#qi-hardware IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-06-01

wpwrakwolfspraul: ah, an idea for web improvements: a substitution that converts URLs like  http://src.qi-hw.com/([^/]*)/(.*)  into  http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/master/$202:25
wpwrakwolfspraul: that would keep links to source a bit more sane02:26
wolfspraulhe, nice idea02:34
mthsounds like a good idea, but should "master" be in the fixed part?02:38
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: konqueror does that with user defined services  wp:wiki  wpe:england #:man man ##:info man02:39
mthI mostly use qi-kernel, I don't know if that's an exception or not regarding the use of branches02:39
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: yeah, but posting browser-specific links would be a little mean, wouldn't it ? ;-)02:39
DocScrutinizeraaah you meant aliases on apache02:40
DocScrutinizeron maemo wiki I think there are a lot of thise02:41
wpwrakmth: i think in most cases, "master" should work fine. well, it maybe make it a project-specific standard branch, defaulting to "master" :)02:41
DocScrutinizerwhy not /m/ instead /p/, for /m/aster?02:42
DocScrutinizererr nm02:42
mthwpwrak: project specific default branch is probably sufficient for 99% of the use cases02:44
DocScrutinizersrcm. for source/tree/master - src. for source/tree02:44
mthit might be harder to set up though than a hardcoded "master"02:44
DocScrutinizerso http://srcm.qi-hw.com/X/Y  == http://src.qi-hw.com/X/master/Y02:47
DocScrutinizernb second form is perfectly allowable with your regex02:47
DocScrutinizer$2=master/Y02:48
mthmight be more complex than it's worth02:48
mthwhat about http://src.qi-hw.com/([^/]*)/(.*) -> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/default/$2 -> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/$1/source/tree/master/$2 ?02:50
mthso implement the default branch as a redirect in PHP02:50
mththat might be easier in case the first step is done with mod_rewrite02:51
mthor some other configurable but not programmable module02:52
wpwrakdunno. implementation detail ;-)02:52
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: (uptime breakdown) only 7h, but do you think it caused a hangover that shows after 12h of being awake?02:54
wolfspraulDocScrutinizer: I read in the news about Nokia's forecast warning etc. That sounds ugly.02:55
DocScrutinizer*shrug*02:55
DocScrutinizer-15%02:55
wolfspraulI'm wondering what's happening. Massive exodus everywhere?02:55
DocScrutinizerstock exchange penalty02:55
wpwrakwolfspraul: nothing we didn't predict, did we ? :)02:55
wolfspraulhundreds of Nokia staff updating their linkedin profiles?02:55
wolfsprauldistributors reallocating marketing resources to android?02:56
DocScrutinizerprolly02:56
wolfspraulemployees checking which dates they need to reach to be entitled to certain benefits?02:56
wpwrakpeople considering symbian as "dead". and nokia has neither iphone nor android to offer, so they don't buy nokia smartphones.02:57
wolfsprauland what does it mean to meego? probably there is so much chaos inside nokia now that nothing comprehensive can come out anywhere :-)02:57
wolfspraulI was thinking about meeting with some Nokia execs I could get in touch with here in Beijing, but pushing it away for months.02:57
wolfspraultoo much chaos there I feel, but maybe eventually I should still try...02:58
wolfspraulwhat we are doing would just be another distraction for Nokia right now02:58
wolfspraulI think they first have to plain survive02:58
wpwrakconsidering that MS make several dollars per android sold, i wonder if their "help" for nokia wasn't just a move to kill them more quickly, so that they don't disturb the profitable android ipr business02:58
DocScrutinizerwolfspraul: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-05-31.log.html#t2011-05-31T23:28:1302:59
DocScrutinizer>>I can't believe no-one's taken a pot shot at Elop yet<<   [<-- Nokian]03:00
wpwrakthe finns are generally nice and quiet people ...03:02
