#qi-hardware IRC log for Monday, 2011-05-30

kristianpaulwoakas: do you think is proper to "bomb" mico32 processor with  512K interrupts per second?01:30
kristianpaulwpwrak: ^01:30
kristianpaularggh, i'll disable this autothing..01:30
kristianpauli implemented the method you suguested loong time ago,01:33
kristianpaula circular buffer and a pointer that show me the current writing address01:34
kristianpauloverflow is not managed..01:34
kristianpaulbuffer is just 2048 x 32bits01:38
kristianpaulsige receiver sampling rate is 2.048~ MSPS, but i'm writing to buffer every 4 samples so i can be more efficiente with data bus wide01:42
kristianpaulbut i noticed a posible problem, i was reading/polling from this buffer without feedback and noticed i was reading same data more than 20 times..01:43
kristianpaulhmm i need do some drawing here, minute01:44
kristianpauli'm mising something..01:47
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: nanonote: fix setfont path http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/6087e2301:54
wpwrakkristianpaul: (512 kInterrupts/s) you can probably bombard it - it just won't do very much ;-)02:15
wpwrakkristianpaul: i think you either need some data reduction in the path, DMA, or just make a loop that polls. even polling for "data ready" may be too slow, but you could probably add a "data not ready" signal that just stalls the core.02:17
kristianpaulyeah i was thinking add that "data not ready" signal02:18
kristianpauland resume sampling signal02:19
wpwrakkristianpaul: you could get an estimate for how fast you can go by writing a loop that just reads some peripheral register a number of times.02:19
wpwrakkristianpaul: e.g., uint8_t buf[1000000]; for (i = 0; i != 100; i++) for (j = 0; j != sizeof(buf); j++) buf[j] = REGISTER;02:20
wpwrakthen time how long it takes02:20
kristianpauli thik time command in rtems is kinda no what is in linux..02:21
kristianpaulhow i'm going to measire time..02:21
kristianpauli dont have rtc..02:21
wpwrakdo you have a watch ?02:21
kristianpaulwhat kind of watch? ;)02:21
wpwrakone that shows seconds :)02:22
kristianpaulyes i do wear one02:22
wpwrakthat loop should take 100 s if your max sample rate is 1 MSa/s, 10 s if it's 10 MSa/s, etc. and you can always crank up the end value for i to add more precision to your measurement :)02:23
kristianpaulha, wait i do have a clock, the one from sige chip is 4Mhz after a clock div i need for writing buffer 02:25
kristianpaulokay i'll try wpwrak method02:25
wpwrakdon't worry about the clock ;-) this is just to get an idea of how fast you can read a register. estimate that you'll need 2-3x the time for a loop of the type02:29
wpwrakfor (i = 0; i != sizeof(buf); i++) { while (REG_BUSY); buf[i++] = REG_DATA; }02:29
wpwrakah, and use -O9 ;-)02:30
wpwrakand make sure your register is declared volatile :)02:30
wpwrakgcc may still optimize away the store, but that's okay for now. we're just after an estimate.02:31
kristianpaul[register] volatile unsigned int *count_addr = (volatile unsigned int *)0xe0011004;02:42
kristianpaulthe first loop with the buf[1000000]; took less than a second..02:43
wpwrakhow many outer loops ? (i)02:45
wpwrakwow. that's probably too good to be true.02:47
wpwrakthat would mean that you can read a register and store away the value at > 100 MHz02:47
wpwrakwell, it's not impossible. how long does it take for 1000 outer loops ?02:48
kristianpaulwell, mm1 soc clock is 80Mhz.. mico32 is 6 stage pipeline.. and all soc uses same clock including memory remenber02:50
kristianpauli think i missed something02:51
kristianpaulcode is here just in case http://paste.debian.net/118354/02:51
kristianpauland still less than a second :/..02:52
wpwrakotherwise if becomes a fancy memset ;-)02:53
wpwrakdid you compile with -Wall ? i think it should complain about this02:53
kristianpaulhe yes, it did complain02:54
wpwrakhehe :)02:54
kristianpaul45.51 seconds for i = 10003:01
wpwrak2 MSa/s. that's with -O9 ?03:02
kristianpaulyes -0903:03
wpwraklemme see how long this takes on the ben ...03:03
kristianpaul45.44 seconds for second test, same i value  and stop watch03:05
wpwrakabout 11 seconds on the ben. 4x as fast.03:07
wpwraklekernel should be ashamed ;-)03:07
kristianpaulyou cant compare, the clock is 4.2 times less03:08
kristianpaulasuming ben's clock at 336Mhz03:08
wpwrakyes. so it's about the same clock rate : sample rate ratio. you'd think he'd be more efficient :)03:08
wpwrakcould of course be gcc making the difference. you'd have to examine the assembler code for this.03:09
kristianpaulwell, not today, but benchmarks between nanonote and mm1 soc are good topic :-)03:10
wpwrakanyway, 2 MSa/s when polling registers may be barely enough for your purposes. at 512 kSa/s, that's how large a word ? 8 bits ?03:10
kristianpaulfirst ubb vga, later milkdrop on naonote ;)03:11
kristianpaulwpwrak: no every word is 32 bits :D03:11
kristianpauli forgot tell i fxied buf to uint32_t 03:12
wpwrakah, so the 2 MSa/s is with uint32_t ? trying the ben ...03:13
kristianpaulhe, one last chance !!03:13
wpwrakabout 44 s. nice !03:14
kristianpaulstill not fair as one run rtems and other linux.. but lets forgot that last one03:20
wpwrakoh, the OS should have nearly zero influence on this test03:21
kristianpaulah, ok03:22
kristianpaulgood then :-)03:22
vladkorotnevhello everyone03:30
vladkorotnevI've got a strange problem with openWRT03:30
vladkorotnevweird o_003:31
wpwrakvladkorotnev: maybe miscompiled ? e.g., for a different architecture ?03:35
vladkorotnevno, it is OpenWRT, mips binary03:35
wpwrakwhat does ls -l ge say ?03:35
vladkorotnev http://pastie.org/private/kfjtqmyflhhjaj3urj71hq03:36
wpwrakokay. what does  ldd gedlnx  say then ?03:37
wpwrak(you may need to install ldd first)03:37
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ldd gedlnx03:37
vladkorotnev-ash: gedlnx: not found03:37
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ldd ge03:37
vladkorotnevlibcrypt.so.0 => /lib/libcrypt.so.0 (0x2aabe000)03:37
vladkorotnevlibm.so.0 => /lib/libm.so.0 (0x2aae2000)03:37
vladkorotnevlibc.so.0 => /lib/libc.so.0 (0x2ab0b000)03:37
vladkorotnevld-uClibc.so.0 => /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0 (0x2aaa8000)03:37
wpwrakthat's weird. what do  file ge  and  file gedlnx  say ?03:38
wpwrak"ge" looks too small to be a proper executable. what does  hexdump -C ge  say ?03:39
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# file ge03:39
vladkorotnevge: POSIX shell script text executable03:39
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# file gedlnx03:39
vladkorotnevgedlnx: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, MIPS, MIPS32 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped03:39
wpwrakah, ldd things anything that's not a real executable uses libc and friends :)03:40
wpwrakgedlnx looks good so far ...03:40
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./hpt03:43
vladkorotnev-ash: ./hpt: not found03:43
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./ulc03:43
vladkorotnev-ash: ./ulc: not found03:43
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# ./setup_config.bash03:43
vladkorotnev-ash: ./setup_config.bash: not found03:43
vladkorotnevIt doesn't find any files in that folder :P03:43
wpwrakstrings gedlnx | sed 3q03:43
wpwrakare you sure they're for openwrt ? not for jlime ?03:43
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# strings gedlnx | sed 3q03:43
vladkorotnevyes OpenWRT03:43
vladkorotnevthey were in an ipk03:44
wpwrakstrings gedlnx | grep lib/ld03:44
kristianpaulvladkorotnev: where you get that ipk?03:45
vladkorotnevroot@BenNanoNote:/opt/sbin# strings gedlnx | grep lib/ld03:45
vladkorotnev    /opt/lib/ld-uClibc.so.003:45
wpwrakhah ! very suspicious :)03:45
wpwrakls -l /opt/lib/ld-uClibc.so.003:46
vladkorotnevhttp://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fidoip/index.php?title=Fidoip_on_Routers here03:46
