#qi-hardware IRC log for Friday, 2011-05-27

qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/flash.html: use local copy of atusb-programming.jpg; language cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/889757e00:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/Makefile: added upload to downloads.qi-hardware.com http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/b9343a900:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/analysis.html: clarified enabling of 1.8 V rails; language cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/141002700:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/test.html: added a decription of the tests http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f5c46de00:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/Makefile (DL, atusb-programming.jpg, atrf-path.png): shorten URLs http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/4aa05f200:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: added marked-up layout to indicate CLKM/CLK test points http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/b83030200:58
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: added voltage measurement points on layout http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/cb855b200:58
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, nice list: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Comparison_of_hardware_books05:46
wpwrakwolfspraul: i've never seen anyone mention it. maybe you should re-pimp it sometime :)05:47
qi-bot[commit] kyak: uboot-xburst: don't install empty dir http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/064f28506:26
qi-bot[commit] kyak: qstardict: flite as default text-to-speech engine http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/305112606:40
kyakxiangfu: hi! did you have a look at that usbboot problem: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-March/007537.html ? I have to flash bootloader with older usbboot every tim -\ btw, the same problem also exists for other users07:27
whitequarkkyak: have you tried jzboot?07:31
kyakwhitequark: nope07:32
kyakit's not packaged, it's not command-line compatible with usbboot (would require changing reflash_ben.sh), it doesn't have config for Ben07:34
kyaktoo much work to do :)07:34
kyakusbboot is already working, just has some strage regression07:34
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: completed voltage measurement sections http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/f01c31907:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: atusb/: swapped C10 and C13 in schematics, to match layout http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8a436b807:35
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/Makefile: moved %-front.png up to give priority over atben-%.png http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e88d66e07:35
wpwrak(jzboot) that code snippet in the patch posted recently on the list looks rather scary. did this things originate from some obfuscated C contest ? ;-)07:37
xiangfukyak, working on that now. (so many things :)07:37
kyakwpwrak: beware, the author is here :)07:37
kyakxiangfu: i'm not pushing, just good to know it's not forgotten :)07:38
whitequarkwpwrak: what snippet? I didn't see it :)07:38
whitequarkI probably should finally pack it the proper way07:38
wpwrakkyak: even better ;-)07:39
kyakwhitequark: that would be great.. plus, reading the mailing list :)07:39
kyakwhitequark: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2011-May/008046.html that would be it07:40
wpwrakwhitequark: the patch by Ignacio Garcia Perez. CFGOPT and NOPT, which he cleaned up a bit, look like excellent candidates for helper functions (i.e., just put the invocation into a macro, leave the rest in the function). macros are hard to read.07:40
whitequarkah yes, i've subscribed07:43
whitequarkthere is an interesting improvement, now it is possible to load linux kernel ELF (the vmlinux) directly, passing the initrd and command line to jzboot07:44
whitequarklike grub07:44
xiangfukyak, you are using "xburst-tools_201002"? not 201012?07:45
kyakxiangfu: the "old" one i'm referring to is xburst-tools_0.0+201002-1_i386.bin.tar.bz207:47
xiangfukyak. ok. got it07:48
kyakso far, i have usbboot and usbboot_old in my path.. I changed reflash_ben.sh to flash bootloader with usbboot_old. However, usbboot_old checks if i'm root and exits if i'm not :) So i have to run reflash_ben.sh as root anyway07:50