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: you're not the first one to think this03:03
DocScrutinizerseen a picture where balmer and elop shake hands, and somebody made elop say "mission accomplished"03:04
mthwpwrak: they're getting paid for Android phones by HTC, not for all Android phones (although they'll certainly try)03:04
wpwraknot "bwahahaha" ? ;-)03:04
wolfspraulyes but what does it mean for meego?03:05
wolfspraulare there any meego people that want to branch out and try to reboot in a startup outside?03:05
wpwrakmth: yup. was on heise recently. USD 5 per unit. even more from non-HTC, it seems.03:05
DocScrutinizerefectively nokia binned meego03:05
wpwrakwolfspraul: presumably, there are03:05
wolfspraulor they are all clinging to their comfy nokia positions as long as possible...03:06
DocScrutinizerthere's no make-a-living in meego handset UX03:06
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: intel money ?03:07
DocScrutinizerElop came from M$ and said "bend over, Nokia!", and Nokia asked "how far?"03:08
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: that's what I'm at atm03:08
DocScrutinizerthey need a platform, before meego handset UX has *any* future03:09
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: (how far) do you really think they even talked back to them ? :)03:09
wpwrakgrmbl. qi-hw list traffic for may at an all-time low. well, it can only get better ;-)03:10
mthmaybe if Intel really wants to see an x86 phone they'll pay for that03:10
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: and Intel isn't directly involved or interested in meego HS-UX, as they don't sell phones03:11
mthif iOS and Android can be retrofitted from phone UI to phone + tablet UI, maybe MeeGo can go in the opposite direction?03:12
mthalthough going from less to more screen space is easier03:13
DocScrutinizermth: that's my idea - Intel sponsoring development of a new open platform to build meego HSUX on it, then eventually they easily port to x86 and sell their crappy processors to phone manufs03:13
mthMeeGo is already running on both ARM and x86, isn't it?03:14
DocScrutinizerit's running on X86 tablets - the tablet UX03:14
DocScrutinizerit's not really running on ARM N90003:15
mthmore like crawling?03:15
DocScrutinizerand they are running short of N900s ;-D03:15
DocScrutinizerand no more support from Nokia03:15
DocScrutinizernot really03:15
DocScrutinizeras in "we insist on keeping battery management entity a closed blob"03:16
mthah03:16
DocScrutinizerand last thing rumour has is the promised "meego device" actually is yet another maemo device, though crippled to look like it was meego03:17
DocScrutinizeraiui they want to call it "meego harmattan "Hybrid Edition" - and there's been hassle as they weren't allowed to use meego(R) for that03:19
DocScrutinizer</rumour>03:19
mthI'm wondering if I should buy one before it's no longer available or avoid it since it won't ever be properly supported03:20
DocScrutinizerN900?03:20
mthyes, or the new device03:21
DocScrutinizerit's a great hw, and maemo works reasonably well on it03:21
DocScrutinizerthe "new device" seems to be a capacitive touchscreen one, and quality of hw kbd is still questionable03:21
mthI earn my salary with iOS, but it's too closed to buy for myself and jailbreaking is too much hassle with updates03:22
DocScrutinizerhas a certain coolness factor anyway, but I probably don't like it03:22
DocScrutinizeresp with this "meego" on it03:22
mthI'm used to capacitive screens from Apple, the only problem is fingerprints03:22
wpwrakmth: wear gloves ! ;-)03:23
DocScrutinizermuhahaha03:23
mthit will have to be special gloves or it won't recognise the touches03:23
DocScrutinizerwell, FCC disclose scheduled for 26th03:24
DocScrutinizerso we'll probably hear sth from nokia prior to that date03:24
DocScrutinizera nokia tweet announced "something" for today03:25
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: elop retires ? ;)03:25
DocScrutinizerI#m afraid he won't03:26