wpwrakprobably best to rebuild from sources. you can work around the /opt easily enough, but there may be more surprises03:47
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: debian: update changelog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/b31873103:48
wpwrakyou're lucky :-)03:50
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: update ChangeLog http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/13eba9103:59
kristianpaul3.0-rc1 = NOTHING :p04:19
kristianpaulgnome should learn from that ;)04:19
DocScrutinizerunrelated: really nice touchscreen (just in case I missed to mention it here) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc04:23
DocScrutinizertake your capacitive screens and ....04:23
kristianpaulwow, looks awesome04:24
kristianpaul(the part with the "pencil")04:25
DocScrutinizernow the *only* argument for c-ts is "glass"04:26
DocScrutinizerI don't need a blade-proof cocaine dispenser screen ;-)04:27
kristianpaulhum if you can correlate resistive measurements with some localizated vibrations on scree it could replace a kbd :-)04:27
DocScrutinizerthere are projects to investigate this - along steam bubble buildup, electrofriction, piezo, ... duno what else04:29
Last message repeated 1 time(s).04:33
kristianpaulCan we sample one for Ya? 04:33
DocScrutinizer(sorry, reconnect)04:33
DocScrutinizerkristianpaul: dunno - never tried04:34
kristianpaulwell, also wondering if worth the effort for a 320x240 lcm as currently ben chips, may be a N900-like size fits better for multitouch :-)04:36
wpwraknice. now wait 20 years before it becomes affordable ...04:37
wpwrakor vote to abolish patents in your jurisdiction TODAY ! ;-)04:38
wpwraki wonder if a country could sign a treaty with china to mutually ignore each other's patents. considering that everything gets made in china anyway, ... ;-)04:39
DocScrutinizerI wonder how to get a stantum-technology touchpanel from manufacturer $RANDOM04:41
kristianpaulwich jurisdiction?, the norh american and his pool of laws been transfered/force in every *free?* trade agrements... :S04:41
DocScrutinizerstantum headquarters: France Bordeaux04:42
DocScrutinizernot too far from here04:42
DocScrutinizerseems those are always built to order04:43
DocScrutinizerso no really free market :-/04:43
DocScrutinizerStantum Asia Pacific: Taipei04:45
wpwrakkristianpaul: well, one of the first ladies expressed the only suitable policy for FTAs quite properly: "just say no" :)04:46
kristianpaulI agree !04:46
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: (not really a free market) let me rephrase this for you: cool new technology doesn't exist - unless you make it yourself04:47
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: that's why all the "cats" here don't help much ...04:48
wpwrak(cats) from "look what the cat's brought in" (dead bird, mouse, etc.)04:49
Action: DocScrutinizer is missing the picture. Don't worry, it's me, as usual04:50
kristianpaulout of memory.. ah yes i forgot just 128Mb.. ;-)04:51
kristianpauli need that ramdisk..04:51
kristianpaulxiangfu:  !04:51
kristianpaulxiangfu: are you aware of the procedure for adding ramdisk to rtems?04:51
wpwrak(cats) people who find some "cool new product". then enthusiastically report it here, suggesting in one way or another "we" (i.e., someone else but them) should use it04:52
kristianpaulseems the current /ramdisk in flickernoise is just the name and not a separate filesystem04:52
whitequarkwhat's wrong with free trade agreements?04:52
wpwrakwhitequark: for one thing the bundle of IPR law requirements that usually come with them04:53
kristianpaulmianlly intellectual pooperty -_-04:53
xiangfuit is yaffs2. not separate04:53
kristianpaulxiangfu: yup, 04:54
whitequarkwpwrak: I don't quite get how IPR are related to the FTA's here...04:55
wpwrakwhitequark: FTAs are contracts containing many items. some of these items are often requirements to adapt your legal system with regard to IPR to the one of the peer04:56
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: I still would like to investigate further on my age old plan to analyze HF pulse response of a dead simple 2 plane r-ts04:57
wpwrakwhitequark: these things tend to be one-sided, e.g., colombia being forced to implement US IPR laws04:57
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: "just do it" ;-)04:57
whitequarkwpwrak: thanks, I understand now04:58
DocScrutinizerwhat's been the appropriate phrase I used last time? "Where's my patent lawyer?!"04:58
DocScrutinizer1) measure wave speed of a r-ts04:59
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: no. "where do i post it ?" so that it solidly becomes prior art, and cannot be stolen from the public domain ;-)04:59
DocScrutinizerhere, as you can see :-)04:59
wpwrakso you want to find reflections, as the wave bounces off obstacles ?05:00
DocScrutinizer2) record response on plane 2 to a pulse in the sub-microsecond range injected to plane one 05:00
DocScrutinizer3) compare pattern of that response for no touchpoint, 1 touchpoint, multitouch05:01
DocScrutinizer2a) record rsponse on all 4 wires of a standard touchscreen05:02
wpwrakhmm. sounds expensive. you need a very very fast ADC then.05:02
DocScrutinizermodulo the expensive. Seems ultrafast ADCs are standard nowadays05:03
DocScrutinizeresp since you can do oversampling05:03
DocScrutinizeri.e. periodic signal & moving window05:05
DocScrutinizerso you only need a precise S&H, the ADC can be relatively slow05:06
wpwrakif you expect your wave to propagate with c = 200'000 km/s and you want a resolution of ~100 dpi (= ~4 dots/mm), you'd need a resolution of about one picosecond. oversample that ;-)05:07
DocScrutinizerC more like a tenth of that05:07
DocScrutinizermaybe less05:07
wpwrak10 ps resolution then05:07
DocScrutinizerI'm not convinced05:08
DocScrutinizeryou can have cat5 cabletesters that tell a bend to the cm05:09
DocScrutinizerand probably that's just where the display stops as more resolution is pointless05:09
wpwrakthey may work with interference patterns05:09
DocScrutinizeryou got laser speedmeter guns05:10
DocScrutinizerthose are definitely working with c=c05:10
wpwraksend wave, mix with return wave, rectify and low-pass filter, see if they cancel each other out05:10
DocScrutinizerwe can do that?05:10
wpwraklaser measurement is usually digital, not analog. they're still not cheap, but a multi-GHz counter is easier to build than a multi-GHz ADC05:11
wpwrak(interference) yup, you could do that05:11
DocScrutinizerfirst find parameters of your system, the think about how to build the electronics to meet those requirements05:12
DocScrutinizerthat's a large plane close to another (capacitor) and it has a really high series R05:13
DocScrutinizerthe wave speed might get extremely low05:13
wpwraktry it: put a scope probe on each end, then send a pulse. look at the difference. if there's none, get a faster scope ;-)05:14
DocScrutinizerI'm more concerned about any wave passing thru at all ;-)05:14
DocScrutinizerthe ersatzschaltbild looks like a really good low pass filter05:15
DocScrutinizerinfinite number of series Rs, with an infinite number of Cs to ground05:16
DocScrutinizer(of course also the value of both R and C going to infinite low on this approximation)05:16
wpwrakwell, simulate it then. qucs is your friend. 2-3 should be a good approximation for "infinite" :-)05:17
DocScrutinizermore like 10 to 2005:17
DocScrutinizereasy calculation: get the resistance of a plane, divide by 10. Get the distance beteen planes and the area, calculate capacitance, device by ten. Just good enough05:18
DocScrutinizernow just use an amp to feed back the response fromplane 2 back to plane 1 ;-)05:20
DocScrutinizervoila: working touchophon05:20
DocScrutinizera pity I got no lab here anymore05:21
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: you could do the simulation, see if the results look promising, then ask on the list if there's anyone with suitable equipment within travel range05:23
