#qi-hardware IRC log for Saturday, 2011-05-21

fusingood morning qiots06:06
kristianpaulmorning fusin 06:09
kristianpaulhow do you get in to the "qiot" word btw? :-)06:10
fusinslowly, much to much to do ;)06:11
fusinmainly use gmu06:12
kristianpaulgmu is nice06:13
fusinyep, but to be honest, I think buying Ben was an error06:13
fusin(except of suporting the idea of course)06:13
kristianpaulyeah, why?06:14
fusinfor end users it is better to use android phones and tablets06:14
fusinor good old psion S5 :D06:14
kristianpaulfusin: it depends of end-user requirements06:15
fusini really miss a road-map, like pE the roadmap @ ReactOS06:15
fusinwell, what is the goal of ben?06:15
fusindevice that powers and size, i can only see as PIM-Device, and little 'GameBoy' tool06:16
kristianpauli like carry music on it06:17
fusinno one would realy use it to programm or to make 'serious' wordprocessing or?06:17
kristianpaulalso some comics ;-)06:17
fusinwell, indeed, gmu is my main appliance atm. And Sokoban :D06:17
kristianpaulah, thats good, i dont see the bad poing of buing the nanonote if you get fun that way06:18
wolfspraulfusin: it's rare that a Ben buyer comes here and says it was an error!06:18
wolfspraulalthough I would estimate at least 30% of our buyers will feel like that after a week maybe...06:18
kristianpaultakes notes is good, i cant imagine run a wordprocessing software even if the sytem could handle all the processing 06:18
wolfspraulnot that I am proud of selling to those guys, the lower that number the better06:18
kristianpauluntil they found JLime ;-))06:18
wpwrakwolfspraul: time to send the black ops ninjas ;-)06:19
wolfspraulif you compare with Android, or you think about 'end users', then of course I totally agree06:19
fusinperhaps i should try JLime, but I think the main goal is still full open-source, isn't it??06:19
wpwrakfusin: jlime is fully open source06:20
wolfspraulyes try jlime, maybe you can try booting from sd first06:20
fusinwolfspraul: why should i think other way? isn't ben not meant to be used by 'End-Users'?06:20
fusinif not, why making a nice case?06:20
fusinfor development a naked board, with all connectors accesible is more accurate..06:20
wolfspraulit is [end-users], but today it needs to be an end user that cares a lot about free software06:21
kristianpauli dont see comparison with android, remenbering this is a multipurpose OS06:21
kristianpaulremenber this little computer was a dictionary, now i can do more than that06:22
fusinkristianpaul:  i not realy compare with Android, But from an End-Users view, i must. Coz what does interest an End user? the device has to do something well. For now, the only real usefull is Music-Player. For that money, there are cheaper players Outside. Ben will never be able to compete there.06:23
fusinI think there is a need to position Ben somewhere. Even if it is a 'niche'06:24
kristianpaulfusin: oh, sure i agree with turnkey solutions, something the ben is not now in the software side06:24
fusini gues, making an good calculator, which run graphicaly could help06:27
fusinalso a gui for DGClock which fits with the Gui from Gmenu.06:29
fusinstuff like that :D06:29
kristianpaulyou really should try Jlime,06:30
kristianpaulfrom sd is nice, indeed06:30
wolfspraulfusin: I see you think in practial small steps (DGClock gui), that's good :-)06:31
wolfspraulpractical06:31
fusinI will try someday, altough I didn't like it on my HP Jornada 568 :P06:31
kyakfusin: you just haven't found your use for Ben (yet)06:31
wolfspraulone thing to keep in mind is that the current Android and iDevice mania is sucking up a lot of available software development time06:31
fusinkyak:  right, but i fully support the idea behind :-D06:32
wolfspraulmy feeling is there are maybe a few hundred free software devs left worldwide working on non-Android/non-iphone mobile software06:32
wolfspraul(I'm exaggerating, just to make my point)06:32
wolfspraulso there are many cute little clients one _could_ write for the Ben06:32
wolfspraulin sdl, in qt, in ncurses even06:32
wolfspraulwe have a bunch of interesting scripting languages06:32
kristianpaulandroid hit something that for mobile i *think* is important, having a SDK is esential06:33
kristianpaulUI unification.06:33
wolfspraulbut progress is very very slow because like I said for mobile devices with small screens, everybody and their grandmother are on Android or iPhone/iPad right now06:33
kristianpauletc..06:33
wolfsprauloh I'm not worried at all about this, I'm just describing how I see things06:33