mthI'm not in a hurry, I've still got a monochrome phone that does very little except calling and SMS, but after a battery replacement it lasts a week on a charge03:27
wpwrakwhy not ? the damage is pretty much done. you don't have to stay aboard to watch the ship sink. much nicer to do this from the beach of a nearby island ...03:27
wpwrakmth: the batteries are what i'll miss most about nokia ... you could get them anywhere, and they're nicely compatible with so many other things ...03:27
DocScrutinizeragreed, but you might want to make sure there's no new life coming up e.g from the small but vivid maemo/meego department03:28
DocScrutinizerhell, Nokians even appear on community channels and dare to talk about Elop pot shot and gamble with testing limits of their NDA03:30
wpwraknaw, even better to let them try to save the crashing misery and burn out in the process. they'd be much more dangerous with all the ballast.03:30
wpwraks/with/without/03:30
DocScrutinizerstarting to get involved into maemo(!) community seamless software update, the community driven successor of Nokia's maemo repository03:30
DocScrutinizeran unheard thin to happen with a Nokian kerneldev to date03:32
DocScrutinizerthing*03:32
DocScrutinizerand he agreed with me 100% about evil concept of polling in recent developments "upstream"03:34
DocScrutinizerI somewhat love that guy03:35
DocScrutinizerhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2011-05-31.log.html#t2011-05-31T17:59:5803:36
whitequarki've just found myself using an SMD rework station to solder a LED with pins (to a pb-free board)04:07
whitequarkthat worked much better than trying to solder it with an iron. is that the method it should be really done?04:07
DocScrutinizererrr04:07
DocScrutinizerI never had a proper SMD rework station to play with ;-)04:08
DocScrutinizerkinda too expensive for a hobby tool used twice a year04:09
DocScrutinizer(my plans to establish a European Openmoko R&D and repair center nearby never panned out ;-D )04:10
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: maybe calling it an "SMD rework station" was too encouraging. it's just a chinese heat gun04:10
whitequarkcombined with a good iron04:10
whitequarkthat was maybe just above $10004:10
DocScrutinizeraaah04:10
DocScrutinizerI thought about a thing 100 times the price tag04:11
DocScrutinizermay 50 times04:11
whitequarkwrong terms again :/04:11
DocScrutinizer+be04:11
whitequarkit's still very useful, through04:12
DocScrutinizersure04:12
DocScrutinizerI got a pair of desoldering tweezers fro Taipei, friggin useful and was ~20$04:12
whitequarkdesoldering tweezers, huh. can you show a link/photo?04:13
DocScrutinizerhmmm04:13
whitequarksounds weird to me04:13
whitequarkah yes, I've got it04:14
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.mercateo.com/p/139A-4683614/SMD_DESOLDERING_TWEEZERS_Typ_226.html?showSimplePage=NO&utm_source=product-search&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=Entl(f6)tpinzette#xytronics-smd-desoldering-tweezers-typ-226-xytronics04:14
whitequarkthe thingy to desolder all those 0402 SMD passive elements04:14
DocScrutinizerexactly04:14
DocScrutinizermere fun04:14
whitequarkI prefer more... compact way04:15
whitequarkjust touch them with a side of iron04:15
whitequarkand use plain tweezers04:15
whitequarkworks like a charm04:15
DocScrutinizerworks as long as you have "free air"04:15
whitequarkhm, right04:15
DocScrutinizerotherwise you easily desolder half your device at one time04:16
whitequarkwell, I never actually worked with elements less than 0805, 'cause the only shop I know which sells them from one part has a price tag of $0.3 per one04:17
whitequarkand that turns into a lot for even a small board04:17
DocScrutinizerhehe04:19
whitequark0805 are quite common and are easily bought in any quantities for nothing04:19
vladkorotnevhello everyone04:19
whitequarkvlad, hi04:19
DocScrutinizerI got a whole "book" of beads, and one of R, if you're interested ;-)04:19
Jay7kyak: looking on russian keyboard in news :)04:19
vladkorotnevcould anyone please help me with compiling a package?04:20