DocScrutinizersounds like a plan05:23
vladkorotnevhello everyone 05:24
Action: DocScrutinizer scrutinizes some of the disassembled frerunner touchpanels05:24
Action: DocScrutinizer wonders whether to take useless nap or better get milk for a nice coffee05:28
wpwraksleep refreshes the grey matter :)05:28
DocScrutinizerI'm serously doubting that05:34
wpwrakwell, unless you're a zombie. then you have to eat that grey matter05:35
DocScrutinizerI guess a proper O2-tent would help better05:35
DocScrutinizersleep is overrated05:36
lunavorax_frizzlDocScrutinizer, I wish it was05:37
DocScrutinizerplus I never feel better at waking up than I did when falling asleep05:37
DocScrutinizerbriefly: I hate sleeping05:38
wpwrak"senile bettflucht" ? ;-)05:38
DocScrutinizerwell, first get some supply, can sleep later anyway05:39
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: indeed05:39
kristianpaulpull-in match two prn satellites on view (acording gpredict) !! but no prn match... argh05:43
kristianpaulgn8 !05:43
kristianpaul"This state is enabled for about 1500 ms, during the last 500 ms " hum...05:44
wpwrakso .. one step closer ?05:45
wpwrakcongratulations !!05:45
kristianpaulno yet, i need A FIX05:46
wpwrakrome wasn't built in a day ;-)05:46
wolfspraulmatch something, sounds great :-)05:52
kristianpaulno is not at all, threshold is tricky05:53
kristianpauli can trust on that data until got a prn match,05:53
DocScrutinizero/ wolfspraul 05:53
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: ChangeLog, fix typo http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/6d1f26506:17
xiangfukristianpaul, Hi06:55
xiangfukristianpaul, check this: c/src/lib/libbsp/lm32/milkymist/startup/linkcmds06:55
xiangfukristianpaul, I guess we can just reduce the HeapSize, then we can get a big ramdisk :), needs make sure with Sebastien06:57
whitequark> < DocScrutinizer> sleep is overrated07:23
Action: whitequark is adding that to his quotes07:23
DocScrutinizerand indeed it is, no?07:24
Action: whitequark was watching BSG and House all the night07:24
DocScrutinizermissed TV for IRC. House day is tomorrow :-)07:25
whitequarknot on TV, of course. BSG wasn't aired in Russia AFAIK, and I don't even have the TV box to see House07:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: 4th: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/0122bb007:38
qi-bot[commit] David Kühling: new package: liballegro: a lightweight game and multimedia library http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/3b7bed607:42
whitequarkI'm sure that someone online knows enough SDRAM black magic to answer a simple question: is it possible to stack two chips one on another if I only have one DCS?08:03
whitequarkthe chips I have are 4 banks x 4 MBit x 16, and the CPU is 4725B/4755L08:06
xiangfuwhitequark, the jzboot have included in last xburst-tools. there is a warning when create that package. no manual page for jzboot 08:08
whitequarkxiangfu: thanks for packaging, that's great for jzboot08:10
whitequarkthere's really no manual page, I should write one probably08:10
whitequarkI never did that, through08:10
whitequarkanyone has a good tutorial? :)08:12
xiangfuthere is example. 08:16
xiangfuI almost forget how I create this file :(, needs one command to debug I remember. 08:16
whitequarkoh... that looks quite perl'ish08:17
DocScrutinizerone CS per chip?08:21
DocScrutinizershould suffice, though I dunno how that will pan out nowadays with piggyback stacking storage, with all that narrow timing, and driver energy, and line ringing, and whatnot08:23
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: no, that's the problem. one CS at all08:23
DocScrutinizerlast time I did that was like 20 years ago08:23
DocScrutinizerwell, I gather you got a CS pin on each chip08:23
whitequarkthe 4725B technically has DCS1, but it is not attached to a pin08:24
whitequarkso I only have one CS08:24
DocScrutinizeryou'll obviously need a 2->4 or 4->16 decoder to demux some higher order addr bits08:24
DocScrutinizeryou can even get away with undemuxed addr ranges, like 01xx_xxxx for bank one, and 10xx_xxxx for bank 208:26
DocScrutinizerbut you really need to take care then about your addr ranges you use in your programs08:26
whitequarklook, the DS on the memory chip says: A0-A12 are used for row address, and A0-A8 are used for column address08:28
whitequarkall the address lines wired to the chip are A0-A12, through I can theoretically use A13-A15 by unsoldering the flash08:28
DocScrutinizerand you got no chip select? only a address strobe?08:29
whitequarkbut I think that if I'd use high order address bits to select chips, the EMC will be confused and e.g. don't refresh them correctly, wouldn't it?08:29
whitequarkyeah, I only have one CS08:29
whitequarkhere's the schematic https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8swSjZPphH0M2NhMDNhMDItY2M0OC00MjU0LWI2ZmMtNjE5NjIwYmM2MDhj&hl=ru&authkey=CMr5z4MN?attredirects=008:30
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: I can't answer these questions sufficiently correct, without having a look at the schematics of device and also the datasheets of chips08:31
whitequark(or, if you prefer: http://files.whitequark.org/t/Vogue_01_sch.pdf)08:31
whitequarkhere's the DS for SDRAM: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/H/Y/B/3/HYB39S256160DT-7.shtml08:31
whitequarkand you probably have the one for 4725B already08:31
whitequarkwe here have a near-infinite supply of free 32MB SDRAM chips, and 64MB ones cost around $2008:35
whitequarkgiven that a few people hacking the device ever used heatgun and will probably fry anything at the first attempts, it's not a very good idea to buy these08:36
whitequarkthere are $1.5 ones, of course. but they're BGA.08:37
DocScrutinizeruse gates to distribute RAS/CAS to the two RAM chips08:37
whitequarkso (keeping in mind that no one has a logic analyzer capable of debugging the chip or even scope) there's no simple way08:39
DocScrutinizerrefresh afaik is using only one of those, and can go to both chips. you need to latch a higher order adrr bit of the other one to decide which of your storage chips gets the complete cycle of RAS+CAS of the next real r/w-operation08:40
DocScrutinizernot really08:40
DocScrutinizermodulo I haven't looked at any datasheet yet08:40
DocScrutinizerfinally featuring this out to the gory detail takes like one manday08:41
whitequarkokay, I won't ask you to explore this further, it's just not worth the result08:42
whitequarkI was only hoping there is simple answer08:42
DocScrutinizeryou need to check a lot of things, starting at fan-out of storage datalines and cpu data and addr lines, fan-in of all lines. Timing. Logic of RAS/CAS sequence, refresh scheme08:42
DocScrutinizerif you say you *could* connect a 64 storage chip, then probably best approach is to first compare the 32 and 64 and exactly check out the difference in operation mode. Then start from there 'emulating' the 64 chip with 2 32 plus additional gear08:44
DocScrutinizerhave a short look at the fan-in/out situation, and then just give it a try08:45
whitequarkI don't even know how to attach all those gates to the board08:45
whitequarkso that they'll work at 120MHz08:46
DocScrutinizerI'm famous for my "hedgehog" electronics08:46
whitequarkwait a sec, I'll show you how I did the SD card connection...08:46
DocScrutinizer(120MHz) yeah, toldya I'm not sure those hacks will pan out nowadays at all08:47
whitequarkhttp://rghost.net/7947771 http://rghost.net/7947781 http://rghost.net/7947841 http://rghost.net/7947851 http://rghost.net/794790108:47
whitequarknow, watch my crappy soldering :)08:49
whitequarkwhat's "hedgehog" electronics?08:51
DocScrutinizerit's for example a power supply for a z80 board (-12, +5, +12) built with discrete components like 2N3055 etc, completely without PCB, and about the form and size of a hedgehog, and also feeling like one08:53
whitequarkoh. I can imagine that.08:54
whitequarkI suppose that it was working. now that's impressive08:54