xiangfukyak, you can usbboot-201002 usbboot-201103, then one symlink :), no needs change reflash_ben.sh07:52
kyakxiangfu: i like the "reset" command in latest usbboot07:53
kyakit's not avialable in usbboot-20100207:53
xiangfukyak, that is the only one I changed. 07:53
xiangfu:)07:56
kyakxiangfu: can you reproduce this problem?07:56
xiangfukyak, doing that now.07:57
xiangfukyak, I know this bug before. it's hard to catch. when you reflash twice, the error will gone.08:05
kyakhm..08:05
kyaki'll try flashing twice next time08:05
qi-bot[commit] Sergey Gridassov: Added Linux loader. http://qi-hw.com/p/jzboot/c73957008:07
qi-bot[commit] Ignacio Garcia Perez: FIXED: values of CPUSPEED greater than 255 were misread because the value was directly read into handle->cfg.cpu_speed (uint8_t) before dividing it by the external crystal frequency, and overflow resulted. Now intermediate variable is used and only the final result of the division is placed in handle->cfg.cpu_speed. http://qi-hw.com/p/jzboot/1cfb14908:07
qi-bot[commit] Peter Zotov: Fix -v to be less ugly. http://qi-hw.com/p/jzboot/792376f08:07
qi-bot[commit] Peter Zotov: Update README to include jzboot building instructions. http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/a1652cf08:07
qi-bot[commit] Peter Zotov: Fix Debian package name in configure helper. http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/0b8605608:07
qi-bot[commit] Peter Zotov: Updated bundled jzboot. http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/89f8d6808:07
kyakusbboot_cmdset.o: In function `usbboot_load_kernel':08:10
kyak/home/bas/build/xburst-tools/jzboot/src/usbboot_cmdset.c:159: undefined reference to `load_elf'08:10
kyakwhitequark: --^08:10
kyak/home/bas/build/xburst-tools/jzboot/src/usbboot_cmdset.c:159: undefined reference to `load_elf'08:10
whitequarkkyak: hmm, it builds for me08:22
whitequarkvery strange08:22
whitequarkkyak: I've did a fresh clone, and it still builds08:23
whitequarkwhat's the revision of jzboot submodule?08:23
xiangfukyak, I think I have a solution now. ...08:32
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: nanonote: using 0xFF fill the bin file http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/43a866108:50
xiangfukyak, when the startpage is 0. there shouldn't have a 'check' 08:51
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: [debian] update the URL, add new depends for jzboot http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/d15b0fb08:54
kyakxiangfu: i'll test if it works now and let you know. Thanks!08:54
kyak$ git submodule 792376fcbe4d1ece13c64382d46e3473e48a6044 jzboot (remotes/origin/HEAD)08:55
kyakwhitequark: hope it helps...08:56
whitequarkkyak: mine rev is the same08:59
whitequarktry reconfiguring it, i.e. ./autogen.sh && ./configure08:59
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: usbboot: remove useless code http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/b8420d209:06
xiangfukyak, I will reply your email,(for future using, if other people have that problem :)09:07
xiangfukyak, email sent out.  I explain a little on that email.09:18
xiangfu(load_elf) ./autogen.sh && ./configure, fix that problem.09:19
qi-botThe build was successfull, see images here: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/compile-log//home/xiangfu/compile-log//openwrt-xburst.full_system-05262011-1222/09:29
xiangfuthe URL should fix in next build :)09:30
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: added HTML macro processor (hmac) and page-specific style http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/a99fbbf10:12
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: converted index.html to index.hmac http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2f6c22d10:12
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: converted analysis.html to analysis.hmac; language cleanup http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/9ab082410:12
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: converted setup.html, flash.html, and test.html to hmac http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/8a70d4b10:12
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/style.inc: fixed header formatting in Firefox http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/213e70310:12