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I wonder if there is some chinese supplier which sells a package of 20x each of E14 series04:20
Jay7kyak: imho phonetic layout may be easier to use04:20
vladkorotnevit fails with "mipsel-openwrt-linux-uclibc-ar: illegal option -- n"04:20
DocScrutinizerdunno, I guess the one I got is probably original chinese04:20
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: I've seen those things for 0805 here04:20
DocScrutinizerlemme have a look04:20
DocScrutinizerNOVA comp-card-system04:23
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: ^^^04:23
whitequarkhm, .de04:26
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: that's just a box, right? (Yes, it's a very good box, through, but I've already found one...)04:27
DocScrutinizerCORC-0404:27
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.nova-elektronik.de/compcards/chip0603.php04:28
whitequarkah, so they also sell them pre-filled04:29
whitequarkthat's interesting, thanks04:31
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: no idea if you can get anything like that over there, heard sending goods from western Europe is next to impossible04:41
DocScrutinizerpossibly getting sth from China or dunno is easier, but you'll know better04:42
Jay7it's just unpredictable :)04:42
Jay7not impossible :)04:42
whitequarkhttp://ebaytoday.ru has mail forwarding service in Germany04:43
whitequarkso that will be easy, through quite expensive at all04:43
DocScrutinizersending an N900 from Nokia to paul fertser turned out to be a mission impossible, finally ru customs asked for more monney to *proceed* the package than the whole device been worth04:44
Jay7hehe04:44
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: iirc N900 costs more than 10000 RUR, and there is some stupid customs limit in that order04:46
Jay7it's always safer to use some relative04:46
DocScrutinizerafter DHL returned the package in warshaw or somewhere as they noticed the addr as given in accordance to what helsinki DHL said it has to look like wasn't "deliverable" - ""no pkg delivery to private person, only to companies""04:46
whitequarkI've only used airmail to date, and it was fine, through _extremely_ slow04:47
Jay7whitequark: now that limit is raised04:47
DocScrutinizerPaul gave addr of his university or sth, and in Warshaw they noticed that's not good enough04:47
Jay7iirc, about $100004:47
Jay7DocScrutinizer: DHL is courier delivery, they have other law :)04:48
whitequarkbecause of that, ebaytoday even recommends lying in the customs declaration (not to mention they explicitly recommend _not_ to write that apple products are inside, because the package might get stolen otherwise)04:48
DocScrutinizerand stupid Nokia was unable to send any other way than DHL :-/04:48
DocScrutinizerMy suggestion to send the device to me and I'll forward it didn't fly for some odd reason04:50
DocScrutinizerI think finally Paul got a used devel device from another developer in Moskow, and the Nokia-sent N900 probably vanished at customs :-P04:51
DocScrutinizerdarn, that has cost me some weeks of my life04:52
Jay7DocScrutinizer: imagine what does it cost for people here..04:52
DocScrutinizerprobably worse an experience than all the TI OMAP3430 datasheet studying ;-P04:53
DocScrutinizerbut it resulted in N900 h-e-n usb-hostmode finally, one way or the other04:53
DocScrutinizerso maybe been worth it04:54
Jay7hm..04:55
Jay7I definitely should provide some info on my site about jay-tech.de...04:55
Action: Jay7 have site jay-tech.ru04:55
Jay7some people with jay-tech's products are going to my site to ask some questions :)04:55
DocScrutinizerrelated to jay-7ech ? ;-)04:55
Jay7DocScrutinizer: yeah :)04:56
Jay7my nickname in RusNet is Jay w/o 7 :)04:56
Jay7so that's my tech ;)04:56
DocScrutinizerwhat's about that site?04:56
Jay7IT for SOHO business04:57
Jay7consulting/solutions/etc04:57
DocScrutinizermhm04:58
DocScrutinizersounds strangely familiar04:58
DocScrutinizerI couldn't have run into jay-tech.de incidentally05:00
