocScrutinizereven app notes say: "test, change, test again" :-D14:53
whitequarkoh, I found the part number: LM2700MT-ADJ14:53
whitequark(www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2700.pdf) the circuit I implemented was quite exactly the bottom one on page 1214:55
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: and what if they say "ride whirl with summer wind plume" ? :)14:55
wpwrak(mount coil (inductor) with how air pencil) and yes, i just made this up ;-)14:57
whitequarkand the inductor was enanAukdosh6orwy14:57
whitequark... not quite. more like CDRH103RNP-2R2NC-B14:57
DocScrutinizeryou need to *very* carefully read and compare all the specs, diagrams, and recommendations. Even then sometimes it just "doesn't work" and you have to change some part. It's not unusual chip manuf's app notes mention a particular brand and build of inductor to use, as it turned out to be optimum15:06
DocScrutinizersome inductors also may have special PCB copper shape requirements (layout) so no phantom shortcircuit turns for the coil sneak in15:08
DocScrutinizerreal fun15:08
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I don't have that board anymore, but I think I'll do a new one soon, as the topic is interesting15:08
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: (pcb) not the case, my inductor was completely isolated and there was no copper under it except for pads15:09
DocScrutinizereven your case might matter, for same phantom turn reason15:09
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: can I have a folder in downloads.qi-hardware.com/people???15:09
DocScrutinizerbut maybe around it, forming a "ring"?15:09
DocScrutinizerground plane other side of PCB?15:10
DocScrutinizerit's tricky, I couldn't even spot the problem if I had the actual device in my hands15:10
whitequarkhm, I've used single-sided PCB15:11
DocScrutinizeryou know those electric nail guns to nail things on wood?15:11
DocScrutinizerI had one that refused to nail the isolation to my roof inside - turned out it was because there's been tin foil inside the whool mats15:12
whitequarkI've only seen a mechanical staple gun, not sure if it is related15:12
DocScrutinizerelectromagnetic staple gun15:13
lunavorax_frizzlHum, the gumstix products are interesting15:13
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: hmm, so it accelerates staples with a coil or something like that??15:14
DocScrutinizerhad a coil the size of a huge camembert at the upper end, ~20cm from the nailing end where the tinfoil been. Still the tinfoil caused the electromagnet to fail15:14
DocScrutinizerthe coil just pulls a hammer/bolt to neil the staple15:15
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: sure, no problem15:15
wolfspraullet me check how the authentication works again :-)15:16
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: that's weird15:16
DocScrutinizerjust to show you coils care for their environment way farther than you'd think, sometimes15:16
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: do you want to upload with DAV or ssh?15:16
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: SSH better15:16
whitequarkgoing to home now, bbl15:17
wolfsprauldo you have a URL to your public key? or email it to me15:17
DocScrutinizerdepending on build of your coil it may have more or less of mag field escaping the component 15:17
DocScrutinizerbtw the abstract art video is uploaded ;-)15:21
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: so?15:29
wolfsprauldid you email your pubkey?15:33
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: no email yet. I need your public key.15:34
wolfspraulyou can give me a url if it's online somewhere, otherwise email15:34
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: how do I get my pubkey? especially if I have 3 PCs? :)15:36
wolfspraulcheck in .ssh/id_dsa.pub15:36
wolfspraulyou can arrange your keys in any way you like, you can use the same private/public key pair on multiple computers, or you can have multiple keypairs on one computer and use them for different purposes15:37
wolfspraulbut if you want to upload files, I need some public key from you, then you authenticate yourself with the posession of the matching private key15:38
wolfspraulif you don't have a keypair yet, you can create one with ssh-keygen15:38
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: cat: .ssh/id_dsa.pub: No such file or directory15:44
wolfspraulrun ssh-keygen :-)15:45
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: it made id_rsa.pub :P15:45
wolfspraulnow email it to me15:48
wolfsprauldon't ever email or publish the id_rsa anywhere, that's your private key15:48
wolfspraulonly the .pub15:48
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: ok, what email?15:54
wolfspraulyou have a lot from me in your inbox, no? wolfgang@sharism.cc15:58
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: done15:59
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Removed fake double buffering. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/7dac30616:03
DocScrutinizersorry for OT, a short networking/ssh-maybe question. (in case somebody knows instant answer, rtfm fine with ptr):16:05
DocScrutinizerJun  2 04:35:07 lagrange sshd[11460]: subsystem request for sftp16:05
DocScrutinizerJun  2 04:38:54 lagrange sshd[11460]: channel 0: rcvd big packet 32797, maxpack 3276816:05
DocScrutinizerhow to fix this? needs it fix at all?16:05
DocScrutinizer(sftp upload to that box)16:05
qi-bot[commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Surface: Fixed memory leak in previous commit. http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/0c867aa16:08
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: what nick do you want to have on the server?16:11
wolfspraul /people/???/files16:12
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: vladkorotnev16:12
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: ok you can try scp some_file www-data@downloads.qi-hardware.com:vladkorotnev/16:15