kyakwhitequark: yep, autogen.sh + configure made it build11:34
mthwhitequark: I don't have an autogen.sh in jzboot11:45
mththe web view doesn't show one either: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/jzboot/source/tree/master/11:46
xiangfumth : http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/xburst-tools/source/tree/master/INSTALL#L1211:49
xiangfumth LINE: 12 ^11:49
xiangfuthe jzboot is a git-submodule in xburst-tools. 11:49
mthah, I thought it was a standalone tool11:50
mthit does work when I compile it from xburst-tools11:57
whitequarkmth: have you tested it on any hardware?12:20
mthxiangfu: building as part of xburst-tools works, thanks12:50
mthwhitequark: yes, with Dingoo A32012:50
mthI have a config file for that if you're interested12:50
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: usbboot: fix hand.fw_args.cpu_id have wrong value when there is no 'boot' in commands http://qi-hw.com/p/xburst-tools/1d7a2f313:13
xiangfukyak ^ this commit should fix the problem. just found the root cause.13:16
xiangfukyak, thanks for bring this issue up :D13:16
kyakxiangfu: heh, ok, good thing i haven't yet got home to test :)13:17
xiangfukyak, sure, take your time 13:17
wolfspraul"root cause found" - always sounds great to hear that! :-)13:30
kyakand even greater when it's not some person :)13:35
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add color ash shell, add the method to gmenu2x.sh as comment http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/e0831be13:41
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: gmenu2x: update to 20110527 commit http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/6a6b76313:44
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: gmenu2x: update to 20110527 commit http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/dca49da13:46
whitequarkmth: yeah, I'll add it to the repo14:02
Fusinhi qiotos ;)14:49
wpwrakquack14:50
Fusinoink ;)14:51
qi-bot[commit] kyak: ben-cyrillic: add display for letter "io" http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/53192fc15:57
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/style.inc: interleave the navigation bar and shrink font http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/49177eb16:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/style.inc: use sans serif font in the navigation bar http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/c0ec3f716:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/setup.hmac, prod/doc/analysis.hmac: improved section titles http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/21cc28916:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: give introductory text a separate intro section http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/be2e8b116:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/hmac.pl: updated copyright; cleaned up declaration of local variables http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/838b8e116:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/hmac.pl: allow self-referential macros (not general recursion) http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/2386f1f16:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/Makefile: added "spotless"; cleaned up generated/downloaded/orig logic http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/77a60a916:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: added bottom navigation bar http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/e4fc64916:24
qi-bot[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/doc/: make END macro generate the date and autor line; use current date http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/29ff18616:24
Fusin;)16:42
qi-bot[commit] kyak: Disable syslogd and klogd http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7e2285916:47
whitequarkqi-bot: why don't you reply when I PM you?17:19
whitequarkheh17:29
larscqi-bot: why don't you walk away?17:52
larschm, so no auto response on 'why don't you *'17:53
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: help18:03
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: status18:04
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: info18:04
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: owner18:04
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: author18:04