Jay7jay-tech.de producing some devices like cameras and netbooks05:00
Jay7I've two calls one time about netbook problems :)05:01
DocScrutinizerthough I think I've seen products like cameras labeled jay-tech05:01
Jay7jay-tech's production is very popular because of germany duty-free :)05:03
Jay7they are cheap there05:03
DocScrutinizeryeah, dirt cheap05:03
Jay7but after all they have no support out of germany05:04
DocScrutinizerthat's what I think I recall about jay-tech products05:04
DocScrutinizercheap silver plastic05:04
DocScrutinizer"video camera" with 128MB storage, things like this05:06
DocScrutinizerthe stuff the advertise at homeshopping TV channels, at 3'o in the night05:07
Jay7:)05:08
Action: whitequark has just got to fix USB-SATA enclosure bought in Britain: a pad for the SATA connector was missing completely05:08
whitequarkand there ever was a Q.C.Passed label05:08
DocScrutinizerLL05:09
DocScrutinizerLOL05:09
Action: DocScrutinizer needs to vacuum his kbd :-S05:09
whitequarkah yes, they've "fixed" it05:10
whitequarkwith a thing I overlooked as a solder bridge05:10
whitequarka week ago I've seen a chinese hard drive enclosure. they've put in a small package with four screws, and even a small screwdriver05:14
whitequarknow the fun part: the case was made in a way which completely prevented access to the mounting holes05:14
whitequarki.e. it was composed of two parts glued together nicely, one in another, and the inner one had the holes.05:15
kyakJay7: heh, in fact, this (cyrillic layout) has been implemented months ago :) I just made a nice picture of keyboard in recent days05:28
kyakJay7: and yeah, i've been thinking about phonetic layout for quite some time now, just didn't lay my hands on it yet :)05:29
kyakphonetic layout or engraving? :)05:29
Jay7kyak: I mean layout05:29
kyaki mean, this is what i'm thinkinh05:30
Jay7then you may live w/o engraving :)05:30
Jay7I have some xmodmap's for zaurus05:30
Jay7with phonetic layout05:30
kyaka proposal from someone who already using phonetic layout would be helpful. I mean, where exactly to put 7 (33-26) cyrillic letters.05:32
kyaka picture or keymap05:32
Jay7kyak: I'll look05:41
vladkorotnevcould someone help me with this?06:19
vladkorotnevhttp://pastie.org/200199906:19
kyakobviously a problem in Install section of your Makefile06:21
vladkorotnevkyak: PM06:22
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: new package: crashmail: CrashMail II is basically http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/db4f17408:54
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: hmm, i suck at electromagnetism. if I run a probe wire for a few cm in parallel to one wire of a mains cable (220 Vac, let's say Iac = 1 A), distance limited by isolation, so maybe 2 mm center to center, will i be able to pick up any perceptible energy that way ?09:15
whitequarkwpwrak: once I've played with my scope and it probably picked up some voltage in range of millivolts in a similar case09:27
whitequarkI'm not completely sure through, that might be caused by some other effect09:28
wpwrakwhitequark: that would be a few pA then, if it was that09:30
wpwrakerr no, even nA. luxury ! ;-)09:30
whitequarkwpwrak: again, that sounds doubtfully for me. maybe I'm worrong.09:36
whitequark*wrong09:37
kyakxMff: hi! Did you have any luck fighting that *-dev automagic in OpenWrt?10:24
xMffkyak: not yet, got swamped with work related stuff10:25
kyaki see, the summer started good :)10:27
xMffwell... sales and management demand crazy stuff10:27
xMffthe usual corporate insanity10:28
kyakif my experience tells right, this is going to ramp down soon.. till the end of summer10:28
xMff;)10:34
kristianpaul"Remove the CPU microcode and see whether your BIOS will run at all." he :-)11:03
zearhey guys11:45
kyakhey zear11:55
heberthkristianpaul: que pasa con liure?14:09
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: you bet you will :-)15:54
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: e.g. it's pretty enough energy to make a LCD display operate15:56
kyakcould it be?15:56