DocScrutinizerof course it worked, until somebody touched it and thus bend it to short some wires08:55
DocScrutinizerafter each transport you had to "hairdress" it do remove all the shorts08:56
whitequarkyou should have embedded that in epoxy. like an insect in a piece of amber08:56
DocScrutinizerpush a bit here, pull a bit there08:56
DocScrutinizernice idea. That would've been ~2L though, and epoxy been rather expensive back when08:57
whitequarkthat's quite a big hedgehog08:57
DocScrutinizertoldy, size of a hedgehog08:57
DocScrutinizerwell, I would have to use some semi-geometric form of any available box, or cup, or whatever08:59
DocScrutinizerthat adds to the volume needed, as a ball isn't easy to form in epoxy08:59
whitequarkhmm. can't you just use, eh, a ball?09:01
DocScrutinizerbtw I'm not sure this would've worked at all, as one undeniable benefit of this "design" been a good ventilation09:02
whitequarkso that was also a hot hedgehog09:02
DocScrutinizerand placing the thing into a ball would make "dressing" unfeasible, so I end up with a nicely encapsulated hedgehog that has shorts and doesn't work09:03
DocScrutinizerwell, as I spent a little fortune for this first computer of my life, and also spent several weeks to solder all of it and trace the 3 missed solderpoints and finally start the whole z80 thing up, I eventually made up my mind and considered the hedgehog way too dangerous if eventually it would short e.g between emitter and collector of one of the regulator transistors. So I rebuilt the whole thing on a proper lab PCB09:08
whitequarkit's good when you have access to some lab09:09
DocScrutinizernah, just a PCB with those zillions of holes in it09:09
DocScrutinizerthey came with either dots or stripes, or completely w/o copper09:10
DocScrutinizerand had a hole raster of 0.109:11
DocScrutinizeraka 2.54mm09:11
DocScrutinizerthey didn't change for like the last 40 years09:12
DocScrutinizerthe lab back when was my dad's cellar (he's also been EE)09:12
whitequarkwas that a two-side pcb?09:13
whitequarkI'm still failing at these09:13
whitequarkah yes. then I have the skills for that pcb :)09:13
whitequarkhow many years of experience in electronics do you have?09:16
DocScrutinizerlike 5 less than i'm old09:17
whitequarkI should have started exploring that earlier :/09:17
DocScrutinizerwhen I was 8 I started reading my father's electronics magazines09:19
DocScrutinizerI started reading and drawing and building simple schematics some years earlier09:20
whitequarksame here, but I was 1209:20
DocScrutinizeras my dad worked at SEL in semiconductor manuf for some time, we had lockers full of boxes with components09:21
whitequarkwhat would you recommend to improve my skills? books maybe, etc.?09:23
DocScrutinizerwhen I was 12 I got some of the first TTL74xx chips Siemens produced in Germany (of course only those which failed QA, the others cost more than gold back when)09:23
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure I can give advice how to practice, as my approach surely wasn't the one you'd choose when you're an adult09:25
whitequarkI'm still interested09:25
DocScrutinizerI think I learned most by reading electronics magazines, there's been "Elector" back when, which came with several schematics each month, and once a year they had a special issue with >>100 schematics - I've rad them all, and sometimes spotted bugs in them ;-)09:27
whitequark(first TTL chips) what year was that?09:28
DocScrutinizerfinding the ones I could build with the components I got (maybe after modifying the schematics and values of components a bit to mach what was available) was also much fun and helped a lot to learn how to calculate those things09:29
DocScrutinizer(year) ~1973 iirc09:30
DocScrutinizerI think I always wondered if they've chosen the 74 part of the name because of the year09:31
DocScrutinizermaybe it's not been Siemens' first german chips, but some new fab nearby - can't remember exactly. Of course the 74 series existed quite a bit longer obviously10:08
whitequarkit's good when you have a fab nearby10:13
DocScrutinizerI had an uncle "nearby" :-) - he worked at Siemens10:14
whitequarknow, when there are almost no manufacturers alive here, it's very hard to buy materials like aluminium sheets (I'm trying to make some custom cases), or textolite (not the foiled one, I mean), or fluoroplastic in sane quantities10:15
whitequarkwhen no one uses these, there are no scraps :)10:15
DocScrutinizerand I thought he's the friggin only true santa when he came and offered me this bag of chips10:15
whitequarkthat was truly a great gift10:15
whitequarkI've just found a nearby company which offers a really good price for small quantities of laser cut materials10:18
whitequarklike $1.5 for 1.5 meters of perimeter (bigger is cheaper)10:18
whitequarkI hope this will finally make me able to do a simple, but good-looking case10:18
DocScrutinizernow that's cool10:19
whitequarkyeah, I once thought that it only was possible in USA or Europe, everyone I found here wanted a minimal order of ~$30010:19
DocScrutinizerI guess complex shapes will quickly rise the pricetag10:19
whitequarkwhy? I think they only compute the price by cutting machine time + preparation time10:20
whitequarkisn't the actual shape indifferent for the machine?10:21
DocScrutinizerpreparation time. how do you provide the shape data?10:21
whitequarkdxf or solidworks10:21
DocScrutinizeraah k, then it shouldn't matter10:21
whitequarkI didn't had experience with either of them10:22
whitequarkcan you recommend a good simple CAD to make a 2D shape?10:22
Action: DocScrutinizer neither, only heard of it10:22
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: to the rescue! :-D10:22
whitequarkalso, there are some inherent problems with the design10:24
whitequarkthe thing I want to make is a WiFi-enabled clock. basically that's just my 4725 board with SDIO wifi card connected and in a good case10:25
whitequarkthe problem lies with the (hey, now I will mess up all the terms) fastening of the board on the case10:26
whitequarkit should be in a shape of a triangular prism, lying on a rectangular side10:26
whitequarkon the other rectangular side there will be a hole for the lcd10:26
whitequarkand some for buttons10:27
whitequarkI think that I may order the case itself in two parts: one would be two rectangular and two triangular sides welded together, and it will have two mounting tabs10:28
whitequarkand the other will be a single rectangular part with mounting holes matching those tabs10:28
whitequarkthe problems are: 1) as you've seen, the board has no mounting holes (and anyway, I don't want to add any screws on the front panel at all)10:29
whitequarkand 2) I'm not aware of a sane way to insert a protective plastic panel in front of LCD10:29
whitequarkdo you have any ideas?10:30
vladkorotnevhello everyone11:27
vladkorotnevis there a way to set OpenWRT encoding to KOI8-R?11:27
whitequarkvladkorotnev: try export LANG=ru_RU.KOI8-R11:28
vladkorotnevwhitequark: already tried this and fonts, didn't help11:28
whitequarkvladkorotnev: well, why would you want that ancient stuff in first place?11:29
vladkorotnevI need to use an app that doesn't support UTF811:30
whitequarkwhich one? is that X or console?11:31
vladkorotnevwhitequark: console11:32
whitequarkso, you are trying to make it work correctly with ben's console on framebuffer, right?11:35
vladkorotnevwhitequark: yup11:35
vladkorotnevluit doesn't help11:35
whitequarktry this11:36
vladkorotnevwhitequark: almost! blank chars instead of gibberish 11:38
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: (2D cad) many people like qcad. i hate it. so i use fped for really simple things. if fped can't do it, i write a script. (e.g, to generate toolpaths, which is something fped doesn't know how to do)11:38
whitequarkwpwrak: fped is for footprints, right? and I need to make a 2d contour for laser cutting11:40