DocScrutinizerqi-bot: ?18:04
DocScrutinizerMEH!18:04
whitequarkDocScrutinizer: try !help18:32
DocScrutinizermeh, how am I supposed to know about ! at all?18:33
DocScrutinizerqi-bot doesn't reply to any of the standard means a bot is supposed to identify itself, it doesn't tell about its master, and /ns info qi-bot shows [Notice] -NickServ- Flags      : HideMail18:35
DocScrutinizeraccording to freenode standards it had to get kickbanned18:35
wpwrakDocScrutinizer: afaik, asimov's laws say nothing about identification :)18:36
DocScrutinizerthat's freenode's law however18:36
DocScrutinizerfreenode is rather clear about bots18:36
DocScrutinizerrule #1: there has to be an easy way to contact bot master, when bot misbehaves18:37
DocScrutinizers/when/in case/18:37
DocScrutinizerrule #0: bots mustn't join channels without allowance from chanop or chan owner (well that's not aplicable here I think)18:38
DocScrutinizerrule #2: if a bot misbehaves on e.g rule#0 and you can't raise the concern due to bot violating rule#1, kickban it before it does anything odd18:40
DocScrutinizeras I'm aware qi-bot is set up by chanowners, I'm just mentioning it here18:41
DocScrutinizerfreenode staff might think and act differently ;-)18:42
DocScrutinizerand freenode staff might take a look faster than you might think, just consider qi-bot having some minor issues with authentication at either freenode or nameserv. Some staff might notice, take a look, realize there's no hint about whom to contact about it, and BANg18:45
DocScrutinizereven kline18:45
whitequarkwpwrak: the 4th law "a robot should identify himself as an electronic creature" may have some sense :)18:53
wpwrakhmm, the justification for Lyuben Dilov's 4th law seems rather weak18:56
DocScrutinizerfound this while digging thru the shallows of internet for freenode policy about bots: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml - not exactly to the point but a rather instructive read I missed to reread for too long18:59
whitequarkwpwrak: who's Lyuben Dilov?19:07
whitequarkah, yes, that's exactly what I suggested for 4th law19:13
larscqi-bot: are you a robot?19:17
whitequarkthe interesting philosophical question: must a robot identify itself as a robot if it cannot recognize the question?19:18
whitequarki.e. it technically cannot identify itself "in all cases"...19:19
whitequarkor, thinking from the other side, the nick "qi-bot" may or may not already carry the message19:19
wpwrakwhitequark: perhaps it should just mutter "i'm a robot. i'm a robot. ..." all the time, just to err on the side of safety.19:19
wpwrakwhitequark: (nick) good point !19:20
whitequarkwpwrak: what if you didn't know English? its muttering then would be useless for you19:22
wpwrakthe law doesn't say that it has to be useful. hmm. perhaps it would be sufficient if the robot would just silently emit a radio message.19:24
whitequarkI suggest encoding it with different neutrino's19:24
wpwrakor modulate dark energy appropriately19:25
whitequarkif you'd place a small synchrotron inside, and change beam targets in a certain pattern, you will easily generate the signal19:25
whitequarkor you can go further19:25
wpwrakgravity waves. much easier. move a nano-scale object. even a very very very small mass has gravity.19:26
whitequarklet's represent the robot itself as a quantum system (of course it is). then we make it very cold, in which case it becomes a single system19:28
whitequarkgrr, I don't know enough fancy terms to explain that.19:28
wpwrakperhaps you're referring to a BEC ? not sure if this works for non-gaseous robots19:30
wpwrak(Bose–Einstein condensate)19:30
whitequarkwpwrak: probably not. I was talking about a state of several quantum particles (electrons are commonly used), in which case they share some common something, and altering an internal state of one also changes the state of others in a predictable way19:32
whitequarkin russian it is called ":20=B>20O 70F5?;5==>ABL", but my dictionary does not know that.19:32
whitequarkBEC surely has to do something with it, but it is different AFAIK19:33
larscin german it probably is: quanten verschraenkung19:34
xMffquantum entanglement ?19:34
wpwrakentanglement19:34
wpwrakyup19:34
whitequarkoh yes19:35
whitequarkI've just understood that in order to free MSC0 on my board I can solder off the NAND which shares the pins19:37