wpwrakvladkorotnev: for copying things to www-data...., you may find this script useful: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/wernermisc/source/tree/master/bin/qippl16:17
wpwrakvladkorotnev: just change the DIR variable to vladkorotnev16:17
wpwrakvladkorotnev: if you invoke it as  qippl file file ... dir, it will copy the files to the respective directory under vladkorotnev/16:18
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: can I use a Ftp client?16:19
wpwrakvladkorotnev: if you invoke it just as "qippl", it will log you on via ssh. e.g., to move/delete/etc. files, make directories, etc.16:19
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: I mean, SFtp client?16:19
wpwrakftp is so 1980 ;-)16:19
wolfspraulactually I don't know about sftp16:21
wolfspraultry to upload 1 file, then I know whether it works and I can go to sleep :-)16:21
wolfspraulthe rest is for later :-)16:21
wpwrakstfp should work. just tried it. connects fine. it's just less convenient than scp (or my qippl script)16:21
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: i need just the password and login for my client, it doesn't know how to add :vladkorotnev to the end of the address16:22
wpwrakvladkorotnev: there's no "vladkorotnev" account. 16:23
wpwrakvladkorotnev: you use the www-data account but do things only in the vladkorotnev directory. (and not in, say, werner/ ;-)16:24
wpwrakso for sftp, you;d simply: sftp www-data@downloads.qi-hardware.com16:24
wpwrakcd vladkorotnev16:24
wpwrakand so on ...16:24
vladkorotnevwpwrak: then what password should I use?16:25
wpwraknon. you authenticate with your ssh key16:26
wpwrakso you have to run the sftp from the same account under which you've created the key you sent to wolfgang16:26
vladkorotnevwpwrak: it doesn't let me from the gui16:26
wolfspraulyou ran ssh-keygen from a command line earlier16:27
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: I know :P16:28
vladkorotnevI use sftp, it works16:28
vladkorotnevCyberduck doesn't :P16:28
wolfspraulsleep is near16:28
wolfspraulif you need more help, I'm back tomorrow :-)16:29
vladkorotnevok :P16:29
wpwrakvladkorotnev: consider having some roasted cyberduck for dinner ;-)16:31
vladkorotnevwpwrak: lol16:32
kyakhm.. i'm using davfs for that :)16:32
wpwrakyou guys are scary ;-)16:32
kyakhttp://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/kyak on /home/bas/people/kyak type davfs16:32
wpwrakkyak: alright, mounting it as an fs is semi-okay. if you're very disciplined :)16:52
DocScrutinizerI'm using "sftp://foo@bardideldum" in konqueror for that, which btw is the cause of log warning I asked about some lines up16:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I'm here. Can you post a link to the video again?17:42
DocScrutinizerit's basically a bit too long and large, but I had no video editor at hand anyway17:44
DocScrutinizerdunno if you could stream it17:44
DocScrutinizerI mean playback while still downloading17:44
whitequarkwell, I could... if only it wasn't slow as hell17:45
DocScrutinizerduh, the server should have a backbone it the GB range17:46
whitequarkthe speed jumps randomly from 1K/s to 300K/s17:49
Action: Fusin listens to NanowaR - Blood of the Queen.17:50
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I'm ashamed to admit that, but I just forgot torrent client at the background :/17:56
whitequarkthe server is fine then.17:56
FusinspontanousArt_madBatShit is not played on a Ben :-( It's Nokian :-\17:56
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: you "like" it?17:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: still downloading18:00
DocScrutinizerI'd not know how to code such a funny video-art when I had to ;-P18:00
DocScrutinizerthere once been a program to create similar effects based on the music playing, on linux like 10 years ago. Forgot the name18:02
Action: whitequark is watching18:14
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: ahem. I didn't quite got the idea, but at least I enjoyed the music :)18:15
DocScrutinizer51whitequark: it's mere random - some weird hickup in the gfx 18:17
DocScrutinizer51I had to reboot to fix it and got no idea what triggerwed it or how to reproduce18:18
whitequarkDocScrutinizer51: can you help me with the softvol in alsa? here's the relevant data: http://pastie.org/200509218:21
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.trunk-06012011-1849/22:01
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: notices but postponed due to time of day22:16
DocScrutinizersure I'll help22:16
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: what's the problem? you noticed what I posted here some xx hours ago, to you?22:18
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: you've posted a link to your script, which has created .asoundrc for me, but that does not work22:19
DocScrutinizerif it's the "wrong format" probelm - use -f s16_le22:19
whitequarkthat was the last your message on the topic I've seen22:19
DocScrutinizernah, there was a more recent post of mine22:20
whitequarkoh. then I've missed it probably22:20
DocScrutinizersearch for s16_22:20
DocScrutinizerI tried to reproduce your problem and got audio working22:21
DocScrutinizer8bit wont work22:21
whitequarkstill the same error message22:21
DocScrutinizeryou need -f s16_le22:21
whitequarkyes, I've added22:22
DocScrutinizerummmm no idea22:23
DocScrutinizerthere's a straight patern to get things working. I'm too tired for it now22:24
DocScrutinizerhint: add garbage to random line of alsa config, see if aplay complains22:25
DocScrutinizerline1: kiss_me_ALSA -> ALSA not saying "wrong char in line1,char3" -> your file has problems (wrong perm, wrong user, wrong name, etc)22:27
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: shouldn;t that be "kiss mY alsa" ? :)23:42
whitequarkwpwrak: where are all the low-level (bitbanging?) functions defined in ben-wpan git tree?23:56
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