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: oh, wow. i didn't expect it to be nearly that strong.15:57
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: do you know how (i.e., keywords for google ;) i could find some circuit (schematics) that does things with this sort of energy harvesting ?15:58
DocScrutinizerthere are those voltprobe "screwdrivers" that have a LCD instead of a gas discharge lamp. You can follow AC wires in the wall with them 15:58
DocScrutinizerof course each true wirefinder does the trick with a few transistors15:59
DocScrutinizerplus batery and piezobeeper/LED16:00
wpwrakgreat. so they even work for wires where current goes both ways. is this still induction they use ? i thought the fields would roughly cancel each other out16:00
DocScrutinizercapacitive coupling16:01
DocScrutinizerthose don't detect current, they detect voltage16:02
DocScrutinizercurrent of some A will detectable as well, but not with a single ended wire16:02
DocScrutinizerasymmetrics16:03
DocScrutinizerit's not exactly twisted-pair16:04
wpwrakyeah, i was thinking of inductive coupling16:06
DocScrutinizerinductive works for all asymmetric detectors, i.e. it won't help to wind a wire around the cable but you may place a coil *beneath* the cable16:13
DocScrutinizer1000BT must not run in parallel to AC wires16:13
DocScrutinizer;-)16:14
vladkorotnevhello everyone :P16:37
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.full_system-05312011-0348/16:49
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: if you'd elaborate after what you are exactly, I'd probably be able to help more specifically17:00
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: if you have access to a single wire, you quite usually use a coil wound on a toroid that can get opened to grip around the wire to test17:06
DocScrutinizercommonly known as "Zangen-Amperemeter"17:07
DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zangenamperemeter17:08
DocScrutinizerNB the toroid can be of any size, shape, and a variety of ferromagnetic materials17:10
DocScrutinizerOTOH there MUST NOT be any cables or even pipes in parallel to lighting conductor wires. And - as mentioned above - ethernet cabling mustn't run in parallel to power cables with less than 20cm distance17:17
DocScrutinizerinductive coupling is a reality ;-)17:18
DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zangenamperemeter#Sonderausf.C3.BChrung_f.C3.BCr_mehradrige_Leitungen  ;-D17:22
DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromsensor17:22
DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Platinen-stromsensor.svg&filetimestamp=2008111320554217:23
DocScrutinizercool (didn't know yet): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromsensor#Nutzung_des_Faraday-Effektes17:26
whitequarkthere's some discussion of pulseaudio on the mailing list17:49
whitequarkwas someone able to start it on ben?17:51
DocScrutinizerlol, PA18:54
DocScrutinizerpukeaudio18:54
DocScrutinizerwe recently found out PA << ALSA and ever was, and even fans of PA had no better argument why we need this cruft at all, other than "I like it"18:55
DocScrutinizerwe found not a *single* argument/feature that would suggest PA is a better solution for any particular problem18:56
DocScrutinizerALSa can do literally all that PA claims to do, and usually ALSA is better on it18:57
DocScrutinizeronly problem of ALSA being it's been a development sponsored and driven by SuSE, and obviously not may of the other esp debian-based distros bothered to properly integrate it so it'd work OOTB without user twiddling with its setting a bit18:59
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: there's several things I love pulseaudio for: ability to change sound level _and_ audio sink for each application in a nice gui19:01
whitequarkhm, okay, one thing.19:01
DocScrutinizerau contraire jacekowski pointed out PA forces him to do mixing in SW eating up CPU cycles for nothing, while his soundblaster audiocard is well capable of full hw mixing19:01