whitequarkcan ingenics boot from MSC1?19:37
whitequarkI'd like to use 4-bit MSC0 for an SDIO card19:37
larscyou can only use msc0 for booting19:39
wpwrakcan the 4720 boot from MMC at all ?19:40
larscno19:40
larsconly jz4750 and better19:40
larscs/better/later/19:40
whitequarklarsc: okay. then, can I connect two cards to MSC0? a brief look at PM suggests they can use different CS's19:41
whitequarkI'm talking about "supports up to 10 cards"19:41
larscyou'd need a mmc multiplexer for that i guess19:42
wpwrakah, you're talking about some other chip. i was already wondering where that MSC1 came from ;-)19:42
whitequarkwpwrak: mine device has jz4725B==jz4750L19:42
whitequark*my device19:42
whitequarklarsc: how do you think, will an SDIO WiFi card work in 1-bit mode?19:44
whitequarkwithout the other 3 lines at all19:44
larscfor sdio you need at least two lines19:45
larsci think19:45
larscone for data and one for interrupts19:45
whitequarkcrap.19:45
whitequarkcan't it work in polled mode?19:45
larscnot sure19:45
whitequarkI don't want to buy a $50 sdio card just to discover it is not supported at all19:46
larschm, the spec says "May be used Interrupt...."19:47
larscah, thats dat119:48
larscacording to this you even need dat2 http://www.interfacebus.com/Secure_Digital_IO_Card_Pinout.html19:49
whitequarkhmm, I have a plan!19:49
whitequarkI'm flashing u-boot and kernel on nand, then it boots, turns off nand, turns on MSC1, uses it as root, then uses msc0 as it wants19:50
larsccould work19:52
larscare all ADDR pins in use?19:52
larscA15 and A16 are the default pins for address and command latch, but you could easily use any other pins aswell19:54
larsci hope19:54
larscbut you also need FRE_ and FWE_ :/19:57
larschm, in their reference design, they also multiplex nand and mmc019:58
whitequarkADDR...19:58
whitequarkdo I need them at all? I'm satisfied with root just on mmc119:59
larsci thought you wanted to use msc1 for sdio?19:59
whitequarkif I could use msc1 for sdio, I won't muck with nand/msc0 then20:01
whitequarkI'd just boot from nand20:01
larscright20:01
whitequarkmsc1 is cut on 4725b, and only has 1 bit of interface => probably no sdio20:01
whitequarkbut sd storage works fine20:01
larscaccording to the jz4725b specs i have all four data lines are available20:02
whitequarkthen I may turn off NAND and use the pins for MSC020:02
larscD28-D3120:02
whitequarkwell, they are probably present on the die20:03
whitequarkbut there are no physical pins.20:03
whitequarkingenic specs are writtten in... a very special way20:03
larsccopy'n'paste style20:04
whitequarkyeah20:04
whitequarkI dumped three days searching that pins :/20:04
wpwrakcopy over a noisy channel, injecting errors :)20:04
larscso the best option is probably to put a bootloader on the nand, which turns the nand off and switch the pins to mmc mode20:05
whitequarkyeah, that's what I'll try20:05
whitequarkI think that it will be enough to add proper msc0 initialization to linux20:05
whitequarkthe nand appears to be off (i.e. cs is high) when it is not used (read/written)20:06
whitequarkI probably should still clear NFCSR, through20:06
whitequarkah yes, it has an option of asserting CE all the time or only during access periods20:07
whitequarkwpwrak: that's a perfect anti-competitor trick. of course, if you don't think of it being anti-customer too...20:08
wpwrakwhitequark: i guess some of the copycats would just copy the bugs as well ;-)20:15
whitequarkbug-compatible hardware: sounds great20:17
whitequarkat least you can keep existing workarounds20:17
whitequark(there was an old joke: if you learn from your mistakes, you don't do old errors. instead, you do absolutely new and unknown, and much more disastrous errors)20:19
whitequarkit's exactly the case.20:19
wpwrakyeah. much better to make plenty of old errors, so nobody notices the new ones ;-)20:20
whitequarkcongrats, you've just defined The First Rule Of Chinese Hardware Development20:21
kristianpaul0_o20:27
whitequarkkristianpaul: well, at least that applies to my device very well20:29
LunaVoraxThe news are full of questions20:34
LunaVoraxSony working on the PS4 for exemple20:35
LunaVoraxwhat the heck seriously ?20:35
LunaVoraxIsn't the PS3 powerfull enough ?20:35
LunaVoraxOh and Skype is becoming more and more closed.. as expected ;)20:35
whitequarkliterally20:36
wpwrakLunaVorax: (skype) the microsoft touch of death. like nokia.20:40