whitequarkdo you know anything on this field?11:40
wpwrakwhitequark: make three layers: 1) bottom, with 2-4 holes for screws. 2) top, with 2-3 holes for screws, transparent. 3) frame, with 2-3 holes for screws and a bit opening in the middle the size of the PCB. layer 3 has to have the thickness of the pcb (plus some tolerance)11:41
wpwrakwhitequark: then put L1 + L3, align them, put the PCB inside and glue it in (glue, silicone, tape, whatever), then put L2 on top and put in the screws11:42
wpwrakwhitequark: fped is for footprints but can also do some basic geometry. not as much as qcad, but it does it conveniently and parametric. has no toolpath generation, though.11:43
whitequarkwpwrak: thanks for a great idea, I'll think about it. there may be some problems with thickness of 3rd layer. through11:43
whitequarkwpwrak: (fped) can it save DWG's?11:44
wpwrakwhitequark: so when i need a toolpath, i write a perl script that prints X/Y coordinates. then i verify with gnuplot. WYSIWYG is for girls ;-)11:44
wpwrakwhitequark: (L3) if you can't find or can't machine a thick enough sheet, use multiple thin ones.11:45
whitequarkwpwrak: yeah, just got the same idea11:45
wpwrak(fped, DWG) no, just postscript, kicad, and its own format. you could probably use kicad to generate DXF from it, though.11:46
DocScrutinizerwho's sourcing for Qi?11:46
whitequarkwpwrak: just installed it. version 0.0 and the rich interface are promising :)11:47
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: the things sharism makes ? that would be mainly adam11:48
DocScrutinizerI dunno who's sharism11:48
DocScrutinizerjust asking who's the best man to find out e.g about OMAP411:49
DocScrutinizerwhen it comes to production, sourcability, etc11:49
DocScrutinizeralways thought that's wolfgang11:50
wpwrak(sharism = the company that gets manufactured bens and manufactures mm1s (and sells both to customers and distributors))11:51
DocScrutinizeraaah, so who or what is Qi-HW then?11:52
wpwrak(omap4) hmm. wolfgang may some things about sourcing those chips. probably no details, though11:52
wpwrakqi-hw is the community effort of which sharism is a part11:53
DocScrutinizersure, as we never talked to TI so far afaik11:53
DocScrutinizerthanks, now things get clearer11:53
wpwrak(talk to ti) yeah. as wolfgang describes it, you probably need a direct line to TI anyway, if you want a realistic chance to get the chip even out of reset ;-)11:53
DocScrutinizerI'll copy that to my best quotes11:54
DocScrutinizerfor now it seems more like you need a direct line to dinno whom, God?, to get an OMAP411:55
DocScrutinizerwonder where panda get theirs from11:56
wpwrakgood luck with the sourcing then ;-)11:56
DocScrutinizerdo we know anybody at beagle/panda?11:56
wpwrakmaybe ping goldendelicious if they have any contacts ? or at least war stories to share :)11:59
DocScrutinizerwell, for now I'm just collecting options and trying to tell apart the existing stuff from vaporware, so we can do some educated decision about the preferable architecture for meegophone11:59
DocScrutinizerI already have that on my todo list - thanks nevertheless12:00
whitequarkso, are you doing an open phone?12:00
DocScrutinizeras long as this laterego guy doesn't come up with some names and stuff, the project itself hasn't left the vaporware status in my book ;-)12:01
DocScrutinizerwhitequark: we're planning to do so, according to this guy12:01
wpwrakwhitequark: i guess he's been plotting the defect rate vs. time of his N900 and got worried that it may disintegrate before apple and android are both dead :)12:01
wpwrakwhitequark: well, with apple and samsung at other's throat, things may move a little faster on that front. i wouln't expect samsung to do anything overly rash, but apple's another story.12:02
wpwrakwhitequark: also, apple has already hat its near-death experience. maybe they liked it ;-)12:03
DocScrutinizerI need facts though. When I say "ok, send me some pandaboard for evaluation, they're cheap but I'm not sponsoring this enterprise" - well, we'll see what's happening12:03
whitequarkwpwrak: I never heard about apple near-death experience. can you send a link?12:04
DocScrutinizerhah, wasn't that when Jobs resurrected?12:04
wpwrakwhitequark: oh, i'm sure you remember. before they brought jobs back, they weren't doing so well.12:05
DocScrutinizerstill pondering coffee or nap12:05
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: how many hours of uptime now ?12:05
whitequarkwpwrak: ah yes. was that in 90's? just to clarify, I was born in 1993 :)12:06
whitequarkso I doubt I can remember that :)12:06
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: hmm. i guess we'll know when nature has solved that problem when your head rolls on the Enter key ;-)12:07
DocScrutinizertested it, nothing happens :-P12:07
DocScrutinizerIRC doesn't like empty lines12:07
wpwrakwhitequark: hmm. childhood memories perhaps ;-) i'd google it up if i dared to move my mouse (it's recharging. so it'll be chat-only for me for a while)12:08
DocScrutinizerbut, as you never know what can happen:12:08
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430    12:08
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: while rolling towards the Enter key, your head will reach other keys .. ;-)12:08
DocScrutinizeryeah that works12:09
DocScrutinizernot easy though12:09
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: and you'll roll a lot as your subconsciousness relives the fiery awakening that makes you afraid of sleeping now :)12:10
whitequarkwpwrak: according to wiki, that has happened in 1997. I barely remember that time, and anyway I hadn't even touched my first PC :)12:11
DocScrutinizeractually I need to find a replacement switch for my mouse, this drives me mad12:11
DocScrutinizerthis thing12:11
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: are you an elephant ? :)12:11
DocScrutinizerno, my mouse is a tick12:12
wpwrakwhitequark: ah yes, a bit early then12:13
DocScrutinizerfirggin Logi MX Revolution (some 80¬) and cheap chinese switches that break and drive you nuts after 3 years12:13
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: you got what you asked for. or don't you find this behaviour revolting ? :)12:14
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: iirc they're sending replacements for free or something like that12:14
DocScrutinizerreplacement switches? or new mause? :-)12:31
whitequarki heard about new mouse12:38
wpwraklifetime warranty ? that could be dangerous in places where electronics are expensive but killers are cheap12:52
Jay7vladkorotnev: check screen -u too for your application13:16
Jay7screen have some way to do with non-utf-8 apps13:17
vladkorotnevJay7: fbterm solved my problems ;)13:17
Jay7ah, ok then13:17
Jay7DocScrutinizer: I've changed lot of switches in old MS mouse13:18
Jay7may be good idea to replace mechanical switches with something other.. 13:19
whitequarkJay7: capacitive sensors? optical sensors? put a webcam inside and capture the shadow of fingers?13:20
Jay7whitequark: btw, about latest13:20
Jay7I have Genius mouse with 'optowheel'13:20
Jay7it's optical sensor instead of wheel :)13:20
Jay7a bit crazy but after disabling horizontal scrolling in X it started to be useful again :)13:21
Jay7easiest way to replace mechanical switch with reed switch13:22
Jay7it even will do 'clicking' :)13:22
whitequarkJay7: another idea is to capture electromyogram (is it called so?..)14:02
whitequarkyou just think about clicking -- and voila -- it's already been done!14:02
Jay7we should implement this into Ya NN :)14:03
whitequarkyet another?14:03
Jay7after-Ben :)14:03
Jay7it was reffered so some times14:03
whitequarksounds interesting14:03
whitequarkcan you tell me a few facts?14:03
Jay7not sure about history.. may be just next 'letter' in alphabet :)14:04
Jay7whitequark: it's just bunch of ideas, nothing real14:04
whitequarkI hope it will be more interesting than current NN :)14:06
Jay7we all hope so :)14:06