whitequarkI consider it as an acceptable tradeoff for an ability of fine-tuning sound output19:02
DocScrutinizerand HW mixing is and even been supported by ALSA19:03
DocScrutinizerplease don't get me going, just believe me there's an ALSA way to do that, since eternity19:03
DocScrutinizerfor all the points you might want to rise19:03
DocScrutinizerthere's softvol in ALSA19:04
whitequarkI'd be really happy if someone wrote a handy tool for managing that. currently it only exists for PA, and that's why I use it19:06
DocScrutinizerthere's been mixing in ALSA since 1999, though most isers thought ALSA can't do that at all19:06
DocScrutinizeruh? tool for using softvol???19:06
DocScrutinizermompls...19:06
DocScrutinizerhttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/173119:07
DocScrutinizercan't get more handy, as it's fully ntegrated into what soundcard micer always been like19:07
DocScrutinizermixer*19:07
DocScrutinizerso no, there's actually no tool for that, as you don't need any19:08
whitequarkhm...19:10
whitequarkwell, okay, it is possible with alsa, fine.19:11
whitequarkbut I don't want to mess with scripts, I want just to move a slider and that's it19:11
whitequarkwhy wasn't it integrated to alsamixer?19:11
DocScrutinizerand I'm away -as I'm not interested in another debate about it19:12
whitequarkokay.19:12
DocScrutinizerthat IS just a slider btw, the script is a run-once script to setup your system correctly19:12
whitequarkso it should be run once per app?19:13
DocScrutinizerno, once per lifetime of your system19:13
DocScrutinizerthen you just need to select correct audio device for your app ant that's it19:14
whitequarkthen it's really cool, thanks19:14
DocScrutinizero/19:14
whitequarkno more pulseaudio :)19:14
whitequarkI wonder why isn't it in default alsa packages19:14
DocScrutinizersee above, there's a lot missing in ALSA OOTB config, in other than SuSE distros. This softvol config though is my baby and not even found there19:34
whitequarkit definitely should be included19:35
DocScrutinizerhow to use: you add the pcm.vol { } definition to your alsa config in ~/.asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf , then instead of doing e.g >> aplay -D dolby5.1 mysong.wav << you simply do >> aplay -D vol:songs,dolby5.1 <<  and ALSA will create a slider "songs" showing up in all mixers, for your convenience19:40
whitequarkand what if I want e.g. to use Chromium this way?19:41
whitequarkor pidgin or <insert a gui app here>19:41
DocScrutinizererr missed the mysong.wav parameter in second cmd19:41
DocScrutinizerif it's a sane app it has a way to configure the audio device19:42
DocScrutinizeryou simply change the audio device as described above19:42
whitequarksadly, most apps aren't19:42
whitequarkmaybe there is an environment var or such19:42
whitequarklike ALSA_DEFAULT_DEVICE19:42
DocScrutinizerthen you need to override the audiodevice that the app is using, generally "default"19:43
DocScrutinizerreplace pcm.vol {  by pcm.!deafult {  , and instead of >>default "jOERG" << you use sth like >>default $getenv {fsckupaudioapp} << [you need to fix this, it's definitely syntactically incorrect] - then start the app via >> fsckdupaudioapp=MySliderName MyFsckdupAppBinary<< and fine you are19:46
whitequarkimpressive. I never knew that alsa configs are so powerful19:47
whitequarkokay, I've ran your script (without twinkle stuff at bottom), then did "sox bsg_the_music.mp3 -t alsa vol:songs", and it fails with "sox FAIL formats: can't open output file `vol:songs': snd_pcm_hw_params_any error: Invalid argument"19:49
whitequarkwhat should I also replace in generated .asoundrc?19:49
whitequark(I've just added "card 0;" line)19:51
DocScrutinizeror - way simpler:  pcm.!default { slave $getenv FUrealAdio}  and start the app with >> FUrealAudio=vol:MySliderName,default MyApp <<19:51
DocScrutinizersorry I'm in a bit of a pinch, came back as I've forgotten my phone ;-D, and would like to help you later, if you just pastebin your ~/.asoundrc and terminal session c&p19:53
DocScrutinizeralso a aplay -L and aplay -l19:53
DocScrutinizerbbl19:53