LunaVoraxwpwrak, haha20:45
kristianpaullol20:45
LunaVoraxToo bad, at least we still have jabber/xmpp20:45
LunaVoraxBut I was keeping the hope of seeing an open-source client for skype one day20:46
GNUtoosomeone must reverse engineer skype I guess20:46
GNUtoothat's ultra hard tough20:46
GNUtooeven harder than normal reverse engineering20:46
whitequarkand they'll sue you20:46
GNUtoowhy?20:46
whitequarkat least they will try20:47
GNUtoothere is DCMA exceptions for interoperability20:47
GNUtooand you could have layers too like SFLC20:47
whitequarkreverse engineering skype is against its license agreement, isn't it?20:47
GNUtoos/you/the person reversing it/20:47
GNUtooyes, no problem, don't accept the license agreement20:48
GNUtooor live in europe20:48
GNUtoobtw: http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/05/26/1933219/Chapel-Hill-Computational-Linguists-Crack-Skype-Calls20:48
GNUtooI'm not sure what it means tough20:48
whitequarkthey use rc4 afaik20:49
whitequarkI wonder how they could analyze a good block cipher to get these results...20:49
whitequark>They are measuring the payload size of IP packets and matching it to phonemes spoken.20:51
GNUtooyes but couldn't they go further20:52
GNUtooand do a kown plain text attack or something like that 20:52
whitequarkI think it's quite hard on recent ciphers. actually, extracting the key from client itself will be several orders of magnitude easier20:54
whitequarkI mean, the key, protocol details and all that stuff20:54
GNUtooI don't know how much is known20:56
GNUtoobut it's offuscated and encrypted(the binary)20:56
whitequark(known) close to nothing20:56
GNUtoook20:56
GNUtooouch20:56
whitequarkand the authors did quite a good job of hiding the details20:57
LunaVoraxOh21:00
LunaVoraxApple ARM MacBook in the work ?21:00
LunaVoraxIntersting21:00
GNUtooLunaVorax, not so sure21:04
GNUtooLunaVorax, look at idroid status21:04
GNUtoohttp://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/Status21:04
LunaVoraxGNUtoo, I took a look a while ago.21:04
LunaVoraxGNUtoo, hummm maybe I should give it a try on my iTouch 2G but I don't know what to except/do with it.21:05
LunaVoraxOh wait, it's not compatible yet with my device :/21:06
whitequarklarsc: on my board, NAND CS1 and CS2 are wired to CE1 and CE2 of flash chip, but I don't see any references to CS switching in the driver21:07
GNUtooexpect no suspend21:07
whitequarkhow do you think, can I connect whatever I want to CS2, assuming the default asserted is CS1?21:07
whitequarkoh wait, that's my driver.21:08
wpwrakroh: which sw tools did you use for the MM1 case ? qcad ?22:30
grunthusHi, I'm having a problem when powering on my Ben Nanonote:22:38
grunthusThe display doesn't usually activate. Discovered tonight that ping response is OK and I have ssh'd in.22:39
grunthusSo "the lights are off, but someone is home"22:39
grunthusAny experience with similar issues anyone?22:39
wpwrakgrunthus: what does "usually" mean ? does it sometimes activate ?22:41
wpwrakgrunthus: if the display always stays dark, this could be a problem with the cable connecting the LCD display to the bottom half of the device. let's hope this isn't the case :-)22:42
wpwrakgrunthus: also, how long did the device power on normally before starting to exhibit problems ?22:43
grunthuswpwrak: I got the device from new last week. Problems powering on since day 1.22:44
grunthusThe power on button never brings LCD up. Always have to do something with reset/remove battery etc.22:45
wpwrakgrunthus: hmm. but eventually, it does turn on ?22:45
grunthus(Usually means I can get the LCD to come on after some combination of reset/battery out)22:46
grunthuslet me just try a reboot via ssh22:46
wpwrakwhen you get the LCD to turn on, will it keep on working for a while ?22:47
grunthusyes, indeed, it will stay on until I turn the Ben off. 22:47
grunthusIn fact, I was going to ask how to get it to go into powersave mode, but this problem is more pressing.22:47
wpwrakinteresting. doesn't sound like the cable then. more like a problem initializing the LCM.22:48
grunthusNot responding to ping now after reboot, will try reset switch again22:48
wpwrakafaik, powersave/suspend isn't very well supported at the moment22:48
wpwrakif it doesn't respond, maybe just try pushing POWER for a bit22:49
wpwrak(1-2 seconds)22:49