wolfspraulviric: did you by any chance find the nanonixos screenshot we talked about yesterday?14:29
wolfspraulthe 06-01 news are slowly shaping up... http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-06-0114:29
wolfspraulnext I need to collect some nice pics from Werner's VGA hack14:29
wolfsprauland then mention azonenberg's 4004 DIY project in some intelligent way14:29
wolfsprauland then maybe ben-wpan production, ideally if tuxbrain could update us a little as well :-)14:30
wolfspraulthe reorder the whole thing a little, it's somewhat unreadable right now (too much)14:30
viricI forgot.14:32
viricHow should I make a screenshot, btw?14:32
wolfspraulhe, good question14:37
wolfspraullet's ask the wiki :-)14:37
wolfspraulI did it once or twice only, and forgot14:37
wolfspraulin typical free software style, there are many ways...14:37
vladkorotnevto make a screenshot, just use fbgrab over ssh :P14:37
wolfspraulyes, I just wanted to ask whether you have fbgrab14:38
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: who? me or viric?14:39
wolfspraulno viric14:53
wolfspraulif he has fbgrab he can try that14:54
vladkorotnevis libbz2 available for Ben NN?14:54
whitequarkTwo types have compatible type if their types are the same.  ANSI C Standard,
qi-bot[commit] kyak: golded: Fidonet Mail Reader/Editor. http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/b710d6b15:13
Fusinhi qiots15:16
Fusinhi vladko va bene?15:24
vladkorotnevFusin: wut? :P15:29
Fusinva bene sei italiano and is asking if all runs well @ your side (wasup?) :D15:31
Fusinva bene = goin well15:31
vladkorotnevFusin: yes, everything's good :P15:34
Fusinhere too, except to hot15:34
Fusinwe had 33°C here today15:34
DocScrutinizerJay7: reed switch, good approach. :-) thanks15:40
lunavorax_frizzlHi all15:40
lunavorax_frizzlI got the name for the counter-raspbery-pi project15:41
lunavorax_frizzl"ZX NanoNote"15:41
lunavorax_frizzlOh yeah15:41
Fusinlunavorax_frizzl: I know ZX81, but ZX NanoNote??? :-D15:42
Fusinwb Jay7 15:49
vladkorotnevcould please anyone with the OpenWRT toolchain build me this --> https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/packages/libs/bzip2 <-- for the Ben?15:54
lunavorax_frizzlFusin, ;)16:05
lunavorax_frizzlFusin, I suggested once the making of a ZX Spectrum-like NanoNote as a better alternative to the Raspbery Pi for childrens to learn computing16:06
FusinWell, a NanoNote with a good BASIC-Interpreter would be a good tool for Kids16:06
FusinThe BASIC does not need to be full fledged like Virtual-Basic. Any GW-Basic interpreter would do16:08
Fusinonly needs basic Graphics and Sound support (for Games etc) :D16:08
lunavorax_frizzlFusin, a Nanonote with a good documentation and exemple for kids will be fine, whatever the language. They just need a proper doc and exemples (and the tools pre-installed of course)16:10
FusinI'm with you :D16:10
lunavorax_frizzlNow we need money16:10
lunavorax_frizzlThe sad part16:10
FusinCan't we print our own??16:10
wpwrakhmm. my clock measurement with a guaranteed maximum interval between extremal measurements seems to live up to its promise. min-to-max 0.7 ppm with a requested 1 ppm interval, so far. alas, that takes it about half an hour to measure. not too great for production.16:44
whitequarkkyak: golded, oh. isn't fido dead?16:49
vladkorotnevwhitequark: lol, it isnt16:51
whitequarkwpwrak: I remember that you've posted a link to Qi site where there was some pictures of a 8-layer pcb took apart with sandpaper, can you link it again?16:52
wpwrakwhitequark: that was wolfgang16:52
whitequarkbut still, do you remember the link?16:54
wolfspraulwhitequark: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Sciphone_Dream_G216:55
whitequarkthanks a lot16:55
wolfspraulwpwrak: getting there :-) http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Community_news_2011-06-0116:56
wolfspraulmy todo list now: ben-wpan production, azonenberg 4004 diy, reorder for better flow, maybe get a screenshot from viric :-)16:56
wolfspraulthen there may still be other things I overlooked or that could be mentioned, but I'm getting tired16:56
wolfspraul2 months is too long16:56
wpwrakyou have one more day anyway :)16:58
wolfspraulyes sure16:59
wolfspraulwhat do you think so far?16:59
whitequarkjust found the 8:10 vga thing. it is really weird. is that done purely in software via bitbanging?16:59
wolfspraulyour stuff is excellent as always, vga & so much on ben-wpan...16:59
wolfspraulhow does this work?16:59
wpwrak"Adam Wang reported on the latest Milkymist One RC3 production status". maybe add an executive summary ?17:00
wolfspraulyes, it works :-)17:00
wolfspraul2 minutes, hmm17:00
wolfspraulwell, the link points to the mail, and it's hard to summarize17:00
wolfspraulso many things moving, so many details17:00
wpwrakwolfspraul: (hard to summarize) indeed ;-)17:00
wolfspraulexecutive summary is simple: DELAY17:00
wolfspraulwe are freaking behind schedule, a lot17:01
wolfspraulso rc3 cannot sell, ben-wpan still slow as well17:01
wpwraksomething like "several minor delays, ETA 8/11" ? 17:01
wolfsprauldo you want me to add that executive summary :-)17:01
wpwrakwell, everybody has delays :)17:01
wolfspraulyou know I want to free the valuable times of the executives for drinks and other important meetings17:02
wolfspraulso just "delay"17:02
wolfspraulcome back later, nothing to see...17:02
wpwrakah, tuxbrain contacted me just a few minutes ago. the fab is looking for some cad file (which they should have :) and they plan to smt this week17:02
wolfsprauloh, great!17:02
wpwrakalso "Two threads on the mailing list discussed plans about adding a MMU to the Milkymist SoC." wants a summary17:03
wolfspraulagreed, but there is none17:03
wpwrakthis one is an excellent example for a good entry: "Xiangfu Liu demonstrated Open Sound Control ("OSC") with his Milkymist One. OSC is another promising way to control Milkymist One, with many nice clients easily available for popular smartphones and tablets."17:04
wolfspraulquite a lot of planning in those threads, I'm not sure anybody is doing anything now - they left that open :-)17:04
wpwrak"what happened ? what does it mean ? what does it mean for me ?"17:04
wpwrak(mmu) yeah, that was the impression i got17:04
wolfspraulif you know OSC, now you know that m1 supports osc17:04
wolfspraulthat's the point of that entry17:04
wpwrakbut there seems to be some narrowing down on what's feasible and what not17:04
wolfsprauldo you know osc?17:05
wolfspraulI don't17:05
wpwraknyet :)17:05
wolfspraulso I can only read what it says in wikipedia, seems to be a 'modern midi'17:05
wolfspraulI guess first of all it's a protocol to send simple messages back and forth17:05
wolfsprauljust click on that video, then it's clear :-)17:05
wolfspraulalthough ironically sound is missing in that video, argh17:05
wpwrak(mm1 sold out) do you know if anyone else has stock ? so that you can divert prospective buyers there ?17:06
wolfspraulat least it makes you focus on the OSC :-)17:06
wolfspraulnot sure, of course we can mention that17:06
wpwrakalso, the news entry ought to say something about when more will be coming. it reads almost like saying "EOL"17:06
wolfspraulthe little feedback I get seems to indicate that it may be very low or out of stock everywhere17:06
wolfspraulmaybe tuxbrain still has 117:06
wpwrakokay, single-bit quantities probably aren't worth mentioning :)17:07
Fusin(aka good night folks)17:07
wolfspraulme too, reading the backlog tomorrow...17:08
wpwrak(4tH) maybe put "FORTH" or a link explaining what it is somewhere ?17:09
wolfspraulI think the interesting thing about OSC is (and I'm guessing a bit), that you can basically have one of many Android or iphone/ipad clients, and then control m1 from there17:09
wolfspraulit's easy to hook a patch into osc input (again guessing)17:09
wolfspraulso basically with osc, we can become an iphone/ipad accessory - isn't that great?17:09