DocScrutinizero/19:53
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: http://pastie.org/200509219:57
whitequarkmay I ask why do you use uclibc and not eglibc? the latter is not significantly fatter (maybe ~200k bigger), but you'll get much more compatible libc20:47
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: aplay -vv -D vol:songs -f s16_le </dev/zero21:13
DocScrutinizerhttp://paste.debian.net/118627/21:15
lunavorax_frizzl"à la mode" computing is depressing23:46
lunavorax_frizzlSmartphones, social websites, cloud computing, I really can't get used or like all of theses things. Is it wrong or what ?23:47
wolfspraulpeople are different I guess23:49
lunavorax_frizzlOh, and I forgot "moder desktops"23:50
lunavorax_frizzl(understand "gnome 3"23:50
wolfspraulsome like to hang out in boring jobs, kill downtime during office hours clicking on facebook etc, play computer games once they finally get home at night, etc.23:50
lunavorax_frizzlmodern*23:50
wolfspraulbut not all do :-)23:50
lunavorax_frizzlHehe23:50
lunavorax_frizzlI'm not sad about all of this but I'm seriously curious about all of this23:51
wolfspraulyeah but I think it's because we value things differently23:51
wolfspraulyou don't even need to start with religions to realize that23:51
lunavorax_frizzlThings are changing so fast. When I was a kid, my comrades at school were picking on me for liking computers... now if you don't have the latest smartphone you're a looser.23:51
wolfspraulsome people happily spend 20 years of their life paying off expensive real estate in the expensive metropolitan area they live in23:52
lunavorax_frizzlwolfspraul, you described it perfectly. I'm too picky when it comes to computers.23:52
wolfspraulothers move to the mid-west and buy more property for 10% of the price :-)23:52
lunavorax_frizzlYeah I see23:52
wolfspraul(mid-west as a US concept, but the same is true all over the world)23:52
wolfsprauland the ones hanging out on their ranch are scratching their heads over what the ones in downtown whatever are doing, and vice-versa23:53
wolfspraulwho says that you are a looser without the latest smartphone?23:54
lunavorax_frizzlwolfspraul, noone is saying this to me don't worry ;)23:54
wolfspraulnot worrying23:55
wolfspraulmaybe you think too much23:55
wolfspraul:-)23:55
wolfspraulmaybe actually not many people would say somthing like that23:55
wolfspraulthey can try with me, I will smile and take another sip of my coffee23:55
lunavorax_frizzlBut it's in the mind of the people around me. Like, buying a tablet because you have to... but still no one knows what the hell you can do with it.23:55
wolfspraulI think if you walk around with an ipad now that's pretty embarassing23:55
lunavorax_frizzl(I still don't know what I would do with a tablet too)23:56
lunavorax_frizzlHaha23:56
wolfspraulit's similar to a (real) Louis Vuitton bag23:56
lunavorax_frizzlIt's just the size but I've seen people doing so23:56
wolfspraulso you just put the ipad inside (let it peek out a little) to complete the 'look'23:56
wolfspraulseriously that's all23:56
wolfspraulthe bag is 1000 USD, why shouldn't the stylish acessory that peeks out a little be 500 USD as well23:56
wolfspraulfine by me23:57
lunavorax_frizzlhaha23:57
wolfspraulseriously23:57
wolfspraulhookers also love them23:57
lunavorax_frizzlI'm not saying all of this is good wolfspraul neither that I want to do like all of theses people.23:57
wolfspraulI guess you can ask for a higher price because you come across as a more high-class hooker if you have an ipad at starbucks, rather than a pesky smartphone23:57
wolfspraulthen I see a lot of regular folks with ipads on subway and bus commutes23:58
wolfspraulI will watch how long they do that, looks quite tiring to me23:58
wolfspraulmy estimate is: 6 months23:58
wolfspraulbut why not?23:58
wolfspraulI do nothing, I just enjoy the ride and look out the window.23:59
wolfspraulor in the subway I guess look at other people, hehe :-)23:59
lunavorax_frizzl:)23:59
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