wpwrakit can sometimes end up in some undead state where it doesn't properly reset, but the power button will bring it up22:50
grunthusNo response via power button. 22:51
grunthusAdditionally, it is no longer listed via lsusb22:52
wpwraklet's try this: remove the battery. disconnect USB. wait 20 seconds. then connect USB.22:53
grunthusOK, reset button causes device to show up in lsusb22:53
grunthusand ping response is back22:53
wpwrak(reset) good. so that works, too :)22:54
wpwrakbut no display ?22:54
grunthusnope22:54
grunthusyou mentioned LCM before?22:54
wpwrakyou should be able to cycle the ben as follows: press POWER, wait a few seconds, the press POWER and hold it for about 1 second.22:56
wpwraklet me give you more exact numbers ...22:56
grunthusOK22:56
wpwrakassuming it's on: press POWER. it should then turn off within 5 seconds. press and hold POWER until the screen comes on (should take ~3 seconds). the system will be fully up about 30 seconds after pressing and holding POWER.22:58
grunthusit is on just now, i'm ssh'd in. About to try your procedure above...here goes22:59
wpwrak/sbin/reboot -f   from SSH should also cycle it reliably22:59
wpwrakif it's a hardware problem, it could be that the LCD cable only gives contact intermittently. but then i would expect that the display also fails from time to time when it's up and running.23:00
wpwrakso the symptoms are a little strange.23:00
grunthusThe power has cycled. SSH/PING dropped on poweroff. Power on 3sec, ping and ssh'd back in.23:01
grunthusNo LCD23:01
grunthuswill try the /sbin/reboot -f cycle23:01
grunthusNo joy, SSH OK, no LCD.23:04
wpwrakthe problem may be stochastic in nature. i.e., the same procedure may sometimes work and sometimes not. to analyze this, we'd first have to find out what makes it more or less likely to happen23:04
wpwraki.e., try each method a few (~5) times before switching to the next23:05
grunthusOK, I'll do /sbin/reboot -f repeatedly23:05
grunthusThanks for helping23:05
wpwrakno problem :) too bad wolfgang isn't around. he knows all the little quirks best.23:06
wpwraki'd try the following three cycling processes:23:09
wpwrak1) the reboot -f you're doing now23:09
wpwrak2) the power button23:09
wpwrak3) remove the battery; unplug usb, wait 30 s; connect USB; wait until the system comes up; repeat (if the system doesn't come up within ~30 s, press POWER)23:10
wpwrakif none of these yields anything, then there may be a mechanical component. you could try gently shaking the ben, then repeating one of the three methods a few times. if it still doesn't work, shake the ben again, etc.23:11
grunthusOK. I have run number 1) 5 times. Same behaviour23:11
wpwrakif all this gets too boring, maybe just leave it completely powered down (no battery, no usb) for an hour or so, then connect USB23:12
grunthusSure, it might get boring. I notice that the ethernet over USB seems to die but ifconfig on desktop system can be used to reestablish connection straight away. Probably nothing related23:13
wpwrakif the problem has a mechanical component, it may be one of these two: 1) the connector into which the LCD cable slides is not properly locked. this could be repaired by opening the ben, properly placing the cable, then locking the connector. 2) the cable is broken (hairline crack or such). this isn't repairable.23:14
wpwrakboth kinds of problems have happened, although (luckily) not very often23:14
grunthusPower button certainly works. Ping stops very quickly on press.23:14
wpwrak(power button) there's nothing as reassuring as a power button that works well ;-)23:15
grunthusNo change with method 2)23:19
wpwraklet's hope for method 3 then23:19
grunthusNo change on 3 either.23:31
grunthussystem log shows usb device dis/connect appropriately23:32
grunthusIf I try reseating the LCD cable, will that invalidate warranty, opening case.23:34
wpwrakit shouldn't ... where did you get your ben from ? directly from sharism ?23:36
grunthusit's from tuxbrain23:37
wpwrakhmm, dunno what his policy is. maybe mail him ? in general, nobody should complain if you open the device. but i can't speak for tuxbrain :)23:38
grunthusWill do. Perhaps he will prefer me to send it back.23:38
wpwrakah, here's wolfgang. just in time :)23:40
wpwrakwolfspraul: you'll be happy - we have a support case. lcm acting up on a new device. only sometimes activates. most of the time doesn't.23:40