wpwrak(sound track made by kaossilator) maybe use "with" ? it's an instrument, although admittedly one that doesn't require a lot of skills for something as simple as this17:10
wolfspraulyou need to connect the m1 ethernet to a router though, and from your phone with wifi to the m117:10
wpwrak(osc) whoa. heavy setup.17:10
wolfspraulchanged [with]17:10
wolfspraulnot really17:10
wolfspraulthink of someone who already has an android phone17:11
wolfspraulhow can he control m1 right now?17:11
wolfspraulremote control?17:11
wolfspraulbut why not with your phone, if you can download a free osc client with a few clicks17:11
wpwrakwhitequark: it's not entirely sw. well, an earlier version was. now it uses the MMC controller to pump out the pixel data. line timing is still controlled by software. that's a lot more efficient than 100% sw.17:12
wolfspraulI'm not saying it's all OSC now, but there are OSC fanboys, and the entry is for those that we say ok, m1 supports osc. if you have an osc client, you can use it to control m1.17:12
wolfspraulthere is a linux command-client oscsend utility, I think17:12
wolfspraulcommand-line (getting sleepy)17:12
wpwrak(osc) no, osc is good. it's just a bit of a messy setup. well, you could probably plug a WLAN stick into the MM1. (does rtems have a wifi stack and drivers ?)17:13
whitequarkwpwrak: that's what I have expected. I've seen some interesting implementations on AVR using its SPI shift register17:13
wolfspraulno way, not supported now and very hard17:13
wolfspraulI stay realistic. if you want osc, you have to network your m1 over ethernet.17:13
wolfspraulotherwise your shiny phone cannot reach m117:13
wolfspraulosc or not17:13
wolfspraulbut the ethernet osc works today (see the video)17:14
wolfspraulthat's the news17:14
wpwrak(no wifi) i was afraid it would be so. well, if someone was really into it and ported over the whole stuff from linux ... but yes, it's hard. barely works on linux itself.17:14
wpwrak(slashdot coverage) also made it to hackaday and dangerousprototypes. nicer feedback there.17:15
wpwrak(first impression of news) looks great !17:15
wpwrakdo you want to mention jane's keyboard hack ? something frmo leftfield17:17
wolfspraulsure, I'm just still in my todo17:17
wolfspraul4004 diy, ben-wpan production17:17
wolfspraultwo screenshots missing, nanonixos and debian wheezy17:18
wolfspraulmark (debian wheezy) did not reply, I don't want to stalk him17:18
wpwrakfor ben-wpan production, this one is coming: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/17:18
wolfspraulnanonixos we see17:18
wpwrakneeds one more item, then it's good to go17:18
wolfspraultuxbrain uploaded some pcb pics a while ago (of ben-wpan)17:18
wolfspraulI have more work in the news17:18
wpwrakah yes, they're in the 2 months interval too ;-)17:18
wolfspraulI definitely want to mention the 4004 diy project17:19
wpwrakthe smt fab is funny. they always start sending mails around 6 pm ;-)17:19
wolfspraulbut I need to get the facts straight, need to read the #milkymist backlog carefully first17:19
wolfspraulsomehow I think he buys a 4'' wafer for 35usd, and the rest is all diy toasters (exaggerating), and the end goal is to make 4004 processors17:20
wolfspraullike I said, I need to make this a little more solid :-)17:20
wolfsprauland maybe I shouldn't skip over everything saying "4004 diy", but instead talk about the next step, the one thereafter17:21
wpwrakthe 4004 still seems to be quite at the horizon17:21
wolfspraulbut that's even harder to get right then17:21
wolfspraulyes sure, I know17:21
wolfspraulbut I can introduce the project like that, maybe17:21
wpwrakfor now, he seems to struggle with increasing the field-of-view. the microscope only gives him a very narrow area to work in.17:21
wolfspraullike I said, need to read first, but I want to mention it in some way17:21
wolfsprauloh I can imagine17:22
rjeffriesirx log is not reachable by me, for now17:23
wolfsprauland I want to document the process, not just the result. but for that I need to understand more.17:23
wolfspraulthat's for tomorrow...17:23
wpwrakwish the mm1 video in video ha some colors in it ...17:23
wolfspraulwe probably need a vga grabber17:24
wolfspraulshowing videos of the end result will be important in marketing, and we have nothing17:24
wolfspraulthe indirect recorded ones we have are of horrible quality17:24
wolfsprauland I doubt we will get onboard real-time encoding done anytime soon (theora or webm)17:24
wolfspraulso either vga grabber, or sebastien implements tv-out (over the vga connector), that's also relatively easy to record I think17:25
wpwrakif there's enough bw, just stream out raw dumps and encode off-line ?17:25
wolfspraulwe'll get there :-)17:25
wolfspraulall work probably, this is not (yet) a general purpose computing platform17:26
whitequarkwolfspraul: what's that semiconductor thingy on the pic? a delay line?17:26
wolfsprauldon't ask me17:26
wpwrakheh, you just dumped all my ubb-vga pics ;-))17:26
wolfspraulI'm trying to say something about it that is not completely stupid.17:26
wolfspraulyes but I think they are nice17:27
wolfspraulfirst I though of picking some, then I liked the idea of putting them all in a gallery uncommented17:27
wolfspraulfirst they were chronologically (like they appeard in your mails), then I reordered a bit so that you can see the process, the work, back and forth, improvements, etc.17:27
wolfspraulall the way to the end result17:28
wpwrakshould have one with the 16 color board. the ones you have are all with the first board, 8 colors and no MMC-capable17:29
wolfspraulmaybe I overlooked some still17:29
wolfspraulpossible - you sent so many mails17:29
wpwrakif you picked them from the mails, maybe link to the mail ? that way, they can work as real teasers ?17:30
wolfspraulalready there17:30
wolfspraulthe whole list of mails17:30
wolfspraulnot sure about another link from each picture, maybe17:31
wolfspraulI can try tomorrow whether I find some overlooked pics or mails17:31
wolfspraulthe mail archiver is also not perfect, sometimes mails disappear from the archives17:31
wolfspraulbuggy, and unmaintained for 10+ years17:31
wpwrakhere are some of the latest board (high resolution): http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/ubb-vga-pub-plugged.jpg17:31
whitequarkthe hedgehog!17:32
wpwrakthe best material (in terms of publication quality) is here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/web/17:32
wolfspraulok will look at that tomorrow17:32
wolfspraulhave to go sleep now, n817:33
wolfspraulthanks for the feedback!17:33
wpwrak(whole lot of mails) oh dear ;-)17:33
wolfspraulthere may be more, I think I only looked at the thread starters17:33
wolfspraulanyway, more polish tomorrow...17:34
kyakwhitequark: i think FIDO is more dead than alive, but golded was ported mostly for vladkorotnev, he seems to be excited about FIDO and actually using it :)17:54
wpwrakFIFO.userbase = 1 ;-)17:57
SaintCould anyone help me out with the specs of a gaming desktop?18:10
whitequarkSaint: try asking at #hardware, this is not the channel you are looking for18:17
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log/openwrt-xburst.trunk-05292011-1533/18:52
vladkorotnevhello everyone, how do I recover my 1.5gb ubifs partition? When I try to mount it it says recovery needed19:39
whitequarkafaik it should do that automatically19:42
whitequarkat least there is no fsck.ubifs or such. in my experience, it does all the recovery when mounting19:43
vladkorotnevit doesn't :(19:43
whitequarkcan you post dmesg somewhere?19:44
vladkorotnevwhitequark: here it is http://pastie.org/199470519:45
wpwrakhmm, is anyone here good with math/statistics ? specifically, linear regression with least-square fitting ?19:46
whitequarkvladkorotnev: this (http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/27367/) suggests that it may be a bug in UBI, and manual cleaning of internal structure is needed, due to UBI unable to restore the structure itself19:47