fusinwolfspraul:  yep, I agree, and this brings up my second wish: where should a newbie start? there's no place with FAQ and or How To install and start develop for Ben.06:33
kristianpaulsure, i can imagine you dont :-)06:33
wolfsprauland why 'little' things like a dictionary app, an openstreetmap client, some music browsers and download clients for popular free music sites etc. are so slow coming together06:34
fusinMaybe a dedicated Forum, and a Site with background info for the newbies?06:34
wolfspraulthe only thing I can do is to focus my extremely limited resources on the kernel, the build system, even u-boot06:35
wolfsprauland endure the laughs about application failure compared to Android or iAnything06:35
fusinkristianpaul: right: UI unification is important. Why have SDL/QT etc. Use one of them, but then everywhere.06:35
wolfsprauleventually (tm) we have the right mix and it will take off...06:35
fusinin my eyes (it's not meant as flame) the port of 'sc' to Ben was only usefull for the programmer. It's only a proof that it can be done. No one really will ever use sc on ben, isn't it?06:38
fusindid even somebody use sc on linux??? ;)06:39
kristianpauli did once06:40
fusinyeah, me too, on an old 386 in the beginning06:40
kristianpaulbut dint find dec to binaty convertion06:40
kristianpaulbinary*06:40
fusinonce I had X11 running, i never used it seriously :D06:40
kristianpaulphew 20°C is getting "cold" here06:42
fusinmaybe sounds crazy, but I compare Ben with good old C64. Alas I miss Basic :D06:42
kyakxMff: may i ask you to have a look at https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9442, there is a patch that enables cxx bindings and makes installation of ncurses headers more correct07:52
kyak_cim5writing it from centerim5/libpurple running on Ben :)07:55
Action: Fusin never runs on Ben, I'm to heavy weight for that lill' case :D08:14
jirkabfusin: I really use sc on Ben. And quite often (for trancking my expenses, for example)09:21
dvdkmorning qiots :p10:49
wolfspraulmorning :-)10:53
Fusinqiots is copylefted :P11:16
wpwrakwolfspraul: btw, do you know if getting slashdotted increased ben/ubb sales at tuxbrain ?12:12
wpwrakif not, i'll ask victor. he seems to be in a communicative mood ;-)12:20
wolfspraulwpwrak: for sure that will increase ben sales at tuxbrain12:23
wolfspraulI had 10-15 I think, so from past data I'd say Tuxbrain maybe similar12:23
wpwrakah, getting closer to cracking the next 100 then :)12:24
wpwrakthe estimation time frame is about 1 week ? or is the sales tail longer ?12:29
wpwraks/time frame/interval/ # better :)12:29
Fusincoffe time...12:29
Fusins/coffe/coffee12:30
wolfspraulone week sounds about right, yes12:43
vladkorotnevhello everyone13:02
kristianpaulhi v13:17
kristianpaulvladkorotnev*13:18
kristianpaulYour nanonote finally arrive?13:18
vladkorotnevkristianpaul: hi13:18
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: hi13:18
vladkorotnevI am going to reboot once more, see ya soon :P13:19
vladkorotnevI'm here :P13:23
wpwrakxiangfu: hmm, didn't you make an avrdude package once ? i found this one: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/packages/NanoNote/Ben/latest/avrdude_5.8-1_xburst.ipk13:34
wpwrakxiangfu: but that's an old version, without all the ben-specific changes13:34
xiangfuwpwrak: the 'latest' packages is release with last release 2011-02-23.13:35
xiangfuwpwrak: the avrdude with ben-specific will release in next packages.13:36
xiangfuthere is one in my temp folder: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/packages/avrdude_5.10-2_xburst.ipk13:36
wpwrakah, i see. thanks ! lemme check it ...13:36
wolfspraulvladkorotnev: did you get your NanoNote yet?13:37
vladkorotnevwolfspraul: not yet :(13:38
wolfspraulok, no surprise, that shipping method is a bit slow - be patient13:38
wpwrakwolfspraul: turtle express parcels ? ;-)13:40
vladkorotnevwpwrak: It's on Russian customs. So the speed will always be the same :P13:41
wpwrakvladkorotnev: oh, customs ... :(13:41
wpwrakthe scourge of the globalized consumer13:43
kristianpaulERROR:Map:258 - A problem was encountered attempting to get the license for this architecture. arghh!13:45
wpwrakxiangfu: works ! :)13:54
qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: avrdude: remove BROKEN http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/bfff7c114:00
xiangfuwpwrak: just check if buildhost create the avrdude package. I found I forget remove the BROKEN.14:01
Fusinoh17:10