wpwrakwolfspraul: he already tried all the usual ways of power-cycling several times, to no avail. so it seems there's a mechanical component in the problem.23:41
grunthuswolfspraul: hi, I'm the case!!23:42
wpwrakwolfspraul: the device is from tuxbrain. should he (grunthus) try to open the ben and see if he can re-seat the cable ? or do you have any other things he could try ?23:42
grunthuswpwrak: do you mind if I mention you in email to David Samblas (tuxbrain)23:42
wpwrakgrunthus: sure. he knows my name well enough ;-)23:43
wolfspraulgrunthus: ah hi!23:46
grunthusThanks, I have asked if I can open it.23:46
grunthushi23:46
wolfspraulI was about to reply to you on the forum, but now you are here :-)23:46
wolfspraulon the forum you said it worked with the reset button?23:47
grunthusIt has done, but not today.23:47
wolfspraulis it an LCM problem or mechanical issue with the power button?23:47
wolfspraulwhen you press the power button, hold it for a good long 5 seconds or so, just in case23:47
wolfsprauldon't press too hard, just long23:47
grunthusThe power button seems to cycle the power properly, I can see log messages on my desktop system relating to usb device 23:48
wolfspraulbut the screen remains dark?23:48
grunthusand I can watch ping response23:48
grunthusdark, yes.23:48
grunthusOn the occaisions when reset press has activated the LCD it works reliably23:49
grunthusfor hours on end, lid open/shut, no problems.23:49
wolfspraulit may be an issue with the fpc (flexible printec circuit, a thin cable) running from the mainboard under the keys to the lcm23:49
wolfspraulit goes to the lcm on the right side, where it says 'mic'23:49
grunthuswpwrak thouhgt that23:50
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw (other topic), have you heard of Linaro ? http://www.linaro.org/23:50
wolfspraulwait grunthus first23:51
wolfspraulit's possible that the fpc doesn't sit tight in the connector anymore23:51
wpwrakwolfspraul: they're a sw house, but with ties to hw.23:51
wpwrak(sure)23:51
wolfspraulif it is not connected at boot time, it may miss some initialization of the lcm module23:51
grunthuswhat does FPC abbreviate?23:52
wolfspraula thin cable (flexible printed circuit)23:52
grunthusahh.23:52
wolfspraulI'm still thinking whether our analysis is correct23:52
wolfspraulbut yeah, I think so23:53
grunthusis there anything in /proc which would allow me to query the LCD in some way?23:53
wolfspraulgood question, probably only larsc would know23:53
wolfspraulfor the Ben, I'm sorry for the inconvenience but yeah, it looks like we need to replace it and give you a new one23:54
wpwrakwolfspraul: (analysis correct) i also suspect the cable23:54
wolfspraulsure I know linaro23:55
grunthusThanks for helping.23:55
wolfspraulit's an attempt of arm ltd. and the arm ecosystem to pump money (and engineering resources) into cleaning up ARM support in linux23:55
wolfspraulgrunthus: can you try to press with your finger where the 'mic' label is?23:56
wpwrak(replace) could grunthus perhaps try open the ben and reseat the cable ? in case it's just a case of the connector not being properly locked23:56
wolfspraulsure he can try, but because it's his first time he may end up with a device that has a few scratches23:56
wolfsprauleven if it then works23:56
wpwrakwolfspraul: (linaro) ah, not quite what we need then. i wonder if they may have contacts that could help us, though ?23:57
wolfspraulgrunthus: no worries we had such cases before (unfortunately), and if you contact tuxbrain it will be replaced without a fuss23:57
grunthuspressure around mic area - no response on LCD23:57
wolfspraulby now we had maybe 10 such cases23:57
grunthuswolfspraul: can I mention your name if I email David Samblas?23:58
wolfspraulfrom about 1200-1300 nanos sold23:58
wolfspraulof course you can, why not?23:58
wpwrak~1%. did you do a post-mortem on them to see if it's connector or cable ?23:58
grunthusless than 1% then.23:58
wolfspraul50% cable reseating helps, 50% the connector on the mainboard side has a soldering problem, i.e. resoldering it helps23:59
wolfspraulI don't remember that we've had an issue with the heat-printed connection under the lcm (on the other side of the cable)23:59
grunthusI think I saw an article (on BBC?) about VGA via SD slot which led me to the Nano, I bought one within an hour of reading the article.23:59
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