vladkorotnevwpwrak: wolframalpha.com maybe?19:47
whitequarkvladkorotnev: I don't think that there is easy way to recover your partition. I may be wrong through.19:47
wpwrakvladkorotnev: ;-)) naw, i already found GSL :) what i need is an idea for how to properly weight my samples19:47
vladkorotnevwhitequark: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU19:48
wpwrakwhitequark: there is ! it's called "restore the latest backup" (-:C19:48
vladkorotnevwhitequark: however, not that much data, all from my computer :P19:48
vladkorotnevno backups :(19:48
whitequarkwpwrak: every time there is one man who's sarcastic about someone's backups :))19:48
whitequarkvladkorotnev: what's your kernel version? I've experienced some UBI bugs in the past19:49
vladkorotnevwhitequark: idk what happened to me today. Debian boot loader crashed. Virtualbox doesn't run. UBI partition doesn't mount. fu-k!19:50
vladkorotnevwhitequark: Linux BenNanoNote #1 PREEMPT Wed May 25 05:49:30 CEST 2011 mips GNU/Linux this?19:50
whitequarkahhh 2.6.3219:50
whitequarkthat's the point.19:51
whitequarkthere is a lot of nasty UBI bugs in .3219:51
vladkorotnevwhitequark: so&?19:51
whitequarkupgrade to at least .35, or better to .38-.3919:51
vladkorotnevwhitequark: how? and will it be ok?19:52
whitequarkwe've did some work of porting all the jz47xx changes to recent kernels with Lars19:52
whitequarkmy tree should work on Ben, and it's .3919:52
whitequarkand yes, UBI will work fine, it was tested by me and tens of russian developers19:52
whitequarkhere it is: http://git.whitequark.org/xz0032-linux.git/log/?h=xz0032-2.6.39-dev19:53
vladkorotnevwhitequark: i am not that professional, i don't know how to upgrade kernel. and I meant will it mount after the upgrade, not will it work19:53
vladkorotnevplus, it's 2:03 AM here19:53
whitequarkah yes. no, it probably won't mount, but it won't also fail in the future19:54
whitequarkyou can ask someone here with Ben to compile the kernel probably19:54
whitequarkmaybe there is ever an 'officially' approoved version of recent kernels19:54
vladkorotnevwhitequark: i'm on the 05/24/11 image if that matters19:55
whitequarkvladkorotnev: I don't have Ben and I haven't worked with Qi Hardware images/packages. it's just my device having the processor of same family with Ben, and so I am here19:56
whitequarkbut I still have worked with ubi nevertheless19:56
vladkorotnevok, bye everyone. have to wake up at 10:56 am tomorrow. then I think I will reformat the partition...19:57
dvdkwpwrak: just trying to write a freashmeat.net release announcement for the 05-28 firmware and wondering about how to call the avrdude chip-programming capabilities of nanonote.21:07
dvdkwpwrak: you think it's correct to call it "repository now includes a version of avrdude that turns the NanoNote into a high-speed chip-programmer"21:07
dvdks/"re/"[..] re/21:08
wpwrakdvdk: it's actually relatively slow (at least it feels like that ;-)21:14
dvdkwpwrak: thought it should be at least faster than a parallel port programmer :)21:15
dvdkso you thiink i should strip the 'high-speed'21:15
wpwrakdvdk: maybe "that turns NanoNote + UBB into a chip programmer" ? then you have about the same number of attributes21:15
wpwraki don't really know how it compares speed-wise with others. i had to slow things down a bit to make it work, so i suspect it's not the fastest one around. but maybe the others don't work with default settings either ...21:16
whitequarkhm, this sounds like a real use case for NN, interesting21:19
dvdkwpwrak: what about 'Optional software installable from the repository includes a version of avrdude that turns the NanoNote into a generic chip-programmer (the "UBB" adapter-board for accessing the I/O pins is available from Tuxbrain and other distributors).'21:23
dvdkit's a freshmeat announcement for 'nanonote firmware' so we ought to explain what a UBB is21:24
wpwrakdvdk: it's only for AVR, not "generic". of course, you could make programmers for other chips as well. e.g., the f32xbase project has a ben-based one for C8051F3xx chips21:24
dvdk'into a AVR chip-programmer'?21:25
wpwrakdvdk: i would also drop the "optional". that often means "at extra cost" :-)21:25
wpwrakyeah, sounds good21:25
dvdks/optional/  yeah and the more concise the better21:26
wpwrakor maybe "into a programmer for AVR chips"21:26
dvdkeven better21:26
wpwrakhehe, ~0.1 ppm accuracy. soon i'll be ready to measure the gravitation of passing neutrinos ;-)21:40
dvdkwpwrak: everybody measures neutrinus.  try measure WIMPS :)21:41
dvdks/neutrinu/neutrino  s/WIMPS/WIMPs21:41
dvdktime for bed21:41
wpwrakhmm yes. maybe i'll even stuble upon some even darker matter :)21:41
whitequarkwpwrak: 0.1 ppm of what?21:42
dvdk"The latest firmware features WIMPsens that uses the Ben's microphone to sample the density of dark matter"21:42
dvdkgotta go21:43
wpwrakwhitequark: the frequency of the atusb crystal oscillator21:43
wpwrakdvdk: ;-))21:43
wpwrakwhitequark: in relation to an NTP-disciplined host clock21:44
whitequarkwpwrak: is NTP that good, really?21:44
wpwrakwhitequark: kinda hard to tell without a nuclear clock reference ;-)21:44
wpwrakwhitequark: what i'm interested in is relative time. so all i need is the drift compensation. i don't care about the time offset.21:45
whitequarkthen, what shall it do with NTP? NTP is all about network synchronization, isn't it?21:46
wpwrakNTP also corrects drift. PCs usually have lousy crystals. ~+/-100 ppm tolerance.21:47
whitequarkah. yes.21:49
whitequarkokay, I'm going to bed21:49
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: only for system clock, RTC usually is way better22:33
wpwrakmaybe. but there the resolution is horrible. and synchronizing to an edge may be tricky.22:36
wpwrak(i.e., i'm too lazy to figure out that one as well ;-)22:37
Action: DocScrutinizer notices he missed 90% of relevant backscroll22:39
DocScrutinizermaybe time for a nice walk22:39
DocScrutinizerit starts to get funy when the uptime shows ???22:40
DocScrutinizerstill no head on <enter>22:40
wpwrakwell, you'll crash for some 12+ hours :)22:41
DocScrutinizerbut a huge milk supply by now :-D22:41
DocScrutinizerfor *lots* of 0xc0ffee22:42
DocScrutinizerwpwrak: usualy not22:43
DocScrutinizeras mentioned before: sleep is overrated22:43
wpwrakit has its uses :)22:43
DocScrutinizera crime to sleep on such a nice night22:43
Action: DocScrutinizer heads out for a walk in the dark22:44
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/fw/: added free-running 48 bit 8 MHz counter for clock measurements http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8c5727723:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal.c (do_atben, main): moved board-specific code to separate function http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/5a6aae523:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal: moved atben-specific code to atben.c http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bdca20423:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atrf-xtal: added atusb support (via ATUSB_TIMER) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/61e656e23:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac: updated ATUSB application firmware URL for new version http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9515d9623:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: added clock frequency test for atusb and updated documentation http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c8e942f23:23
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/analysis.hmac: added atrf-xtal measurement on atusb; clarifictions http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8c25bc223:23
wpwrakanyone care to proof-read what should hopefully be the final version (as far as this ben-wpan SMT run is concerned) ? http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/prod/index.html23:24
--- Tue May 31 201100:00

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