vladkorotnevhello everyone :P 17:41
lunavorax_miniI'm getting very non-confident about all of this smartphones and tablet sutffs20:31
lunavorax_miniWhat bothers me is Android and closed Firmware stuff20:32
GNUtoolunavorax_mini, what do you mean by firmware? Android or the firmwares it contains like its wifi card firmware20:35
lunavorax_miniSorry yes I got all mixed up.20:36
lunavorax_miniI mean that when I see a smartphone, I see a computer. And what I also see is that I can't load the OS I want in it but Android and often the outdated version the manufacturer built for it.20:37
GNUtoolunavorax_mini, are you aware of replicant?20:46
lunavorax_miniGNUtoo, no20:47
GNUtooit's a 100% free android, altough:20:47
GNUtoo*wifi and bluetooth depend on non-free firmware that are not redistributable20:47
GNUtoo*the supported phones are unfortunately possibly spied by the modem20:48
lunavorax_miniGNUtoo, http://replicant.us/ I suppose ?20:48
GNUtooso we'll move to other phones I think20:48
GNUtooyes20:48
lunavorax_miniInteresting, thanks for the link GNUtoo 20:49
lunavorax_miniI made a talking about it at college20:49
GNUtoook, abuot smartphones freedom issues?20:49
lunavorax_miniI came to the conclusion that smartphones where "locked ready-to-throw-away computers" which is really sad20:50
GNUtoonot all phones are locked20:50
GNUtoofor instance:20:50
lunavorax_miniNot all phones of course but a lot of them are.20:50
GNUtoo*ADP1,nexus one, nexus S, palm pre, nokia N900 etc....20:50
GNUtooa lot are unlocked in fact, not the majority of them tough20:51
Action: Fusin just finished installing LMDE on my tiny eeePC 90121:16
Fusin*sh*t* wrong channel :)21:17
lunavorax_miniHum ok GNUtoo 21:17
Fusinhrhr21:18
lunavorax_miniAnyway, I don't have a smartphone... Not even a cellphone in fact :P21:18
GNUtoolunavorax_mini, that's better21:18
GNUtoolunavorax_mini, smartphones are spying devices21:18
GNUtooeven if you have a 100% free distro on it21:18
lunavorax_miniI do believe so21:19
lunavorax_miniThey sure are attractive but everytime I always got to the conclusion "I'll have to switch to buy a faster one day to to use the latest apps"21:20
lunavorax_miniAnd then I dust off my old iTouch 2G and see all the "cool" apps in store...21:21
lunavorax_miniAnd, oh well, just shut it off again for the next 6months :)21:21
Fusinsell it before you earn no more money for it :P21:22
Fusinbuy an additional ben from the earned money :D21:22
lunavorax_miniFusin, at the beginning I bought it to develop on it... one day... maybe...21:23
Fusindevelop for apple hardware??21:23
Fusinonly usefull if hardware is not newer than AppleII :D21:23
lunavorax_miniSo far that was the best touchscreen device on the market imho. Maybe Android devices does good or better now.21:24
lunavorax_miniYeah I should buy an Apple II on day also to see why people say it's so awesome.21:24
GNUtoolunavorax_mini, better buying a non phone device21:26
FusinI buyed an Apple II gs lately, and I love it21:27
GNUtoobut apple devices are spying too21:27
lunavorax_miniGNUtoo, That's what I was going to precise21:27
lunavorax_miniGNUtoo, also yeah21:27
lunavorax_miniFusin, gotta find a good emulator first to try it then I'll buy one maybe.21:28
lunavorax_miniFusin, for now I'm focused on receiving my first C64 from UK.21:28
GNUtoomaybe the pandora would be great if you remove the 3d and make your own image and don't use pnds21:28
lunavorax_minipnds ?21:29
GNUtoopandora packagews21:29
GNUtoo*packages21:29
GNUtoousually they come without source21:29
GNUtooor with a link to the source21:29
lunavorax_miniWhatever, I try to avoid using vapor-hardware... whoops, what did I said ? ;)21:29
GNUtooit's real but hard to get21:30
GNUtooI saw real people with real pandoras21:30
GNUtoobut it was just an examples21:30
lunavorax_miniThat's what I meant indeed.21:30
GNUtoothere is the nanote too21:30
GNUtoobut you have wpan and no wifi21:30
lunavorax_miniI have my Ben for now it's cool.21:30
lunavorax_miniI'll make some stuff this summer if I don't get lazy.21:30
GNUtooaltough with people like werner, you have it pushed to its limits21:30
GNUtoo*wpan21:31
GNUtoo*vga adapter21:31
GNUtooetc....21:31
GNUtooit just lacks wifi21:31
lunavorax_miniYeah, I'll never be gratefull enough about what Werner have done so far.21:31
lunavorax_miniIt's ok, I don't miss wifi.21:31
lunavorax_miniUSB-Ethernet is ok, and mini-sd card slot for storage is too.21:32
lunavorax_miniBed time !21:32
lunavorax_miniSee ya :)21:32
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